Comments on: Torture Crimes to be Referred for Prosecution? Be Still Me Beating Heart! http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/ Firedoglake weblog Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:12:18 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: shekissesfrogs http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1769135 shekissesfrogs Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:01:25 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1769135 <p>They all belong to the sick party of neoliberals. Levin was posturing.</p> They all belong to the sick party of neoliberals. Levin was posturing.

]]> By: SonomaRus http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768687 SonomaRus Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:13:31 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768687 <p>Exactly so. I have a gut feeling that many of the higher ups were duped into complicity. They were “informed ” under sworn secrecy that torture and all sorts of nefarious things were happening. All of it would come out in a criminal investigation and at best they would look naive - at worst complicit.</p> Exactly so. I have a gut feeling that many of the higher ups were duped into complicity. They were “informed ” under sworn secrecy that torture and all sorts of nefarious things were happening. All of it would come out in a criminal investigation and at best they would look naive – at worst complicit.

]]> By: ThingsComeUndone http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768461 ThingsComeUndone Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:20:10 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768461 <p>Sorry Mary your 29 should be on digg now I hope.</p> Sorry Mary your 29 should be on digg now I hope.

]]> By: Hugh http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768459 Hugh Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:18:22 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768459 <p>I just don’t buy that Levin was doing us any favors waiting until the end of 2008 to issue this report on torture. It is 5-6 years too late. I have long since stopped accepting these yarns that Democrats had some long term arcane strategy that would some day explain their complicity and inaction. If the Bush Administration failed to follow up, Levin could have called it a cover up and resubmitted his report under a new Administration. He could have made a show of sending his report to the Hague. He could have issued multiple reports and turned them over to the DOJ only now as a bloc. This idea that Levin did it this way to preserve the option of prosecutions flies in the face of his actions on the DTA that Mary noted.</p> I just don’t buy that Levin was doing us any favors waiting until the end of 2008 to issue this report on torture. It is 5-6 years too late. I have long since stopped accepting these yarns that Democrats had some long term arcane strategy that would some day explain their complicity and inaction. If the Bush Administration failed to follow up, Levin could have called it a cover up and resubmitted his report under a new Administration. He could have made a show of sending his report to the Hague. He could have issued multiple reports and turned them over to the DOJ only now as a bloc. This idea that Levin did it this way to preserve the option of prosecutions flies in the face of his actions on the DTA that Mary noted.

]]> By: Mary http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768452 Mary Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:02:17 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768452 <p>Torture interrogations got the “Tipton Three” (of which Rasul, whose case is the one the S.Ct just sent back) to all admit to being the “previously unidentified” men in a picture with Bin Laden (we won’t talk about the inherent unliklihood that some of the very few survivors of the container killings - where evidence is being destroyed in Afghanistan as this thread is going on) Unfortunately, MI5 had to take about 5 or 6 hours and disprove those admissions that had been secured over the years.</p> <p>Torture interrogations from al-Libi got the admissions of Iraqi training camps, used as propaganda for the war. Disproven. </p> <p>Torture interrogaions got Arar to confess to his partipation in Al-Qaeda training camps. Disproven</p> <p>More than the right and wrong on the information, though, is the fact that they knew people like Kurnaz et al had nothing to give up, so in huge big aspects much of this was about the human experimentation features. Psychologists and intel interrogators don’t have such large groups of humans for whom no rules apply and to whom they can do anything very often. It was a Psychomengalian Disneyland set up, with all the satellite centers too. Old men with walkers, young children under 15 - they had the gamut available to them to play with their minds by imposing any kind of mental or physical conditions that they chose. And they could also kidnap and utlize family members for additional torture leverage. All, again, with no constraints and not reprucussions.</p> <p>But at least the man who handed out amnesty is ready to say tsk.</p> Torture interrogations got the “Tipton Three” (of which Rasul, whose case is the one the S.Ct just sent back) to all admit to being the “previously unidentified” men in a picture with Bin Laden (we won’t talk about the inherent unliklihood that some of the very few survivors of the container killings – where evidence is being destroyed in Afghanistan as this thread is going on) Unfortunately, MI5 had to take about 5 or 6 hours and disprove those admissions that had been secured over the years.

Torture interrogations from al-Libi got the admissions of Iraqi training camps, used as propaganda for the war. Disproven.

Torture interrogaions got Arar to confess to his partipation in Al-Qaeda training camps. Disproven

More than the right and wrong on the information, though, is the fact that they knew people like Kurnaz et al had nothing to give up, so in huge big aspects much of this was about the human experimentation features. Psychologists and intel interrogators don’t have such large groups of humans for whom no rules apply and to whom they can do anything very often. It was a Psychomengalian Disneyland set up, with all the satellite centers too. Old men with walkers, young children under 15 – they had the gamut available to them to play with their minds by imposing any kind of mental or physical conditions that they chose. And they could also kidnap and utlize family members for additional torture leverage. All, again, with no constraints and not reprucussions.

But at least the man who handed out amnesty is ready to say tsk.

]]> By: ThingsComeUndone http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768450 ThingsComeUndone Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:56:30 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768450 <p>Agreed the GOP is trying to stop Obama any way they can this will get worse once Obama tries to get people confirmed maybe this will convince Obama to play Hardball.</p> Agreed the GOP is trying to stop Obama any way they can this will get worse once Obama tries to get people confirmed maybe this will convince Obama to play Hardball.

]]> By: ThingsComeUndone http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768449 ThingsComeUndone Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:54:48 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768449 <p>Perris your Great! 43 on Digg!</p> Perris your Great! 43 on Digg!

]]> By: Fern http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768448 Fern Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:53:02 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768448 <p>Here’s what I think - they would block the appointment of anyone - I think they are trying to prevent the appointment of an AG because they are trying to prevent/postpone the inevitable investigations/charges for torture and whatever illegal activities they have perpetrated. </p> <p>At first I thought it was just Holder and maybe he was a better choice by Obama than some people seem to believe - but I don’t think that’s it.</p> Here’s what I think – they would block the appointment of anyone – I think they are trying to prevent the appointment of an AG because they are trying to prevent/postpone the inevitable investigations/charges for torture and whatever illegal activities they have perpetrated.

At first I thought it was just Holder and maybe he was a better choice by Obama than some people seem to believe – but I don’t think that’s it.

]]> By: ThingsComeUndone http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768447 ThingsComeUndone Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:52:36 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768447 <p>I thought Lokwoky said Comments drive up the Digg number or maybe they help attract readers?</p> I thought Lokwoky said Comments drive up the Digg number or maybe they help attract readers?

]]> By: ThingsComeUndone http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768445 ThingsComeUndone Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:51:37 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/torture-crimes-to-be-referred-for-prosecution-be-still-me-beating-heart/#comment-1768445 <p>Mary your 29 is on Digg:)</p> Mary your 29 is on Digg:)

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