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	<title>Comments on: Orwell In Israel</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/</link>
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		<title>By: bluebutterfly</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773714</link>
		<dc:creator>bluebutterfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 02:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773714</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;…don’t cast your pearls before swine seems appropriate here…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>…don’t cast your pearls before swine seems appropriate here…</p>
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		<title>By: akak</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773598</link>
		<dc:creator>akak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 23:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773598</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ian, you’re points are well-taken, but to say:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Who is it that Hamas uses to make sure rockets only get launched when Hamas wants them to? That would be… the police and the security forces.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think that implies that Hamas has absolute control over Islamic Jihad and other militant groups, which i think is debatable. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Imagine if Iraq had told the U.S. that it was responsible for all the attacks on its territory and that it had to stop them all before any talks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, you’re points are well-taken, but to say:</p>
<blockquote><p>Who is it that Hamas uses to make sure rockets only get launched when Hamas wants them to? That would be… the police and the security forces.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I think that implies that Hamas has absolute control over Islamic Jihad and other militant groups, which i think is debatable. </p>
<p>Imagine if Iraq had told the U.S. that it was responsible for all the attacks on its territory and that it had to stop them all before any talks.</p>
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		<title>By: Audrey</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773509</link>
		<dc:creator>Audrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773509</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;LOL! Had to Google to get your meaning! Thanks. I live in Peacock Texas. Hence the name. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;HTH&lt;br /&gt;
Audrey&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL! Had to Google to get your meaning! Thanks. I live in Peacock Texas. Hence the name. </p>
<p>HTH<br />
Audrey</p>
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		<title>By: Audrey</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773502</link>
		<dc:creator>Audrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773502</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tried to respond earlier but it wouldn’t go through. Had to reboot so I made another pot of coffee and eschewed hot cocoa. Both were part of my drink request. So now, you can make mine a brandy if you’ve got it. Thanks. :)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tried to respond earlier but it wouldn’t go through. Had to reboot so I made another pot of coffee and eschewed hot cocoa. Both were part of my drink request. So now, you can make mine a brandy if you’ve got it. Thanks. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Synoia</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773496</link>
		<dc:creator>Synoia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773496</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This map says it all&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://firedoglake.com/2008/12.....k-on-gaza/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Isrealis want the land and the water. And they are ruthless in taking it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This map says it all</p>
<p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/" rel="nofollow">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12&#8230;..k-on-gaza/</a></p>
<p>The Isrealis want the land and the water. And they are ruthless in taking it.</p>
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		<title>By: RevBev</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773487</link>
		<dc:creator>RevBev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773487</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And our headline said:  Troops moving nearer India.  That would be Pakistan, you understand.  Yep, and Happy New Year.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And our headline said:  Troops moving nearer India.  That would be Pakistan, you understand.  Yep, and Happy New Year.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773478</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773478</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Everybody familiar with the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.warresisters.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;War Resisters League&lt;/a&gt;?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everybody familiar with the <a href="http://www.warresisters.org/" rel="nofollow">War Resisters League</a>?</p>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773475</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773475</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Saw your comments on earlier thread.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Peacock Chronicle&lt;br /&gt;
Peacock Throne&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nice name combo.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saw your comments on earlier thread.</p>
<p>Peacock Chronicle<br />
Peacock Throne</p>
<p>Nice name combo.</p>
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		<title>By: shootthatarrow</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773473</link>
		<dc:creator>shootthatarrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;In simple physical dimensions Gaza’a width and lenght make the idea of using high pressured aerial attacks by American provided Israeli F-16 warjets on a largely civilian,unarmed population of children,women and elderly barbaric and heartlessly cruel.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Clearly the Bush/Cheney regime and Princess Condi Rice had a hand in this attack being unleashed on Gazans.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Perhaps Israel should just cut to the chase and barricade three sides of Gaza and then on fourth side introduce massive grinding ground IDF and with high repeat IDF air attacks just keep killing Gazans until there are no more alive Gazans.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This will end the rocket attacks surely then. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;By reducing Gazan civil infrastructure or offices of governance to rubble and dead bodies who does Israel propose is going to provide any civil framework for policing so called rocket attackers?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Israeil logic seems to orbit around this ludicrous premise of destroying and killing off Arab Palestinian civil governance ability and then accusing Arab Palestinians of not having effective civil governance.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Other predictable outcome is further radicalization and incensed humiliation revenge drives of remaining Arab Palestinians in positions of leadership.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Israel deserves full condemnation from the planet in whole for the stupidity and evil it is practicing in full measure in West Bank and Gaza.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One can only hope Bush/Cheney regime and Princess Condi Rice reap in this life or the life to come what they have sown. They will richly deserve it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In simple physical dimensions Gaza’a width and lenght make the idea of using high pressured aerial attacks by American provided Israeli F-16 warjets on a largely civilian,unarmed population of children,women and elderly barbaric and heartlessly cruel.</p>
<p>Clearly the Bush/Cheney regime and Princess Condi Rice had a hand in this attack being unleashed on Gazans.</p>
<p>Perhaps Israel should just cut to the chase and barricade three sides of Gaza and then on fourth side introduce massive grinding ground IDF and with high repeat IDF air attacks just keep killing Gazans until there are no more alive Gazans.</p>
<p>This will end the rocket attacks surely then. </p>
<p>By reducing Gazan civil infrastructure or offices of governance to rubble and dead bodies who does Israel propose is going to provide any civil framework for policing so called rocket attackers?</p>
<p>Israeil logic seems to orbit around this ludicrous premise of destroying and killing off Arab Palestinian civil governance ability and then accusing Arab Palestinians of not having effective civil governance.</p>
<p>Other predictable outcome is further radicalization and incensed humiliation revenge drives of remaining Arab Palestinians in positions of leadership.</p>
<p>Israel deserves full condemnation from the planet in whole for the stupidity and evil it is practicing in full measure in West Bank and Gaza.</p>
<p>One can only hope Bush/Cheney regime and Princess Condi Rice reap in this life or the life to come what they have sown. They will richly deserve it.</p>
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		<title>By: ralphbon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773469</link>
		<dc:creator>ralphbon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/27/orwell-in-israel/#comment-1773469</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So, what would change we can believe in look like with respect to Israel’s latest actions? What kind of statement from the Obama transition team could signal that we’re not entering another four to eight years of the kind of flaccid deference to Israeli war crimes characterized by the Clinton administration under Albright, Indyk, and Ross? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here’s my dream statement from Obama:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;As I said repeatedly during the past year, Israel’s right to security is absolute. But that does not mean that an Obama administration will apply absolute credulity to every claim Israel makes regarding every action it takes in the name of security. In particular, we will apply close scrutiny, according to no one’s best judgment but our own, to all applications of force by Israel, whether in the form of blockades or overt military strikes. &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;I would remind both the current and aspiring leaders of Israel that excessive force and collective punishment not only violate international law, they have proven profoundly and tragically counterproductive. One does not bomb terrorists out of existence; one bombs them into existence. The United States has learned this lesson dearly over the past seven years, and we look forward to working with an Israeli leadership that can demonstrate that it has learned it as well. And we have great concern over whether Israel’s current actions in Gaza indicate evidence of such learning.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Anyway, I can dream, can’t I? Of course, the reason we won’t see such a message, apart from concerns over interference with what’s left of the Bush administration’s authority, is the havoc it would wreak in confirmation hearings. In the US Congress, even the progressives are Israel hawks, and one can only imagine what would happen to Hillary if compelled under oath to declare concordance with such a statement. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have little doubt that such considerations of US domestic politics contributed to the decision to bomb Gaza, in addition to Israeli internal politics.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, what would change we can believe in look like with respect to Israel’s latest actions? What kind of statement from the Obama transition team could signal that we’re not entering another four to eight years of the kind of flaccid deference to Israeli war crimes characterized by the Clinton administration under Albright, Indyk, and Ross? </p>
<p>Here’s my dream statement from Obama:</p>
<p><em>As I said repeatedly during the past year, Israel’s right to security is absolute. But that does not mean that an Obama administration will apply absolute credulity to every claim Israel makes regarding every action it takes in the name of security. In particular, we will apply close scrutiny, according to no one’s best judgment but our own, to all applications of force by Israel, whether in the form of blockades or overt military strikes. </em></p>
<p><em>I would remind both the current and aspiring leaders of Israel that excessive force and collective punishment not only violate international law, they have proven profoundly and tragically counterproductive. One does not bomb terrorists out of existence; one bombs them into existence. The United States has learned this lesson dearly over the past seven years, and we look forward to working with an Israeli leadership that can demonstrate that it has learned it as well. And we have great concern over whether Israel’s current actions in Gaza indicate evidence of such learning.</em></p>
<p>Anyway, I can dream, can’t I? Of course, the reason we won’t see such a message, apart from concerns over interference with what’s left of the Bush administration’s authority, is the havoc it would wreak in confirmation hearings. In the US Congress, even the progressives are Israel hawks, and one can only imagine what would happen to Hillary if compelled under oath to declare concordance with such a statement. </p>
<p>I have little doubt that such considerations of US domestic politics contributed to the decision to bomb Gaza, in addition to Israeli internal politics.</p>
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