You’re stupid enough to do the minion shuffle? Then, it’s always your fault:
Mr. Cheney said that the Bush Administration legally exerted the kind of authority found in Article 2. “We did it in a manner that I believe and the lawyers that we looked to for advice believed was fully consistent with the Constitution and with the laws of the land,” he said. “And there’s, I say, ample precedent for it. If you think about what Abraham Lincoln did during the Civil War, what F.D.R. did during World War II, they went far beyond anything we’ve done in the global war on terror.”
Regarding the difference in roles played by the outgoing and incoming second-in-commands, Mr. Cheney said that if Mr. Biden “wants to diminish the office of the vice president, that’s obviously his call.”
Passive aggressive much, there, Dickie? That boogie man schtick is so re-tread, dude.
Did no one learn anything from Richard Nixon? Besides the wrong-headed, legally and morally repugnant lessons Dick Cheney clearly thought he learned, I mean?
The minions always — always – take the rap, while the boss walks off into the sunset certain that he was right and the whole of the universe is wrong. And if he ever has a glimmer of belief otherwise, that wrongness will fall squarely on the shoulders of all those "lawyers we looked to for advice."
Paging John Yoo: big bad blame and scapegoat blue light special in aisle W.
*Is it me, or can all things Cheney be summed up with a line from You’re A Mean One, Mr. Grinch? YouTube from same.
Related posts:
- Cheney: Torturers Can Do No Wrong
- Laura Ingraham on “This Week”: Dick Cheney “Cuts Through” on Afghanistan Because “His Numbers Are Going Up”
- Cheney Refused to Release the Journalists
- Dick Cheney Doing His Part For the Employee Free Choice Act
- Was VP Cheney Sen. McCain’s “Not Available” Torture Briefer?





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so!
No.
Another case of simple answers… (h/t Atrios)
Cheney is simply repugnant. I love the Grinch reference Christy — humming that song when I see him on TV will help me laugh and tolerate my repulsion.
I started looking through the lyrics to pull a point of reference for the title…and I had trouble choosing just one line. *G*
I think the
line is pretty appropriate.
Thanks Christy.
digg
Actually, Dick Cheney learned a whole lot from what happened with Richard Nixon – which all focused on “we didn’t get away with it the last time because we were not morally bankrupt ENOUGH and we blinked when Congress said, “Boo”.” So, THIS time, they were totally morally bankrupt and when the spineless simpering wimps in Congress said, “Jeeze, we think you guys might be doing the wrong stuff,” Cheney said, “So?”
He learned his lessons very well.
i would love for someone to ask biden if he thinks it is ever acceptable to deceive congress and the american people in order to create support for war.
When confronted by any Cheney-Bush actions, I am always reminded of the line “just like the blind, leading the blind” by Mick Jagger.
Is it as freezing ass cold where you are as it is here this morning? It was 9 whole degrees outside when I ran my FIL out for a doctor’s appointment today. Brrrrrrr…
I’d love to see that question put to pretty much anyone involved in making any of the decisions along the way — meaning Congress, folks at State and DOD, anyone in the executive branch…
Yes.
And this has been another episode of ‘Short Answers to Complex Questions”.
It was 5 degrees when I left for work this morning – and that’s with the sun shining brightly. My sister in VA emailed me that she had 11 degrees.
I have to pick my FIL up from his appointment in a bit and get him to dialysis. I’m hoping we’ve at least warmed up to double digits by then. Ugh.
excellent point.
i was just thinking of biden because of his mind blowing hypocrisy – given his role in helping cheney deceive congress and us about iraq.
is it usually so cold now in your part of the country?
It’s a Protection Racket, plain and simple.
see comments in prior thread for details.
It’s usually in the 20s or 30s or warmer — not this cold. This is biting, and the result of a weird blip in arctic air dipping down this far, I think. We get this once in a while when the weather patterns shift — anything below 15 degrees here is pretty unusual.
I’m glad we put extra mulch down last fall for the perennials now!
2 below hereabouts. Whew.
They were predicting minus 20. Yes. Degrees. Not wind chill.
I see the Rethugs are rolling out their new handwringing concern troll team a la Eric Cantor about the economic stimulus package.
When will the anachronistic media actually press the right on what they would do and how that would solve the problem?
“We did it in a manner that I believe and the lawyers that we looked to for advice believed was fully consistent with the Constitution and with the laws of the land,” he said. “And there’s, I say, ample precedent for it. If you think about what Abraham Lincoln did during the Civil War, what F.D.R. did during World War II, they went far beyond anything we’ve done in the global war on terror.”
riiight! that’s why they lawyered up. and they knew they needed a court order for spying on Americans, too.
Bush trying to cover up the fact they were using illegal wiretaps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO4nPegXIco
liars!
Hilzoy had a fabulous concern troll smackdown at Washington Monthly — well worth a read. I’ll see if I can find it again to link it up for you.
Only the power found in Article One allows the players in Article two to carry out the directives of the deciders in Article one. No declaration of war,which has not been amended, found in Article one means unconstitutional anything by Article two clowns wrapping themselves in constitution garble .
This weekend seemed to be an assault on the spirt of Christmas by a battalion of grinches, right down to Connell the IT guy. I would rather they took to the airwaves in January since they pretty much soiled everything they touched.
Thanks for the thoughtful forum on the lake. In spite of the clowns, have a Great Holiday season.
It’s -10 degrees here with wind chill of roughly -25. On top of a weekend of snow. Actually dang beautiful if you don’t have to shovel it, drive on it or peek around it to see what’s coming atcha around the corner.
Here we go — here’s the Hilzoy smackdown.
big bad blame and scapegoat blue light special in aisle W.
LOL. Hilarious.
This has been nauseating me too. Glad to see this post. Saw Biden yesterday kind of laugh off what Cheney said and give a measured response. Wanted him to verbal rip-out Cheney’s throat. Joe stood his ground but when somebody is such a persistently aggressive lying asshole like Cheney, I just wanted to see an aggressive response.
I want to see Biden and Obama, Hillary and Daschle enter the House and Senate chambers, plant a huge American flag in the center of each chamber, and declare that they are reclaiming the legislative branch for the United States of America.
Mr. Cheney said that if Mr. Biden “wants to diminish the office of the vice president, that’s obviously his call.”
LOL.
Did anyone see the Moyer’s program on the housing swindle at military facilities? The number of ways these corrupt bastards took our money to give to their friends who ripped off the taxpayers, always to the maximum amount possible, just makes my blood boil.
I’m sorry if I just can’t see how anyone can do a worse job than BushCo, including the blabulous Mr. Cheney.
My heater stopped working at some point last night. I have a service contract with the gas company so I’m waiting for the repair guy. It’s some sort of sensor, it kicks on and the pilot lights and runs for about a minute then shuts off.
I may lose a day’s worth of pay but hey in the mix of things that’s not so bad.
Ick.
51 in The City Beautiful but the wind makes it feel considerably colder. Just took a walk in shorts which was not a great idea and made me look awful stupid.
That’s the line that says it all.
Can’t wait for “Cheney, The Musical.” Somehow there needs to be a wooden stake in the plot somewhere.
Per Cheney yesterday:
Per Glenzilla this morning:
The Democrats’ congressional leadership were a priori co-conspirators.
BRING ‘EM TO JUSTICE!
30 degrees in Austin this morning…brrrr.
And somewhere in an alternative universe, Dick Cheney’s Afterschool Programs turn out thousands of dedicated Lil’ Waterboarders.
You’re in NJ, right? That happened to me once and I didn’t have the contract with the utility and paid an unbelievable amount to have it fixed. Family up there say it’s 17 now.
Bood idea. But they’ll first have to kick out Reid and Pelosi.
Nah, bold and impervious! *g*
what about Joe The Biden?
ooo, Barbara — stay warm, Sweetie!(sending electronic sweaters to Barbara)We got about 8 inches over the weekend from the storm, but it was done by the afternoon, so we got our shoveling done.
The Democrats’ congressional leadership were a priori co-conspirators.
Yes. Yes they were.
And that would be a problem how? /s
i think the cold is worse when you are not used to it. good luck staying warm.
Thanks. You know, it’s funny how quickly we adjust to this icebox dealie here. Kinda the opposite of the frog in the soup kettle. No heat. Just add ice cubes. *g*
Yes I am in NJ and it’s 15 here. It’s a a small amount every month and my heater is getting up there in age, it came with the house when I bought it. At least with the gas company I have some recourse with the Public Utilities Commission if it doesn’t work out. With independent contractors it’s more of a challenge.
I’m not certain Glenn has that exactly right — because, per Lichtblau’s book and especially Gellman’s book, there were significant differences in the Cheney and Gonzales publicly claimed versions of what Congress was told and what members of Congress themselves said they were told. As well as what both reporters were able to dig up on their own via independent sourcing, especially Gellman.
When Cheney says anything these days, I always ask myself “what seeds of doubt is he trying to sow to save his own ass — and why?” Because dollars to donuts he’s not being entirely honest about anything when he opens his mouth. That said, I’d love to see a public airing of a lot of this and some questions asked by folks — tough questions — but I’m not certain we’ll get that for quite a while.
Do take a peek at Gellman’s reporting on this especially. I got the sense that on the WH end of things it was more about Cheney’s version not matching up with anyone but Cheney doing CYA.
We had that happen two years ago — our sensor went bad. If you have any electric space heaters, use them. I don’t know how they know it, but those sensors always seem to pick the coldest day of the year to poop out — we had it happen in our last rental house, too. (When I was 8 months preggers…and we have multiple electric heaters for back-up now as a result. LOL)
Thanks, Christy! I so agree with cutting the CEO pay/bennie ratio back down to 20 times workers.
A profound example of how manipulating framing is mis-used to distort reality and morality.
kinda helps explain all the bullshit kabuki we were getting from reid and pelosi last year – working to protect themselves while pretending to support us and the constitution.
i’d like to see them get fair trials.
Which we figured out a long time ago and why they all have to go—one way or another. Rahmbo would love to see Pelosi gone, he’s jonesing for her job anyway.
Sadly, I do not anticipate any kind of major housecleaning and justice in my lifetime. In my dreams maybe.
We’ve just made it all the way up to 18 deg. here. Wind chill is another matter entirely—wind blowing like a son of a gun.
MM—I hope you are staying warm while you wait!
I asked Santa for a Dick Cheney’s legacy doll for Christmas. Push the button and it slithers around the house snarling, then heads for the little cave that comes packaged with it, and just before it disappears, yells, “Go fuck yourself!”
You are a courageous/devoted woman….jeez. We’re in the 20s and I have not yet ventured out. Very proud of you.
And it’s Monday! Seems like all our utility problems happen late Friday night!
Answer to your question: yes. We are holed up in Fredericton, New Brunswick, waiting out a blizzard. Wind is blowing about 80 km, there’s a foot and a half of snow on the ground blowing hither and yon, and it’s about – 15. Oh, Canada!
I’m beyond even asking those questions. When Cheney says anything nowadays I just say “Bullshit.” Although I guess you’re a real junkie about such things and want to know the story behind the bullshit. And for us, what’s just as important is knowing which Democrats were in on the bullshit.
Honey, come to Minnesota and warm up! *g*
yikes. good luck!
Glad to see you appear…I had been wondering about you in that deep freeze. Stay warm.
Apparently, he did not give prior approval to torture and/or domestic spying. He did aid and abet the launching of a “war of aggression,” an officially recognized Crime Against Humanity.
He said Leahy ‘deserved it” or something to that effect? Jeez.
sure did. and as he said yesterday, he’s one of the people privy to the intelligence.
I just had this very weird thought(stay with me here – it gets a bit ‘in the weeds’): The whole way that Cheney, Gonzalez, et al. have behaved over the past 8 years reminds me a whole lot of what happened to my mom’s brain once she had her stroke and developed multi-infarct dementia. The brakes came off completely: This was someone who was very proper, very fair – all those social rules, etc. were meant to be followed to the letter (the whole ‘that’s what we rise above, Mr. Olnott” thing). Once she developed dementia, she started doing stuff like being abusive to people, saying horrible stuff, using language no one had ever heard before, etc. She used to take her clothes off in public and so on. All the rules were gone. I see what Cheney et al. have done to the country and the Constitution and the relationship between the branches as one long horrid case of national political dementia – they’ve ‘taught’ people that it’s OK to do that stuff – that you WILL get away with it because not enough in Congress seem to care enough or have spine enough to stop them or hold them to account. And the rest see that they ARE getting away with it. It would be a nice thing to think that Obama’s ‘change’ includes putting the patient on some sort of regimen so that the dementia is controlled and everyone recognizes the rules and that they must be obeyed and why — but with Cheney walking around publicly saying, “So” all the time, I’m sort of wondering how we can get this particular patient ‘under care.”
Reid, Pelosi, and the rest should either issue denials, or fess up. Greenwald is calling them today…should be interesting.
but it’s okeedokey now because they kissed and made up.
The continued existance of Cheney equals no accountability = no justice = no representation of the people = no country.
We were warned:
Geo Washington Farewell Address 1796
“”The very idea of the power and the right of the people to establish Government presupposes the duty of every individual to obey the established Government.
All obstructions to the execution of the Laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency.
They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation, the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels, and modified by mutual interests.”
So now what do we do about it?
18 However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people, and to usurp for themselves the reins of government; destroying afterwards the very engines, which have lifted them to unjust dominion. “
Oh my! Stay warm and safe — 80 miles an hour? Yikes!
Yes and cars know when the warrantee runs out, and bicycles rarely get a flat in winter, and mittens don’t get lost in summer….life is not bloody fair.
As for dirty dick the bloody prick the sooner he buys his six feet of dirt the better for the world. Fagan, Scrooge, Rasputin, Richlieu, Stalin and Hitler, to name a few, were pikers compared to him
by the end of 2005 it was clear that the law had been broken – so even if the dem leadership did not know anything until then (which seems unlikely), by the beginning of the 110th congress they were complicit in the cover up. very sad – would like to have some good guys in government to be rooting for, but there don’t seem to be many.
Christy – our family took a summer trip to Cape Breton Island and saw that most of the houses had two full front entrances – one on the ground floor and one upstairs on the second floor. They get a whole lotta snow up there in the Maritimes…
Hey, Sunshine -
Yeah, apparently cantor is the designated point man for this particular set of thug talking points. He’s here; he’s there; he’s everywhere. :-(
yeah. after my experience i started paying for that. I forget who my utility co. was. Probably PSE&G.
right.
Thanks. I hope that’s correct. Angler has been sitting on my shelf less than half finished for a few months now. Sigh!
This happened in Philly a couple times when I had an apartment there, and yes it was on the coldest nights of the season.
I have the space heaters from then, along with a stock pot of potatoes for soup on the stove. Instead of lemons from lemonade, I’m doing potato leek soup.
No no no it is only 50 miles an hour 80kil/hr!!
if these magots can get away with breaking the law because yoo wrote a depraved opinion saying they can then someone can get their lawyer to say it’s fine to rob someone’s house and that would be just as legal
I recall us having a discussion on whether their behavior represented their true convictions or an external influence that had leverage of some sort, e.g., blackmail, etc. Complicity certainly would explain their behavior. And, I suppose that the feel “honor-bound” to protect Bush and Cheney after having given their prior assurances and approvals.
But I do feel that I need to follow up on Christy’s suggestion regarding what Gellman says he found.
There was a time when we all thought something would happen. Remember Pelosi standing up and talking about subpoena power? Yeah. That worked so well for us.
These people are war criminals and the only way any kind of justice will be done is in the world court—but we didn’t want to sign up for that because we are above it all.
Jonathan Turley had it right when he said a couple of weeks ago that there won’t be preemptive pardons because, in essence, Cheney et al are double daring the new administration to do anything. It’s a safe dare on Cheney’s part. Not gonna happen. Not only will it not happen, it will be a rather LARGE stain on the concept of democracy and the rule of law that the rest of the world will most definitely notice.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. . . . . it’s. just. sad—beyond words sad.
Oh, what a sad story! So sorry your mom and you endured that rough patch. Uffdah.
Cheney et al got drunk on power. Literally addicted, I think. And yeah, when there are no consequences (and in their case, I doubt they woke up hungover each morning, vowing to give it all up even as they hurled into the porcelain privy), it mushrooms. Yeah, our very own mushroom cloud.
I think the failure of Congress to go after this fiercely and fully has contributed to this new culture of catch me if you can. Talk about modeling the ultimate bad behavior — and that applies almost equally to the perps and those who have failed to say, “The f**k stops here!”
Bush and Cheney never would have gotten away with their criminal conspiracies if Nancy and Harry hadn’t let them.
The lack of response to the crimes legitimized the acts which, imo, is more damaging to the country than the crimes themselves.
I like how Greenwald fleshes it out:
Boy that Murphy sure knew what he was doing when he wrote that law. /s
Perhaps that explains his adamance about “looking forward”:
I totally disagree with this. The Congressional “tsk tsk” approach to the rule of law has empowered the perps. Precedent has been set. Most dramatic, over-the-top example I can dream up at the moment is finding all the dead and dying bodies in German extermination camps and saying, “Well, that was then, this is now.”
Those who don’t prosecute the crimes of the past are doomed to be victimized by those crimes in the future. Our leaders are not thinking clearly.
Why doesn’t someone just ask the new administration coming in, if the crimes go unpunished because they were so busy looking forward, whether that doesn’t set a very unsavory precedent for the future?
Think progress has the “he said, she said” version of events up now.
I don’t believe any of them. Why should I?
Of course it does. I cannot believe that the Greenwald quote is serious. Sounds like the perps, et al wrote it themselves.
Yes.
The wonder setter wanted to go for a long, romping* walk in 15 degrees with a solid wind taking the chill down below zero. Properly swaddled, it worked out fine.
-
*Very few animals romp quite as egregiously as a happy setter.
37.4 in San Francisco…and my 12 year-old momma kitty just insisted on going out on the wet deck. In bare pads!
Maybe she needs a shrink!!
LOL
Barbara, I have been checking the St Paul weather….what I see posted is that you all are getting colder during the day. How unfair is that? Do the kids go to school on such a day?
not if sure if I’m allowed to do therapy with the person on my lap…..
Most often, they do. But the good news is that most schools here are now on winter break.
LOL..for sure. Yep, very gently.
Also need to be very cautious around Santa Claws.
Stay very warm… you can tell I am a seriously warm weather person myself. I am about to prepare to venture out. Thanks.
Thanks, hon!!!
I love that. Making the most out of a whoops. And, Potato (no e) Soup is nummy.
So, the Lake will have the pleasure of your good company today. As for myself, I’ve got a lot to do. Getting the house cleaned up for out of town guests tomorrow. I might use sitting here from time to time as a reward when I finish a room. *g*
PS, hug the flamingo for me.
Thank you, wigwam. Long ago I figured Pelosi took impeachment for Cheney off the table solely to CYA, as did most of the reading, thinking public.
Is there any chance of Reid and Pelosi getting knocked off their perches in the 111 congress?
I’m with you, all who were complicit (co-conspirators) in “Cheney’s Program” should be brought to justice….but I have little hope that it will happen. Politics over governing has ruined this country.
hee-hee
For some naive reason, for a long time I kept thinking that Nancy knew of something nefarious. Something that made her say that impeachment was off the table, and that once this administration was on the way out, she’d be able to play her hand.
Wishful thinking or just unable to grasp the reality of it?
so long as we hold on to our values and do not make excuses for any politician, even those with a D by their name, i do not think our country can ever be completely ruined.
neither.
welcome to the human race.
Thank you.
I have a habit of thinking too much. Maybe a trait I share with folks here. My little brain is always trying to imagine a reason existing for why things are beyond my keen. Coping mechanism, maybe.
The problem is the only nefarious thing that would stop Nancy from pursuing impeachment was likely about herself or her family. Being out of office would not stop the admin from blackmail, if that is so.
euuuuuppppps. 18 below, not 2 below. I knew it was too good to be true. Kinda like all those numbers about anything that BushCo fed us the last eight years.
If she were out of office, why would they care about any skeletons?
707!!!
no other comment from me required. *g*
First of all, she does not automatically leave when a new administration comes in, so she would likely still be in office. Secondly, perhaps what they have on her or her family is criminal conduct!
What a nice little hidey-hole we’ve got going here. Alas, duty calls. Make of that what you will! *g*
Couple of things….
He is using the ‘Royal’ We’ but is very clear on just who actually ‘presided/decided.
And, just Who? are(were), those ‘Key’ individuals on both Committees?’ and, ‘Is/was their Co-operation based on ‘Shared World/financial View’ or ‘Threat of disclosure’ of some interesting/embarrassing fact? (Cheney knows everything, he is completely plugged in)
Or; Was/is their support in response to an ‘Implied Threat’ re; National security and the continuing safety of ordinary American people made (made clear).
The answers to those questions would help determine who is a ‘good guy’, who has ’sticky fingers’ etc and, Who is ‘a follower’ of the Dark Lord himself..
Cheney is a dangerous, dangerous man, he has played the ‘behind the scene’ power game for decades and he holds dark secrets about a lot of things, So he is a scary dude, but he (and ‘friends’) are not so ‘untouchable’ anymore and that is good..
‘I presided over the meeting. We briefed them on the program, and what we’d achieved, and how it worked, and asked them, “Should we continue the program?” They were unanimous, Republican and Democrat alike. All agreed — absolutely essential to continue the program.
I then said, “Do we need to come to the Congress and get additional legislative authorization to continue what we’re doing?” They said, “Absolutely not. Don’t do it, because it will reveal to the enemy how it is we’re reading their mail.”
That happened. We did consult. We did keep them involved. We ultimately ended up having to go to the Congress after the New York Times decided they were going to make the judge to review all of — or make all of this available, obviously, when they reacted to a specific leak.
But it was a program that we briefed on repeatedly. We did these briefings in my office. I presided over them. We went to the key people in the House and Senate intel committees and ultimately the entirely leadership and sought their advice and counsel, and they agreed we should not come back to the Congress.’
Maybe so, but she’s certainly not the only one who seems okay with letting by gones be…
“Paging John Yoo: big bad blame and scapegoat blue light special in aisle W.”
friggin brilliant!!!
wow.
WTG Christy! That was simple, beautiful, eloquent surgical precision with a keyboard/pen!!!
For anyone who can answer since we’ve got a bunch of lawyers here…if the coming Admin. just lets it all pass by (overlooked/turning a blind eye) is that not a sort of abetting/joining in the conspiracy? I do not mean to overstate what I am asking, but if one’s duty is to uphold the law, what does it mean to choose not to do the enforcing? Any ideas?
-18 degrees Farenheit when my wife went to donate blood this morning in Marshalltown, Iowa.
This wasn’t Cheney’s only exercise of this in your face arrogance.
When he was allowed to submit a minority report in the Iran-Contra case which made everything the executive did just a matter of a different interpretation of the law instead of a complete subversion of the constitution and the will of the people and when the Democrats in the person of the Petain-like Lee Hamilton allowed incriminating portions of the final report of that committee to be suppressed so that Saint Ronnie and his criminal minions wouldn’t be seen as such by their adoring sycophant masses, Cheney and Addington (who wrote the minority report) knew they had found a path to ignoring the separation of powers and fuck the electorate.