Merry Christmas people, there is simply no good news here:
Median Price fell to the lowest since 2004. We’ve basically wiped out the second Bush term in home equity.
Rate of existing homes sold dropped to 4.49 million units, on an annualized seasonally adjusted basis. Give you an idea, that’s less than the rate of existing homes being sold in the south alone in Jul of 2007. It’s less than being sold in the West region alone in August of 2005. It represents a 40% decline year on year. It’s nearly the floor for home sales going back as far as the census provides data.
Moreover, we’ve had a "break down in seasonal pattern." What does that mean? Well if you look at most economic series, they have an annual pattern of peaks and dips. Filtering out that pattern is what seasonal adjustment does. However, when the bug hits the windshield, the entire annualized pattern can break down, in sales, employment, or other data series. 2006 was a bad year, but it still had a recognizable annual pattern, 2007 had a sort of transporter accident from Star Trek version of it. This year? A mass of dying flesh. You can see that on the chart.
To give you an idea, in the last two recessions, we have not had a break down in the seasonal pattern, 2000 and 2001 both had it, though there was a flat part in 2001 after 911, the normal rise to a spring peak reasserted itself, and the later summer peak was good news. We’ve killed the goose laying the golden eggs.
Prices cannot stabilize at these levels. We have not hit a bottom, attempts to enforce a bottom would require a thorough going regulation of the market with price supports and all of the trimmings. Doable, but probably not a good idea without some clear idea of what upward lift in value will make those price supports viable over the long term.
Now for the really good news. Since creation of new money depends on loans on the books, and residential real estate is a large chunk of that, it means there is further erosion of the monetary base. Bernanke, Captain Carnage being at it again, believed in the spring that banks were retrenching because of losses that had already occurred – previous deflationary expectations. Instead, the data indicates that there are still more losses to come, and while past losses are clearly a large part of the credit crunch – which can be measured in the spread between the rate that central banks lend, and the rate consumers actually pay – is that there is an entirely reasonable expectation of further deflation in core wealth.



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Thank you Stirling…I think. Sobering news.
Digg please
It almost makes me believe there is some kind of economic law at work.
When people don’t have money, they don’t buy stuff.
I’m still shaking my head over the idiots who think cutting jobs and driving down wages is the way to national prosperity.
Thanks, Sterling.
I will begin to understand this economic stuff just about the time it fades.
Cyclical patterns almost always swamp seasonal patterns.
The fundamentals: declining jobs, stock prices, house values, credit market conditions, big house overbuilding during boom, all suggest a trough (bottom) much lower than in past recessions. The chart shows that we are just back to prior recession lows. A lot more downside left.
What jolly holiday news… Actually, there are some homes that are in demand, at least in this market. They’re what are condescendingly referred to as “starter” homes, rather like the house I bought 3 years ago. There are 2 of us, so 1400 square feet on 1/4 acre works just fine. We even grow veggies in the back yard (the asparagus patch is just starting to come into its own…). Why can’t folks find them? Everybody started building McMansions with cathedral ceilings (impossible to heat or air condition) with a bunch of “extras” just to drive up the price. Ooops…
You have a couple of years to learn about recessions/depressions.
I think the drastically inflated price of housing over the past ten years has been a deep drag on the productivity of the economy. I’m betting on return to historical mean… which means approximately 1997 prices, adjusted for inflation and about 0.9% annual growth.
I think we may be approaching bottom for the SoCal housing decline. November sales are down, but part of that is due to a reduced number of business days this last November- when adjusted- it’s pretty flat…
Don’t know what’s going on with national figures but the numbers to watch are percentage of sales that are from bank owned properties as well as average price. Watch these numbers month to month- (October to November)–rather than year to year (November 07 vs November 08)
Forced sales may well cause home prices to bottom well below what you might think of as “equilibrium” in normal times. The more illiquid the asset, the greater the boom and the deeper the bust.
1997? I don’t think so. 02 or 03 maybe.
Lowering mortgage rates and discount prices on bankowned property will bring buyers into the market.
drve by:
D’oh!
Of course, you can’t sell houses to people who are out of work. Georgia’s unemployment rate is currently 7.5%, higher than the national average of 6.7%. (So much for the “all the jobs have moved South” argument…)
One of the (many) problems in deflation is that people hold off buying until they think the bottom has been reached. (Opposite problem in booms.) Speaking anecdotally, it takes about a year for people to recognize a turning point. For example, in the late 1970s I bought my NYC apt a year and +20% off the bottom. Everyone I spoke to told me I was nuts, as NYC coop prices only ever went down. I have several other examples too.
Marion – you can find lots of homes like yours where I live in Upstate New York – because our economy has sort of been in the s**ter for a long time, we haven’t had the huge building book that other areas have had. Which means that 1)the average size and price of a home here is still pretty affordable and 2)if someone really WANTS a big ol’ house(like, they came from someplace else and now feel the need for 3000s.f. plus),then they have to have it built for them.
How far is Binghampton from Rochester?
Unfortunately, down here folks got really, really stupid. Not only were they building McMansions, but the construction was crap a lot of the time. Us? Our house is plumb and tight and solid. Of course, we weren’t trying to impress anyone when we chose the house…
Well, depending on who is driving and which way they are going:
Rt.I81 to 690 in Syracuse to the Thruway (and depending on which Rochester exit) – if the DH is driving, it’s 2.5 hours. If it’s me – 3 hours, 15 min. :)
If it’s Binghamton/Elmira/Corning to I390 to Rochester – that’s a solid 3.5 hours and you really feel as if you are going ‘cross-lots”. Why? Do you have a trip in your future?
OMG. It must be Xmas. Not only the shaver commercials on my TV, but now we’ve got LazyBoy commercials.
I’m going to visit my relatives in Rochester from 12/25 to 12/31. We’ll have time for a day trip, which we enjoy doing together, but per your estimates, Binghampton is too far for that purpose.
You too? Egad — they’re EVERYWHERE!
this recession seems more like a fundamental restructuring than a business cycle. or maybe there is something weird about this one – that it seems more driven by consumers and less by cyclic production over capacity (as previous)
the more i try to figure understand the more confused i get..
Ye gods, wouldn’t that involve driving in blizzards? Or are Rochester and Binghampton out of the worst of the snow belt?
you want a neat day trip from Rochester – have I got the place for you:
http://nysparks.state.ny.us/pa…..?parkID=12
Letchworth State Park. The ‘Grand Canyon of the East” — three sets of beautiful falls and at this time of year, x-country skiing, etc. The falls will be partially frozen – gorgeous hiking. A nice easy-to-do day trip, with time left over for hot chocolate and a little shopping when you get back.
Recessions are always (post-WWII) initiated by consumers. The overproduction you cite is a consequence of that, not a primary mover. This one is worse because the consumer fundamentals I cited are MUCH worse than in past downturns.
Did you get my response on secy of labor in last thread?
http://firedoglake.com/2008/12…..nt-1770631
3-4 years during the big Phoenix housing boom….. if you wanted a house in a specific subdivision there was a lottery to hold a lot/home where hundreds of people showed up to get a home. Homes were selling over asking prices, people were buying new homes over used because of all the perks….. building farther out from the center of town……
Now those subdivisions are abandoned….. 1 in 5 homeowners have a mortgage which is upside down and we have one of the highest foreclosure rate after Vegas….
Now our cities are see the pain, with the reduction in values, reduction in assessed values and reduction in real estate taxes and now layoffs of city workers and shutting of city services.
We wouldn’t do it if new snow were expected.
Rochester is firmly in the snow belt – as is Buffalo, Syracuse and most parts of the Thruway. Binghamton’s weather is mostly effected by coastal storms; if something comes inland far enough to hit I81, it turns into a freight train, comes right up the interstate, hits Bingo and then usually veers off to hit Albany.
Been to Letchworth several times, including during my childhood in Buffalo. Probably wouldn’t do it in the winter. If we want some X-country, can do it closer. Also, most of the others aren’t as atheletic as I am.
I’m going to lobby for the Granger House in Canadaigua if we can figure out a time when it’s open and so are we. It is supposed to have the same layout as Locust Lawn, the grandest house owned by Historic Huguenot Street where I am on the Board.
http://www.fodors.com/world/no…..38424.html
zillow.com still thinks my house is worth the over-inflated price it wouldn’t even have fetched in say 2005.
Eli is upstairs!
The Next Obama Scandal
What’s zillow.com?
Yep- many problems- still I think we will see a flattening of prices in So Cal sometime in 09. The rest of the nation may be a year behind.
One of the advantages in being in the economically depressed part of the country is that it’s just bust without the boom. See TobyWollin @ 14.
Not going to do the it was 56 degrees & sunny here bragging as having to worry about Elmore driving from Portland OR to Seattle to do a show……. he tells me I-5 is clear and Seattle is melting…(hope so)……
an online real estate site that claims to estimate the sale value of your home – it’s just based on public record square footage and price/sq. ft. of recent nearby sales – a very crude tool.
People can’t afford to pay the utilities on those McMansions…even if they drop in price to the level of Starter homes.
Ah. Thanks.
La-Z-Boy just closed 20 stores, mainly in the Great Lakes area…but may be slouching along due to Levitz already going bankrupt.
A crude tool indeed. My house isn’t there at all, just the empty lot between old, established houses as it was 3+ years ago.
thanks for the reply re labor.
any reference to recommend for a survey type review of historical data for previous recessions?
One of them became the McCain headquarters in our town. Sad to see this empty showroom with like 2 people inside and a lot of tacky McCain pamphlets.
The recession is for the middle class the depression is for the working class. Neocons have developing a class war. They need the upper middle class professionals. Their business model is hold capital out of the system in safety and let the rest take the damage.
Biggest single assest for the not rich is home equity…that is devatated.
Next is retirement assests that is below a safe level for retirement.
On the other side of the personal balance sheet is debt…at an historic high.
Same on businesses equity to debt is a historical high. CRE is way over leveraged and in deep dodo…think of all those sky scrappers scraping to get or hold clients have to take huge losses on their balance sheets.
In 6 decades the US economy has grown exponentially so there is still plenty of GNP.
The disenfranchised is what is growing at record rates and continues to grow. Homeless, families frozen in debt working multi jobs. More people moving in together, sharing cars and resources.
The American dream is reserved for the connected. How many will get jobs…1 in 100. The employer is in the drivers seat and can demand more from workers.
The point of the post is there really is not wealth to tap anymore…it is the end of the bubbles.
Several years back, The Economist published a graph of the Case-Schiller Index (which represents the price of a constant house) adjusted for inflation back-calculated to 1890. What is most striking about it is that the line is, with small peaks and valleys, more or less flat (+0.9%/yr) over the whole range… with the exception of the period 1997-present. Therefore, it’s reasonable to assume that prices will eventually return to that line.
They may well swing significantly lower, for the reasons that eCAHNomics pointed out.
We are already at ‘03 and ‘02 levels.
http://www.synoia.com/restats/…..0Chart.htm
http://www.synoia.com/restats/…..0Chart.htm
http://www.synoia.com/restats/…..0Chart.htm
And unlike rwcole @ 8, I see no bottom.
zillow is bullshit. Their comparibles make no sense. For my home they compare condos with single family homes.
The chart goes back as far as the census bureau produces the number. As a raw number of homes, we are basically at the minimum for the US economy during the period. December will be, in raw numbers of homes, worse, and will mark the annualized bottom. The reason why the break down is important, is that the home annual cycle seldom breaks down, and has never broken down for this long.