Mornin’ twolf
I’m down on the Dow story

What Israel is doing is a complete over-reaction and is completely reprehensible. I sure hope my tax dollars quit funding the Israeli military.

Candi, Bush, and Cheney are all delusional. Wasn’t it a Cheney aide who once said that they “create their own reality.” It was said pridefully. These people are insane.

The Dow story is bad, but the real issue for them is does it affect the Rohn and Haas purchase. Purchasing RHO was a major part of their growth going forward, and if they can’t close we should start getting very worried. Their are only 30 companies that are members of the DJIA, if they start having to make sweeping changes then this is even worse than folks are saying.

Can Bush just leave now?

A delusional Condi still believes people will “start to thank this president for what he’s done.”

Come Jan. 22, she’s Stanford’s problem.
Good riddance.

Do you really think Stanford even wants her at this point? Maybe if she comes out of the closet (if the rumors are true) it will help her enough to make people forget some of her damage to the world.

And speaking of Condi, the “birth pangs of a new Middle East”
are still panging.

To SHP at 5 : I’m sure that there are many at Stanford who revile her,
but, just as there is a Village in DC, there is a Village in Palo Alto.

It’s about time some heavy karma started to land on Dow. The damage to human beings they’ve done I don’t think can be calculated. Bhopal and Agent Orange are only 2 examples.

Very bad. I personally believe the R&H acquisition was done only because of the cash that the K-Dow deal provided; Dow had to move the $$ off the books or risk being taken over by the bastards that tried to pull it off more than a year ago from within (and believe me, nobody would want those particular bastards to have that kind of power).

The CEO of Dow is an Obama supporter, although as a foreign national he couldn’t vote for him. I’ve heard from insiders that last spring the CEO encouraged the firm’s executives to make donations to Dems because he was certain a Dem would be in the in White House. This is a far cry from the decades of staunch Republicanism within that firm, and frankly revealed a dramatic turnabout of the company’s ideology. The K-Dow failure puts this CEO at great risk now, as is this company’s sea change.

That OSHA article is crazy-making but we’ve seen small slices of that particular pie in the news over a number of years now.

A new bridge is being built over the ICW to a local island and recently there was a very bad accident with one death and several injuries. One guess as to the agency investigating the accident………

I’m gonna have some serious misgivings whenever crossing it after completion. :-(

Heh. The Russian guy doesn’t really know much about the US if he thinks that Kentucky, Tennessee and at least South Carolina would go with his anticipated “Atlantic America” and not be part of the “Texas Republic” with the rest of the Old South.

Is Barnacle another of these All Hat and No Cattle guys? Has anybody ever seen him on a horse or is as frightened of them as Shrub?

Rice: People will soon thank Bush for what he’s done.

People will soon thank God Bush is gone.

I think Sarah Palin will be excited to learn that her house will be in the same country as Putin’s…

Your comment linking Dow to Bhopal is grossly inaccurate.

I am a former Dow employee; I will tell you that the Dow employees who worked on the post-acquisition of the former Union Carbide Corp. — the firm actually responsible for Bhopal — were horrified by the conditions that they found at UCC. UCC was operating as if it were still 1950’s, with horribly lax safety standards, all of which had to be rectified at great expense and with fear by the Dow folks. The acquisition was not widely supported by the employees because there was such a big gap in corporate culture between the firms and the truth on the ground was grim.

And unfortunately, every Tom/Dick/Harry outside the chemical industry blames the Dow folks for what happened at Bhopal in the 1980’s. Dow people had enough of their own legacy problems with dioxin, from Agent Orange to water pollution, without having to be saddled with the stupidity and gross negligence of UCC.

I had a professor in an engineering class break down in tears during a lecture at school about his work while at Dow as a researcher. He invented products used in Vietnam, and the work that he did haunted him 20 years later. The entire corporate community is scarred by what you call “karma” hanging over them, even though the average Dow employee was a baby during Vietnam. It’s why the firm is one of the few that have published Sustainability Goals — including self-measurement against Kyoto goals.

wrt the coal ash disaster in TN and with no particular linky in mind:

Last I heard TVA is *still* claiming there is no danger from the spill and cnn uses the terms *muck* and *sludge* with basically no reference to the deadly chemicals contained therein. TVA and EPA are testing said muck/sludge…….I hope to dog that there are environmental groups doing their own testing!

Anybody in TN living in that area and downstream who believes the crap that TVA is putting out has. not. been. paying. attention.

Well, since he thinks going on canned hunts and shooting tame birds that have been crippled makes him a great sportsman, you can probably extrapolate from that.

Cheney doesn’t know why people don’t like him? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I think Cheney knows exactly why people don’t like him, he just doesn’t care.

LOL.

chillin video twolf

“People hate me? So? They can go fuck themselves.”

One of the very best aspects about living at the Lake…….there are always people around with first-hand experience on almost any topic to expand the knowledge base. Thank you, Rayne!

Dow has repeatedly refused to clean up the mess left by Union Carbide, saying it wasn’t their responsibility to do so. That was a balance sheet decision.

Almost 4 years in the Mekong Delta showed me what Agent Orange did to the Vietnamese and their land. 16 years working at VA showed me what it did to VN vets. I still have the scars from Agent Orange exposure and has been linked to my total tooth loss.

Their turn around does not mitigate their responsibility as far as I’m concerned.

I’ve seen Cheney on a horse, SD, and so have you–he’s the south end of every northbound horse.

The National Archives publishes a treasure trove of Kissinger phone conversations.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/N…../index.htm

Two that I found interesting were:

Document #14..August 13/74..Kissinger makes it plain he will not support George Bush (for VP) partly because of his lack of experience.

Document #16..Dec. 23/74..Seymour Hersh’s Revelations of spying on Americans. This conversation was between Kissinger and Rumsfeld. Most of it has been excised. Attempts are still being made to get this information released. Seems the US government was spying on its citizens long before 911.

my criticism of dow is based on their unwillingness to take any responsibility for the damage that was done, especially environmental damage. do i have that wrong?

wikipedia:

Acquisition of Union Carbide by Dow Chemical Company

The Dow Chemical Company purchased Union Carbide in 2001 for $10.3 billion in stock and debt. Dow has publicly stated several times that the Union Carbide settlement payments have already fulfilled Dow’s financial responsibility for the disaster.

Some Dow stockholders filed suits to stop the acquisition, noting the outstanding liabilities for the Bhopal disaster.[46] The acquisition has gained criticism from the International Campaign for Justice in Bhopal, as it is apparently “contrary to established merger law” in that “Dow denies any responsibility for Carbide’s Bhopal liabilities”. According to the Bhopal Medical Appeal, Carbide “remains liable for the environmental devastation” as environmental damage was not included in the 1989 settlement, despite ongoing contamination issues.[46]

All these companies have been able to avoid overseas responsibilities because U.S. courts will not allow the injured to bring suit here, and the tort law in these third world countries provides no protection. It is truly sad.

That said, the U.S. military has screwed vets for years on all topics, and lets hope Obama follows through and changes this.

I think cheney cares, not because he wants to be liked, but he would like to be feared not scorned and ridiculed.

That is exactly right, in the U.S. Dow would completely ASSUME the responsibilities of Union Carbide. The problem is, all these companies have their foreign subs set up as separate, wholely owned companies, thus the foreign subs are not subject to U.S. law.

Ya, I could see him being a good slave to Lynne…

Ugh. I just pictured her with whip and chains, dressed in leather.

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.

Namaste

I always suspected that Agent Orange had something to do with the loss of teeth that both my hubby and my bro-in-law suffer from. Thanks for confirming that.

Dow = Monsanto.. The pursuit of control of the world’s seed supply.

http://www.opednews.com/articl…..15-45.html

Morning kids — fresh post up for the reading if you want one…

Drive by. There’s been no substantial clinical link between AO and tooth loss but it is widely accepted as an effect. VA and Dow’s repeated denials over the years that AO caused this or that condition has hampered any real investigation into its effects. We know it causes various lymphomas but the long term effects are still being looked into.

One of the guys who fronted the fight with VA and Dow once said, “They killed me in Viet Nam and I didn’t know it.”

Pretend for a second that you are a Dow employee.

You can be fired for smoking in the company car because the firm is very much anti-smoking.

You can be fired on the spot for failing to park in your assigned space in a prescribed manner that allows for optimum exit in the case of an emergency — whether related to weather or chemical leak.

You can be fired for not using a ladder properly.

You can be fired for not attending monthly safety meetings.

You can be fired for doing anything that causes a loss of any kind, from a minor injury to a waste of product.

People who receive substantial rewards and bonuses are frequently contributors to the company’s WRAP program (Waste Reduction Always Pays), in which any form of product leakage or energy loss is reduced.

If you actually work in a plant, depending on the product, you must submit to health screenings each month at risk of termination.

The entire corporation, top to bottom, has hammered for decades on safety; it’s one of the measurables in their published Sustainability Goals.

And then, years after the Indian government and Union Carbide came to their own agreement about discharge of claims, Dow and its employees are supposed to take on the burden of those fuck-ups at Union Carbide, in perpetuity?

No. Hell no. Union Carbide should have been taken down and sold off to pay the claims of Bhopal back in the 1980’s; the company never should have survived to be acquired nearly 15 years later. The executives of UCC should have been prosecuted and put in jail. The directors and executives of Dow who led the UCC acquisition should have been terminated for ever agreeing to purchase a company with such substandard and shoddy operating processes.

i don’t think dow is responsible for what monsanto does.

Well, Dow and Monsanto are completely different companies, and Monsanto tried to spin their chemical division years ago (it failed, it went bankrupt, they fucked it all up, but…)so they have comepletely different exposures.

As for seed, blame Monsanto – almost noone is a player in that area but them.

i disagree – when dow bought union carbide, they got the assest. imo, they should also take responsibility for the liabilities. if they didn’t want the liabilities, they shouldn’t have bought union carbide.

Well, all you say is true. The point is, if Bhopal had occurred in the United States under U.S. law, it is very likely true that Dow WOULD have to take on all environmental and proven personal damage to Bhopal IN PERPETUITY!

Talkto GE about there very legal discharge of PCBs they now are paying billions to clean up…and every super fund site…etc.

But in the U.S., UCC would not have survived if a Bhopal-like accident had occurred — and we wouldn’t be talking about blaming Dow for UCC’s massive fuck-up.

GE’s a different kettle of fish; why do you think they bought NBC anyhow? Nothing like having your own mouthpiece.

Dow’s current iteration, on the other hand, has been forced to live for decades with fallout from the U.S.-government dictates; who do you really think ordered Agent Orange? Maybe Dow should have bought a media arm…

Dow = Monsanto = world control of seeds and starvation for those who cannot pay

http://www.opednews.com/articl…..15-45.html

War Legacies Project has information on the lawsuit dismissed in New York in 2005. The judge ruled that the use of Agent Orange was not a war crime and that there wasn’t proof that Agent Orange caused their illnesses. War Legacies, in the sidebar, has information for assistance to US veterans.

http://www.warlegacies.org/lawsuitnews.htm

Judges ruling:
http://www.ffrd.org/AO/AP10march05.htm

LOL! Dow made it bed, it has to sleep in it. They can cry all they want but they had very good legal counsel when they stepped into this, and the best media folks too.

As for GE, that media arm has lost money and has NOT protected them from billions in lawsuits, even environmental lawsuits. I explain it to clients this way – in many states it is legal to turn right on red, if the country passed a law and gave you a $50 ticket for when you had legally turned right on red you would be pretty pissed. Well, that is the environmental law in the U.S. – it matters not whether you did it legally at the time, you are still responsible for all the damage.

It can get even worse – if you turn one shovel of soil on a site you own, and someone had a dry cleaning business there or it was a factory you are as liable for all the environmental damage they did as they are. You can even have to clean it all up if you have money and they don’t. Its the law. Lets not act like environmental laws are weak in this country, they are not and they have a special place in the law.

Don’t cry for Dow, they knew or should have known exactly what they were getting into.

This is what nightmares are made of.

Monsanto, Dow to develop resistant seeds

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20774376/

Well, medical people have definitely est. that Agent Orange has caused both illness and death. Has that 2005 decision been revisited?

I have tried to read this article, it is a mish mash of true and untrue statements and seems to tie a whole bunch of stuff that really does not make sense to me in the way it is argued.

For example, the use of genetically modified seed has stopped the spraying of very noxious chemicals to kill rootworms. GMO seed also requires the spraying of glyphosate (RoundUp) as the herbicide which is very environmentally friendly (it degrades quickly) as compared to others which run through our waterways and never truly degrade (or at least take much longer). How the heck that ties to the rest of the article, is well, beyond my limited capabilities.

Monsanto, Dow, and DuPont all work togather at times, but also all sue each at times. Monsanto dominates the GMO field due to its control of RoundUp Ready plants.

As for farmers – they are not dumb. Farmers make more on GMO crops, and they are more environmentally friendly, than others. Farmers are good business people.

You mean really good media people like General Motors has had? The kind of people who’ve been able to cut through 20+ years of bad-mouthing American-made cars to explain to the public that their cars are competitive with foreign-made vehicles while continuing to maintain American manufacturing sites?

Yeah. I can see you don’t have a clue what it’s like to work for a Fortune 100 company’s corporate offices.

No, this is what nightmares are made of:

“For Operation Ranch Hand corporations like Dow Chemical Company and Monsanto were given the task of developing the following herbicides…”

“were given” — what a nice euphemism for “You are ordered to make this and we disavow all knowledge and responsibility for this order or the product.”

Southern: Are you still around? Lots like the work week may have begun; have a good one.

For the torturers, denial is not a river in Eqypt.

For Sarah-Head’s Up Girlfriend –

>Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces — with Alaska reverting to Russian control.

For Condi – Career Suggestion Post Bush & Pre Trial

….she could open a think tank. It could be named the “Center Heading Research in Support of Torturing Toddler’s Testicles” aka CHRISTTT, which will of course be more informally referred to as the CHRIST CENTER for purposes of public consumption.

Enjoy.