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	<title>Comments on: Torture Icky, Let&#8217;s Not Talk About It</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/</link>
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		<title>By: Hmmm</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1777282</link>
		<dc:creator>Hmmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1777282</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;More like, those are the only readers they still have left.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More like, those are the only readers they still have left.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1777052</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1777052</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So, how is that “alarm system” and “locks” going to do anything when the people breaking in with impunity, and using taxpayer $$$$$ for state of the art equipment (and hotel massages after torture flights) ARE THE POLICE?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, how is that “alarm system” and “locks” going to do anything when the people breaking in with impunity, and using taxpayer $$$$$ for state of the art equipment (and hotel massages after torture flights) ARE THE POLICE?</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1777049</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1777049</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh, well, THAT is something else entirely.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Prison (shudder) should nevah be mentioned in the same paragraph as any of our ‘betters’ … they are, intrinsically, above such crass, lower-class realities.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Why else should one seek wealth and power?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hardly worth it, if one is to be treated like common, ordinary riff-raff (sniff!).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, well, THAT is something else entirely.</p>
<p>Prison (shudder) should nevah be mentioned in the same paragraph as any of our ‘betters’ … they are, intrinsically, above such crass, lower-class realities.</p>
<p>Why else should one seek wealth and power?</p>
<p>Hardly worth it, if one is to be treated like common, ordinary riff-raff (sniff!).</p>
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		<title>By: Palli</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1777037</link>
		<dc:creator>Palli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1777037</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;P&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;unishment is not the only way to prevent wrongdoing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt; Tell me again why we have so many people in prisons?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P</p>
<blockquote><p>unishment is not the only way to prevent wrongdoing.</p></blockquote>
<p> Tell me again why we have so many people in prisons?</p>
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		<title>By: brendanx</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1776998</link>
		<dc:creator>brendanx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1776998</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The Washington Post opinion pages are increasingly creepy and decadent.  Aside from the columns, the letters are also more and more right wing:  somehow, the crushing of Republicans in metro-DC, and Obama’s enormous popularity, we’re to believe that readers have moved to the right?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Washington Post opinion pages are increasingly creepy and decadent.  Aside from the columns, the letters are also more and more right wing:  somehow, the crushing of Republicans in metro-DC, and Obama’s enormous popularity, we’re to believe that readers have moved to the right?</p>
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		<title>By: Winski</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1776977</link>
		<dc:creator>Winski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1776977</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It must be that Ruth Marcus has been either 1) Been living on a different planet than the rest of us (world population) for the last few years, OR 2) she really works for Rupert Murdoch who is trying like crazy to re-write his propaganda machine’s complicity in the ‘bush years”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The column Marcus put forth in the WaPo today is beyond what most folks in the REAL world would consider a call to GroupThink…EVERYONE with more than 14 brain cells working should read her stuff…makes you wonder what new flavor the KoolAide is today…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It must be that Ruth Marcus has been either 1) Been living on a different planet than the rest of us (world population) for the last few years, OR 2) she really works for Rupert Murdoch who is trying like crazy to re-write his propaganda machine’s complicity in the ‘bush years”.</p>
<p>The column Marcus put forth in the WaPo today is beyond what most folks in the REAL world would consider a call to GroupThink…EVERYONE with more than 14 brain cells working should read her stuff…makes you wonder what new flavor the KoolAide is today…</p>
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		<title>By: delusionist</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1776975</link>
		<dc:creator>delusionist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1776975</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here’s my response to Ruthie: Hey Ruthie, why is Bernie Madoff under house arrest in his million dollar apartment and the guy who robbed the corner store is getting it up the a** at Rikers Island? For the same reason Bernie kept two sets of books: one for the rubes and another for the elites. Same with our Constitution. Two sets of laws, one for the poor and one for the likes of you and your friends.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I hope you and your children get to experience the “other” Constitution some time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You are an effete, morally bankrupt hack.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here’s my response to Ruthie: Hey Ruthie, why is Bernie Madoff under house arrest in his million dollar apartment and the guy who robbed the corner store is getting it up the a** at Rikers Island? For the same reason Bernie kept two sets of books: one for the rubes and another for the elites. Same with our Constitution. Two sets of laws, one for the poor and one for the likes of you and your friends.</p>
<p>I hope you and your children get to experience the “other” Constitution some time.</p>
<p>You are an effete, morally bankrupt hack.</p>
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		<title>By: radiofreewill</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1776971</link>
		<dc:creator>radiofreewill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1776971</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;foothillsmike - In Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness,” Kurtz is “the Company’s” most productive Ivory-harvester, deep down in the Congo of Africa.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the beginning, Kurtz had no concerns for the indigenous people who got in his way. In fact, he wrote in the margins of his Business Plan “exterminate the Brutes,” as if that was his guidance from the Principals of the Company regarding ‘local opposition’ to the production of Ivory.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, Kurtz sets-up his operation and starts working further and further down the Congo in the quest for more Ivory. As he crosses from one tribal area into the next, he meets opposition and starts killing the resistors with his loyalists, thinking his loyalists are ‘with him’ on the side of ‘right.’&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In order to incent his loyalists to aggressively clear his path, he offers up to them a bounty opportunity: for each left ear of an ‘opponent,’ Kurtz will give them a monetary reward.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, while the vanquished tribes were collecting together to organize a unified resistance of the invader, Kurtz was doing a booming business in paying out the bounties - his loyalists were steadily turning-in ears. The combination of it all apparently had Kurtz thinking that his plan was working - they were ‘winning.’&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the climax of the short novella, the narrator of the story - a man sent to ‘find out what Kurtz’ secret is for such great production’ - finally arrives at Kurtz’ remote outpost on the Congo. The narrator’s paddle-wheeler had to fight through an attack by the resistance, which was organized and right on top of Kurtz’ outpost.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The narrator leaves the boat and goes in search of Kurtz. It’s chaotic in the area, and when the narrator eventually locates Kurtz - the ‘great man’ was layed out, dying, and mumbling, ‘the horror, the horror.’&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It turns out that Kurtz - who thought the success of his ‘Ear Bounty’ meant his opposition was crumbling - was instead surprise attacked and wounded by the unified tribes. When he goes to rally his loyalists, he’s shocked to see that the children of village are all missing their left ears, and collapses into the profound despair of a wild-eyed Martyr who had discovered he was really a Monster.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bush’s bounty seems to have turned out the same - they turned-in their own for money - and Bush thought he was winning.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>foothillsmike &#8211; In Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness,” Kurtz is “the Company’s” most productive Ivory-harvester, deep down in the Congo of Africa.</p>
<p>In the beginning, Kurtz had no concerns for the indigenous people who got in his way. In fact, he wrote in the margins of his Business Plan “exterminate the Brutes,” as if that was his guidance from the Principals of the Company regarding ‘local opposition’ to the production of Ivory.</p>
<p>So, Kurtz sets-up his operation and starts working further and further down the Congo in the quest for more Ivory. As he crosses from one tribal area into the next, he meets opposition and starts killing the resistors with his loyalists, thinking his loyalists are ‘with him’ on the side of ‘right.’</p>
<p>In order to incent his loyalists to aggressively clear his path, he offers up to them a bounty opportunity: for each left ear of an ‘opponent,’ Kurtz will give them a monetary reward.</p>
<p>So, while the vanquished tribes were collecting together to organize a unified resistance of the invader, Kurtz was doing a booming business in paying out the bounties &#8211; his loyalists were steadily turning-in ears. The combination of it all apparently had Kurtz thinking that his plan was working &#8211; they were ‘winning.’</p>
<p>In the climax of the short novella, the narrator of the story &#8211; a man sent to ‘find out what Kurtz’ secret is for such great production’ &#8211; finally arrives at Kurtz’ remote outpost on the Congo. The narrator’s paddle-wheeler had to fight through an attack by the resistance, which was organized and right on top of Kurtz’ outpost.</p>
<p>The narrator leaves the boat and goes in search of Kurtz. It’s chaotic in the area, and when the narrator eventually locates Kurtz &#8211; the ‘great man’ was layed out, dying, and mumbling, ‘the horror, the horror.’</p>
<p>It turns out that Kurtz &#8211; who thought the success of his ‘Ear Bounty’ meant his opposition was crumbling &#8211; was instead surprise attacked and wounded by the unified tribes. When he goes to rally his loyalists, he’s shocked to see that the children of village are all missing their left ears, and collapses into the profound despair of a wild-eyed Martyr who had discovered he was really a Monster.</p>
<p>Bush’s bounty seems to have turned out the same &#8211; they turned-in their own for money &#8211; and Bush thought he was winning.</p>
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		<title>By: Prairie Sunshine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1776966</link>
		<dc:creator>Prairie Sunshine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1776966</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;way epu-ed I’m sure, but &lt;a href=&quot;mailto:Hugh@44&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hugh@44&lt;/a&gt; nails it:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The reason why the Establishment doesn’t want prosecutions for torture is because it doesn’t want to defend its own silence and complicity in it.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Too often when I look at the denizens of DeeCee I see one of those period Regency films with the fops and their perfumed hankies pressed against the stench of their own filth.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Cowards.  And complicit.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>way epu-ed I’m sure, but <a href="mailto:Hugh@44" rel="nofollow">Hugh@44</a> nails it:</p>
<blockquote><p>The reason why the Establishment doesn’t want prosecutions for torture is because it doesn’t want to defend its own silence and complicity in it.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Too often when I look at the denizens of DeeCee I see one of those period Regency films with the fops and their perfumed hankies pressed against the stench of their own filth.</p>
<p>Cowards.  And complicit.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1776964</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/31/torture-icky-lets-not-talk-about-it/#comment-1776964</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;All of these major media outlets have one or two reporters who do good work.  I think they keep them around for laughs and to point to when people like us criticize them.  The internet is already the default place to find real news.  The MSM has become nothing but large corporations dedicated to bread and circuses, to propaganda and infotainment.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of these major media outlets have one or two reporters who do good work.  I think they keep them around for laughs and to point to when people like us criticize them.  The internet is already the default place to find real news.  The MSM has become nothing but large corporations dedicated to bread and circuses, to propaganda and infotainment.</p>
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