Comments on: Elation to Confusion to Elation Again: The Obama Energy Appointments Roller-Coaster http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/ Firedoglake weblog Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:39:31 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Wordsmith http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767549 Wordsmith Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:33:06 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767549 <p>I’m with you. I wasn’t an Obama (more of a Michelle fan) and was slow coming over. He’s not in office yet and I’m growing weary of folks freakin’ the fuck out.</p> I’m with you. I wasn’t an Obama (more of a Michelle fan) and was slow coming over. He’s not in office yet and I’m growing weary of folks freakin’ the fuck out.

]]> By: selise http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767528 selise Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:04:05 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767528 <blockquote><p>there’s no downside to giving him a chance</p></blockquote> <p>ah, i think this is an important disagreement. the way i see it is that there is a tremendous downside to a temporary disengagement to “give him a chance” - right now, today, the parameters of the health care debate are being formed by hundreds of meetings all over the country. the insurance companies are and have been engaged - if we take ourselves out of the process then we can be sure that our interests will not be represented.</p> <p>i don’t expect obama to do it all on his own, there is no way one person can do that. if we don’t participate, if we sit back and hope obama will be our saviour do what needs to be done - then it will be our own damn fault when obama betrays our hopes.</p> <p>i don’t want to wait and then condemn obama for fucking up. everyone loses that way. i want obama to succeed and i want us to have the best health care system we can get.</p> <p>that’s my take anyway, ymmv.</p>

there’s no downside to giving him a chance

ah, i think this is an important disagreement. the way i see it is that there is a tremendous downside to a temporary disengagement to “give him a chance” – right now, today, the parameters of the health care debate are being formed by hundreds of meetings all over the country. the insurance companies are and have been engaged – if we take ourselves out of the process then we can be sure that our interests will not be represented.

i don’t expect obama to do it all on his own, there is no way one person can do that. if we don’t participate, if we sit back and hope obama will be our saviour do what needs to be done – then it will be our own damn fault when obama betrays our hopes.

i don’t want to wait and then condemn obama for fucking up. everyone loses that way. i want obama to succeed and i want us to have the best health care system we can get.

that’s my take anyway, ymmv.

]]> By: rwcole http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767497 rwcole Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:26:03 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767497 <p>I haven’t given up on Obama—he has yet to serve one minute in office. If he does nothing, then he deserves what he gets but there’s no downside to giving him a chance….HIS plan has a public component which he wants to see compete with private plan–if that happens- it’s WAR</p> I haven’t given up on Obama—he has yet to serve one minute in office. If he does nothing, then he deserves what he gets but there’s no downside to giving him a chance….HIS plan has a public component which he wants to see compete with private plan–if that happens- it’s WAR

]]> By: selise http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767495 selise Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:18:34 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767495 <p>i guess the way it looks to me so far (please note the “so far”) is that while there are ways universal health care (vs near universal access to insurance) could be approached (as your suggestion shows), i have yet to see obama move in that direction. indeed, i see millions of dollars being spent to undermine the grassroots organizing for single payer. that is bad news. very bad.</p> i guess the way it looks to me so far (please note the “so far”) is that while there are ways universal health care (vs near universal access to insurance) could be approached (as your suggestion shows), i have yet to see obama move in that direction. indeed, i see millions of dollars being spent to undermine the grassroots organizing for single payer. that is bad news. very bad.

]]> By: bluebutterfly http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767494 bluebutterfly Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:12:07 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767494 <p>The Clintons unleashed Monsanto on the world.</p> <p><a href="http://www.celsias.com/article/an-open-letter-to-hillary-clinton-from-a-wellesley/" rel="nofollow">http://www.celsias.com/article.....wellesley/</a></p> <p>OpEdNews has an article on Monsanto illustrating their accelerated efforts to gain control of the world’s seed supply.</p> <p><a href="http://www.opednews.com/articles/Raids-on-Seeds-life-itsel-by-Linn-Cohen-Cole-081215-45.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.opednews.com/articl.....15-45.html</a></p> The Clintons unleashed Monsanto on the world.

http://www.celsias.com/article…..wellesley/

OpEdNews has an article on Monsanto illustrating their accelerated efforts to gain control of the world’s seed supply.

http://www.opednews.com/articl…..15-45.html

]]> By: rwcole http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767492 rwcole Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:10:15 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767492 <p>I really have no idea what his game plan is- I’m just thinking of ways of approaching the issue that might work.</p> <p>Polls show the public is in favor of Universal Care- but they wimp out after the first half million insurance company commercials.</p> I really have no idea what his game plan is- I’m just thinking of ways of approaching the issue that might work.

Polls show the public is in favor of Universal Care- but they wimp out after the first half million insurance company commercials.

]]> By: selise http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767490 selise Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:08:13 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767490 <blockquote><p>If he concentrates on having the federal govt. take over the most expensive cases through medicare, he may buy off the insurance companies</p></blockquote> <p>is there any evidence that this is the plan?</p> <p>based on what been done so far (via HCAN, etc), what i see is a PR campaign aimed at us - to convince us to give up on signal payer - not to explain why a plan that is good for americans would be good for business.</p>

If he concentrates on having the federal govt. take over the most expensive cases through medicare, he may buy off the insurance companies

is there any evidence that this is the plan?

based on what been done so far (via HCAN, etc), what i see is a PR campaign aimed at us – to convince us to give up on signal payer – not to explain why a plan that is good for americans would be good for business.

]]> By: Elliott http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767489 Elliott Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:08:06 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767489 <p>egregious is up<br /><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/blue-america-look-how-far-weve-come/" rel="nofollow"> thanks to Howie</a></p> egregious is up
thanks to Howie

]]> By: bluebutterfly http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767488 bluebutterfly Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:06:51 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767488 <p>The production of ethanol steals the world’s food supply. It increases the price of everywhere.</p> <p> <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/bronwen_maddox/article4061354.ece" rel="nofollow">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t.....061354.ece</a></p> <p>The US Military is already planning for resource wars over food and water. They are planning ahead for 30 to 40 more years of fighting in other people’s countries.</p> <p><a href="http://www.the-gates-of-hell.com/us-generals-planning-for-resource-wars/" rel="nofollow">http://www.the-gates-of-hell.c.....urce-wars/</a></p> The production of ethanol steals the world’s food supply. It increases the price of everywhere.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..061354.ece

The US Military is already planning for resource wars over food and water. They are planning ahead for 30 to 40 more years of fighting in other people’s countries.

http://www.the-gates-of-hell.c…..urce-wars/

]]> By: rwcole http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767486 rwcole Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:00:42 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/20/elation-to-confusion-to-elation-again-the-obama-appointments-roller-coaster-when-it-comes-to-energy/#comment-1767486 <p>If he packages the reform as an economic stimulus measure designed in part to make american companies more competitive, he may be able to put the issue front and center. If he concentrates on having the federal govt. take over the most expensive cases through medicare, he may buy off the insurance companies who hate those cases like the plague- and would certainly buy off the docs and the hospitals who could look forward to getting PAID for those cases- even with a medicare discount.</p> If he packages the reform as an economic stimulus measure designed in part to make american companies more competitive, he may be able to put the issue front and center. If he concentrates on having the federal govt. take over the most expensive cases through medicare, he may buy off the insurance companies who hate those cases like the plague- and would certainly buy off the docs and the hospitals who could look forward to getting PAID for those cases- even with a medicare discount.

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