Ignorance is alive and well and living in classrooms everywhere. If you need to know the cost of teaching stupidity, and most importantly of funding stupidity, creationism is a place to start. Rick Warren is a creationist, and clearly that qualifies him to give a benediction to the nation. Warren is slick enough to have sponged his website of the relevant text, but he has reaffirmed these beliefs in the last month.
Creationists are reliably anti-environment hit men. Global warming denial and creationism are often promoted by the same people. Obviously creationism has selective fitness, since it gains favor from rich elites.
Creationism evolves by what could be called "social selection." Variants that can secure funding and win court cases live, those that can't die. One reason that creationism may be so endemic, is that political appointees may get fired for talking about the truth.
The Scientific American article underlines the current strategy of the Creationist virus: create the illusion of controversy, demand equal time for unequal views, and declare that this is about "freedom."
Of course, the illusion of controversy is easy to create: just pay people to do it, like, for example, the Tobacco Institute, or declaring that Saddam was close to having atomic weapons.
It also helps if the President gives a prominent creationist a spot on the stage at his inaugural.
Not long ago, there were those that preached unfacts with unscience about the inferiority of those of African or Jewish descent. At enormous human cost, we learned that while it is impossible to eradicate such views, it is possible to debunk them and force them from the sphere of public acceptability. Obama now backs modern versions of the same infection: unscience that preaches that ignorance is strength, and that some people are not entitled to the same rights as the rest of us. It's time he realized that he isn't inviting Warren to speak at his private gathering, as reciprocation for being invited to Saddleback, he is officially endorsing, as President of the United States, the same views that, a century ago, would have been used to endorse laws against miscegenation, and to declare that "the negro" was inferior. Having lost that battle, the social selection of bigotry now has turned to other targets.
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cant we all just say: get over it.
the offense to gays is truly offensive, but i think, along with digby, that just maybe OB put the spotlight on this bigotry in a way that was actually a bit of juijitsu.
little rickie warren has to endure a much brighter spotlight about his bigotry and now is being asked to defend the indefensible to a broader audience.
the home-grown and nurtured bigots in OC and elsewhere are hearing more and more and they are dying off.
More silliness!
Please stop it.
I know that I will be attacked, but I never expected much different from Obama. I voted for him because the alternative was going to be worse than disasterous. I have told most people that Obama will be working hardest to show the DC Insiders that he is really one of them and not to worry. So far he hasn’t done much different. I think that he will take us to the same destination as the last admin, just more slowly and give us a chance to get a real progressive elected.
Obama putting creationists/bigots on center stage. Urgh
Seems Duke Cunningham is applying for clemency via BT’s links. Gotta love the Pardons!
this is my point precisely.. He’s simply delivering what he advertised: centrist, “post-partisan” politics. This is the change he spoke about.. an attempt (misguided, I personally think) to transcend the traditional partisan divisions in DC, and, in doing so, to provide more inclusive and responsive government to all. That’s the central tenet of Obamaism. He never said that he’ll promote the type of “change” we progressives want.
I am optimistic, though, that once he discovers how obstructionist the rethugs are prepared to be, he’ll very quickly abandon this approach and become a better Dem leader.
I hope some Obama’s pick of a pastor is no reflection on who he will chose for the Supreme Court.
The creationist theory is contingent on incest. Warren has equated homosexuality with incest. I’m confused, is he pro or con?
You don’t suppose..? The Warren Court Redux.
Excellent Post. Absolutely Correct. Will Warren be saddlebacked out of the Inauguration? Will Obama be shamed by the truths you expose herein and dump this jerk (these jerks)? Why must the science we were promised be put on the backburner? We’ve suffered eight years of lost time and moving backwards to appease superstitious religious extremists. Extremism is the color of the day. Obama has a chance to break the cycle now. The US has fallen way behind in scientific achievement and advancements because of religion. Why must Obama kow tow to ignorance and superstition at his inauguration? Its a new day. Cut this crap out now. Mr. Obama, Tear down this wall!
isn’t Rick Warren one of the leading advocates of “intelligent design” bs?
http://theophilogue.wordpress......ck-warren/
“Why is Obama Endorsing Creationism at His Inaugural?”
Jesus Christ, are you people as totally intolerant as you claim Warren is? Get over it. Obama’s not endorsing Warren’s extremist views. You know he’s trying to get people together but nooOOoo you can’t stand it. You can’t just STFU for two god damned minutes can you? You people make me want to puke.
Leftwing extremists are as bad as rightwing extremists. Most of the US lands somewhere between. You better forking start realizing that or YOU’LL BE OUT ON YOUR ASS JUST LIKE THE GOD DAMNED REPUBLICANS. So stop being so forking stupid.
this is simply too scary to contemplate. Maybe he’ll figure that being post-partisan means, oh, I don’t know, appointing one conservative and one liberal justice if he eventually has two seats to fill… ugh. this is scary.
No, it’s not jiujitsu. Obama is giving Warren a very high profile venue to present his extreme views as if they were mainstream. This is nothing more than an olive branch to the far right. As BearCountry said, this is exactly what Obama said he would do all along.
um.. are you sure you’re supposed to use the Lord’s name in vain?
art-less-man doesnt get it.
what OB is really doing is bringing the harsh attention to little rickie’s bigotry and requiring it to stand sustained scrutiny.
how do you erase bigotry–expose it.
I visited saddlebackfamily.com (why not .org?) and went to the FAQ page (couldn’t find it today). I was surprised (though I shouldn’t have been) on the number of FAQ’s on tithing. Why would Mr Warren need so much clarification on tithing?
Q.: Mr Warren, how many houses do you own?
Mr. W.: Well I don’t know off the top of my head, I’ll have to check with the committee. Oh, BTW I love the Gay, some of my best friends know the Gay.
With the number of dropouts already at 30%-you have to dig pretty deep but theis is the actual percentage nationwide-and the fact that state education boards-the ones who chose the textbooks-have many evangelical evolution deniers and who have the final word on science and biology textbooks, they must be taken seriously. Texas for example is one of the largest buyers of textbooks so those booksellers will set things up the way that Texas wants-intelligent design anyone?-and the rest of the states will in effect get these same textbooks. Already more than 60% of college freshmen have to take remedial classes because their HS did not prepare them for college. Now we have one of the true believers on the Texas board who will approve HS science and biology textbooks, I am sure that you can see what might be the outcome. ID in HS textbooks. When this crop of students gets to college will they then have to be totally retaught in science subjects due to the ultra religious who demand that everyone believe the same way that they do. The golden age of america is finished, now comes the downward slide into oblivion. The rest of the world is now getting further ahead of us, we the original inovators are being left in the dust of progress. Our future is written in the minds of our young, when Texas chooses its science texts, if ID is included, the fall of the american century is assured.
Maybe Jeffrey Dahmer will be picked as head chef for the inaugural dinner. You know, for the sake of getting people together and all.
if little rickie says anything extreme in the invocation, I will eat the text.
he is being mainstreamed and, yes he is getting added attention, but it is not acceptance of his views or his politics or policies.
obama is very smart and wise. i’m sure he knows what he is doing and it really isn’t our place to question the rightness of his actions.
“um.. are you sure you’re supposed to use the Lord’s name in vain?”
Now you’re going to play morality police? [edited by mod] I don’t need you or anyone else looking over my shoulder.
[mod note: Please do not insult other commenters. Thank you.]
“Maybe Jeffrey Dahmer will be picked as head chef for the inaugural dinner. You know, for the sake of getting people together and all.”
Maybe he can reincarnate Hitler too. [edited by mod]
[mod note: Please do not insult other commenters. Thank you.]
I don’t agree with you, peterboy. To illustrate the way I see it I like to use the example of racist rhetoric. Many years ago conservatives felt free to admit they were prejudiced against other races, but since then we have been successful at framing that kind of thinking as outside the mainstream, not acceptable in public discourse. Now conservatives feel they have to pretend to not be prejudiced, and I think that puts them at a severe disadvantage when trying to advance their racist agenda.
If we can keep creationist views outside acceptable mainstream discourse then that’s half the battle.
Who’s forking whom. Obama is a politician, and a Democrat at that, who apparently doesn’t understand that right-wing evangelicals will never come in from the cold and into his big tent. I call what he’s doing pandering. His idea of inclusion will be met with resounding silence from most current ReThugs in Congress.
as I understand it, OB has spoken out forcefully with words and with appointments in support of science. Steve Chu–the nobel physicist–is the first scientists and energy reality person to head the dept. of energy. no more ideologues, no more energy lobbyists.
that is real change.
i think there is one piece that is missing here. to challenge bigotry, one must actually challenge it. obama is giving warren’s views attention, but he’s not challenging them. that’s what one does to mainstream ideas - not to get rid of them.
That’s quite a load of hate and intolerance for this blessed season. Is there a program at Saddleback to rid you of your hate???
Santa’s sleigh is being pulled by a pack of dinosaurs this year. tell the kids the presents will be late.
I love this argument. I see it everytime the Democrats FU.
I think We won! come to see what you guys are talking about and what do I find here? A bunch of little whiners crying about Warren. Boo hoo. I hope you on the left aren’t as short-sighted and arrogant as those on the right were when they got in power. You’ll get a wake up call real quick.
ah, hell. just pass the eggnog.
it is jujisu, selise. he is letting the light of scrutiny and media exposure do the challenging.
Obama’s change is the same stuff Bill Clinton peddled. Its just like Clinton’s bridge to the future. Both plans involve the half a loaf whereby Republicans grab the whole loaf and shit on it. How did Dubya get away with stacking his admin. with the worst of Republican extremists at every position and one stinking lousy DINO?
Why must Democrats put Republicans in their cabinets? Its a bullshit deal. Its more of the same business of appeasing Republicans.
We already know that the Republicans are going to obstruct at every turn. I wonder if Obama really believes that he can get them to cooperate. Already Obama is showing signs of caving on the tax cut rollback. He’s caving on war. He’s caving on education. He’s caving on Saddleback Mountain.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
thank you. Now there’s common sense.
How the hell would I know? I’m neither a Warren follower or even a Christian. [edited by mod]. The greatest chance to undo 8 years of chaos and you’re crying about Warren. sorry, that’s just stupid.
[mod note: Please do not insult other commenters. Failure to comply will result in your comments being removed. Thank you.]
digby gets at it more completely, here:
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com.....thing.html
“Left wing extremists are as bad as right wing extremists.”
Wrong. Get back to us when left wing extremists are bombing Federal buildings, abortion clinics and roving bands of them are killing off brown people. I, personally, do not want to “get together” with such types and thereby give them legitimacy. I am disappointed that our new Democratic Party leader is. What is so terrible about pointing that out?
There is no logical connection between using Rev. Warren to deliver an invocation at the Inauguration and a purported acceptance of his views on Creationism. That is an exteme stretch of the imagination. It is this type of argument which discredits the more thoughtful blogs which one sees on this site.
Furthermore, why get so bent out of shape over a prayer to a deity who may well not exist? The invocation may be simply well-meaning mumbo-jumbo.
serious question: what are the differences you see between jujisu and a sell out?
Excellent points nippersdad. Right On. You speak a mighty truth.
a sell out would be putting a creationist in a policy position not offering him a spotlight with the scrutiny and the possibility that a few of his adherents would soften to OB policies.
thanks for the diaologue, selise. you always make sense.
I am not some troll or nutcase. I think OB has flaws but he is way to smart to give little rickie this slot cause he doesnt get it.
i’ll buy ya a drink, Stirling, if Warren “preaches creationism” at the inaugural event.
Obama graduated from Harvard Law. I don’t believe for a second he’s embracing creationism.
Time to move on from the Warren thing. He’s speaking, that’s the way it is, it’s a sad choice, there’s other bigger news in the world.
Happy Christmas Eve, Sterling and all!
My suggestion is: do what we do here in Canada: humbly ask a First Nations Chief, whose territory we are on, to give the blessing and prayer.
Works beautifully every time.
A little bit of justice, hey?
And if he can’t go for that, then how about a Quaker?
I guess the season of peace and goodwill just slipped a cog. Here we are on Christmas Eve slogging away at Obama. This is going to go on for his entire term. There are people who will never leave him alone. Why don’t we just start impeachment proceedings on January 21 and be done with it?
I wish all here at the Lake joy and love and warmth is this holiday season. Blessings.
Indeed. And that is what got my goat so to speak. I don’t participate regularly in the forum but read regularly. I was disappointed to see what would be the norm at Redstate.com.
More rhum please!
Hey Punaise, joyeux Noel.
We just swallowed eight years of it. We’d like to try something else. Giving Warren this platform endorses him and his views. Does Obama really believe in The Scientific Method or Does he believe in folk lore and fairy tales? If Obama had Richard Dawkins or John Harris speak, I would love it. Religious folks would raise hell.
This fact, demonstrates how far to the right is the zeitgeist.
There is a political canniness to Obama’s pandering to conservatives. It makes it harder for them to bash him… for about the next three weeks. Ultimately, all this sucking up will garner him no more gratitude than Halperin received for fluffing Drudge and his ilk.
A Quaker! That would be a wonderful policy statement after the last eight years! And, not coincidentally, a real slap in the face of Christianists nationwide; a two fer!
See no incest needed. However this passage does raise certain questions. Who would be likely to kill Cain seeing as the only other people on the planet were his parents who already knew him. And where does Cain’s wife pop up from? Is this the first instance of a blind date, i.e. going out with someone without knowing anything about them? And why would Enoch need to build a city seeing as only 3 of the 5 in existence were around to live in it?
The answer to these as well as many other questions is, as we all know, 42.
As I remember it, Nixon was a Quaker!
Probably least 4 properties in Orange County. One is a commercial building at 29881 Santa Margarita Pkwy, Rancho Santa Marguerita, CA.
Others could be held in corporations and trusts.
I hope you keep participating. We don’t always agree here.
PR
That’s just it, Genesis only mentions God creating one family tree (but that forbidden fruit tastes oh so sweet). Presumably, Adam and Eve spawned some other offspring who didn’t make the final edit.
(shakes head) Nothing is ever going to be enough for you is it? Are you [edited by mod] or what? Giving Warren this platform DOES NOT endorse him and his views.
I’m agnostic myself. Including Warren doesn’t mean Obama is turning into Jerry Falwell. Get a grip, dude. Take a few deep breaths. It isn’t the end of the world.
OMG! Did they excommunicate him?
Any way yuu look at it, given there is some validity to creationism, we are an awfully inbred bunch.
Yeah he was. The question is, did Tricky Dick sow any wild Quaker oats?
I’m willing to entertain the possibility that creationists are inbred.
Hey, Stirling
So, how do his well-received cabinet appointments to NOAA, etc fit with this view. Is it possible that–on this issue–we’re getting close to reading too much into the Warren thing?
OTOH, if he’s had his minions expunge anti-science material as well as anti-gay material it sounds like he/they know they’ve got potential political liabilities…
FunnyDiva
Artman: To some degree I agree with your comment. Keep commenting.
The amen corner comments get tiresome.
Mythic narratives aren’t linear in nature. Nor are they attempts to explain the universe. Rather they seek to explain how we fit into it. This is a very different goal. The first requires consistency. The second is a meditation on who we are.
don’t think either of us are trolls. but still, without some semi-objective way to tell the difference, i v strongly disagree with you.
lol. well, there is that.
Obama has proven he is focused, subtle and patient. Both of his presidential campaigns were superbly managed, organized, and executed.
Inviting Warren is a healing gesture, an attempt to bridge the gap, and very astute politics. Warren, his congregation and constituency now in the position of supplicants, Obama has made a gesture, and should they not cooperate (and put pressure of republicans in the senate), then Obama can sigh, and say, well we tried, and you refused.
The onus, guilt and responsibility are transferred. Obama has given Warren “enough rope”. Now Warren must proceed with care, and compromise or soften his position.
We may not like where Warren is coming from, but that’s done. Its where he’s being guided is more interesting. And that’s partly planned, and partly opportunistic; without the benediction at the inauguration, not possible.
Be progressive; Look to the future. Conservatives look to a idealized past.
How does inviting Warren heal us?
Insert Trig Palin joke of your choice here. It is, frankly, a mercy that that poor creature will never recognize what trash his parents are.
I agree !!
First and foremost ,Obama is a politician inviting Warren is a political ploy!!
New post:
Marcy in the weeds
“Conservatives look to an idealized past.”
Funny, the past few years their mantra has been to look forward, that the past is old news best not delved into too deeply as it is inherently divisive. Are we at the point already where it is necessary to bury our concerns about the recent past as well? Those who ignore history are destined to repeat it.
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
‘Cause I’m in need of some restraint
Thanks, Stirling: I agree totally. Speaking out is the answer, it’s got to become unpopular to use these arguments based on hate. It doesn’t matter what Obama’s intention was, speaking out is the correct response … unless you believe silence is transformative which it’s not!