Comments on: Bread, then Bombs? Israel Still Likely to Launch Major Attack on Gaza http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/ Firedoglake weblog Fri, 27 Nov 2009 04:04:41 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Amaliada http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1773220 Amaliada Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:59:31 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1773220 <p>Anyone who reads ACCURATE history books without an agenda can see that Israel did not take land and actually was willing to live alongside the Palestinians. It was them who declared war after indepedence was declared and them who fled from the country when Israel begged them to stay while the surrounding Arab countries planned to attack. It is also the Syrians who attacked Israel in 1967, spurring Israel to push them back and taking the Golan Heights… Israel has been provoked and prodded since its existance. Any land claimed was usually done as a defense initiative. I truly believe the West Bank belongs to Israel…. Does this mean that the settlers are right in their provocations?…No….</p> <p>–</p> <p>I suppose if we exchanged Arabs or Palestinians or Syrians for the names of the Native American tribes here in the United States, we would better understand the viewpoint of those who live in Israel…or maybe not.</p> <p>Forgetting that Israel also has nuclear weapons is a big mistake - it is exactly the reason why Iran and Syria (and previously Libya) also wanted the same weapons. And, I honestly believe, that any nation that practices collective punishment may also use nuclear weapons against its enemies. Didn’t the United States during World War II? Collective punishment by imprisoning those of Japanese ancestry followed by the nuclear bombing of Japan.</p> Anyone who reads ACCURATE history books without an agenda can see that Israel did not take land and actually was willing to live alongside the Palestinians. It was them who declared war after indepedence was declared and them who fled from the country when Israel begged them to stay while the surrounding Arab countries planned to attack. It is also the Syrians who attacked Israel in 1967, spurring Israel to push them back and taking the Golan Heights… Israel has been provoked and prodded since its existance. Any land claimed was usually done as a defense initiative. I truly believe the West Bank belongs to Israel…. Does this mean that the settlers are right in their provocations?…No….

–

I suppose if we exchanged Arabs or Palestinians or Syrians for the names of the Native American tribes here in the United States, we would better understand the viewpoint of those who live in Israel…or maybe not.

Forgetting that Israel also has nuclear weapons is a big mistake – it is exactly the reason why Iran and Syria (and previously Libya) also wanted the same weapons. And, I honestly believe, that any nation that practices collective punishment may also use nuclear weapons against its enemies. Didn’t the United States during World War II? Collective punishment by imprisoning those of Japanese ancestry followed by the nuclear bombing of Japan.

]]> By: mghcl http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1773071 mghcl Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:44:09 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1773071 <p>The sad reality is that most posting here are simply given an extreme liberal viewpoint all the way from high school through college. They don’t bother to check silly things like why things are the way they are. They are told something is this way and wrong and that’s it with no bother to check the true history of situations for themselves.<br /> Why is it that palestinians would rather go into Israel to work? Could it be that Israel has been far more succesful and has more opportunities? What other country in the middle east can you say is successful without the benifit of oil wealth? And no you can’t blame every other surrounding countries mediocre plight on Israel either!!!<br /> The fact is that the Palestinians are actually brainwashing babies to believe that suicide bombings are heroic. There Sesame Street has a freaking terrorist theme!! But Israel is supposed to accept the democratically elected government that has imposed these sorts of ideals…you people are unbelievable. The leaders of Hamas aren’t liberators, they’re simply opportunists hoping that a peace deal is reached so that they can have total control. Any man that can send a child to do their dirty work is a thug and no man at all, and signing a peace accord with them is pointless as they will never simply walk away.<br /> I have an idea…why don’t those who criticize read a history book older than 1969 and find out the truth!! Your college professor’s liberal idealogies have your minds twisted. Not everything in the world can be solved with a “peace accord”. You would think they would have learned that when 3 million were killed after the US left Vietnam, but I’m sure that part was never mentioned to you in college, I know Jane Fonda hasn’t thought a second about it since she helped “liberate” them right before they were murdered. Sometimes people in power need to be pushed aside for any true prosperity to come about. Israel just launched air strikes…I say good riddance. Kill the leaders of Hamas and install someone into power that isn’t so suicidal before the whole place is overrun with 8 year old’s blowing themselves up. Grow up people!!</p> The sad reality is that most posting here are simply given an extreme liberal viewpoint all the way from high school through college. They don’t bother to check silly things like why things are the way they are. They are told something is this way and wrong and that’s it with no bother to check the true history of situations for themselves.
Why is it that palestinians would rather go into Israel to work? Could it be that Israel has been far more succesful and has more opportunities? What other country in the middle east can you say is successful without the benifit of oil wealth? And no you can’t blame every other surrounding countries mediocre plight on Israel either!!!
The fact is that the Palestinians are actually brainwashing babies to believe that suicide bombings are heroic. There Sesame Street has a freaking terrorist theme!! But Israel is supposed to accept the democratically elected government that has imposed these sorts of ideals…you people are unbelievable. The leaders of Hamas aren’t liberators, they’re simply opportunists hoping that a peace deal is reached so that they can have total control. Any man that can send a child to do their dirty work is a thug and no man at all, and signing a peace accord with them is pointless as they will never simply walk away.
I have an idea…why don’t those who criticize read a history book older than 1969 and find out the truth!! Your college professor’s liberal idealogies have your minds twisted. Not everything in the world can be solved with a “peace accord”. You would think they would have learned that when 3 million were killed after the US left Vietnam, but I’m sure that part was never mentioned to you in college, I know Jane Fonda hasn’t thought a second about it since she helped “liberate” them right before they were murdered. Sometimes people in power need to be pushed aside for any true prosperity to come about. Israel just launched air strikes…I say good riddance. Kill the leaders of Hamas and install someone into power that isn’t so suicidal before the whole place is overrun with 8 year old’s blowing themselves up. Grow up people!!

]]> By: newtonusr http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1773013 newtonusr Sat, 27 Dec 2008 07:16:30 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1773013 <blockquote><p>For one thing, in regards to Israel’s motives, what is written on this site is completely wrong.</p></blockquote> <p>With all due respect, watch the following:<br /><a href="http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/israel.palestine/" rel="nofollow">In The Line Of Fire, March 2003</a><br /> Your curiosity about some of the things said here should be partially satisfied.</p>

For one thing, in regards to Israel’s motives, what is written on this site is completely wrong.

With all due respect, watch the following:
In The Line Of Fire, March 2003
Your curiosity about some of the things said here should be partially satisfied.

]]> By: karter1000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1773009 karter1000 Sat, 27 Dec 2008 07:07:51 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1773009 <p>I am not exactly sure why I am writing this, as I am sure that either no one will listen or I will receive a comment completely denying or breaking apart any comment that I make.. Maybe I am doing this more or less to relieve any anger that I feel from reading the garbage on this page. As an Israeli citizen, I have seen, heard, and felt all things first-hand regarding the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and, despite what you may believe, have seen both sides of the spectrum. For one thing, in regards to Israel’s motives, what is written on this site is completely wrong. Most Israelis, with the exception of the ultra-right, want peace, including the government. This is evident in the many arguments that are held in both the civilian level and government level. There is great unrest as to what to do with the military which is evident in the many changes of direction in talks with the Palestinians and peace proposals..especially in recent years. Many people and politicians would give land up in a heartbeat if they were assured that this would bring peace. However, Palestinian governments (both Fatah and Hamas) have given no assurance of peace for any deal…..at the most, an assurance of “possible peace.” This would be utterly unacceptable for any country. You describe Israel as a heartless country that cares nothing about the well-being of the Palestinians and as a ruthless military state. It is true that every citizen must serve in the army.. However, it graves all parents to let their children serve and every soldier prays and hopes that his or her children will not have to do the same. This cannot be said for many Palestinian families who teach hate to their children and have very little remorse to send them to die. In the army, I served as a combat medic. Due to the fact that I was rarely in combat, I saw both sides and was required to treat both Israelis and Palestinians. While on the Gaza border, it was a daily occurance to catch terrorists, mostly of whom were young children, who crossed the border. Some had weapons and bombs, while others were relatively unarmed. Many times, they were sent to be caught intentionally in order to test the army and see in the bases. They were treated well and fed in the army bases, many times begging not to be returned…. I can remember one time when an eight-year-old boy was caught…. It was obvious that, despite the fact that he had a goal, he knew little of the reason why he was performing it, besides the fact that he was doing what he was told. Many of the Israeli soldiers cried when they saw him… Would this ever happen if an Israli soldier were to be captured in the Palestinian territories?<br /> I am not justifying everything that Israel does.. As in every country and in every army, there are mistakes that are made and wrong motives at times. It constantly angers me to see the extreme settlers causing trouble and refusing to abide by rules and laws. I am ashamed, as are many Israelis, often acknowledging that this does not help anything.. However, most Israelis only want security and preservation of their country. As far as “stolen land”…this is complete rubbish.. Anyone who reads ACCURATE history books without an agenda can see that Israel did not take land and actually was willing to live alongside the Palestinians. It was them who declared war after indepedence was declared and them who fled from the country when Israel begged them to stay while the surrounding Arab countries planned to attack. It is also the Syrians who attacked Israel in 1967, spurring Israel to push them back and taking the Golan Heights… Israel has been provoked and prodded since its existance. Any land claimed was usually done as a defense initiative. I truly believe the West Bank belongs to Israel…. Does this mean that the settlers are right in their provocations?…No…. I think that, currently, it is too late for all of this squabbling and that the Palestinians should receive what they want..an independent state.. .despite the fact that they will never be able to support themselves… and that they certainly do not deserve it. Everyone should understand, though, that if they receive independence, Israel will know longer hold any responsibility….this includes aid, jobs, etc…… This also includes a fence/wall…Most all countries have something like this in some way, shape or form, especially countries that are enemies. This, of course, would draw international criticism.. However, the Palestinians cannot have it both ways. Either they give up their dream to be independent and agree to assimilate into Israeli society (while receiving the benefits of doing so) or they become an independent country. Note the word “independent”…which means no help from anyone else. </p> <p>I guess that I will end here…. I know that this is a little scatter-brained in structure and maybe not complete..but I really could write all day on this. Israel is one of the most misunderstood countries in the world..both by people who support in and by people who oppose it. It saddens and angers me to hear people talk about it and say what should and shouldn’t be done their when they have little or no knowledge about it other than what they hear or see on yahoo news or CNN. Without going into specific accusations towards comments that I have read here, I will say this: Regardless of what you may think or say and regardless of my failed and worthless efforts to provide some sort of brief viewpoint of what is actually going on in Israel, blind outside opinions and accusations will do nothing to change what Israel thinks or does. Israel will defend itself to the end.. Yes, there will always be debates about land swaps and prisoner swaps… But when it comes down to the survival of the nation, nothing that you say will change their determination to survive!….. Your opinions really mean nothing and will not change anything… although it would be nice if you could learn accurate information</p> I am not exactly sure why I am writing this, as I am sure that either no one will listen or I will receive a comment completely denying or breaking apart any comment that I make.. Maybe I am doing this more or less to relieve any anger that I feel from reading the garbage on this page. As an Israeli citizen, I have seen, heard, and felt all things first-hand regarding the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and, despite what you may believe, have seen both sides of the spectrum. For one thing, in regards to Israel’s motives, what is written on this site is completely wrong. Most Israelis, with the exception of the ultra-right, want peace, including the government. This is evident in the many arguments that are held in both the civilian level and government level. There is great unrest as to what to do with the military which is evident in the many changes of direction in talks with the Palestinians and peace proposals..especially in recent years. Many people and politicians would give land up in a heartbeat if they were assured that this would bring peace. However, Palestinian governments (both Fatah and Hamas) have given no assurance of peace for any deal…..at the most, an assurance of “possible peace.” This would be utterly unacceptable for any country. You describe Israel as a heartless country that cares nothing about the well-being of the Palestinians and as a ruthless military state. It is true that every citizen must serve in the army.. However, it graves all parents to let their children serve and every soldier prays and hopes that his or her children will not have to do the same. This cannot be said for many Palestinian families who teach hate to their children and have very little remorse to send them to die. In the army, I served as a combat medic. Due to the fact that I was rarely in combat, I saw both sides and was required to treat both Israelis and Palestinians. While on the Gaza border, it was a daily occurance to catch terrorists, mostly of whom were young children, who crossed the border. Some had weapons and bombs, while others were relatively unarmed. Many times, they were sent to be caught intentionally in order to test the army and see in the bases. They were treated well and fed in the army bases, many times begging not to be returned…. I can remember one time when an eight-year-old boy was caught…. It was obvious that, despite the fact that he had a goal, he knew little of the reason why he was performing it, besides the fact that he was doing what he was told. Many of the Israeli soldiers cried when they saw him… Would this ever happen if an Israli soldier were to be captured in the Palestinian territories?
I am not justifying everything that Israel does.. As in every country and in every army, there are mistakes that are made and wrong motives at times. It constantly angers me to see the extreme settlers causing trouble and refusing to abide by rules and laws. I am ashamed, as are many Israelis, often acknowledging that this does not help anything.. However, most Israelis only want security and preservation of their country. As far as “stolen land”…this is complete rubbish.. Anyone who reads ACCURATE history books without an agenda can see that Israel did not take land and actually was willing to live alongside the Palestinians. It was them who declared war after indepedence was declared and them who fled from the country when Israel begged them to stay while the surrounding Arab countries planned to attack. It is also the Syrians who attacked Israel in 1967, spurring Israel to push them back and taking the Golan Heights… Israel has been provoked and prodded since its existance. Any land claimed was usually done as a defense initiative. I truly believe the West Bank belongs to Israel…. Does this mean that the settlers are right in their provocations?…No…. I think that, currently, it is too late for all of this squabbling and that the Palestinians should receive what they want..an independent state.. .despite the fact that they will never be able to support themselves… and that they certainly do not deserve it. Everyone should understand, though, that if they receive independence, Israel will know longer hold any responsibility….this includes aid, jobs, etc…… This also includes a fence/wall…Most all countries have something like this in some way, shape or form, especially countries that are enemies. This, of course, would draw international criticism.. However, the Palestinians cannot have it both ways. Either they give up their dream to be independent and agree to assimilate into Israeli society (while receiving the benefits of doing so) or they become an independent country. Note the word “independent”…which means no help from anyone else.

I guess that I will end here…. I know that this is a little scatter-brained in structure and maybe not complete..but I really could write all day on this. Israel is one of the most misunderstood countries in the world..both by people who support in and by people who oppose it. It saddens and angers me to hear people talk about it and say what should and shouldn’t be done their when they have little or no knowledge about it other than what they hear or see on yahoo news or CNN. Without going into specific accusations towards comments that I have read here, I will say this: Regardless of what you may think or say and regardless of my failed and worthless efforts to provide some sort of brief viewpoint of what is actually going on in Israel, blind outside opinions and accusations will do nothing to change what Israel thinks or does. Israel will defend itself to the end.. Yes, there will always be debates about land swaps and prisoner swaps… But when it comes down to the survival of the nation, nothing that you say will change their determination to survive!….. Your opinions really mean nothing and will not change anything… although it would be nice if you could learn accurate information

]]> By: reader http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1772809 reader Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:28:45 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1772809 <p>SouthernDragon @ 34: I usually stay out of any discussion about Israel … but my mind’s getting made up lately, and yeah, that works for me!</p> <p>shootthatarrow @ 35: This is what’s striking me, too, that Israel is behaving like the perpetrators of the Holocaust. It’s amazing.</p> <p>We sure don’t need anymore war in Gaza. It’s sickening.</p> <p>Great maps, Siun! Makes the point brilliantly well.</p> SouthernDragon @ 34: I usually stay out of any discussion about Israel … but my mind’s getting made up lately, and yeah, that works for me!

shootthatarrow @ 35: This is what’s striking me, too, that Israel is behaving like the perpetrators of the Holocaust. It’s amazing.

We sure don’t need anymore war in Gaza. It’s sickening.

Great maps, Siun! Makes the point brilliantly well.

]]> By: TheKenoshaKid http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1772792 TheKenoshaKid Fri, 26 Dec 2008 22:55:02 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1772792 <p>The first map should say “British Mandate Palestine.” </p> <p>And Hackworth’s comment @32 is just strawman BS.</p> The first map should say “British Mandate Palestine.”

And Hackworth’s comment @32 is just strawman BS.

]]> By: shootthatarrow http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1772768 shootthatarrow Fri, 26 Dec 2008 22:16:31 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1772768 <p>Those four maps of what Israel is doing to Arab West Bank are worth many words. What the Israelis are plainly doing is expunging Arab Palestine.</p> <p>As for the plight of the Gazans Israel seems to be set on catapulting the propaganda that gives Israel the appearance of being so humane and reasonable and the good occupier that is long suffering when that is all a pack of lies.</p> <p>With the near exit of the Bush/Cheney regime soon to take place the Israelis appear to be gaming the American political situation fully with this coming new assault on the already wretched Gazans. Expect IDF to use air attacks,tank attacks and perhaps even some cluster bombs because surely the Gazans are a dire,direct and mortal threat to Israel’s “national security”. Sort of the same ploy Adolf Hitler employed against Poland at start of WW2. Good model for Israel to follow yes?</p> <p>Good posting Siun. Between you and Ian the light is being shined on Israel here at FDL. Stay with it.</p> Those four maps of what Israel is doing to Arab West Bank are worth many words. What the Israelis are plainly doing is expunging Arab Palestine.

As for the plight of the Gazans Israel seems to be set on catapulting the propaganda that gives Israel the appearance of being so humane and reasonable and the good occupier that is long suffering when that is all a pack of lies.

With the near exit of the Bush/Cheney regime soon to take place the Israelis appear to be gaming the American political situation fully with this coming new assault on the already wretched Gazans. Expect IDF to use air attacks,tank attacks and perhaps even some cluster bombs because surely the Gazans are a dire,direct and mortal threat to Israel’s “national security”. Sort of the same ploy Adolf Hitler employed against Poland at start of WW2. Good model for Israel to follow yes?

Good posting Siun. Between you and Ian the light is being shined on Israel here at FDL. Stay with it.

]]> By: SouthernDragon http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1772710 SouthernDragon Fri, 26 Dec 2008 20:59:17 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1772710 <p>The apologists for Israel can call me anything they like but imo the IDF is a state sponsored terrorist organization.</p> The apologists for Israel can call me anything they like but imo the IDF is a state sponsored terrorist organization.

]]> By: bluebutterfly http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1772705 bluebutterfly Fri, 26 Dec 2008 20:47:50 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1772705 <p>You are so right. There are 5 million other victims of Hitler that are never talked about.</p> <p>Even criticizing Bernard Madoff is being an anti- Semite. “The anti-Semite’s new Santa is Bernard Madoff”…says Haaretz.</p> <p><a href="http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1047173.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1047173.html</a></p> <p>The Isrealis detained, and then deported, the UN Rapporteur for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories. </p> <p><a href="http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/38480" rel="nofollow">http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/38480</a></p> You are so right. There are 5 million other victims of Hitler that are never talked about.

Even criticizing Bernard Madoff is being an anti- Semite. “The anti-Semite’s new Santa is Bernard Madoff”…says Haaretz.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1047173.html

The Isrealis detained, and then deported, the UN Rapporteur for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/38480

]]> By: hackworth http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1772687 hackworth Fri, 26 Dec 2008 20:16:25 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/bread-then-bombs-israel-still-likely-to-launch-major-attack-on-gaza/#comment-1772687 <p>Israel has a trademark on genocide. No other group is permitted use of the word. Not several million Native Americans, Poles, Romanians, Gypsies, or anyone else. This being the case, it is impossible for Israel to commit genocide on Palestine. Anyone who says that Israel commits genocide is an anti-Semite. Even though Palestinians are also Semites.</p> Israel has a trademark on genocide. No other group is permitted use of the word. Not several million Native Americans, Poles, Romanians, Gypsies, or anyone else. This being the case, it is impossible for Israel to commit genocide on Palestine. Anyone who says that Israel commits genocide is an anti-Semite. Even though Palestinians are also Semites.

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