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Israel calls up reservists signaling a longer war. Meanwhile, in a very related event, a car bomb has killed 37 in Pakistan. The Taliban of Pakistan has claimed responsibility. What is the connection? How far extremists use terrorism to destabilize and radicalized a conflict, and then exploit the results.
As terrorist attacks go the Mumbai attacks were not the worst in people killed, there have been others worse. However it is the brutality which is notable: victims were forced to strip, and their genitals mutilated. Even doctors used to attacks were shocked at the gratuitousness of the violation.
As a result of the attacks, India’s ruling party needed to "get tough" and made unreasonable demands and threats over the atttacks, which everyone knew sourced from groups in Pakistan such as the LeT that are only nominally answerable to the government. Pakistan’s government redeployed troops to the border with India to show its population that it was doing its job. And the militants then began using the security void to slaughter their opponents in Pakistan and erode the state.
The same thing has happened in Gaza. There are elements in Gaza that knew that Hamas’ power structure would bear the brunt of attacks on Israel. They violated the cease fire, and are now watching Israel do the work of radicalizing the Gaza political structure even more than it was, and know that they can do so again and again. Each cycle drawing a state that has an internal political need to use force, and another which has an internal political need to resist, and creating the opening for the darkest forces that play in the body politic to profit from it.
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Hell of a time to become president of the USA eh?
Anyone remember how people were saying just a few weeks ago how Clinton was a great choice for Secretary of State because she could make a big push for a peace settlement?
Anyone remember how Gates warned just a few days ago not to try to test Obama and a new Administration? Anyone guess that the first test would come from the Israelis?
History is tragedy written as farce.
Expect a big check for the Israelis just as soon as the Senate reconvenes.
Maybe we can throw in some more cluster bombs.
Expect international terrorist organizations to be organizing in Gaza as soon as the smoke clears. If not sooner.
Isrealis have more influence in American politics than do Americans through their lobbies like AIPAC, Project for a New American Century and the long lionk between MOSAD, CIA and DOD. The MIC is anti Muslim. It has taken many decades, now few US politicians will suceed without that funding source…the corporate oligarchy. Now it is bleeding our treasury and thise throughout the “Free World”.
I never thought I would see a day when Isreal would control American foreign policy….but here we are.
They won’t need to come to Gaza. They have the internet. This will, however, be a great recruitment tool for them.
This is another phase of the George Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld “Bring it on” foreign policy…confrontation followed by destruction.
Israel cannot stop the bombings, shellings, rocket attacks, etc. They can only slow them down. Apparently they think that the bombs slow down following a period of aggressive military action—that’s an empirical question- would like to see some data on the subject.
Both “Palestine” and Israel have internal political reasons to be aggressive, war brings votes to hawks. Hawks are also in the best position to negotiate peace. If Doves do it, the peace will always be suspect.
My guess on why Pakistan is pulling the troops out: the Bush Admin is going out with a bang by stepping up the missile attacks in Waziristan.
The current Israeli policy is a classic example of continually slamming your head into the wall and assuming the results will be different this time. The terrorists now have more recruits than they know what to do with.
What do you think the Israelis should do?
Laura goes on the record sayin that GW Clusterfuck’s terms in office were not a failure
You heard it here first!
Try negotiating in good faith for one thing. That starts with the destruction of every Israeli settlement in the West Bank. Until that project is at least credibly begun, the Palestinians have no reason to trust or believe the Israelis about anything. I am not sure that will work, but I am absolutely certain that their current course of action, short of outright genocide, will not.
Establish a non-secular state with equal rights for all citizens.
Restore land ownership to 1948 levels.
This escalation brought on ny the Isrealis syarvation of 1.5 million ppeople in the blockade/siege is part of a larger escalation of hostilities designed renergise the “War on terror” which cannot be acccomplished in the US government…it is is similsr to a false flag operation.
The goals are much broader than Isreal/ Palestine. A smaller group of out of power neocans want the shock doctrine opportunity that comes with destabilizations.
This is the biggest fear of pro peace powers. To win a political victory but be undermined by violent orgsanizations.
You forgot to include ace Sec’y of State Condi Rice in your list.
She’s really done so well in the Middle East, after all.
Is it wise for the Israelis to give up the west bank and settlements PRIOR to negotiation rather than as a PART of the negotiation?
Which “government” is responsible for the Mumbai attack? Pakistan? India? Or perhaps it is another False Flag Attack by Al-CIAda.
Obviously, too many spies have too much time on their hands. Remember the Five Dancing M*ss*d agents celebrating the destruction of the Twin Towers on 9-11. Although India blames Pakistan, India’s Secret Service provided the “SIM” cards that allowed them unusual communication ability. The government of India does not want him to talk.
It is not only wise is absolutely necessary. Without that move, no Palestinian has any reason to believe that the Israelis are sincere about a two-state solution.
Synoia is right. Furthermore, Palestinians did chase Israelis from their land.
But the real problem is the U.S. Israel is nothing to the U.S., but the U.S. is everything to Israel. Israel is not part of the U.S., it is not the 51st State and the U.S. has no obligation to do anything for this foreign country. Israel would not exist if it weren’t for American economic, military, and political support.
It is past time to shut off the faucet.
sorry “did not”.
As soon as the discussion turns to ‘wisdom’, the ‘calculations’ of the Political Cla$$e$ MUST be factored in … In this case, as in most, such calculations, are less concerned with common humanity and actual ‘reality’ than they are with ‘profiting’ to the fullest extent possible.
Those who operate from a perceived position of superior strength, have at least SOME moral obligation, it seems to me, to have the courage to reach out first, not parsimoniously, but with the genuine intent of actually reaching a mutally acceptable ’solution’, based upon trust and NOT some vague celetial ‘promise’ of total hegemony, forever … which ‘belief’, incidentally, denies the common humanity of all.
Unless, of course, it is permissable to ignore the Commandment which suggests that treating others as one would be treated is simply meaningless palaver?
What is the nature of ‘relationships’ where one party is assumed to be inferior to the other?
Has our common, collective human heritage and history anything to say about that?
Rational and reasonable solutions may always be found for those who honestly seek them.
So, when we speak about ‘wise’ let us also consider what is the honest truth (aye, there’s the rub) …
It appears that FDL’s coverage is being noticed. I was the lucky ducky to get slammed at Siun’s ‘It’s already Sunday in Gaza..’..at #38. I am not sure if my attempt at a link will work. I’d appreciate some opinions from you guys on the comment.
http://208.43.122.193/showthread.php?t=99232
The poster told me to do my friggin’ research. Exception was taken to my link to these pictures.
http://208.43.122.193/showthread.php?t=99232
FWIW, that is not one of the Commandments. The Golden Rule is from the New Testament so would not necessarily be recognized by those who adhere strictly to the Old Testament (which seems to include a lot of folks who purport to be Christian).
However it is the brutality which is notable: victims were forced to strip, and their genitals mutilated. Even doctors used to attacks were shocked at the gratuitousness of the violation.
=======
I’m not sure it’s unexpected after Abu Ghraib. The US escalated this war with the treatment of prisoners. And who knows what really went on at Gitmo, Baghram and the black ops sites? It’s easy to believe the US has done the same or worse.
And since they know what we know — Bush lied when he said “we don’t torture” this looks like Mohammedian/Judaic Justice.
At #38..
http://firedoglake.com/2008/12…../#comments
Exactly – unless the issue of the settlements is addressed honestly, and the equally problematic land seizure involved in creating the hideous “separation wall,” all talk of a two state solution is idle nonsense. The reality on the ground, created quite deliberately by those in Israel who promoted these two projects, is one that precludes the creation of a viable Palestinian state.
By creating such an immense infrastructure on occupied territory the Israelis have made peace literally unthinkable by making the immense job of removal a precondition for any lasting peaceful settlement. Instead we have a war of attrition, carried out over many years, intended to exterminate any hope of Palestinian statehood by fragmenting and confiscating its physical territory, and leaving Palestinians with a choice of imprisonment or exile.
Ah, me ignorance is showing.
So, how then may we appeal to those who see no virtue treating others as they would be treated?
Perhaps, dakine, we should polish up on our politeness, seeing how well that has worked with Republicans over the past decade?
Old Testement … hmm, an eye for an eye creates a certain blindness, and an ear for an ear doesn’t enhance the capacity to hear …
Guess old Uncle Sugar Plum is going to have to ‘broker’ this peace … after all.
The plan is to steal the last bit of Arab land. Here is Moshe Feiglin of the Likud party when he was speaking in Toronto on March 27/08.. He answered the question of what to do about the Arabs. He said to use what worked in the Golan Heights when 60,000 Syrian Arabs were forced out. Encourage them to leave..occupy the land..Israel law..flourish the place with Jewish villages..and never sign a peace process.
http://video.google.ca/videopl…..5452525532
It has been starkly obvious for a long time that the current government (and other conservative Israeli leaders) have not intention of allowing the creation of a viable independent Palestinian state, instead to annex all of Palestine.
Obvious to the US, too. And just as obviously, they appear to agree with the plan. Israel has a right to…blah blah blah… That is all the world hears from the US and the world wonders why.
Book Salon a few flights upstairs
Doesn’t seem like normal negotiation strategy- it’s kind of like negotiating over a car and beginning by giving the other guy the car.
As by far the stronger party, Israel must make the first move and the largest initial concessions to show good faith. This is because the weaker party has far more to lose by trusting without concrete incentives. It also arises from Israeli governments repeatedly failing to act on their promises (if they had the settler issue would have been resolved 30 years ago). I am not saying the Hamas is trustworthy or a reliable partner. I am saying that this gives the Palestinian people a reason to back leaders who will be honest, trustworthy partners in peaceful negotiations. In the absence of any concrete reason to hope, they will become increasingly radicalized as they increasingly feel there is nothing left to lose.
Free Gaza is going to try to get the DIGNITY into Gaza on Monday. One of the people on board the supply ship will be former congresswoman Cynthia McKinney.
http://www.palsolidarity.org/m…..s-to-gaza/
CNN is reporting huge demonstrations in many Arab countries, demanding that their individual governments respond. They named about ten countries, Gulf Countries, North African, and of course those nearer neighbors to Israel/Palestine. Targeting the governments is somewhat new, and could destabalize many in ways we have not seen before. This is apparently less directed specifically at Israel, rather at Arab governments. Focus is on what the Arab League, scheduled to meet on Wednesday, might do besides write an angry letter. If these demonstrations are threatening to Arab Governments — it may be a difficult to predict outcome. Worth watching. CNN commentator saying that the demonstrators are not Islamists, rather in most countries they seem to be professionals and middle classed, not led by Imams and all.
On India/Pakistan. Indian Press reporting that Indian Navy is moving assets from the East Coast to the West Coast — Arabian Sea. Not clear whether this is purely defensive, or something else. Also interesting reporting on Russian-Chinese pressure on Pakistan, with emphasis on China putting pressure on Pakistan. Aside from the Naval movements, India does not seem to have moved troops to the border, though they are conducting normal training in the Rajasthan sands — quite normal for the cool winter months. India has also hosted the Saudi Foreign Minister, seemingly trying to get the Saudi’s to put additional pressure on Pakistan. Interesting, but good luck.
I am not on either side..but If Mexico allowed militants to fire rockets into San Diego, I’d hope the US Gvt would bomb northern Mexico back into the stone age. Just my observation. How many rocket attacks would YOU tolerate? 10? 100? 200? 500? a day?
International terrorists don’t need the Gaza. They have their own agenda and it doesn’t include an independent Palestinian state. They need the Palestinians only to flame the hatred in the Muslim world for anything not Muslim…to that respect they are damned happy for this attack! As someone already correctly stated..they have the Internet, Palestine is small potatoes.
Take religion out of it, and you got a smallish patch of eternally worthless, non-productive sand…who cares..except for the religious zealots on all 3 sides…no matter who lives there, they will always need outside help to exist… the middle east has only one natural resource..and it’s running out…when it’s gone, I am afraid the 99.5% of the world that feigns interest…will abruptly stop caring what the hell happens there. Then the 3 religions will reach their own final solution and kill off themselves with Chinese, Iranian, Russian, and American WMDs. I opine that no matter what anyone there does, no one will ever be satisfied. The Arab league is happy to have Israel and Palestine warring…if the Palestinians left, they’d become wards of the ARAB states…Palestinians, no matter how swell a people, are not Arabs..,and Arabs care for Arabs….solely…just as Israeli Jews care for the Jews…and only Jews…period.
I can hear the gnashing of teeth when I said “Palestinians are not Arabs”
Here is the Wikipedia on the subject. Palestinians are mostly related to Jews, if you want get genetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people
Hey, for you uninformed, Iranians, Lebonese and Iraqis are not Arabs either…and except sharing a religion…they have almost nothing in common with Arabs. They have a rich long 11,000+ year history that did not include Arabs, or Bedonism, thank you very much.
You might as well say that you want us to consider the hotdog, setting aside the meat.
And Occam’s Razor is not applicable. Oversimplifying this region is part of the reason that it is such a mess.
Y o u, _ b y _ r e p o r t i n g _ the mutilation of the Mumbai victims (and now me by commenting on it) are carrying water for terrorists. I believe that you could have made your point without spreading terror to me.