The Israelis fed and cared for their enemy…then bombed & killed a few of them minutes later? Huh. Sounds about right. Assholes. Spit.

thanks Ian, as always a clear view in a very muddled world

this is a zero sum game and has been right from the get-go. There is no solution to this, IMHO.

Revenge of the Neocons – their last gasp. Cue heavy breathing here.

Huffpost has an AP article up that makes the statement that Hamas “seized power” in Gaza, and by inference that Israel has done nothing at all to justify the rockets fired in their direction; no blockade, no humanitarian crisis, no children shot by snipers, nothing. I’m so completely sick of the stupidity.

EPU’d from PUAC:

I am just back from seeing the first TV reports on the Israeli attack on Gaza on Spanish TV, you will not probably see these without heavy censoring. Deepest apologies for the OT. If anyone with a beating heart can justify what I have just seen, you are among the damned. I have commented earlier that there is a shadow over those who practice the festival of the lights. I was mistaken. It is a pall of blood, of the innocent, of the powerless, of the disenfranchised. May God damn every cognizant person who is either involved or supports such violent outrages. I vow that never again will I buy or give support to Israel, its government, or its people until the victims all assure me they have forgiven these murderers. Deepest apologies for transgressing this holy posting.

I stand by my comments; unforgivable murderers

Yeah, they seized power after they were democratically elected and not allowed to take office properly.

How about some peace demonstrations around synagogues here?

I said it yesterday and I’ll say it again. The IDF is a state sponsored terrorist organization.

The only thing Israel is defending is its ethnic cleansing, or genocide, whichever one prefers, of the Palestinians.

News quoting Israel will intensify and widen operation as needed….

I’ve just sent an email to SPFP suggesting we start demonstrating around synagogues in St Pete.

I have supported Isreal for a lifetime. As it turns out, Isreal seems to have been a bad idea.
Now what?

israel is just the proxy for the real agressor here.i think what they may be trying to do is create a climate for a sunni response. then israel will complete the srubs work in that area. only got 3 weks.

My 3 cents:

The U.S. stands behind Israel in this attack in the eyes of the Palestinians (as well as in reality), and therefore is equally responsible for the attack in those same eyes (despite the U.S. government’s worthless response about not killing civilians).

A whole bunch of new enemies (if that’s possible) have just been created for the U.S.

be careful out there.

There is broad diplomatic condemnation for these attacks:

The EU, which includes the UK and France separately. (Michael Martin just released the full statement).

Russia.

Turkey. That’s important, since Turkey is often an ally of Israel on security issues.

Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Libya, and Egypt, with the Arab League to follow.

Notably absent is the US and PRC.

Good Morning SD….How did you like the Moyers’ piece? Looks particularly relevant this morning, doesn’t it?

“I am prepared to die, but there is no cause for which I am prepared to kill.” M K Gandhi

This operation has probably been planned for weeks, to begin just after Christmas, when most Americans are tuned out.

You got that right. I don’t know if it’s possible for me to be more fed up with Israel and its apologists.

They want to break Hamas. Also, they wanted an immediate stop of all attacks in return for ending the blockade. There were a dozen mortars or rockets launched into Israel later that day.

Which was obviously enough for Israel’s hawks to decide to engage in a surprise attack – and this was a surprise attack, with the intent of hitting Hamas political leadership.

morning. sorry, missed a recent moyer’s piece. i’ll try ta find it. thanks for the tip.

Beyond Our Differences

Ah domestic politics in action. The Kadima/Labor crowd wants to prove they are tougher than Bibi Netanyahu and the Likud Party.

They are also boxing in Obama. They’ll ask where does HE stand on this.

I’m tired of all of these warmongers.

-G

This attack means that Fatah will not be able to make piece either. Abbas has condemned the attacks and is rounding up support in the Arab League for supplies to flow to the Levant. This is rumored to include support for a Hezbollah strike from the north. Hezbollah has stated that it will “support” Hamas. What that means, is not yet clear.

A word of caution about accusing innocent believers of the Laws; avoid doing so if anyway possible. However, boycott all products and services of the state of israel, their people, their corporations, their government. Resist any support by the US government to support these wanton murders. One day, your efforts will have a positive effect. Until the victims of israeli murder forgive their murderers, keep to such a vow. Small things have large effect.

It was a very moving piece; Im sure you can locate a site. B

I agree.

thanks, ya know, i just found out he is a minister of some kind. guess i never pay much attention but i don’t recall him every pushing anything except reason.

This morning on NPR, year in review, Dan Schorr was talking about what a big challenge will be facing us/Obama in the deteriorating Afghan. situation. Where are the voices for peace?

all ya have ta do is be a smart consumer. just know who yer doin business with. i do it every day.

That’s right…Baptist. Had ministry training before his journalism work took him a different way.

I don’t know that he’s a minister but he is deeply religious. Southern Baptist, I believe. There are people of the cloth who combine reason with faith, e.g., Archbishop Desmund Tutu, the Dalai Lama, etc. I can’t say the same for the majority of the religious leadership in our country.

Israel is clearly a rougue nation which has violated many UN resolutions. Bush are your listening? Don’t you need to go in there and enforce the UN resolutions? Ha???

i’m afraid there are few voices for peace with the muslim nation here. we are a christian nation with christian policies. it’s going to have to get a lot worse.

Moyer’s show last night was about how the world’s religions are about peace and tolerance and blah blah blah and that religion can solve these conflicts.

But of course religion is at the CORE of these conflicts too. hahaha.

Religious hatred like racism runs deep in that region amongst too many people. The killing will go on and on and on and hopefully one day there will no one left to kill and peace will reign. What a path to peace.

in 2002 after what was done by the idf in the jenin refuge camp, a march was held in support of what israel had done by some local right wing jewish organizations. some of us stood a silent vigil on the roadside while they passed (with just one, very large banner that said something like “we stand for peace and security for all israelis and palestinians”). this seemed to me to be a good response, because it wasn’t confusing those of the jewish faith with those who were supporting the atrocities. ymmv.

The Lebanese army reportedly defused several Hezbollah rockets aimed at Israel a day or two ago. Hezbollah is now more firmly ensconced in the Lebanese government than they were before the 2006 summer war with Israel too.

What a nightmare.

-G

Israel blows.

Because of the small size of Gaza, it’s unlikely that they can win tactically, but politically, the goal is just to show Israel that they can’t take Hamas out using military force

Maybe Hamas wants to make Israel politically unpopular in a recession. The NeoCons have fallen out of favor, foreign aid to countries when our economy is in trouble is not going to sell.
Civilian Deaths caused by Israel will sooner or later make them unpopular.
Tell me what happens to Israel’s economy without American aid? Politically the Arab vote is growing and oil money can certainly influence politics.
Israel is assuming that American political support is a constant circumstances change.

I used to like Israel, too.

Israel is clearly a rougue nation which has violated many UN resolutions.

the usa is a clearly a rogue nation which has violated many UN resolutions.

but the guilt of my own country doesn’t mean i won’t speak out against this. especially as i don’t believe it would be possible without the support of my own country.

I do not have the stomach for this today/so early in the morning, etc etc etc. Head in sand? Maybe.

If anyone is looking for a good movie…both MILK and DOUBT are remarkable. Cheers. Adieu

I agree. If my group decides on action we will ensure that it is the state of Israel’s policies we are targeting, not the general populace.

I used to like Israel, too.

it’s so sad.

i may get flamed for saying this, but i think that zionism is a liberation movement. but i also think it has become in practice a justification for bigotry, oppression and worse – a slow motion ethnic cleansing. the contradictions are beyond my comprehension.

i had no doubts about you, SD. just thought it was worth saying…

Mrs. Pierce’s 10th greade history class.

The history of humankind is chock full of examples of the oppressed becoming the oppressor.

Israel makes me sad.

-G

What I can’t figure out is this: totally worst case scenario — what if the Israelis somehow kill every single Palestinian that there is there. What THEN? They’ve already turned themselves into the people they created Israel to escape FROM. What do they think is going to happen?

they think they will have followed the bible. nothin else matters.

Both Israel and the USA are terrorist nations.

It is interesting to note that those who would accuse us of “blaming America first”, support a ‘philosophy’ which is premised on screwing America first … how else may we account for conditions in this country?

The NeoCons who would have us support Israel to the doors of hell and beyond, are the very ones busily dismantling our Constitution and ravaging our economy for their small circle of friends …

The ’sound-bite’ crew, from top to bottom, seem oblivious to this reality.

Those at the top, of course, make out like bandits, while those lower down are simply angry, frightened little souls with meager evidence of conscience or empathy.

Well said.

Feurae says hello.

when did you ever care about getting flamed? I’ve never grasped Zionism to tell the truth. But certainly something in Israeli mentality – at least those who govern – not conducive to peace

The cycle of violence that is embodied in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is yet one more example of the human races seeming inability or unwillingness to deal fairly with each other. As far as I’m concerned, you make an agreement and you keep an agreement no matter your avarice or greed. In this debacle and countless others in world history, we see nothing but treaties and agreements that one party or both have no intention of keeping. What’s the point of making them in the first place? Delaying tactic?

Sure would like to see the “show text” link in a full function mode.

Greetings SD, my best regards to you and all of your tigers.

(A Feurae, at this end, my friend, is purr-fectly pleased)

;~D

i suspect that your definition of America, a country that includes among other things, all it’s people, is something quite different than the NeoCons’ (and their fellow travelers’) definition – which probably only includes their small circle.

when did you ever care about getting flamed?

LOL! always. must be good at faking the not caring.

cnn says all rockets came from gaza. does anyone know if they were russian or chinese made? someone above said lebanon found some. what kind?

The incoming POTUS is neck deep in zionists, zionism is one of the values
he shares with Rick Warren, and his SEC State designate is a wild eyed
zionist… change is not likely to come from that group. The Israel fetish
lives on.

Peace to thee and thine.

I just finished reading the first 3 Mars novels of Burroughs. Think I’ll name the next tiger to cross my path Woola, after John Carter’s faithful calot.

I see parallels between Israel and Zimbabwe.

Living in the glory of the struggle of the past. While foresaking all they once fought for in the present.

-G

My understanding is that they’re home made, hence their notorious ineffectiveness.

Maybe I could have said something more constructive than “Israel blows”, but these events really have me perturbed off. Looks like maybe JTB was right. Barack is gonna have his hands full with a foreign policy crisis right away. Plus Pakistan……………….

Israelis surely signaled this to WashingtonDC and the WashDC Americans plainly decided to put on the blue and white star and bar shirts and not true black and white referee shirts.

So Americans really think in doing so somehow WashingtonDC is in position to broker anything other than more arms sales to Israel? Fully earn deep, lasting mistrust and hatred of Gazans and West Bank Palestinians?

Clearly WashingtonDC has drifted very far into Israels web of greased $$ politics,ignorance and arrogance in all matters to do with West Asia.

Likely incoming Obama/Biden/Clinton run WH will stay with this wanton American longterm plan for ultimate failure in West Asia as well.

Israel is going to come to bad end with this seemingly emotional satisfying but in long run failing intellect warmongering conduct.

The math is not in Israels favor. The sooner Israelis come around to seeing this the better.

Israel–like Americans in Vietnam,Iraq or Afghanistan–cannot kill to victory with West Bank Arabs or Gazans. Does Israel really want to go down the genocide/Hitlerian Nazi expunging pathway? Does Israel understand how montrous the nature of the fire it is playing with in West Bank or Gaza is?

Those Israeli warplanes very likely are American models and WashingtonDC has full ability to bring the Israelis to heel because of that fact.

So where is WashingtonDC regarding showing some long range intelligence of conduct in West Asia?

Has AIPAC and Israel bound WashingtonDC so completely? This American blindness to wretched plight of Gazans is numbing. Pathetically numbing.

The Israeli’s are no better than the terrorists that target innocent people!

The oppressed are now the oppressors !!

Well, selise, ‘they’ make their own ‘reality’ and I’m am rather certain that it is premised on the ‘right’ crowd and no crowding …

I am only amazed that 46 percent of the public would prefer such a feudalistic oligarchy to control their circumscribed and shallow sensibilities, in the hopes of impressing Jesus, rather than coming into the light of responsible, adult ‘beinghood’ …

they used to use katyusha rockets. maybe they are easy ta build now. no guidance system and all.

so much of what i see happening in israel, i’ve seen happen here. the fear that was felt here after 911 is a fear most israelis feel throughout their lives. the warmongering politicians who used our fear to consolidate their control, the demonization of muslims and arabs. the religious language used to justify our wars – see “crusade” and “clash of civilizations.” all that is something israelis have to cope with too, but at 100x strength.

i have a lot of sympathy for regular israelis who’s fears are manipulated by politicians.

not to interrupt this very important discussion, but FYI — PW is upstairs with Hot Cross buns…yummmy

isn’t that what joe b said?

i though your comment was constructive as it stood. was just reflecting on it and typing at the same time….

Yahoo piece on Lebanese military finding missiles.

Identified as “katyusha’s”.

-G

thanks. wonder who is makin those parts now?

yup. Joe The Biden. and he got trashed for it. can’t be so quick to trash JTB. gird yer lions, ya know.

Ah, Woola is a fine name for a deserving pooka …

The relatively new Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church, Katharine Jefforts Schori, is as much a great intellect as she is a great spiritual leader, in the mold of Desmond Tutu. Her sermons are available on-line, and when she speaks of the current Israeli/Palestinian crisis, I will provide a link.

If they haven’t met already, Obama and Schori will meet at the National Cathedral Inauguration prayer service to be held a couple of days after Obama’s swearing in. I think she may become an important influence on him.

Thanks, Ian, for your thoughtful piece.

Obama is a friend of Israel. That doesn’t mean he is an enemy of Palestinians.

Palestinian reports have increased death toll to 195.

One Israeli reported dead.

-G

Ian, I opened the DIGG and commented there.

Please, Readers, DIGG Ian’s article (and a one-line comment there doubles your DIGG). [you could also give me a thumbs up while there. he,he,he]

Did you ever order a flute? Just curious.

msm is so desperate to avoid this as “news” that CNN is highlighting Iraq war news, casualties, bombings, etc.
not a word “boo” about this anywhere on the toooobz.
asshats!

That’s strange. CNN.com has it front and center.

Thanks for the thumbs up, SD.
No flute yet – Christmas, donations to ACLU, FDL, Thos. Tamm, etc….

How’s your music making coming along?
I left you a message at Hot Cross Buns.

The donations will be put to good use.

I can do the basic scale without squeaking too often. I have small hands and slim fingers and have to concentrate on covering the holes. Just a matter of practice. I love the sounds, though. Low and earthy.

I did not say he was, you made the leap from zionist affinity to palestinian enemy yourself, wonder why?

SD, maybe some of my dreams should remain dreams. I bought a piano back in about 1963 without permission from then husband; nearly caused the big split that did come later – - I was too unpredictable. (he,he,he).

That piano sat there and was an elephant of a reminder of the big fight — I never got very good at it. Our dachshund used to lift her head and howl when I gave a performance.

Just came by. This is very bad news. It shows the brutality of the Israeli overlordship of these lands. This is the same stupid policy they used against Arafat for years. The Israelis didn’t like Arafat and so attacked his security forces. Then they said that they had to keep attacking Palestinians because Arafat couldn’t maintain security, which of course he couldn’t because the Israelis had destroyed his security forces. We are seeing a replay of this boneheaded strategy in Gaza.

Was pupper any good at keeping time?

Oh no. I think everyone knew this was coming, but I didn’t expect it so soon. Just one DAY after allowing a bit of food and supplies in…

I think full scale ethnic cleansing is the intention, they just plan for it to take another decade. Look how far they have come already…

So, in Isreal, is today the Sabbath, or was that yesterday on that side of the globe?

Worse than that — they allowed in a few dozen trucks of “aid” (a drop in the bucket of the Gazan’s real needs, as Siun mentioned) and allowed journalists to film the trucks, then closed off food and media access again as they geared up to attack Gaza.

Everyone was to busy bustin’ with laughter to notice. For me it was worse than boo-hiss. Don’t know if you’ve ever had a hound; they can really wail.

Read this link and ask that question again.

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/…..ropaganda/

When ethnic cleansing is the goal, there can be no peace. No matter how much the Palestinians want peace, it has long been the purpose of Israel to wipe them out. You cannot negotiate, make deals, or compromise with someone whose sole purpose is to destroy you.

Audrey-

When ethnic cleansing is the goal, there can be no peace…. You cannot negotiate, make deals, or compromise with someone whose sole purpose is to destroy you.

You are correct, but have the parties backwards. There could have been an independent, self-governing Palestinian state at any time since 1948, had the Palestinians and their Arab “allies” been willing to accept the continued presence of Jews in Israel. Before 1967, Egypt and Jordan chose to maintain the Palestinian Arabs as “refugees” in camps, rather than accept them as their citizens (as Israel did for the Jews expelled from other Arab lands). or establish them in an independent state. Instead they chose to use them as a weapon against the Jews. (Not Israel, per se, but the existence of Jews in the area.) It is only recently that the Palestinian government, on paper at least, renounced its demand for the destruction of Israel. Others, including Hamas’s sponsor, Iran, mainatain this as their ultimate goal.

Since 1967, Israel has repeated offered a “two-state” solution, and been rebuffed by the Palestinian “leadership.” Instead, these leaders have waged a continuous rocket and artillery war against Israeli civilians, while their agents conducted suicide and other bombings against the weakest Israeli targets.

Can you name another country in history that has kept its boders open with a neighbor that is at war with them? Has any other country sent humanitarian aid to a country currently shelling them and sending missiles into their territory. (How would the US react if Mexico began shelling San Diego? Consider how we reacted to Iraq which may have had the possiblility of attacking us at some time in the future.)

Couple this with the statements by Hamas that their command posts are (deliberately) placed within civilian neighborhoods, often next to or in hospitals, that they use the Red Crescent ambulances to smuggle guns and terrorists.

Then ask youself which party has not been negotiating in good faith.

US Response:

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused Hamas of having triggered the new bout of violence.

“The United States strongly condemns the repeated rocket and mortar attacks against Israel and holds Hamas responsible for breaking the ceasefire and for the renewal of violence in Gaza,” she said.

BBC

I was watching the part in “Beyond Our Differences” where the Dalai Lama is counseling “Although we totally oppose their actions, their activities, we always can keep compassion. Do not develop hatred towards the person” and accepting the Nobel Peace Prize, while I was simultaneously reading through my tears of the attacks on the people in Gaza and the U.S. and Israel blaming the Palestinian people for their own deaths.

It was a supremely beautiful moment, not because of the terrible carnage, but because of the synchronistic and utterly serendipitous presence of the energies of peace and compassion in the midst of the energies of war and human suffering.

Not that peace would defeat war, because that’s just more war, but that we might hold peace and war together in wholeness and love.

It simply astonishes me that our politicians continue to express support for these murderers.

Israel has become its shadow. There’s nothing to redeem. I wouldn’t spend a single American dollar, much less a single American life, in defense of Israel. For what they’ve done to the Palestinian people, they deserve nothing but contempt.