Comments on: Plugging In for a Better Tomorrow: The School Bus ‘Solution’ http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/ Firedoglake weblog Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:01:46 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: cinnamonape http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768628 cinnamonape Sun, 21 Dec 2008 23:19:52 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768628 <p>Another point with school buses is to make them part of the ducational process, rather than merely transportation. When kids are on buses the time is “dead time”…used mainly for sopcializing, distracting those kids who are trying to read, etc. If one could incorporate some technology into the buses so that kids could review material for classes, do homework or “pre-work” on the way to school (e.g. a set of mandatory questions so the kids would hit the classroom up and running ), or watching a required video, then we might finally achieve the academic levels seen in other countries. That one to two hour bus trip would be productive…perhaps helping the students on the bus to more quickly do homework, etc.</p> Another point with school buses is to make them part of the ducational process, rather than merely transportation. When kids are on buses the time is “dead time”…used mainly for sopcializing, distracting those kids who are trying to read, etc. If one could incorporate some technology into the buses so that kids could review material for classes, do homework or “pre-work” on the way to school (e.g. a set of mandatory questions so the kids would hit the classroom up and running ), or watching a required video, then we might finally achieve the academic levels seen in other countries. That one to two hour bus trip would be productive…perhaps helping the students on the bus to more quickly do homework, etc.

]]> By: karenjj2 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768458 karenjj2 Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:18:10 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768458 <p>“The ‘cheapest’ path toward rapid change would be to put feedback systems into every car. Cost perhaps $50 per personal vehicle, times roughly 200 million, thus a $10 billion program over perhaps 3 years.”</p> <p>What are “feedback systems” ?</p> <p>Also I’ve heard on theRandiRoadesShow references to Willie Nelson’s biodiesel bus and that the conversion of existing diesel vehicles –cars, trucks, buses– is relatively inexpensive. Also, the fuel can be made from non-food sources; I read recently that algae is a promising biofuel source especially as carbon dioxide accelerates its growth.</p> <p>I think there are a lot of green answers underway; we just have to remove the dead hands of Monsanto, ConAgra and the oil corpse from government.</p> “The ‘cheapest’ path toward rapid change would be to put feedback systems into every car. Cost perhaps $50 per personal vehicle, times roughly 200 million, thus a $10 billion program over perhaps 3 years.”

What are “feedback systems” ?

Also I’ve heard on theRandiRoadesShow references to Willie Nelson’s biodiesel bus and that the conversion of existing diesel vehicles –cars, trucks, buses– is relatively inexpensive. Also, the fuel can be made from non-food sources; I read recently that algae is a promising biofuel source especially as carbon dioxide accelerates its growth.

I think there are a lot of green answers underway; we just have to remove the dead hands of Monsanto, ConAgra and the oil corpse from government.

]]> By: wmd1961 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768451 wmd1961 Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:01:54 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768451 <blockquote><p>electrical services options (think school bus powering a school fair, without the engine running)</p></blockquote> <p>Timeshifting? The charge in the bus’ battery has to come from somewhere - either the grid (why doesn’t the school fair just use the grid?) or the engine.</p> <p>natural gas plug in hybrid electric is a lot cleaner than diesel. It also taps into North American reserves.</p>

electrical services options (think school bus powering a school fair, without the engine running)

Timeshifting? The charge in the bus’ battery has to come from somewhere – either the grid (why doesn’t the school fair just use the grid?) or the engine.

natural gas plug in hybrid electric is a lot cleaner than diesel. It also taps into North American reserves.

]]> By: TobyWollin http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768379 TobyWollin Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:58:52 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768379 <p>A — the school bus thing is huge for rural school districts. Our school district is 600 Sq. miles. There is another one close by that is just as big; they had to cut out everything in terms of bus runs except for the one in the morning and the one in the afternoon. That means that teh little kids are being picked up at 6:30 in the morning and not getting home until 4-5 p.m. at night. it also means that any kid who was depending on the ‘late bus’ to participate in sports, music or getting help from the teachers after school…now has to depend on getting a ride home some other way.</p> A — the school bus thing is huge for rural school districts. Our school district is 600 Sq. miles. There is another one close by that is just as big; they had to cut out everything in terms of bus runs except for the one in the morning and the one in the afternoon. That means that teh little kids are being picked up at 6:30 in the morning and not getting home until 4-5 p.m. at night. it also means that any kid who was depending on the ‘late bus’ to participate in sports, music or getting help from the teachers after school…now has to depend on getting a ride home some other way.

]]> By: A Siegel http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768375 A Siegel Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:55:49 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768375 <p>Well, quite probably not.</p> <p>The ‘cheapest’ path toward rapid change would be to put feedback systems into every car. Cost perhaps $50 per personal vehicle, times roughly 200 million, thus a $10 billion program over perhaps 3 years. This would lead to roughly a 1 million barrel/day reduction in gasoline/diesel use along with some 1000s of fewer highway fatalities/year and fewer accidents due to safer driving. Thus, a $10 billion program that would save the nation $50 million/day in imported oil costs (About $18 billion/year based on $50 barrel oil) and easily $10 billion/year in reduced costs from fewer accidents / fatalities.</p> <p>But, there are leverage points that can make quick change. School buses, as per this discussion, are one. Another one, surprisingly, is to subsidize taxi moves to hybrids. Taxis average, roughly, 10 times the mileage of the average car. If you can get a taxi to triple its mpg (which can be done with a move from their normal sedans to a Prius, for example, 2+ times with a move to a Ford Escape Hybrid), that is like taking 6+ cars off the road.</p> Well, quite probably not.

The ‘cheapest’ path toward rapid change would be to put feedback systems into every car. Cost perhaps $50 per personal vehicle, times roughly 200 million, thus a $10 billion program over perhaps 3 years. This would lead to roughly a 1 million barrel/day reduction in gasoline/diesel use along with some 1000s of fewer highway fatalities/year and fewer accidents due to safer driving. Thus, a $10 billion program that would save the nation $50 million/day in imported oil costs (About $18 billion/year based on $50 barrel oil) and easily $10 billion/year in reduced costs from fewer accidents / fatalities.

But, there are leverage points that can make quick change. School buses, as per this discussion, are one. Another one, surprisingly, is to subsidize taxi moves to hybrids. Taxis average, roughly, 10 times the mileage of the average car. If you can get a taxi to triple its mpg (which can be done with a move from their normal sedans to a Prius, for example, 2+ times with a move to a Ford Escape Hybrid), that is like taking 6+ cars off the road.

]]> By: A Siegel http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768370 A Siegel Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:50:39 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768370 <p>Kassandra - It is talked about and there are different paths being pursued from greater fuel efficiency to biofuels to even consideration of embedded some solar cells into the wings to reduce liquid fuel demands.</p> Kassandra – It is talked about and there are different paths being pursued from greater fuel efficiency to biofuels to even consideration of embedded some solar cells into the wings to reduce liquid fuel demands.

]]> By: A Siegel http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768368 A Siegel Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:49:28 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768368 <p>Actually, there are many hybrid buses out there, and they are a real improvement. The PHESB takes this the step forward, not just recovering some of the energy from braking for efficiency but actually moving some part of the fuel load / demand from liquid fuels to the electric grid.</p> Actually, there are many hybrid buses out there, and they are a real improvement. The PHESB takes this the step forward, not just recovering some of the energy from braking for efficiency but actually moving some part of the fuel load / demand from liquid fuels to the electric grid.

]]> By: TobyWollin http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768334 TobyWollin Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:42:12 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768334 <p>The problem is that a huge percentage of this country is not reachable by mass transit, which always puts people in the 80% of the geography in this country at a disadvantage. They have no way to get to work except for personal transport.</p> The problem is that a huge percentage of this country is not reachable by mass transit, which always puts people in the 80% of the geography in this country at a disadvantage. They have no way to get to work except for personal transport.

]]> By: ThingsComeUndone http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768333 ThingsComeUndone Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:37:05 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768333 <p>So is focusing on mass transit as opposed to personal vehicles the quickest cheapest way to cut gas use?</p> So is focusing on mass transit as opposed to personal vehicles the quickest cheapest way to cut gas use?

]]> By: TobyWollin http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768332 TobyWollin Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:27:08 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/21/plugging-in-for-a-better-tomorrow-the-school-bus-solution/#comment-1768332 <p>here’s another shot from copenhagenize - I love these guys, really. Four cargo bikes seen by the poster in one day..all different uses.<br /><a href="http://www.copenhagenize.com/2008/12/four-cargo-bikes-one-day.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.copenhagenize.com/2.....e-day.html</a></p> <p>and, from their site:<br /> Copenhagenize.com<br /> Each and every day <strong>500,000 people ride their bicycle to work or school</strong> in Copenhagen. This blog highlights who they are, why they do and how it was made possible.</p> <p><strong>Forty years ago Copenhagen was just as car-clogged as anywhere else but now 36% of the population choose the bicycle. Copehagenizing is possible anywhere.</strong></p> <p>There are definitely places in the US that could produce the same sorts of results. Mike Bloomburg - are you listening, buddy?</p> here’s another shot from copenhagenize – I love these guys, really. Four cargo bikes seen by the poster in one day..all different uses.
http://www.copenhagenize.com/2…..e-day.html

and, from their site:
Copenhagenize.com
Each and every day 500,000 people ride their bicycle to work or school in Copenhagen. This blog highlights who they are, why they do and how it was made possible.

Forty years ago Copenhagen was just as car-clogged as anywhere else but now 36% of the population choose the bicycle. Copehagenizing is possible anywhere.

There are definitely places in the US that could produce the same sorts of results. Mike Bloomburg – are you listening, buddy?

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