Jane addresses the problems with having Pastor Rick Warren give the invocation at Barack Obama’s inaugural on CNN at this hour.
Update: Jane spoke with Rick Sanchez who repeatedly asked why “the left” would have a problem with inviting Warren to speak at the presidential inaugural. Jane told Rick what has been noted repeatedly on these pages, that Warren is a bigot that equates homosexuality with incest and bestiality. Jane went on to add that if the president elect had wanted to be inclusive, he could have invited a Muslim or Jewish cleric, or a Christian minister that was less divisive.
I will add that if Barack Obama wants to invite different voices to a discussion, fine, but that is very different from having a known homophobe give a speech at what is likely to be one of the highest profile events in recent US history. That’s not a dialogue—that’s a signal.
A bad one.
What’s your take?
Related posts:
Spotlight
Jane! Looking good – love the blue
Zed, Way to go to Jane
Indeed, a great color for her.
crikey!
did I just miss Jane on CNN ? will video be posted shortly ?, bats eyes, smiles coyly
I don’t see a video. I see a pic of Jane in red.
But Rick Sanchez is truly an a** of epic proportions.
We will have the video later on.
whatta u talking about? on my screen, she’s in a red mock turtle.
I knew this would happen when they let a fat homophobe do the fricking prayer!
you noticed that too, huh?
I love condescension from an ignoranus….
jane was great. the talkin head couldn’t even spit out FIRE..DOG..LAKE the first time.
Thanks for the new thread. Hopefully the disrepectful sports and car talk will stay below with the manly men.
Must be those X-Ray glasses you are wearing! /s
Give me a break!!!! Every Christian minister in America that agrees with his bible, the book every christian is supposed to live by, BTW, you will have a problem with. Why? Because most every thing you want to mainstream as being “normal”, the bible is against. GROW UP!!!!
Jane, I think what you just did is very dangerous. I attend Saddleback and Pastor Rick has never said anything other than the act of homesexulaity is a SIN! Not that gay people are bad people or molesters or whatever you said that Rick Warren says about gays. He speaks the truth according to the bible, which is his job. I will pray for you and the people that are your fans to see the truth and not spread lies about a man that has done so much good in this world. You could spend the rest of your life doing good deeds every minute and still not even come close to the amazing things this man has done, for ALL people including gays!
I threw a sandal at my tv.
“firedoglake…a very well put together, clean good looking website” — Sanchez
We need to start some kind of web campaign… where people can make a pledge to boo loudly at the inauguration when Rick Warren speaks.
If the Obama team seriously believes that everyone will boo Warren (if enough people make the pledge), then they would probably re-consider whether or not they want Warren to speak and ruin the mood of the event.
Anyone want to set it up, get the word out, and let me know where I can sign up?
LMFAO!!! that and the roiling of the waters…
My take? Dull unsurprise. I predicted that, echoing ClintonB, that man will break our hearts. I now add: over and over again. And despite that, I’m still glad he won and still glad I voted for him.
Wow. I can’t believe how dedicated you are to fallacy. Logical fallacy. First of all, Obama BELIEVES marriage is between one man and one woman. PERIOD. Second, learn etymology and look it up in the Oxford English dictionary, not the abridged version either. Calling two men or two women “married” is the same, EXACTLY the same, as calling a man a “wife” or a woman a “husband” in terms of meaning. NOT TO MENTION that equal rights will never be truly attained because you are operating contrary to the religious scriptures of the largest religion in this country, even if the state and some churches allow it, people are spiritually convicted and will NEVER change. Lastly, as long as you have to fill out the name or description of your spouse, as wife, husband, or Steve, Jill, people will ALWAYS know that it is or is not a homo or hertero sexual “marriage” and will treat you differently if they are so inclined. Why not simply sustain and maintain the fight for equal treatment under the law instead of redefining a word?
Glad to see Jane on CNN, but I must say I was really disappointed at her commentaries. When will we overcome our biases in the way we see and receive things. Rick Warren has his ideas and propagates them, so does Jane. But what you believe and preach has nothing to do with how ‘relatable’ I should be to you. Obama simply called a Pastor to pray, shouldn’t we simply see it as that?
Jane,
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And if Mr. Warren is anti Gay and supported proposition 8, that is his right. Even campaigning for it is his right. Glad we are in a free country. I believe Obama being inclusive and not necessarily trying to please the left is what the President Elect of the United States should do. After all he is going to be President of the United States and not just the left side of the United States. We complain about the right and their self righteousness. Well this is the case of the left and its self lefteousness. Go figure.
Peace
selise, did you see that Gary Gensler was chosen to head the CFTC. He’s a Goldman Sachs alumnus and was an Undersecretary on the domestic side under Summers at Treasury. He worked for Sarbanes, probably on Sarbanes-Oxley, and this may be the main reason he was chosen. His record on derivatives appears mixed. He was for them but saw some need for regulation of them. He had something to do with a working group that may (or may not) have advised on the CFMA.
http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/rr3156.htm
So not a Greenberger, but not a Lukken either.
Do you also not touch the skin of a pig? And not eat shellfish? And not do any of the things banned in Leviticus and the rest of the old testament? Because that’s the only place there is comment about homosexuality — there is none in the New Testament which, last I checked, is the got to read for Christians as my pastor calls it.
If you want to give someone a break, why not try reading your bible a little more closely and begin with the scripture which says “judge not, lest ye be judged.”
My take is that Warren and his fellow cultists would be better off if they could beg out of doing this invocation. It doesn’t help their cause more than it hurts.
Jane, will you please, please, please use my argument on this issue, and it goes like this:
This is not a “marriage” issue, but an Equal Rights issue! The Americans who are against gay marriage need to be told they are at odds with the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution! It is a categorical violation of the Equal Rights and Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment for our government to confer one set of rights, privileges and immunities to one class of Americans, while DENYING that same set of rights, privileges and immunities to other Americans similarly situated! This is not only my opinion, it is a long-held legal fact and finding of court. Consequently, I predict Proposition 8 WILL DEFINITELY be struck down! Mark my words!
You’re making a mistake arguing the merits/demerits of gay marriage, per se. There is no such thing as “protecting the sanctity of marriage!” This is homophobic, discriminatory talk; but moreover, a blantant thumb at the Equal Rights guaranteed each American under the 14th Amendment to our Constitution. It’s an Equal Rights issue – NOT a “marriage issue.”
Show me an American who is against gay marriage, and I’ll show you someone who does NOT understand or care about the rights guaranteed each American under the 14th Amendment to our U.S. Constitution!
.r o n ron@denvermediaservice.com
homophile
ho•mo•phile [hṓmə fl]
adjective
1. advocating gay rights: supporting the rights of gay and lesbian people and appreciating their culture
2. gay or lesbian: relating to or being gay or lesbian
noun (plural ho•mo•philes)
1. gay or lesbian: a gay man or lesbian
2. supporter of gay rights: somebody who is sympathetic to gay and lesbian people and supports their rights
Microsoft® Encarta® 2007. © 1993-2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
homophobia
ho•mo•pho•bi•a [hmə fṓbee ə]
noun
irrational hatred of homosexuality: an irrational hatred, disapproval, or fear of homosexuality, gay and lesbian people, or their culture
[Mid-20th century.
Microsoft® Encarta® 2007. © 1993-2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
pedophile
ped•o•phile [péddə fl, pdə fl]
(plural ped•o•philes)
noun
adult with sexual desire for children: an adult who has sexual desire for children or who has committed the crime of sex with a child
-ped•o•phil•ic [pèddə fíllik, pdə fíllik], adjective
Microsoft® Encarta® 2007. © 1993-2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
How very unfortunate for all the people like Jane, that have exchanged the Truth for a Lie… Homosexuality is WRONG, no BS will ever make it right. I find it comical the way homosexuals, play the “Homo Card”, with terms like”Homophobic”, “Bigot”, “Civil Rights” etc, etc. It is obvious they are trying to validate their Deviate behaviour, and people like Jane, in need of friends, in need of their own validation, pick up the slack and rally along… Jane, square pegs, never fit in round holes, WAKE UP, do something to help these deviates change and not humor them…
DING! The things I do for love of Jane……watch 25 minutes of that toad’s show to insure I don’t miss her.
You guys who aren’t burdened with dial-up have life easy. :-))
Jane -
You looked maaaaaaaaarvelous, darlin’.
hey, i just love the new posters. i need me some bible talk.
EXPOSÉ: THE “CHRISTIAN” MAFIA
Where Those Who Now Run the U.S. Government Came From and Where They Are Taking Us
“What bound all so-called “America First” movements prior to World War II was their common hatred for labor unions, Communists and Socialists, Jews, and most definitely, the administration of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Vereide’s Prayer Breakfast Movement, pro-Nazi German groups like the Bund, and a resurgent Ku Klux Klan had more than propaganda in common – they had an interlocking leadership and a coordinated political agenda.”
“Not only was Vereide pro-Hitler, he was the only Norwegian of note, who was not officially a Nazi, who never condemned Norwegian Nazi leader Vidkun Quisling, a man whose name has become synonymous with traitor and who was executed in 1945. Vereide and Quisling were almost the same age, Vereide was born in 1886, Quisling in 1887. They both shared a link with the clergy, Vereide was a Methodist minister and Quisling was the son of a Lutheran minister. The Norwegian link to the Fellowship continues to this day but more on that later.”
“Another pro-Nazi Christian fundamentalist group that arose in the pre-Second World War years was the Moral Rearmament Movement. Its leader was Frank Buchman, a Lutheran minister from Philadelphia. Buchman was a pacifist, but not just any pacifist. He and his colleagues in the United States, Britain, Norway, and South Africa reasoned that war could be avoided if the world would just accept the rise of Hitler and National Socialism and concentrate on stamping out Communism and Socialism. Buchman coordinated his activities with Vereide and his Prayer Breakfast Movement, which, by 1940, had spread its anti-left manifesto and agenda throughout the Pacific Northwest.”
” Rockwell and Vereide shared something in common other than the same neighborhood: absolute hatred for Jews and homosexuals. “
“Vance convinced newly-inaugurated Governor George W. Bush to establish faith-based prisons in Texas, a move that was endorsed by Colson. Bush also permitted ministers to act as detoxification counselors without professional training and certification. In addition, churches were allowed to operate day care centers without state accreditation. Vance became one of the leading advocates of evangelical-run prisons in the United States – something that Colson, Bush, Coe, and the Fellowship all advocated. Vance also saw Satan as being behind Ouija boards and the game Dungeons and Dragons – cultural smears that would be extended by his fellow evangelicals to other innocent children’s icons like Harry Potter, The Wizard of Oz’s Good Witch of the North and Wicked Witch of the West, the Vulcan Mr. Spock in Star Trek, and Jedi Knight Yoda in Star Wars, all accused of spreading Satanism and the Teletubbies character Tinky Winky, SpongeBob SquarePants, Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street, Buster Baxter the Bunny from Public Broadcasting’s Postcards from Buster, and Barney the Dinosaur, all charged with promoting homosexuality.”
Nice job, Jane.
A nice fdl welcome to all the visiting whacked out concern trolls. How you doing?
Posted my thoughts last night on other thread.
Summary: It’s a PR SmokePiece by Obama. Token gesture to fundie/right.
In the meantime, Obama’s stated he’s rolling back BushCo Abortion/Women’s Rights decisions, BushCo Stem Cell decisions, and has stated he will champion LGBT civil rights as well.
Let Pastor Rick get a limelight so he can fleece his flock for further farthings. If his sheeple will fall for it and pay for his divinity, what do I care.
All I care about is the legislation, and governing of Obama. I think I’ll be happy with it.
I guess it’s good to call Obama on every thing . . . feets to fire and all that. But the dude’s not even in office yet . . . and the left is as virulent on him as the GOP on Clinton for a blow job.
Somehow, to me, it does not compute. But hey, it’s a free country, so far. *G*
And I like the fact that in general, the vituperative foul mouthed fem-left and masc-left (Ackerman was GREAT yesterday!) blogosphere has invaded not only MSM cable but also the general MSM. And THAT’S a huge paradigm shift in itself, so GO JANE GO!
I’m thinkin, Obama’s a grown man, a professional at his craft, he can take the heat. *G*
k.. is it just me or is there a control troll attack on the scale of D-Day going on, on this thread?
concern troll even
VERY NICELY SAID, GOOD JOB!
bullcrap.
There are a multitude of interpretations of the “good” book.
And many of the rules and regs are cherry picked.
So what’s the problem? Why is it that the liberal left that wants the “rights” of all to be honored are so hypcritical that they feel that they must attack this Pastor Warren? He too has a right..A right to believe in what is taught in Scripture. He has a right to preach his beliefs. But suddenly it is felt that he is a threat and it’s getting everyone on the left fired up. Poor Jane sounds like Chicken Little acting like the sky is falling. Calm down.. The left is wanting to push their agenda so hard that they want to bulldoze ANYONE who stands in their way. Well, folks that is immaturity at its best. If the left was so sure and secure in what they were doing and it’s correctness it wouldn’t be running to the media making a mountain out of a mole hill.
i’m thinkin they are lookin for a fight. we could just turn the other cheek as the christian’s say.
Hmm, looks like a good time to bring up recipes.
Oh here we go. I saw a news item the other day, evidently non-Christians can be US citizens now — who knew?
People who disagree with us have the right to state their opinion without being called trolls.
Rick Warren should be dressed down for being so, so, so, so very ignorant as to the rights afforded each and every American under the Equal Rights clause of our 14th Amendment to our Constitution! Rick Warren AND Obama should be fussed at for being so, so very ignorant regarding our Constitution and the application thereof re: “gay marriage.” Obama should be embarrased for his lack of knowledge of our Constitution and courts!
I wish everyone would STOP arguing the morality or lack thereof of “gay marriage” and START EDUCATING THESE IGNORANT FOLKS about the rights given to each of us under the 14th Amendment to our Constitution!!!
fed up with the distractions, r o n
who let the dogs out?
I want to throw my ruby slippers at Rick Warren.
-G
no, thanks very much for the heads up (was dealing with insurance adjuster and related). don’t know gensler but will be interested to see what i can find.
Stop whining…
I just watched you Jane and my legally married husband and I (two men from CA) thank you from the bottom of our hearts. I was raised by a Pentecostal grandmother preacher, so I know my Bible. If you believe in the Bible, you must take ALL OF IF AT ONCE, NOT CHERRY PICK IT LIKE THE RIGHT LOVES TO DO. The Bible speaks of slavery and polygamy quite freguently and condones it; that does not mean that we can “own” slaves and marry twenty people at once. My point: Times change and you have to change with the times, even the Bible.
That one bears repeating, so I am. Funny how often and aggressively overlooked that one is in all the judging of others.
Two of my other faves:
“love your neighbor as yourself”
“take the plank/log/tree branch from your own eye before trying to take the speck from your neighbor’s”
FunnyDiva
Sending extra love and good vibes to the backstage team today, what with all the new “faces” and all.
I get it. You all don’t like Sanchez because he pointed out the truth. You want divesity… as long as it is only inclusive with your point of view. What small narrow minds.
And shame on Jane for the name calling of Warren on CNN (and she called him a hatemonger – look in the mirror lady). She obviously has no clue about Rick Warren.
The soft hate is especially dangerous… far more insidious.
i’m with you. could i say that the ideas expressed are silly?
See y’all later when the waters calm.
Well done, Jane. I am extremely saddened with this decision by Obama and would hope that every progressive, fair-thinking person will register their profound disappointment and outrage to anyone who will listen. It is a disturbing sign that Obama is exactly what Reverend Wright said he was – a politician that ultimately does what is best for the candidate if it conflicts with the right thing to do.
While I’m not quite ready to launch a shoe at Obama, I might consider one of my Homer Simpson slippers.
Sad, indeed…
Jane. Thank You for being cogent and to the correct point in your interview on CNN. Your candor and tact got me to this site and to register to just be able to leave you this note. I plan to spend this evening reading through your site and the link provided. I do believe that Pastor Warren will be long forgotten in the great scheme of things, whilst others, like Harvey Milk, a nobody with a camera shop, and a simple dream, will be honored for quite some time. Peace, and in salutation. Nice to finally have found you and this site.
Or, as some around here like to say:
S
C
R
O
L
L
Thank you Christy for saying it just like it is! “Christians” are the followers of Christ and not the old Bible but the the new Testament. Christ came to Earth to teach us how to live with each other and be accepting of others. He never preached against anyone but the “Money Changers” when he was 12 years old. Other than that he was completely inclusive of everyone know matter WHAT as long as you believed in him and his Father!
Jane’
You need to read the Good Book (Bible) Leviticus 18-22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. You see were Rick Warren is talking about. You need to tell the gays that God still love all but hate the sin.
Mr. Hugh, on this I am in total agreement with ya!! *G*
In response to ONE of the more ‘enthused’ Christians above who suggests they will pray for us DFH’s, can I quote a verse I ’specially picked out for you?
Devil Makes Three-The Plank
“I won’t be praying for you so don’t be praying for me.”
Keep yer prayer to yerselves where they belong and grant the rest of us the sanctity to live our own lives unfettered with your choices and beliefs. You get the same from us.
Good deal!!! *G*
Welcome new posters! Of course you have the right to your opinions, just as you have a right to decide who you will marry. Please consider granting those rights to the people you disagree with.
The Pick and Choose Theory of Christianity
Yes, it is the equal protection clause, i.e. that the law and the protection it imparts should apply equally to all. What binds us together as a nation is not the dogma of some religious sect but the Constitution. It is to fundamentally misunderstand what an American is to confuse the two.
Calling smoking bad, and being a smoker doesn’t negate my comment. I may be full of BIBLICAL sin in my life, and still be able to categorize it. It IS a sin of the flesh because it is giving in to the desires of the flesh over those of the spirit. God believes we should forgo all worldy and earthly attachments, but allows us to desicate ourselves through forgiveness, because th flesh is weak. The sactity of marriage allows for the “sin” of sex because a procedure to procure blessing has been undertaken for the purpose of procreation, which is where the word marriage comes from, and if its two men, and two women, its IMPOSSIBLE to procreate and cannot logically be defined or labled marriage. Its that simple, trying to compare the gay rights issues to the civil rights issues of African Americans or women is offensive to both. All behavior is learned, even heterosexuality, and is therefore a choice, even the way we dress, speak, etc. Of course, I like the opposite sex because I learned to, the problem is that wanting to have sex is a sin because it is of the flesh, I can only consecrate it through the directions given to me scripturally in terms of religion. In terms of law, WHO CARES WHAT WE CALL IT, but why would we want to adopt a religiously rooted word that is exactly describing what is STRICTLY only between PROCREATING human beings (1 man 1 woman)
Rick Warren: But the issue to me is, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.
Steven Waldman: Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?
Rick Warren: Oh I do
http://blog.beliefnet.com/stev…..l-com.html
Anyone who wants to deny Americans rights afforded them via our U.S. Constitution should really be ashamed of themselves! Obama will regret openly and brazenly supporting DENYING AMERICANS, including some of his supporters, their rights guaranteed them under the Equal Rights Clause of the 14th Amendment! Didn’t they teach Obama that at Harvard? I’m quite sure they did – so what in the HELL is Obama doing supporting ignorant Rick Warren?
.r o n
yeahhhhhhhhhh – like serving water and donuts to gays…. how very christian!!!
God hates shrimp too!
Hugh, have I mentioned lately how much I luuuuuuurve you and how sharp you keep that razor you got from that Mr. Occam fella?
XXOO
FunnyD
One of the telling things about the founding fathers is that the exact text of the president’s oath of office is declared in the Constitution and doesn’t include the word “God” or any other reference to a divinity. It goes without saying that they didn’t prescribe bibles and pastors.
How is that Warren and the Christian right are not bulldozing gays by telling them they can’t get married and pushing for legislation denying them rights?
It’s they who are the ones getting in other peoples’ business. Not the left.
And you better not be wearing clothes of different cloths. That’s a stonin’.
I hope the new guests will continue reading on other issues as well.
how come i get zapped for feeding. dang.
i’ll tell the raccoons under the feeder tonite, but they ain’t gonna be happy. and some dog-fearin’ looper ran over our ‘possum last night.
merryxz
Ignorance is lack of knowledge, which you are sorely lacking. Now, it IS not about civil rights EVEN if you call it marriage, the forms, the people with eyes, will still see the person or read their name, or description as wife or husband and will know and if they want to discriminate they will, even if its called “marriage. Which is the same as calling a man a wife in terms of MEANING!
It is not the job of Christians to judge other people. The judge is none other than Jesus Christ himself. Before you advise people to read Leviticus and taking Scripture out of context, I invite you to actually read the entire passage. He (God) provided these rules because He will judge along these standards. Regardless of whether found in the New or Old Testaments, the Scripture CLEARLY states that homosexuality is a sin..actually an abomination. I’m just stating a fact. You can get mad at me for being a messenger but if you do, could it be because you have a problem with the one who sent the message?
You’re mistaken.. The pages of the Bible do not change.. In fact it states that it was Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve… get it right…
Your pastor has also said that it is the DUTY of a christian to face down evil and destroy it. If Homosexuality is a sin, then it is evil, no? And, if it is a sin, your entire church is dedicated to destroying homosexuality, no?
How can you fail to see that this makes a lot of open minded people with gay relatives very nervous? You think my “lifestyle” is evil and needs to be defeated? You have a right to your opinion. You don’t have the right to jam it down my throat, trying to destroy the evil. If you try, I personally pledge to make you regret your decision to act.
the name OF AN instituation is NOT a civil rights issue! People will still have to write wife, or husband, Steve or Jill, or be SEEN walking around together. If people want to discriminate they will whether or not you completely missapply a term.
What does the scripture have to do with our legal system?
Oh, right. Nothing.
No one is forcing a preacher to marry two men or two women.
There are two entities that both go by the name marriage. One entity is a state sponsored and regulated entity called marriage that congfers specific rights on people who claim to be married.
The other is a religious right called marriage that is practiced by many religions.
Folks are trying to allow gay people to have the state sanctioned, entity called marriage without doing anything to stop the religious entity.
Why is it that Christian bigots always try to dress up their hate-filled ideas with selective biblical quotations, almost always from the Old now the New Testament. What do you have against the New Testament? What do you have against that guy’s ideas? Why don’t you have the courage of your prejudices? Why do you feel the need to hide behind the words of others?
Dear Christians:
BREAKING NEWS: Biblical “law” does NOT, NOT, NOT trump our U.S. Constitution!!! “Biblical law” does NOT abrogate one’s rights given us under our U.S. Constitution! America has U.S. laws proscribing such discriminatory conduct, yet there the [edited by mod]…….ready and willing to ignore our U.S. Constitution and demanding that our government and all Americans abide by “Biblical law” instead. Sick…[edited by mod], uneducated and very sick.
.r o n
Ha ha ha!! Well spoken!!
I think it’s more a matter of wanting limelight. So he can fleece some more. It’s just business. The religon is vehicle to do the business. Let the 23% get all wound up. Obama gives Warren some limelight and later he says to the GOP and obstructionist Congress Crits hiding behind God’s Cloth-hey, I GAVE you Warren, what more do you want?
It’s the legislation that will count. *G*
When do I get to exercise my “right” to give the benediction at a Presidential Inauguration?
Wingnuts do get all mixed up when they try to fake it and converse about “rights”.
Evil is different than sin. Evil is the act of trying to usurp the power of God, in terms of taking or giving life, in terms of who guides your lfie, you or God. Sin is the act of allowing the flesh to satisfy its desires in favor of actions that would bring you closer to God
If you read my comment correctly, the point was that every generation gleans fromt he Bible what it wants. Those that truly say they go by the Bible NEVER go by the entire Bible, but only those parts that suit and/or are convenient. YOU GET IT RIGHT.
Then why call it marriage? Which is a religious term at heart?
Let’s not forget what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah due to man’s wickedness… they were destroyed.
The Christian right doesn’t believe in American democracy. They either don’t understand it or want to change the country to a theocracy. God’s Law trumps everything else.
This is my biggest beef with these people. Why do they think that God needs their help soooooo much? Isn’t is rather narcissistic to believe that God cannot take care of the universe all my himself?
And what about all of those books in the bible that Constantine took out because they didn’t serve him politically?
Would appreciate less name calling please.
Who do you want to give the invocation? Osama Bin Laden?
I really love it, You left loony hate mongers have so much pent up hate and anger and can’t use it on President Bush anymore So now your going to bash the man you put in office.
Well guess what he is making choices that have to be made in the interest of our Great Country, I admit you were duped but hey only the nieve get duped so live with it and even though I did not vote for Obama DO NOT BASH my President or President elect. Get a life lose the hate and prosper.
P.S. God Created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.
God Bless America and ****MERRY CHRISTMAS **** And yes you heard me MERRY CHRISTmas.
Citizen WarOnWarOff:
Who the fuck are you to define who is “disrespectful” and what topic is acceptable…if ya don’t like someone else’s take on stuff or their priorities either address ‘em or ignore ‘em but get that condecendin’, passive-agressive bullshit offa my lawn!
I’ll bet you dream of dressing in tight black leather chaps, with JimmyJeff Gannon flying from the open window into your Christian bed…
doesn’t matter. they are on our turf now. not a good place for bs.
I’m really disappointed with Obama. Who would have thought such an educated BLACK MAN would IGNORE our Constitutional rights and instead bow at the feet of pure, dee ignorance and discriminatory bias!
Obama has shocked my conscience!
.r o n
I don’t think the state should call anyone’s civil union a marriage, including heterosexuals’.
But Warren opposes civil unions for gays as well — as does the GOP.
If you read the scripture, Sodom and Gomorrah were not destroyed for being gay. They were destroyed for coveting after the Angels of the Lord. There is a difference.
I suggested in the prior thread to just get all those who go to the inaugural and disagree with this choice to turn your backs on him when he starts to talk.
You are correct about having someone’s opinion jammed down your throat. But as someone who is totally against homosexuality and will always feel that way, why is it that I must have your opinion shoved down mine? If I do not approve of your lifestyle I must be a “homophobe” HA!! I just disagree with it. So why resort to the name calling? A little childish, don’t you think?
May doG bless their peapickin hearts ;-)
Frank, I have to assume that you know NO well adjusted gay people.
Rest assured, we’re out there, and none of us feels like you can EVER separate the sin from the sinner. That is a euphemism to allow you to feel OK about jamming your ideology down other people’s throats.
Try it with me, and you’ll get the fight you seem to be spoiling for.
I am very disappointed by Obama’s decision. But I do not understand the feelings of disappointment in Obama. Obama never pretended to be a liberal or left progressive on many issues of importance to that community, especially some controversial cultural conservative issues: gay marriage and second ammedment are two that come to mind immediately.
Even in economics, if you read his campaign statements, it was clear he was explicitly much more centrist than Clinton and Edwards.
So, sorry to seem callous, but what did people expect?
What concerns me is, if Obama does want to reach out to the conservative “orthodox” and “dogmatic” Christian community (though I think most of them are heretics in the technical sense of the word, not orthodox or dogmatic at all), is Warren the best he can do?
Sadly, I think that Warren may be the best he can do, but if anyone knows different, please inform me.
I am not disappointed in Obama, because I never expected him to be a liberal left progressive on these issues, and in fact, on many other issues.
I believe the Bible to be true.. you seem to pick and choose what part suits you the best.. but in the end… we’ll see who’s right…
Still not really clear what God has to do with the secular US government.
My head hurts.
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
stick to yer guns bud.
From the Nation (Posner) on the problem with Rev Warren
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081229/posner
This isn’t just about his views about abortion and homosexuality. This is a Reverend Warren quote:
“Historically evangelicals and mainline protestants were all in one group. Along about the beginning of the 20th century there were some protestant theologians who started using the term social gospel. What they meant by that was you don’t really need to care about Jesus’ personal salvation any more. You don’t really have to care about redemption, the cross, repentance. All we need to do is redeem the social structures of society and if we make those social structures better then the world will be a better place. In many ways it was just Marxism in Christian clothing. If we redeem society, then man would automatically get better. It didn’t deal with the heart. So they said we don’t need this personal religion stuff” – Rick Warren, The Beliefnet Interview
So in other words, doing good for the sake of doing good is, somehow, sinful, because it isn’t good directed at achieving Christian redemption. Now, I’m a lifelong churchgoing Christian and I cannot even begin to say how offensive I find this quote. Most mainline Protestants accept that there are multiple ways for Christians to find God and achieve redemption… and much of Christian theological scholarship (outside of the evangelical wingnut set) for at least the last 150 years has been to clarify the relation between faith and good works (as evidence of Grace instead of a generator of it). This man’s words are divisive even among Christians and, in the context of a secular country, they’re downright irresponsible. In other words, this wingnut reverend is say, “Don’t serve your fellow men or your country unless you’ve first decided to serve my version of God”
Like I said earlier, Obama doesn’t want leave out people who leave people out.
New posters: so gay people want their legal right to marry. What’s it to you? How does it hurt you? Why are you entering their home essentially controlling how they live? Just curious why you think it’s your business.
Show me where you got your definitions. If it’s not taken literally from the Bible, how can anyone trust it?
I know that I trust NO ONE who is trying to force me to believe what they do.
Obama’s usually a marvelous politican, but he really has bad instincts when he tries to muck around with religiosity.
I am a bigot because I BELIEVE in equal rights for gay couples? Equal in EVERY SINGLE MINUTE DETAIL OF LEGALITY EXCEPT THE NAME??? Are you really so unread and uneducated that you can’t see that calling two men or two women married is simply INCORRECT?? This is why Obama CLEARLY said that it is between a man and a woman, because he is well read and well educated. Let the law say that every right should be equal and THEN when treatment amounts to inequality, let the courts change society by punishing those who treat gays unequal. I wo9uld completely support that. It is amazing how ignorant and passionate people are about the need to missapply this term!
True..Marriage is a God sanctioned covenant. God has already stated His thoughts on this. If they disagree with God’s view on this then they need to rethink “marriage”.
Lot didn’t give up his daughters to be raped, so there are consequences.
sex is a sin? wow – not even my old church taught that. course if they had all us kids would probably have quit when we hit puberty.
well, let’s see now… if marriage can only exist for the purposes of procreation, then i suppose staying married after menopause would be wrong? how does that work – do couples get a divorce at a certain age or does the woman have to report her menstrual cycles to church authorities?
I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone cares if same sex want to marry.
so it is against your religion, so what?
our maker will judge plain and simple, just as he judges those of you who celebrate the “sabath” on the “sundayeth”, I am not to judge your “sundayeth” even though the maker says you must keep the “sabath”.
so what is the differance if same sex marry, go on with your life, god will judge how he judges and neither you nor I will have any say in that judgement
okay – who sent the emails to the evangelicals to blast the lake??
NO, I do not chose and pick parts. I am simply discussing this issue and stating fact found in the Bible. I never said that I lead my life according to the Bible. One does not have to believe in the Bible to know its contents.
Hey, carltonanthony
welcome. sorry you’re jumping into what may get a bit heated.
From your comment, you sound to me like a thoughtful person of good will. Hope you stay awhile and get to know us…and comment so we can get to know you.
Best,
FunnyDiva
is the end near? i want ta be ready.
As I have often said, all religions have two distinct periods. The first is where there is some universal statement about how peace and love should govern our relations toward each other. This period lasts about a half hour. The rest of a religion’s history is consumed in whom to persecute, abuse, and kill because they don’t agree with this group’s particular version of the universal.
Wrong. It is not an equal rights issue, but rather it is a marriage issue.
I am not interested in denying equal rights to same-sex couples. But am vehemently against anyone trying to re-define what marriage is. Marriage is the joining of a man and a woman. Period, end of story.
I agree, i don’t think the state should have any say about marriage even with a man and woman. marriage is religious at heart and should be left there
Lots of strange new pups today. Zealots. I’m goin’ fishin’ with Raven.
Why should your particular view of religion predominate over all others? No one is forcing you to marry anyone.
They were destroyed because of the wickedness which included homosexuality (non-vaginal intercourse), bestiality….etc.
I’ll be content if he turns out to be moderately competent and reasonably non-corrupt.
I believe our Country was founded on God, Guns, Guts and Glory. that’s what it has to do with it.
Rick Warren BeliefNet Interview:
likening marriage equality to Incest, Pedophilia, and Polygamy is demagoguery, even if the demagogue speaks of righteousness
thanks for stopping by and Stay Classy
Sex is sanctioned in marriage, but biblically it is suppossed to be for procreation, again, I’m not saying this is what all people do, only those who are concerned with achieving a perfect union with God by denying all things that seperate the spirit from God,
love not, lest ye be loved in equal, nay, greater measure.
make love a thousand fold, not war one measly cubit.
love. what’s it good for?
pax vobiscom.
pay attention dammit
Thank You the truth will set you free, Pastor Warren is only telling the world the sin is bad but God love everyone.
Its not my view of marriage, its the HEART AND ROOT of the word
Perhaps you need to…
It only proves that the gay and lesbian community has to come out of it’s collective closet and show how powerful it is. However, the bulk of gay and lesbian people will never do that…oh sure, there will many who will and many who will support progressive candidates…but there has to be a new paradigm…or a new militancy…or gays and lesbians will always be at the bottom of the toilet when someone decides it’s time to take a dump. How many times in the last number of years have gays and lesbians supported candidates only to find out later something they’d rather not know about their candidate. Clinton first…on the military…and now Obama…it’s a pattern. And it only shows that supporting candidates will get the movement nothing…absolutely nothing.
I’m off too.
how ya doing ? and how’s your patient ?
I am a wife..A TRUE wife..meaning I have a HUSBAND. I have a marriage. No I am not entering into anyone else home forcing my beliefs. BUT I am not going to hear same sex couples parading around like they have a”marriage.” It’s not a marriage not matter how hard you wish it to be.
I agree. Marriage is a civil act, not a religious one; otherwise, why did I pay $160.00 to the state of CA to get married to my husband? No money went to a church?
what’s in a name?
oh, you makin me hot now.
no, it’s not, that is YOUR definintion
I have married wood to cement, I have married carpet to floor
YOU want to redefine the term, now that we have that clear I am sure you have changed your mind
(not)
I would say it is very near the end and yes it’s time to be ready. No joke.
You are so lost in your ignorance of our Constitution and law, you need two road maps and a flashlight to find your way out. Apparently, you don’t understand what Constitutional rights even means. Sad….so sad.
.r o n
bless yer heart buddy. you are a scream. thanks fer stoppin by.
If you paid attention to your use, they are not ALIKE things, LOOK IT UP IN THE OXFORD!
Uh huh. Sounds like you think about it an awful lot. You should go find a more constructive — or more pleasurable — outlet for those seething obsessions than this comment thread.
It is hard to believe the newsie would ask such a question with a straight face. This is a bigot of epic proportion. CNN/Sanchez choose to highlight the objection to a bigot and a policy of hatred as though nothing was wrong with the bigot or his hatred.
Sorry Walter. The news is no more.
Evil is Dick Cheney.
umm, you are truly confused. This has nothing to do with a woman’s cycle or menopause. It has to do with sex between TWO people who can procreate..meaning a man and a woman. Not two men or two women. Two men can have sex until the cows come home but no child will ever beconceived . The same goes for the women..and yeah, they can get donor sperm and a child can result. But did you catch the last sentence..they need SPERM. Ooops! Wow that must mean that a man and a woman were the ones intended to have sex.. Ponder that.
So you are basically saying that same sex marriage is sanctioned because it is not primarily about “procreation”.
Cause these babies need to fix things for God. God isn’t powerful enough to fix it himself.
I am going to put a proposition on the cali ballot for the next election.
Proposition Negate-all marriage is declared illegal unless you want to marry you pet goat.
but what about people who don’t share your religion view of marriage? do you think they should be denied the legal rights and benefits?
i’m not trying to change how you view marriage – what i don’t understand is why you seem to think (maybe i am wrong about this?) that your religious understanding should govern the legality of anyone else’s marriage.
Citizen RetirininFive:
I can’t, I hate ice fishin’ and it’s too fuckin’ cold here ta do that anyways (ice houses are for wannabe’s)…but if yer near warm water put a line in for me, Brother.
(((BT)))
kewl !!!
Can I have all your stuff ?
Don’t know why, other than WDVX is spinnin a version of this as I type, but I’m smilingly and delightfully recalling The Grateful Dead doing this:
Going to leave this brokedown palace,
On my hand and knees, I will roll, roll, roll.
Make myself a bed in the waterside,
In my time, I will roll, roll roll.
In a bed, in a bed, by the waterside I will lay my head.
Listen to the river sing sweet songs, to rock my soul.
*G*
I’m sick of people trying to legislate based on their notion of SIN.
We have this civil right, called “marriage,” which can be performed by an agent of the state, known as a “justice of the peace” or other similar official at city halls across the country.
According to the Catholic Church (and some other denominations), this is not a valid “marriage” in the eyes of God. And yet, they don’t (nowadays) go around trying to make wedding ceremonies performed by justices of the peace illegal.
At one time, it was illegal in many (most?) states for persons of different races to marry — and I am sadly old enough to remember the disgusting racist rants of some of my relatives who quoted SCRIPTURE to justify the laws overturned by the Loving vs. Virginia Supreme Court decision and segregation, too. All sorts of Old Testament references to stuff like the curse placed on one of Noah’s sons were used to promulgate this justification for racist law — it was utter lunacy, of course, but there are many people who don’t even know that part of the history of the religious right.
Some day, sooner or later, the quoting of Scripture to justify civil law which discriminates against gays will be seen as just as lunatic as what was spouted concerning miscegenation and separate drinking fountains.
I do so hope it will be SOONER, not later.
[In other news — a great progressive pick for the Cabinet — Hilda Solis for Secretary of Labor.]
goodlawsie. this is like a warmachtung sale.
Oh, I thought the Bible was the authority, but now it’s Oxford.
I’m so confused.
if you paid attention you would see they are exactly alike
but you have your statement, I have proven it wrong, your point is exposed find a new one
Here’s some breaking news for you:
“Civil Unions” do NOT, NOT, NOT provide the same rights, privileges and immunities as a legal marriage does. This is a FACT every American should know – especially those who believe a “civil union” is equal to legal marriage. Go ask any tax or divorce atttorney.
.r o n
wait. i saw him first. :)
What’s in a name? Plenty..which is why homosexuals want to have eceryone agree with them.. they don’t want to be called gays, homos or a multitude of other things. But they can’t be called married. I can call a a chicken a cow all day long but it doesn’t make it so…
You can’t be serious.
All I can say is if Warren wants to wrap homosexuals, committers of incest, pedophiles, and polygamists together he’d better wrap up fornicators, philanderers, and the lustful with them too because the Bible is very clear in grouping all those sexual sins together.
I’m so sick of this debate. In a country that accepts without question the existence of no fault divorce how can anyone talk of “the sanctity of marriage”. These people aren’t holding to a sacred ideal, they’re holding to what they’re comfortable with. Divorce is just as high among all sects of Christianity as it is with secularists.
If they spent half the energy they spend legislating morality on their own personal relationships they’d do three times as much for marriage. This debate is pointless. If you’ve committed and of the “sins” I mentioned above, which if you’re human you probably have, I don’t want to hear any more from you about “the sanctity of marriage”, just shut up.
But it is just your view. It’s certainly not mine. Your beliefs have no priority over mine. Your views of marriage have no more weight either. Nor should they. Again no one is telling you you have to marry someone of the same sex.
OT: Dow tanking since Bush stated he is considering “orderly” Bankruptcy of Automakers.
meerkatful now. not to take vain names in stride.
puleeze to remove shrews at door ;->
Hahahahahaha! Yee haw! Certainly some brains and reason, too?
Even Jefferson delete references to Christianity and edited it to read nature’s god, acknowledging a higher power, not necessarily YOUR chosen God.
sorry crc, my ongoing failure to never lay off the easy ones :D
Maybe they just watch CNN?
Yeah…I don’t really think so, either.
FunnyD
I was speaking metaphorically, Norske. I’m in Michigan and I don’t do ice fishin’ either.
No, gay couplesare not AT ALL about procreation, think about it in term of the action? The penis is meant to feel good, because it encourages procreation! not because its fun, even though it is, and I do it with my wife all the time. I have no problem gauranteeing equal rights to all, I would go to war to protect the rights of gays to live together, to be civillaly and insituationally treated the same as married couples, but DO NOT call it marriage. Marriage is about what God or nature designed to unite in efforts to procreate.
Shame on Obama, this is not “Change” we can believe in.
http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com
I am extremely offended by the choice of Warren. He is an ignorant and bigoted liar; he equates homosexuality with pedefilia and bestiality, and he preaches hate speech. Also, I felt he was unfair to Obama in the debate.
I am a caucasian 80+ year old woman, married nearly 50 years, raised in a moderate Presbyterian church, and I believe strongly in equal rights. While we do not care to interfere in their lives, I think the Christian right wants to rule ours.
When the Reverend Wright controversy erupted, I went back and read the entire texts of a couple of the sermons. At the very least, Reverend Wright was honest.
Lots of people here this afternoon are scared silly of gay marriage. I wonder why? Will one of you please explain how it could possibly affect you?
Ponder that.
2 beings do not a being plus a condition make,
no matter how vewy vewy vewy hard one may texttwist de laughage.
Later pups.
At first I was ambivalent about Obama’s Warren pick, but I’ve rethought my position.
“We can disagree without being disagreeable.”
Sorry, but Rick Warren’s been disagreeable for years. In fact, he’s been downright horrid. Giving a peace prize to a war criminal should have immediately disqualified Warren from being anywhere near Obama’s administration.
exactly. I don’t get how evangelists say gays are “imposing their beliefs” on them. Quite the opposite. No one is demanding that anyone become gay.
Perhaps a little love and acceptance would go a long way. Eh, gang?
You are more than welcome to spend the rest of your natural days believing I am going to roast in hell. However, when you expect me to obey our nation’s laws and pay my taxes and accept second rate treatment for myself (I’d have LOVED to join the Marines, but I refuse to lie about who I am) and my relationships (I have been in a monogamous committed relationship for years, but if I end up in a coma, my partner will have NO right to make my decisions), you are literally forcing me to accept your beliefs. I will not stand for it.
You are welcome to believe whatever you like, but the 14th amendment to our Constitution guarantees me equal protection. Are you ready to stand up and support my claim by supporting full equality for civil unions? Are you ready to support a repeal of DOMA? Are you ready to end workplace discrimination if Congress passes ENDA?
Keep your religion in your heart, your home and in your church, and out of my home and our government.
Actually God doesn’t hate anyone… he hates the Sin…
OT Retired Admiral Dennis Blair to be named as Obama’s intel chief.
How can I get all those preachers off my satellite teevee?
They’re scaring the kids.
Who drove the clown car up to the FDL gate?
BRAVO, WELL SAID.
Once again, I’m really not interested in focusing on the gay marriage here, because the political problem with Wingnut Rick goes far beyond his views on the one issue. This man has basically said (190 above, from the Beliefnet interview) that Americans owe a duty of service as citizens not to their country or their communities but to his version of god alone. In other words, taken to its logical conclusion, he’s arguing that secular governance, and, in fact, all sociallty conscious secular intent, is itself wrong. Social consciousness is meaningful only if it is for the greater glory of Jesus. Put another way, he’s outright advocating a theocracy, if not in fact than in concept.
As such, he directly repudiates Obama’s calls for an inclusive, diverse country, embracing a notion of Grace that is completely antithetical to constitution, secular government. This man does not deserve a place at the president’s side, even for an invocation. This is just deplorable.
just a little advice fer ya. round here we say “she hates the sin” if ya know what i mean.
So, you have never had sex that was not for the express perpose of creating a child. AND you have never masturbated?
That explains so much. You poor thing.Oh, and Yoda was a jedi knight, too, by the , ahem, Christain right thinks he’s Satan. You’d better be careful about the company you keep mr. jediknight
Dayam. Here I thought that Bible thingie was the Ultimate Authority(TM) to invoke.
FunnyD
Yeah, sorry, couldn’t resist. Won’t happen again…this thread…I hope…
Gay marriage…BOO!!!
Words have meanings that can be static or not. Marriage is one of those words that HAS NEVER changed, since Old English, when the language was first diverting from German roots. NOW aqain, I will vote and sign a law that saws you can sue the pants off anybody for treating you differently, but I will NEVER and 80% of Americans agree call two same sex people married, it is like calling a cat a squirel, and saying thats what I want to believe so I think everyone else who is in the majority is a biggot because they disagree with me.
Who are these masked people Tonto?
So this would mean older people could not get married since if the woman is in menopause she can’t procreate. Same thing if either partner was infertile, no possibility of procreation, no marriage.
The funny thing about this is that there are no such strictures like this in the bible. Instead it comes from Aristotle, a good pagan, whose ideas were introduced into Christian thought as “natural law” by Thomas Aquinas back in the 13th century. It is so bizarre that these people are defending a particular pagan view of marriage in the name of the bible.
Whoosh! I spotted that, then lost it in the sulfurous impregnating the Lake.
He’s doing well, but it’s tough. It’s shower time, as luck would have it.
OKAY EVERYBODY! TO THE SHOWERS! STAT!
The guy lives in a fantasy land.
Interesting.. because it doesn’t mention that in my Bible…
Oh! And Thanks for asking. We’ll get through this.
*waving arms*
ALL of this….
you just watch.
So call each “spouse” or even better “partner” regardless of whether hetero or gay
that was GREAT, Jane. you looked great and presented in your normal unruffled, articulate manner.
toooo bad it fell of ass between the ears syndrome and midlevel hack rick j, but
you did yourself, your site and the rest of us who love and support you PROUD!
And I thank you!
It WON’T affect me, I am merely against it because I know what marriage means and why it exists and something is being propsseed that contradicts that. I wouldn’t be affected if you called a cat a squirrel, but I wouldn’t let you do it, even if the courts or mayors, or councils, or senators passed a bill saying we are all gonna call cats squirrels, I would’t go along because it is INCORRECT
what’s vobiscom, preciousssss?
does it come in chocolate?
FunnyD
How can I pay attention dammit when the thread goes so fast?
rick s*
will have to defer to the medical folks here.. but i’m pretty sure that procreation requires a viable ovum as well as sperm. wouldn’t that tend to rule out women past a certain age?
what i understand you to be saying is that marriage and sex are only to be permitted for the purpose of procreation. do i have that right?
I am amazed nobody has posted the official definition of marriage as some people actually believe it is defined by gender, it is not, websters;
word web;
but there are those that want to change the meaning of the word and then go on to make believe WE want to change the meaning
bizarre but I guess it is how some people exist
what version ya got? i want ta see your source.
actually he hates the people who judge the sin
the kids? Hell, they’re scarin’ ME!
XXOO
FunnyD
Dollar tanking as well $1.46+ per euro. Welcome to the slippery slopes. W has gone and opened his fecking mouth again.
Reflects the continuing militarization of intelligence. No surprise then that every problem is always viewed in military terms.
WASHINGTON (AP) – The speaker of the House says grim new unemployment data heightens the urgency for the Bush administration to act to prevent “the imminent insolvency of the domestic auto industry.”
Great job Jane.
On other matters the WH is still holding the auto loan hostage.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/local…..6slug.cspx
Why do you care if other people are “INCORRECT”? Who made you the hall monitor of the world?
I’d like to expound on what you were saying in your post. I know that some very bigoted persons tried to say that there was a Biblical reson for persons of different races not marrying each other HOWEVER this was not ever found in Scripture. There was plenty of race mixing..Moses was a Hebrew but his wife Zipporah was of African decent. So those people you remember were just plain wrong. BUT It is CLEARLY stated..yep spelled out in words on a page, that homosexuality is a sin. An abomination to God. So there is a difference in quoting Scriptures on these two topics.
How about Calvin Butts?
THAT is freakin’ hysterical. Mind if I use that sometime. That was a great slam.
You mean like “I wear my religion on my sleeve like a Pharisee” types?
Ooops, that’s bad news for mega churches
Make sure you change the channel after KO too.
Those prison shows are giving me nightmares.
Funny what gets me to delurk. heh heh!
Wasn’t “military intelligence” once famously referred to as an oxymoron? Sigh.
you clearly do not know what it means, you have added addendums that do not exist, you are basing your entire argument on a complete fantasy
It sure is. Calling LHP! *g*
Again you simply don’t know your history. Marriage has meant and means many different things in many different societies. Even in Christian societies for centuries, women were viewed as property to be traded or bought. This is not the current view of marriage, at least not mine, although I can’t speak for yours.
How about screw the bible, koran and all that other bullshit that people use as an excuse
Whatchoo mean, Rachel follows KO?
How about 1 Cor 6:9 or 1 Tim 1:9-10 or Rom 1:26-27…
Please no your facts before you say the New Testament does not codem the sin of homosexualtiy.
What??? I don’t get it, sorry. Please explain. I’m new at this blog stuff.
Then why aren’t restaurants like Red Lobster legislated out of existence, eh?
They rate just as much a label of “abominable” in the sight of God, according to Scripture — and just as much scriptural attention paid to it, too.
And why aren’t adulterers stoned nowadays, eh? The Bible does not say “you MAY” stone an adulteress, but you “SHALL.”
my, you do know how ta be direct. don’t ya?
There are way too many social laws. The government shouldn’t tell us who can marry or what a woman can do with her uterous any more than they can tell a man to only use his penis the amount of times dependant on how many children he decides to have.
Russian gentleman: So who is to say what is moral?
Sonja: Morality is subjective.
Russian gentleman: Subjectivity is objective.
Sonja: Moral notions imply attributes to substances which exist only in relational duality.
Russian gentleman: Not as an essential extension of ontological existence.
Sonja: Can we not talk about sex so much?
You started off your comment talking about a penis just wants to feel good. Maybe so, but why is it that a penis ( which has no brain by the way) is able to control the mindset of so many people? Maybe it is time to control the penis. Which means stopping to think with something other than that..which means to think through who and what we are and what we were intended for. Your body part was intended for a woman..just like every other phallus out there. Stand up for what it was supposed to be used for.
1 I HATE the Right
2 I don’t care what the Right thinks
3 I know the Oxford English dictionary has kept records of all English words and slang terms along with ereferences to their first specific written use. The term marriage is AT ITS CORE about a procreational unity to establish a NATURAL FAMILY
4 I voted for Obama because he represents exactly what I think
5 Barak Obama said ITS between a man and a woman, not becuase he is a bigot, but because he knows it is.
6. I HAVE SAID COUNTLESS TIMES I would never have gone to war in Iraq, but I will fight for the equal treatment under the law of all people regardless what kind of mfaily they choose to have, but do not try to call a cat a squirell, its CRAZY!
7. When I speak of God, Spirituality, or reliogion, I am speaking in general terms, not ONLY talking about what I can do or what I myself believe, BUT I do know that IT IS BETTER for a person to devote herself or himself to God above all things and that if they can pull it off in the extremest sense of denial of the flesh, then I believe they will achieve enlightenment, the exact same as the buddhist monk.
8. Sex in marriage between a man and a woman should be done without birth control, and after the specific act of asking for God’s blessing in order for it to be Biblicaly approved of. Sex with a condom is probably not the way God created us to have sex,
9 I don’t believe God is sending anyone to HELL for being Gay, I DO believe he wants you to follow the commandment “love your neighbor” which is why I will fight for the freedom of all, but YOU simply cannot call it marriage because it is exactly not!
There seems to be a shortage of Christians who comprehend the part about love and forgiveness that Christ spoke of so much. I’ve never met a preacher who didn’t drive the nicest car in the parking lot. What about the “Thou shall not KILL” commandment. Having said that, I don’t know how Obama can find a “Pastor” to give the invocation who is not objectionable in some way.
Let Obama do it his way and trust in the fact that he has the potential to restore the honor, integrity and intelligence that has been lacking in our leadership for so long.
Great job, Jane. Christy beat me to the shellfish and pigs, and I don’t even want to go there with polygamy and incest …
We must separate church and state – the majority doesn’t win when the majority wants to limit rights. Get the state out of defining a religious convention (marriage), and just have all civil marriages the same (for any two adults, without limits based upon religious beliefs).
Lotta trolls – way to bring in the new readers, Jane. Wonder if we’ll see any of them again?
By the way, does anyone really thing the government defines their marriage for them? “We don’t need no piece of paper from the city hall, keeping us tied and true…”
hey, what version ya readin from there?
might as well be, it’s all bullshit anyway
No, not Rachel. I heart her so.
The scary prison shows that teach you how to make a weapon out of coffee lids.
you left a period off after number 9
Rachel Maddow is on after KO. Not to be missed!
you must watch the late version
Websters is based on current USE, I am talking about root and heart, therefore use Oxford, the original dictionary, its really old, is rooted in Oxford England, and is considered the definitive dictionary by English professors and authors worldwide
Ultimately He is the Judge.
Not to mention the fact that marriages were taking place all over the world, even in places where people had never heard of the “Bible.”
Buddhists marry, and there are Hindu wedding ceremonies. But none of these folks take their cues from “scripture.”
Gee, I guess they are not “really” married! ;-)
Do mudbugs count?
They are tonto-locos.
you hope
So what’s wrong with incest?
We’re talking Paul, right? Not Jesus. Paul has some pretty obvious problems with dealing with his own homosexual tendencies.
typical Raven… you try to mis-represent the Bible to defend your view, but then when corrected you say ’screw the bible’. Stay outta the kitchen if you can’t take the heat.
Those cities WERE destroyed for the out of control sin which HOMOSEXUALITY was a major part of. The people were so caught up in their homosexual ways that they even approached the Angels to have sex with them. Those Angels were sent to remove Lot ( a decent, God fearing man) and his family so that they would not be destroyed. When Lot’s wife turned around to look at the cities as they were being destroyed she was turned into a pillar of salt. God is not playing. He is not going to change his mind. People need to read the entire Scripture before twisting it or trying to prove their point.
I agree!!
Get the state out of it entirely
LOL!!!
Is that from Woody Allen’s “Love and Death” or does it just sound like it could have come from that movie?
No.. I know.. not hope.
Bestiality would be ok if you were sure that the beast concurred-
i thought i told ya about the gender thingy.
Barking up the wrong tree there, sister (or brother). Christy nos her facts.
All scripture is God inspired. Including Paul’s words.
You may not agree, but that doesn’t make it not so.
All mariage cerremonies worldwide are historically between a man and a woman, all religions have specific directions for marriages written in their holy texts, and sex, and NONE advocate same sex.
Tula upstairs “Go for the Grinch”
Exactly..
please be kind. they mean well.
never miss Rachel. the prison doc blocks show all the scariest prisoners, fights and beatdowns. wake up in cold sweat nightmares. they’ve been catapultin’ the same shows for a good while now.
Rick Warren buddy buddy with Sarah Palin:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..25420.html
Sounds like we might as well have Sarah Palin herself give the invocation. This is lunacy.
at what point in history does the root and heart begin?
right after the birth of jesus?
right after god made the world in seven days?
how does this apply to the oxford dictionary?
and what is the problem that god has with the physical act of friction with one or more persons?
Dang! Homosexuality must be more fun than I thought.
The Bible’s not big on homosexuality- at least between men…the issue is whether our laws should come from the Bible.
Jane, you are right.
I have always believed that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was INHOSPITALITY and EXPLOITATION of the “stranger,” those deemed to be “other.”
And gang rape, whether hetero- or homosexual in nature is nothing if not brutality toward the easily exploitable “other.”
That would leave out post menapausal women and men with prostrate issues or certain cancers. Also, some steriod medications make men infertile
Oh, and extreme anorexia can make even young women infertile until they gain some weight back.
None of these people are entitled to be married?
Wow, that’s harsh.
There is so little love in the world, why would any person of good will want to limit access to an institution that provides a suportive framework for love?
bless yer heart. let’s do a one on one sometime. name yer version.
That’s kinda odd as Paul says in places- “Hell- I may be wrong but here’s how it seems ta me”.
A lot of the Bible prohibitions are about blood and semen- which the authors were a bit goofy about.
Breaking News: The Bible and a dictionary does NOT, NOT, NOT trump our rights afforded us under our U.S. Constitution!
Pure foolish talk……citing dictionaries in support of violating Americans’ constitutional rights!!
Disgustingly ignorant.
.r o n
How about my own pastor, who is a naturlized US citizen from Norther Ireland and has walked the talk in ways these bible-thumpers can’t even begin to comprehend.
(that was more a reply to “who’d YOU invite…?” How’s it goin’ LHP?)
FunnyDiva
According to you, but who elected you pope? Why should your very peculiar view of religion be allowed to spill over into how the government treats marriage?
Well, then, you clearly don’t know about the early centuries of the Christian church which had ceremonies written to bless same-sex unions.
And if I’m not mistaken, so did Native Americans. (who honor gays as having the “two-spirit” form of spirituality, with much to offer the rest of society in wisdom)
Obviously Christy doesn’t know her facts.
She/he states “Because that’s the only place there is comment about homosexuality — there is none in the New Testament…”
Flat wrong. Thus, Christy needs to get the facts straight.
Only if you like death, disease and everything else that comes with it…
All of you new posters — thanks for dropping by today and to commemorate your first visit to the Lake, we’ve got a complimentary DVD copy of “Brokeback Mountain” for each and every one of you. Please keep it on the nightstand in your bedroom next to your bible.
Not sure why God has such a problem with it, but I think it is because if men were not bound and obligated to women, many women were left. Also, besides aids, many other stds are transmitted largely through promiscuity, marriage binds people one to another so I think it helps slow the spread of disease. The oxford lists the historical roots, so it will show the first written recorded use of the word
actually, there’s more in Leviticus and Deuteromy about animal husbandry. They took that pretty history too… one wonders if the wingnuts would have us deal with Tyson Foods executives the same way they’d have us deal with homosexuals… Leviticus 18-23 doesn’t really differentiate.
Bullseye. Thanks.
galatians 3:28,29
Native Americans don’t believe that, and while some tribes may have gays who say this it doesn’t make it true. Additionally, we are talking about an english word
Actually that isn’t true. There are several countries in Europe, Spain among them I believe where, and some states in this country which allow same sex marriage.
I am a Pastor’s wife and we by no means have the nicest car in the lot. How stereotypical of you! Christ did speak of love and forgiveness. But He also spoke of rules and sin. He spoke of what CONSEQUENCES were when the rules/guidelines are not followed. He did state “Thou shall not kill.” Do you have a problem with that? The leftist have no problem killing the unborn if it is not what a woman wants at that time. Again, I will state as I have before on this board..don’t shoot the messengers( Christians) The one that you have a problem with is the One who sent the message. Maybe you need to talk to HIM.
Tyson?
I think doin chickens should be out of the question!
Charter member of the Flat Earth Society.
Thank you for that!
Nobody responded to my point that Red Lobster restaurants are legal even though they are just as “abominable” in the sight of the Lord.
*whew* The mods must be working some serious OT today! ;-)
Life comes with death attached at the very end regardless of sexual orientation. And, as for disease,
wtf are you talking about? AIDs? More hetero folks have AIDs by a huge percentage. STD’s (biology) are non-discriminating.
Bullseye.
Oh well, I guess folks who can’t speak English can’t be “married.”
I think the person who wrote that story was smoking pot or eating magic mushrooms.
1,860 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Jane and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
First off, very good job you, led Rick Sanchez around the ring without a hitch and I think that listenin’ to all the Warren supporters and concern trolls yammerin’ away here makes the point I have been tryin ta make for a couple a threads now… the folks that Obama is tryin’ ta slice out of the evangelical Reichwing will never agree to disagree on anything and won’t support Obama on ANY of the most important issues facin’ us from climate to the war in Iraq to economic regulation and change to abortion unless their good Father Warren tells ‘em to…and that’s a fact, Jack!
So by inviting this hate-mongerin’ douche bag onto the grand stage only enhances his standin’ with his own true believers and, in fact may encourage him to “go off” and spew that devisive shit all over the stage and reduce the inauguration to ashes from that moment on…he may feel compelled to do jest that if he thinks an invocation of reason and tolerance would triangulate his supporters from the larger fascist movement or would separate him from his own base.
I think Obama has made a giant mistake here but I don’t think it’s a total rejection of “the left” or his core beliefs and values.
So merry fuckin’ Xmas and…
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE STRUGGLE GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
What has largely been ignored is that the AA community is absolutely against homosexuality. I saw an AA man on TV a number of years ago who said that AAs had enough problems, especially AA men, that they didn’t need something else for people to put them down. I gather that they believe it is a choice. If what I read and hear is correct, their views are little different from Warren’s because they are usually fairly strict constructionists of the Bible.
you guys are fun. ah, do ya know that ya can’t hide behind a pseudonym on the net?
There is NO evidence of this, none at all, I don’t know where you get your facts, but I think you need to distinguish between what was historically likely, and what actually happenned. Additionally, none of this happenned in the Biblical record. Only those churches sanctioned by the apostles were brought into the Biblical record, other churches were distoritions of the faith by well-to-do trendy Romans who viewed Chrisitanity as a posh thing to do
hehe. oh I don’t mean sexuality at all. I meant Leviticus specifically calls down horrendous punishments on people who don’t clean chickens and cows properly before consumption or sacrifice ;-P. Nothing indicates that the prescribed prohibitions on homosexual behavior are any more or less important than the husbandry and food preparation rules. And nothing indicatse that the directives about genocidally killing the men, women and children of any city where a different god is worshipped are any more or less important either.
purity codes (some property law also). not the same thing as sexual ethics.
Oh, and I forgot to mention — it’s not gay Native Americans who called themselves that — that’s how they are honored by the REST of the community.
Tula’s upstairs…
When W gave an address at the Yale commencement of 2001, months after his theft of the election, a large number of Yale faculty stood and turned their backs on him.
When nutbag Rick starts his invocation, why not organize a mass turning of the backs? We don’t need flimflam, bogus Christianity in our public life anymore.
You checked this out worldwide? Have you ever considered that the English version of things may not be the definitive version?
and for someone who’s so hung up on word origins and development, s/he sure as he** can’t proofread/spell for sh**!
FunnyD
Off to invite some linguists from Language Log over for some “Look it up in OXFORD” smackdown fun. Or not. There’s not much point…
Um, aids in present in a MUCH larger percentage in gays than in hetero sexuals. Additionally, it was present ONLY in gay men FOR years before it showed up in women
Onward Christian soldiers!!! Thanks for stopping by the lake.
But I’ve never understood all this dissecting of the bible to grasp what the “higher power” really meant. Which version of God’s word, translated by men, are we to hold as Truth?
I think I might be a heretic. Or am I heathen? It’s so confusing.
God has a problem with homosexuality because it goes against the natural design for a man or woman. It is not about leaving woman with out husbahds though that may play a small part. In order to continue to replenish the population..the human species…it MUST be a man and a woman.
they’re the way in person. My neighbors are peppy but rather frankly dogmatic fundies. Nice people, but the message and delivery is the same.
he be talkin bout end times.
Yes I believe that they are related as are the prohibitions against intercourse with women during menses.
It’a all about blood and semen and prohibitions about them.
Meat that is to be eaten must be killed ritually to remove the blood.
There is abosolutely not one single tribe in the US THAT DOES THIS, whoever told you this amde it up
That’s because the unborn aren’t people except in your anti-scientific [edited by mod] view of the universe. But you [edited by mod] seem to have no problem seeing the born get killed in mindless wars or have their lives maimed by lack of decent healthcare, education, and opportunity.
Correct. The other one these fundies want to forget about is usury:
Scripture and the history of Xtianity is overwhelmingly against usury, but these fundies cherry-pick. They want to contort scripture, so they can blame their homophobia on Jesus.
cleanliness is next ta godliness, don’t cha know.
would you explain this please? are you claiming that homosexual sex is more dangerous than heterosexual sex?
Yes—like when one must bathe and how frequently
ya know.. I always knew there was something elementally evil abuot that restaurant chain. Denny’s too. Denny’s managers definitely have to be taken to the altar and [Mod: fantasy violence removed] as required under Mosaic Law.
And why did the protestants take out the Maccabees back in the 15th (?) century, and why haven’t the evangelicals who are sect-ually descended from them put them back in?
It’s not even a matter of being elected Pope, Hugh! Whatsamatta you anyway?!
XXOO
FunnyD
I suppose that you have no problem with believeing a lot of other far fetched, drug induced ideas, eh? Like two men can be married!!! Ha Ha Ha ..looks like you may be the one eating the mushrooms!!
uhoh, did someone say CLOWN CAR?!?!
A one on one to discuss the scriptures?
Sure. Perhaps I can enlighten you.
That is true.. but in the United States, HIV infection and AIDS have had a tremendous effect on men who have sex with men. Isn’t that enough to scare them straight or not to partake in such sexual deviations?
The English word Marriage does NOT come from a German root.
It comes from the French marier which in turn came from the Latin maritare which means “young woman”
which is similar to and believed realted to the Greek meirax
which can mean either “daughter” or “boy”.
You could not be more wrong about the immutable meaning of the word “marriage”
I don’t really care about spelling on blogs, but I am an Enlgish professor and coordinator at a local college, which I will not mention. This is the main reason it offends me to change the definition of the word.
The earth is not flat.
Apparently you don’t know much about the spread of HIV in Africa where spread is much more through heterosexual contacts.
name yer version.
which scripture?
at bible study one night, i pointed out something about the scripture that is always used to ‘prove’ that homosexuality is a sin. in the same sentence it also lists gossiping, greed, and envy as sins equal to ‘lasciviousness’.
so, do you gossip?
===============
man, i go away for a few hours it’s turned into a frat party on sibs weekend at regent.
jane, you gotta quit going on tv./s
Wrong.
And boy, do you dance around.
First you claim there has NEVER (anywhere in the world, at any time) been a concept of same-sex marriage, then when I bring up examples you say “none of this happened in the Biblical record.”
Well, of course not…duh.
And what has that to do with the price of tea in China?
Well, Pupsters, I have work to do now.
and since English was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for us!
Feh!
FunnyD
Nope.
It isn’t so much homosexual acts, as promiscuity: many partners of whatever sex.
Which has been known for years.
You thinks so? Ha ..is that why you have a problem with Christians? Cause they don’t want flimflam homos? Poor baby
Of course sex between two men is more dangerous! It is written on every box of condoms! The tissues inside the anus rip EVERY tip and emit a smal amount of blood, which is more likely to spread disease than other body fluids
OKAY, as a person with AIDS for over 20+ years I need to correct your ignorance, because now you are making a fool of yourself. Worldwide, more heterosexuals have AIDS than homosexuals. In this country, it may have been first noticed in gay men, but today it is a pandemic that effects over 35 million + people. Do you have any idea of what is occuring in Africa today? Entire genereations of people are wiped off the face of the planet due to AIDS. Now, we have children raising children in Africa and in this country, people still TAKE A STEP BACK WHEN I TELL THEM I HAVE AIDS. So, perhaps AMERICA could still use a little education, ya think?
You said early Christian church
what natural design? from wikipedia:
No, you can’t read I said PERCENTAGE
can I watch?
FunnyD
Can I just say bottom line is no matter what translation you have.. ultimately it’s a decision that needs to be made.. either choose Christ as Savior simply end up an eternity in Hell. Indecision is a decision…
You, sir, have NO idea what you are taking about. Take a look at the continent of Africa. Millions are infected. Millions of heterosexual people. Look up the word myopic in the Oxford dictionary. You seem to think that history and facts revolve around the European/American model. Jeebus on a Stick. No one in biblical times spoke English or lived in America. This was a middle east culture. Are you a white anglo saxon person?
You can only have sex if there’s a possibility of producing a child.
Casti Connubi
There is no emotional desire for SAME SEX compainionship in animals. Female dogs hump male dogs sometimes, but it is STRICTLY about asserting dominance
how do you know so much about the anus?
galatians 3:28,29
Because all of you are one in the Messiah Jesus, a person is no longer a Jew or a Greek, a slave or a free person, a male or a female. And if you belong to the Messiah, then you are Abraham’s descendants indeed, and heirs according to the promise.
Absolutely. Hate the sin (homosexualtiy) but love the sinner.
Says you.
But you’re wrong.
Go read this:
http://members.tripod.com/~Ber…..spirit.htm
That’s just ONE source of info, mind you. There’s plenty more to be found.
But now I’m off. You can continue to be wrong without me now.
Do you have a link for our guests?
that’s what i thought you were going to say.
using the same logic then should women should only have sex with other women because that would be safer?
I prefer the New American Standard. Closer translation to the original Greek.
Well said Jane. It’s great to see you on the mainstream media.
I hope this is a trend for progressive voices.
- Tom
OMFG!
ROTFLMFAO!
Go make your linguistic pronouncements over at Language Log, where many actual professionals hang out, and see how much mileage you get.
whoa. Swarms of ROFL-copters here at my laptop!
Who knew I’d get such a good laugh slogging through such…stuff (and nonsense).
FunnyD
Just as soon as he sees her nod her approval…
they bluff and hide behind a pseudo. that’s all they do.
“Hey Butch.”
“Yeah, Sundance.”
“You see any white hats out there, Sundance?”
“Nope.”
“Whew, good. We’ll be fine.”
*G*
No I am not a white anglo saxon, only people from a specific area in Germany are anglo or saxon, and it is the root of most English people. I don’t have English blood. :) The hebrew word for marriage is even more clearly specific to men and women only, but we are talking about WHY peole disagree, not arguing the meaning, becaus it should be clear. Additionally, I said PERCENTAGE, NOT TOTAL NUMBERS, NATUARALLY there will be more heteros because there are billions more, PER CAPITA STD’s are more present in gays
haven’t you ever read a box of condoms?
I agree.. I like the NAS too.
No fair injecting evidence into a religious conversation. *g*
COME ON, YOU GUYS!!
Did anyone ever suggest that you would LOVE (or even LIKE) EVERY SINGLE one of Obama’s decisions?
OK – I think that Warren is a dick-wad, too. But who gives a crap. Let the man burble on, and pay attention to the Rev. who gives the closing prayer and spoke truth to power at Mrs. King’s funeral.
My, what a fine crop of subpontine residents we have visiting this afternoon.
Too bad most of them haven’t read the New Testament, except for Revelation (which reads like a drug trip) and maybe Acts:
‘Whatever you do to the least of these, you do to me.’
‘Love your neighbor as your self.’
‘Do to others as you would have them do to you.’
No, sorry, greendavidl @ 128, but you’re wrong. Even playing by your own rules, that’s not why Sodom was destroyed.
Ezekiel 16:49-50 is very clear on that.
So it seems you do cherrypick your bible verses to support what you want to believe, or you would already have known better than to try and pretend that Sodom’s destruction and homosexuality are connected.
And when you asked them, precisely what did they tell you?
I thot so.
Bullseye
at least don’t write fallacies! two women can’t procreate, and anal sex never heals and never stops bleeding over time and repetetive use, the vagina develops stronger tissue
Churchill claims that the Anglo Saxons may have all disappeared from England- without a trace- since 1099 and all that.
You’re entitled to your personal, religous bottom line.
But don’t pretend it has any bearing on the civil and legal realities of life under the US Constitution, which contains exactly NOTHING remotely resembling your comment.
FunnyDiva
Lets get something straight about gays. Pardon the pun.
“Gender should” refer to the spiritual individual. “Sex” should refer to the physical body or genitalia.
I once knew an individual who looked like a beautiful female woman except that she had male genitalia. God’s purpose for creating her is unknown to me, as is God’s purpose for creating individuals of both genders in the opposite body.
What most of us haven’t considered is that there are two kinds of “gay” lifestyles. The one where a male gender has a female body, or a female gender has a male body. These are the individuals who were created this way by God. The second is the individual who “chooses” to live a gay lifestyle after not being able to cope with a “straight” relationship.
I have always been straight. I could never be able to tolerate the touch of another man under any circumstances. I imagine that a woman with a male gender, or a man with a female gender created that way by God would have the same reaction to members of the opposite “sex”.
There is another form of confusion in the case where an individual delights in the “perversion” from having sex with both sexes, but I consider them to be “perverts” and chose not to discuss them.
All of this is beside the point because if “gay sex” is a sin and “straight sex” out of wedlock is a sin then why isn’t there just as much opposition to it? Sin is sin. There is no distinction between levels.If you think Americans should have rights revoked based on their state of sin then none of us should have any rights at all.
Let’s either pass laws to stop marriage rights for anyone who has sex without marriage or else shut up and keep our noses out of other peoples love life, and let all Americans have the same rights.
great. i’ll get one. pls stop by again. you are a big hit.
how anyone could possibly bastardize Galatians 3:28,29 to say that it makes any comment whatsoever on the explicit prohibitions on certain types of sexual contact from Leviticus I have no fecking idea. It’s about as clear an interpretation as saying (as Southern segregationalists did) that Genesis 9:19-27 was meant to validate the Separate but Equal doctrine. In fact, 3:26-3:27 would appear to suggest that Galatians 3 effectively repealed those same prohibitions. Galatians 3 is an attempt at being universal, which is why “male and female” is used alongside just about every other known grouping of people at the time. It says nothing about who can marry or anything else about the correct relationship between the two genders. There is no translation in any system of honest biblical scholarship that cuold conceivably say otherwise.
I’ve never seen that bad a translation of that passage. Even given that, it conveys the opposite message you Warrenites are pounding.
I have to go cause all of this talk of same sex sex and nastiness has made me horny. I am off to get off. Where did I put that condom box? I have some readin’ to do. Lord help me, the dog is startin’ to look good. and I ain’t even gay. happy but not gay.
Honey….. where are you? Momma has a surprise for ya. Momma wants to make a baby.
but you, CA-rc, your flit like a butterfly, sting like a bee, that’s what I wanna watch in the BlindFundy vs LogicalScholar cage-match smackdown!
whew. Is it just me, or is it getting really HOT in here?!
XXOO
FunnyD
now why would i want ta do that? you seem ta be fixated a bit. just sayin.
Exactly, don’t cherry pick. Read the whole story. The main sin was sexual immorality. If you read the whole story it would be clear what the detestable things were
I don’t know, but I hope they donate and click through the advertising.
Who’s hiding?
not just dominance:
You start quoting etymology, and you’re doing exactly what you say you aren’t doing.
Marriage now is not what it was even four hundred years ago, and it certainly isn’t what it was two thousand years ago. Arguing that it’s never changed, or that there’s a ‘traditional form’ that’s the only correct kind of marriage, is a losing proposition.
Too much evidence that you’re way the f*ck wrong.
just like ye olde neighbourhood pot luck. something to share or something to spare, like a recipe or list of ingrates or sumthin like that-there?
i heard this today on the way to my appointment.
it applies to our conversation here.
one of the most wonderful, touching segments i have ever heard.
it is nine minutes long.
five stars.
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..d=98450439
Thank you for the support. I couldn’t find my Bible to look up the verse. Thanks again.
Exactly, thats why I think the government should stop dealing with marriage at all and just issue everyone civil unions.
only the shadow knows – hand-puppets may be excused from the classroom at this point.
Oh dear Ghu, you are so ignorant and so wrong.
Talk to a gynecologist.
Actually, you gave me evidence that supports my argument, The one part of marriage that has maintained and changed the least is that it has always been one man and one woman. And, really, it hasn’t changed much
There is a certain fun in arguing with wingnuts but ultimately it is a sterile exercise. They just go round and round in circles. Everytime you answer one of their points, they move on to another and then after a bit come back and just repeat the point you debunked. They just believe the benighted things they do because they are much more comfortable with their prejudices if they can dress them up in a little religious hypocrisy.
forget your snark tag?
XXOO
FunnyD
I have, it was actually a gynecologist who told my wife and I all that info about the anus. She had a bladder infection from having too much sex on our honeymoon, and the subject came up about safe sex practices
ya know what’s kinda ‘funny’ about all of this? the ‘we know it for a fact’ visitor thing? i haven’t seen any original thought or input yet. heard better from an 80 year old man, at least he was original. using his own reference and thoughts. not so with this bunch.
sorry, I was not quoting Galations as support of any “explicit prohibitions on certain types of sexual contact”… I just cut and paste that from the post I was replying to…
I think the point that person was making was trying to make was that those of us opposed to same sex marriage were not adhereing to the message in Galations that was quoted.
My point was simply that I agree with that scripture, and that I don’t hate gays or lesbians… I simply hate the sin.
I realize they way I cut and pasted that it was confusing.
cleanliness is next to impossible.
If you espouse to be a CHRISTIAN, which means “Christ-like” then you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Christ NEVER SAID A WORD ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY.
well, sir. hope ya don’t. i kinda like ya. it’s not often i meet a person who has all the answers. i do feel that i can learn somethin from ya. let me lay in a version of NAS so we have the same ref.
I’m not sure how much clearer “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.’” needs to be. You can try and put your words in God’s mouth all you want–I try to avoid being that arrogant.
“During the course of the entire inaugural festivities there is going to be a wide range to viewpoints that are going to be presented,” said Obama.
Yep, I’ve never seen such diversity! Why we have the mushy corporate middle, the center-right, the right, the far right, the fundie hard right, the KKK… Funny they couldn’t find a pagan, a witch, or a gay farie witch, or even the Dali Lama to give the invocation? Not even a Unitarian (way too far left for Obama and the Dems)! Nope, the Dems have to endorse Warren as the chief spiritual advisor to this (so-called Democratic) president.
Why, the same kind of diversity is represented in Obama’s choices for his cabinet: 2 republicans, Clinton-era dems, corporate dems, middle of the road dems. Not one progressive, let alone a scary leftist!
Feel included yet?
um *blush* actually, no. do you want me to?
mommy? where do conkums come from?
Please change doctors. It’s really important to have a health practitioner who can provide you with accurate information.
how about shouting out of turn?
wait a minute. you don’t mean ya like yer wife’s butt?
You’re killing me.
somehow the quoted test is not what I meant to quote.
I had the wrong text on my clipboard. The part i was trying to quote wqas about marriage being between two people who could make a baby
i guess that was kinda cheating. *g*
Nael @216:
What you don’t seem to realize is that not everyone who posts and/or lurks at this blog is Christian.
I am a Pagan, Witch and Buddhist and I don’t believe in your silly god and your stupid manmade rules.
By the way, why don’t you practice what the man you call your god’s son taught:
“Whatever ye have done unto the least of these ye have done unto Me.”
Think about it, and think about the pain you’ve inflicted on your fellow man.
Brisingamen
I hear a lot of name calling and I am not going round and round, but respondign individually to the arguments presented, if you look at this page, you’ll see that there are certain people resorting to name calling and encouraging those who can no longer respond because they lack knowledge. I AM ONLY trying to say that you can’t altar the meaning of a word and that really, the government shouldn’t have a part in it at all and that I would protect any gay person’s right to live and die however they chose and that throughtout life in terms of all taxes, insurance, ownership, inheritance, you name it, it should be EQUAL, just don’t call it something it isn’t. Marriage is weak enough now because people get married for fleshy issues, and other superficial reasons without strong faith and love, don’t make it anyweaker by extending it to cover all people who are together
yes. i’m so sorry for your loss.
Hi, great to see you.
What the hell are you talking about?
Oh, so all those people in the Bible with multiple marriages weren’t really married?
You can’t claim that ‘one man and one woman’ is ‘traditional’ amrraige, because there are more than enough examples to disprove it.
You can’t claim that there’s only one correct kind of marriage, because there are more than enough examples to disprove it.
Take a look at the world as it is, before you try making it conform to your own narrow-minded views.
Biggest piece of crap I’ve ever heard.
Do your research. Read some of the sources Randy Shilts cites in his works as an author and reporter. Read CDC reports from the early 80’s to now.
Or are you getting your facts from divine perturbations?
*smilessweetly*
Jesus pal-ed around with men. Twelve hairy men in robes. And they drank a fair amount together. Ate a lot of fish, too. Had gatherings of hundreds, if not thousands of people. Sounds a little like Woodstock.
wft are you talking about? I never tried to use the bible for anything
which translation, please?
No need to be condesending. I never claimed to have all the answers. But like you I am passionate about my beliefs.
This is not a site I regularly visit… in fact never heard of it until I caught the bit on CNN… but will be happy to check back when you have a chance to get an NAS version.
Just tell me when to check back, and how I find you again.
thanks blub. that’s how i read it too – and why i quoted it.
yup
rick warren is the entitled loser who thinks clergy needs spehhshull treatment when it comes to taxes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10……html?_r=1
*mmmfffitznnnnnnuuubl*
whew. that was close.
“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”
so you never visited but you know what is “typical”?
you are such a drag
I can’t find it, but there is a specific time in Genesis when god says Okay, no more multiple wives
you may check back at any time. give me until after 122508 as I am busy with homeless duties at the moment. thank you for your interest.
I agree, thats kinda how I like to think of it
have you ever really really annoyed a free-swimming squid? nadda.
cornered one and really riled it up?
ink. the spoils for the chaser of squid.
your universe awaits your pleasure, cookie.
hey, i’m not christian. neither are millions of tax paying americans. why do we care what the Genesis says? we do care if an entitled tax dodging homophobe spews his garbage at the white house.
Sorry Raven… I must gotten tangled up trying to follow the chain backwards.
My apologies, I can’t figure out where I misstepped and who I was trying to respond to.
hey. u always wanted a dragster, eh? congrats. I won’t tell the missus. Honest. x
Still, what the hell are you talking about?
living counter evidence right here at the other end of the toobz.
Now Muriel plays piano
Every Friday at the Hollywood
And they brought me down to see her
And they asked me if I would –
Do a little number
And I sang with all my might
And she said –
“Tell me are you a Christian child?”
And I said “Ma’am I am tonight”
And which also says, in the Gospels, “…do unto others as you would have them do unto you…” and “…love your neighbor as your self.” That applies to all self-appointed judgment pushers.
there’s a lotta that going around.
Rx: have a little lie-down and rest before joining the next thread.
you’ll probably be fine.
I am not trying to get you to agree with Christians, I only make the comments about scripture to those who say scripture doesn’t say anything about homosexuality, cause it does, and its clear. I am not one of those who wants to hold a sign stopping gays from adopting or people from getting an aboprtion, I DO not want the government, don’t want the meaning of marriage and the word changed, and DO WANT anyone and everyone to be able to get paid billions of dollars if anyone anywhere ever violates their rights or treats them unfairly or unequally
Fixed part of it for you.
Please click through the advertising.
no, a sickle, she knows and she knows I don’t get one because of her fears. It’s cool, my truck hauls ass and sounds like a freight train!
My parents told me it was not a good idea to discuss either politics or religion. I didn’t believe them until today – what a thread! The mods must be having a grand old time. Some of the comments make me scared to comment any more even though I’ve been here a long time. Vicious.
thanks for clearing that up, I retract the idiot comment.
You just say things. Words change meaning all the time. Even the word marriage is not the word that is found in the bible. That would have to be either Hebrew or Greek. And the view of marriage changes in the bible from Old Testament as the society changes from nomadic to agrarian to small town to Roman Imperial. That is what is so bizarre about your contention it is a modern invention that you are now trying to read back into history.
Sid?
oh, please. try to pray on it a little.
oh, and hugh, tell em it’s alter
That’s very nice.. Thank you for that. ;->
I’m sorry. The devil made me do.
I’m sorry again.
Fabulous! That should limit it to the New Testament, n’est pas? Or is there some secret “original” Greek Old Testament my fundie Middle and Jr Hi school Bible teachers didn’t tell me about?
CA-rc
I still wanna watch!
XXOO
FunnyD
thanks for clarifying. again, why should what the bible says about gays or marriage or anything else matter to me? or to the courts? we follow the Constitution, not the bible. i follow calvin and hobbes. i don’t go around quoting what calvin says about bible thumpers.
Follow your own advice.
the first time
second time I did it on my own
Thanks for the clarification. We use the RSV, which goes even further away from some of the interpretations used by some of the evangelical denominations to justify their social views. I just do not understand how Baptists and fundamentalists somehow use standards of “sin” that appear to the rest of Christianity to be defined completely outside of validated Biblical catechism.
Congrats. You obviously are loved very much by someone special. Please tell her we say Howdy from our similarly happy household. ;->
That’s a good point.
Could you expand on the idea that government shouldn’t be involved in marriage at all, instead of the wide wonderful world of the anus?
aw, that’s nice
she’s a gardener, she doesn’t care about all this fussin
ohhhhhhhhhhhh i got a big headache!!! all this sex talk………… lmao!!! its been some post this time!! o m f g!!!!
Dude, really, the greek and Hebrew words are clearly only about Men and Women CLEARLY GR: γάμος (gamos) HB נישואים
In regards to historical context, the ONLY cermonies performed under the Jewish or Christian traditions were between a man and a woman, regardless of how roles and duties have changed with society and the times, that hasn’t
that’s different from “prey”. An important distinction sometimes lost on the smitten.
Heartwarming, thanks.
Luke has an angel appear to Mary. In Matthew the angel appears to Joseph. Mark and John ignore the issue completely. Who should I believe?
I want links! I need documentation in the form of links!
Theres not much mroe to say, get the government out of it other than to protect our freedoms and liberty and equality. Other than that, leave the traditional insitution alone
Why are ships always referred to as “she”?
would you be ok with the government getting out of the marriage business altogether? how about if government just did the legal part – we could call it “civil union” or something else, so long as the word marriage was not used.
then churches (or whatever) could do the marriage part, if the couple wanted that. then your church could define marriage in whatever way you think is right and my church could do the same.
would that be acceptable?
Here’s a little something from a non-believer
Yes, this rather seems to be his point: if marriage is altered, then marriage can’t be altared.
Exactly! This is why we must respond to the Bible as though it has come through a dirty filter. Which is why I do not condemn anyone and waNT everyone TO BE FREE AND EQUAL, i JUST DON’T WANT IT TO BE CALLED MARRIAGE
Yes, indeed !
I’m a practicing “christian” which means I attend church. I firmly believe in the golden rule, do unto others, etc. also in “live and let live” which may or may not be in the Bible, I don’t know, but I think it’s a good idea. If God wants me to be gay, so be it. I’m not, because that’s not His plan for me.
But I’m not here to tell other people how to live. It’s up to others to make their own choices as long as it doesn’t hurt anybody else. That’s my bottom line. Should I tell my Jewish friends they’re going to hell because they haven’t found Christ? Or Muslims, or Buddhists? Pretty arrogant.
I think Obama blew it in a most hamhanded way. no kosher joke intended. I get to tell him that because of my right to free speech and the fact that he signed up to be my President to represent all of us. Fact is, he could have chosen a way less controversial choice. It doesn’t have to be a celebrity preacher.
wow – rev rick sent his boyz and girlz to bring the word to us dirty fucking hippies today…
Because it was men who traditionally operated them and “loved” them and they didn’t want anybody else to think they were gay
You don’t strike me as very “Christian.”
Christianity has a long tradition about “social sin” and “social grace.” You might want to consider that.
yet you are trying to change the meaning of the word, the word does NOT mean what you say it means
so you can have your wish…however that is not your wish it is simply a tool you’ve used to explain a position that does not exist
the meaning of marriage is NOT the wedding of man and women
so sorry to spoil your entire argument
see you around jedty
LOL Did you find your honey?