Note: I’ll be on CNN at 3:10 with Rick Sanchez to discuss Rick Warren. If I do half as good as Hilary Rosen did last night on Anderson Cooper, I’ll be delighted — jh
Warren protests that he’s not a homophobe; it’s just that two dudes marrying, in his mind, is indistinguishable from an adult marrying a child, a brother marrying his sister, or polygamy. He thinks his AIDS relief efforts represent an elevated form of Christianity over those non-evangelical do-gooders whom he compares to "Marxists" because they’re more interested in good works than salvation. The rejection of the "social justice" gospel in favor of the salvation-focused evangelicalism that has come to dominate the definition of "Christian" lies at the heart of the religious right agenda to marginalize liberalism and harness its political power.
Warren represents the absolute worst of the Democrats’ religious outreach, a right-winger masquerading as a do-gooder anointed as the arbiter of what it means to be faithful. Obama’s religious outreach was intended, supposedly, to make religious voters more comfortable with him and feel included in the Democratic Party. But that outreach now has come at the expense of other people’s comfort and inclusion, at an event meant to mark a turning point away from divisive politics.
It was a very divisive choice, as Team Obama knew it would be after their Donnie McClurkin experience. "Inclusiveness" does not meaning putting whatever hatemonger you can find onto the program, if it did we’d have the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan delivering the invocation.
As Ed Kilgore notes, the people for whom election day this year was not a joy were those whose lives were affected by the passage of Prop 8. Given the role Rick Warren had in spreading the lies that helped it to pass, his high profile role at the innauguration will just pour salt into that wound.
And no, the LGTB marching band does not make up for that.



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Jane!
Unfortunately no CNN; maybe online.
Thanks Jane.
digg
Good luck Jane! But I know just how well you will represent the Progressive view…Give Hell Jane!! Warren has no business to be giving the invocation at the Inauguration he represents the repressiveness of this “Christian” View!
Jesus is frowning on these kind of “Christians” he would be totally inclusive of all his “Lambs of God”!
Obama referred to this as an example of “diversity”… and he didn’t preface it with a “snark alert” either…
It is interesting that Obama has not addressed this. His transition team I guess has made some statements but neither he nor any of his top people have really come out and talked about this directly, or maybe I should say, effectively.
There’s a huge difference between reaching out to those you disagree with and giving a clown like Warren a premier performance in one of the biggest spotlights of your upcoming presidency. I’ve never thought of Obama as The Great Liberal, but it angers me to see him coddle the forces of hatred and ignorance in such a high-profile manner.
I’m trying to lie to myself that this a master plan to use Rick Warren’s buffoonery to finally discredit evangelical politics. And I just had to shut off Thom Hartmann who was making a similar argument about how brilliant this is. But I don’t think Obama’s playing this on that level. The pattern is developing that Obama really has what I consider to be a real weakness in his character centered around religion. I could be wrong, but I’m really intolerant of listening to speakers for God. I don’t want nor need that in the political affairs of men (and women).
he (bama) was just on cnn talkin about warren. gave what i would say as the history of the relationship. he and mccain went to speak at the church. acknowledged huge differences but said there is now a big tent.
I’ll be on CNN at 3:10 with Rick Sanchez to discuss Rick Warren.
Eastern Time?
The choice is a superb way for Obama — and his faithless Democrats like Dianne Feinstein — to ensure the pain of November Fourth resonates clearly on Inauguration Day. More gay skunks at the party, not rejoicing in The Changiness.
Fuck Obama. This was purposeful and meant to piss me off, so I’m fucking pissed off. Just as he intended.
I expect to get pounded mercilessly for this but……………. i think by now this is getting too much attention (although i’m always glad to get a heads up when somebody’s gonna be on TV. can we designate today Rick Warren day and then get back to other stuiff tomorrow? (I’m serious. Not being a wise guy).
Well, the silver lining is that Obama doesn’t want to leave out people who leave people out. Now that’s inclusiveness!
/s
i have always thought that the thugs are their own worst enemy. just give em the mike. that’s all ya have ta do.
You are a well, if soft spoken pundit. How about a little (lot) righteous indignation on CNN. Give’m hell!
Roland Martin just doesn’t get it. If he had listened to Hilary Rosen, he would have gotten it. I guess there is still a market for close minded, ignorant hacks…
I’ve been a gay activist for 39 of my 61 years. And what I’ve learned in that time is that traditional politics is not to be trusted. There is no way to “work through the system” when sais sytem is based on lies an betrayal.
Moreover I’m not at all interested in “reaching out” to straight people anymore. If you don’t “get it” by now I have nothing to say to you.
Clearly I have nothing to say to Barack Obama. And he, as is obvious, has nothing to say to me.
Actually, Rick Warren Day is January Twentieth, thanks to The One. Today, and every day between now and Inauguration Day, is the sweet prelude to Rick Warren Day.
Thanks, Obama.
He talked about it during his presser today…blah, blah, blah…we have differing views…blah, blah, blah…everybody needs to get along…
I think they did this to appease the rabid right that still believe that BO is a Muslim….the types that are a threat to his very existence.
Rick Warren and his ilk can go suck a rock…just don’t let him influence policy.
Gawd, it just never frikkin’ ends.
C’mon, we all saw this coming. He peed all over us repeatedly during the primaries and he’s continuing to pee all over us. Anyone at the lake who pointed this out was shouted down. Joe Wilson used to come here occasionally– I suppose he couldn’t handle the herd mentality of the Obama supporters.
I don’t want to here any complaining from the Obama herd. We knew this from the very beginning when he appeared with Donnie McClurkin.
No whining.
I’m not clear on my thoughts about this choice, but I think your comment gets really close to it. Like, what’s up with Obama and preachers? that kind of thing.
Roland Martin is a ‘phobe. What were you expecting? Our existence is still ‘controversial.” If it weren’t Anderson Cooper wouldn’t have gone back into the closet — and the “Mainstream” wouldn’t have played along with his closet-keeping.
I’m sure he has “differing views” with the Arayan Nation. Were they invited to the Inaugural?
icymi, here’s cbl2’s take, that it’s fundraising for DiFi and others Rick Warren …. Another Take
Agree about Rosen, she was terrific.
Warren is the opposite of civility.
AFAIK, the fact that Warren got this gig, probably reveals the real weakness of RC leaders and mainline protestant leaders.
Rosen’s quote about the bible justifying slavery was excellent. Scriptures prohibitions against usury are a lot more explicit and frequent than anything referencing same sex relationships.
I meant I don’t want to hear any complaining…
And dogs are a “pack”, not a herd. Thought I’d stir it up a bit more…heh..
Thanks for the info. I agree with LS this sounds mealymouthed but OTOH this does sound like policy. Neither Obama nor Biden support same sex marriage so Warren’s views really aren’t that far off of Obama’s.
Indeed! I WARNED YOU PEOPLE ABOUT THIS MONTHS AGO!!!
But did you listen?
(crickets chirping)
We may have to start calling you Big Media Jane. Seriously, it is great to see our point of view finally get on TV.
It was clear to me that John McCain was given the questions ahead of time during the so called “Faith Debate”, he never was able during any other debate to answer clearly and decisively. How was he able to respond so clearly in this debate when he was an idiot in every other? I believe he was given the questions ahead of time so he could answer very coherently in this debate. I think Rick Warren is a liar, a cheat and in the business of religion for the money. If he has anything to do with the inauguration of Obama, I for one feel ripped off. Why would Obama let him have anything to do with his inauguration unless he was in on Warren’s bullshit?
Wait till some crazy story comes out about Warren someday…gotta keep an eye on those haters who project. He’s just another phony evangelical dude that makes stuff up for fame and fortune. JC was never “quoted” as saying anything about gay people. Hypocrites…all of them.
IIRC Leviticus or one of those goes on for pages and pages about leprosy and dietary habits but many other areas barely get mentioned.
yes
It’s a particularly odioud chopice given the recent events re: prop 8 and Amendment 2. it’s an affront. we should all be pissed and you should be livid, ted (as I’m sure you are). I’m just saying that in the bigger picture: a) I think Obama will be more supportive of GLBT interests than any president so far (not saying too much)and there are just a ton of issues where i want to see what Obama does (and he could very well disappoint me) and I’m, not gona dwel othis too much. That sorry sack o’shit will have 2 minutes on innaguration day. Obama’s polivies will affect us for a long time. You have more invested in this Ted. Don’t mean to seem like it doesn’t bother me. I just want it in “perspective” and we have different perspectives. This is hard (for m,e) to articulate so maybe I better stop tryin’.
meant “odious”. (Putting thesaurus away now.)
Religion is the business of money. We’re supposed to give money to those who promulgate the existence of a Big Invisible Bi-Polar Daddy Who Lives in the Sky.
And it’s tax free.
I don’t even think Obama gives a hoot about whether gay or lesbian couples can or should be allowed to marry. He is a politician. He can pick and choose his battles in order to gain power. I really don’t think he is a man who is threatened by the choices made by other people..but I do think he is threatened by losing votes and support from those his handlers consider crucial to his attainment of power. Rick Warren, OTOH, is a bigot.
I’m sure there’s a hustler/masseur somewhere.
as I said in the previous thread, I see Obama’s logic in doing this. I just fundamentally disagree that its ever worth playing ball with the Taliban. As far as I am concerned, post-partisan unity/big tents do not extend to include haters on the wingnut extremist fringe. They should be left outside, in the cold. Wingnut rockstar clerics have way too much influence in American society and politics as it is… makes it feel like this is really Iran or something.
Obamaites should recognize that there’s no hay to be made out of promoting reconciliation with the Palinist wingnut fringe. While he’s making nice and talking about post-partisanship, they’re passing around racist threatemail around to each other up in Alaska, with his name on it and with their wingnut governette pretty much sanctioning it all http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..1971.html. That’s the sort of people we’re talking about here.
Jesus Christ had TONS to say about adultery. About gays he said . . .nothing.
No surprise as he was a Big Ol’ Queen himself.
I didn’t tune in until this thread. I totally agree with what you are saying.
I see this as more than just a gay issue. The civil liberties of women are also under attack. You are being denied control over your life as a gay. It’s the same oppression for women with the nasty anti-choice part of Warren’s message.
Except we get babies with our oppression. Lot’s and lot’s of babies.
anyone know what business, aside from church, warren is in?
The Warren invitation shows that the Lieberman episode was not a fluke. The more I see of this the more I think that Obama includes these people not because he disagrees with them but because he basically agrees with their views.
Somebody needs to explain to Andy Cooper that the American President doesn’t “rule” so we can’t tell “how Obama will rule” by the Rick Warren choice. The President governs.
You are so right, and it is so wrong…
Give ‘em hell, Jane.
What really bothers me is the sloppiness of the “inclusiveness” meme. Who is Obama inviting to represent anti-semites (because you have some of those)? Who to represent those who still believe in slavery?
It’s such a sloppy way to represent democracy, which means a whole lot more than just voting. Nobody should be voting on anyone else’s human rights; in a democracy, that is an obscenity, and everyone in the world who believes in democracy must learn that. Obama is not helping.
This is also not going to go down well internationally.
Courage Campaign is sponsoring MILK + LOVE this Saturday. Screenings of “Milk” followed by a candlelight vigil.
LA Screenings
uh-oh. Just at Huffington. saw that haselebeck says warren is a “great choice.” i’m re-thinking this now. maybe this pisses me off more than i originally thought.
thanks.
he is just givin em enough rope to hang. that’s all it is, imo.
I don’t think he agrees with their views, personally. I think he is taking bits and pieces from everyone’s views and trying to piece together a tapestry of opinion. The problem with this is that everyone is slightly or very ticked off about something. It’s like throwing everything in the pot and you end up with mushy crappola that you have to feed to the dog, because it become unappetizing and inedible..that is the risk he’s taking…he’s losing the mojo.
So another soulless power seeker. But that still leaves whose interests he will be serving, clearly he won’t be ours.
Never met an ex-hippie jesus freak con artist that was not also a fascist
in their view of people… big personality, daddy complex, hustle the choir
for strange… older than Elmer Gantry. Obama has strange taste in peers.
What else would you expect? That show typifies eh de-evolution we’re undergoing. Back in the 60’s when I was teenager the tube was full of really smart people all the time: Gore Vidal, James Baldwin, Oscar Levant, Alexander King. Now only idiots prevail.
Far more than “slightly.” Ever since the elction I have been in a perpetual state of rage. And I’m not alone in this.
That is exactly what he is aiming at…those people…at the expense of
“other” people. Quite honestly, the rabid right is a real, real threat to his existence. I’m sure there are people out there after him. I can see that part of it, but for “Christ’s” sake, don’t diss an entire segment of society.
It is so disappointing, but not surprising. :(
Knee-jerk reaction: This was an offensive and politically tone-deaf move on Obama’s part.
More thought-out reaction: I really don’t give a shit who’s at the inauguration. Of all past Inaugurations, the only person I can even remember being at one is Maya Angelou, because the local college Republican newspaper made a big stink about it. And I knew Obama was an anti-gay-rights candidate when I voted for him, so this pick isn’t really too much of a shock.
That being said, I have to remind myself that, from a political standpoint, Obama is a lot smarter than I am. What’s the view from the Right? I really don’t see how they can be any happier about this than I am. The presence of Warren at the inauguration really has to be seen as an endorsement of Obama. And it shows the complete moral bankruptcy of the antiabortion movement. If you really thought Obama is a Hitler who is going to preside over a Holocaust of the unborn, would you show up at his inauguration? The only way Warren could get around this is by being a total douchebag in his speech, which I don’t think he’s going to do. (Most people don’t like looking like douchebags. Especially if they’re douchebags.) So I think the Warren pick is sort of Obama’s way of saying, “Look, this isn’t a sincere activist. This is a garden-variety media whore. See?”
Very poor choice of imagery, to be avoided at all costs in discussions of America’s first African-American president. No one is being lynched, or hanged, here.
And what makes you think Obama is ever going to pull the leash up short on dogs like Lieberman and Warren? There’s no evidence that’s ever going to happen.
He agrees with them more than he agrees with ours.
As for CRC at #50, there is no evidence for this. I mean seriously how many miles of rope has he extended to Lieberman?
Great question to ask, and deserving of reptition, What business besides religion makes Rick Warren soooooo much money? Nothing else needs to be asked.
I think he’s constantly trying to ride the razor’s edge…sooner or later you slip. It will be interesting to see where this all goes. It won’t be boring, that’s for sure.
I’m sorry to see that the Politics of Social Control through Spiritual Divisiveness have a prominent place at the Obama table.
I really want all of this religious justification of policy BS out of government..once and for all..F the convocation.
Yet I see all these political smarts making it less likely we are going to get out of our current mess. Despite all of his “smart” political choices, I see the possibility for good effective policy coming out of his Administration as low.
Rick Warren said in an interview that I heard this morning that Buddhists are against gay marriage.
That is news to me!
Religion is a business.
I say we say “Mr. Obama this is just not acceptable, be careful what you wish for.”
You believe ONE WORD that he says?
I think the point here is that most of us feel this pick is sort of Obama’s way of saying, “Look, I am not a sincere activist. I am a garden-variety media whore. See?”
Unfortunate but it is true, the Dalai Lama is against gay marriage and homosexuality. I couldn’t believe it when I heard, I was frankly shocked but it is true.
Where sex and religion come together, hypocrisy and bigotry are sure to follow.
Cellar47, I hope you don’t mind me saying this but your pithy rants are cracking me up. “Big Bipolar Daddy in the Sky”? ROFL.
Isn’t that the truth. I just don’t get it. One of the reasons I am not a fan of organized relgion of any kind. Why do they care what anyone does?
Note to Jane: Spencer needs a new tie.
I left some gift hints on his ”Me You See” thread. just sayin’. :P
Obviously, the Republican Jesus crowd and its Media Arm (the entire MSM) will not be appeased by Obama’s Olive Branch Rick Warren. They are going to go after Obama ruthlessly as planned. They began the unrelenting smear of Obama with the Blago mess within minutes. Clinton media rules are now back in place.
see, it’s not bama that has the end of the leash. it’s us.
A Healthful meal is not begun by starting with Spoiled Ingredients.
Boiling the concoction does not remove the toxins.
Bill Clinton tried the “make nice” and was screwed.
Ted Kennedy tried the “make nice” and was screwed.
I am not mesmerized by anyone’s words including those of Obama.
Monday I will change my voter registration and delete the Democratic Party, these things are tracked and the high and mighty then may get it.
But I doubt it as they live in bubbles.
Yup.
It is the job of Religion to create a diversion. While the Government is ripping off the people, the people are busy feeling guilty about masterbation.
Nope. And they’ll piss on him from a distance.
But it’s one of those leashes with an invisible dog at the end.
Jane must have quite a mug collection.
Giving Warren a world stage is an affront to the good Christians who practice their faith through love,good works and inclusiveness everyday with no fanfare or recognition and whose reward is the stain which people like Warren have brought to the designation Christian.
meant to be a reply to hugh at 72
Does anyone else suspect that the deckchairs have, yet once again, been rearranged by the powers that be?
and sex in general…
Jane should preface a remark to Anderson Closet with something like this, “As a gay American, and Civil Rights proponent, surely you have an opinion about Warren…”
Even the Dalai Lama has ingrained cultural taboos. I would imagine Gandhi would feel the same way, unfortunately.
Absolutely, rearrange those deck chairs and life will be explainable…
Glad to provide a soupcon of levity in this dark time.
I think the point I was trying to make before (and which huffpost also made as well in a different article) is that apparently Obama is trying to score a double hitter here: make nice with the moderate wingnuts and draw them into his post-partisan big tent while simultaneously sidelining the extreme wingnuts, who are already expressing their outrage that their man Rick has agreed to speak for the black commie muslim.
i wonder if good christians would feel that way? don’t they protect all christians? never heard any of em speak up. i am not upset by warren having this much exposure. i think it will work against him. for example, we are talkin bout him.
sorry, my last for JLML.
the problem is.. as far as I (and hopefully most other decent Americans) are concerned, there really is no difference between the moderate wingnuts and the bomb throwers. Is Palin a moderate or an extremist? Heck if I can tell, and I doubt Obama can either. The entire fringe should be consigned to political oblivion IMO.
is he gay? didn’t know.
Exactly. Or guilt over anything. Coveting thy neighbor’s goods, his wife or his livestock. Not praying enough, lusting in your heart, overeating, drunkenness, the monkey in your soul.
Why is it necessary for human beings to have some group of people to hate? It is sad but true, we need to have a group of people to hate in order to feel good about ourselves. Historically, anyway. I find it sad.
He’s quite gay according to David Ehrenstein. Course, he thinks everyone is gay. /s Ehrenstein’s got a few pictures of Coop and friend.
1,860 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
I agree that Warren is despicable and at the time that movement to repeal Proposition 8 is gatherin’ steam it has within it a lotta potentially unwanted and unintended consequences…however, I believe that the biggest risk Obama makes with this invitation is that it provides Warren the platform to go off like a Mt. Vesuvius of hate and blow away all the smoke an helium of “reconciliation”…by the time of the benediction the entire inauguration will be in ashes.
It should also be said that unless Warren is compeletly mindless, he knows he is bein’ used as a wedge and unless he goes off and uses the platform to distract from the message that Obama is tryin’ to convey, he’s gunna triangulate a good chunk of the Reichwing evangelicals. So I think Obama’s made a mistake and the likely outcome has risks that greatly outweigh the rewards…but Obama’s a lot smarter’n I am and I was wrong a couple a times last year.
So merry fuckin’ Christmas and…
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE STRUGGLE GOES ON AND ON AND…
don’t care what he is. he got a great show.
who has a great show? Jeff Warren? Please say it isn’t so.
What bothers me most is that there are hundreds of quiet, hard-working ministers whose practice of their religion is not only inclusive but is driven by selfless passion for justice and peace. Their small churches represent the everyday consciousness for the common good of the here and now: homelessness, gay and lesbian and immigrant rights, soup kitchens, prisons, the disgrace of torture, army recruitment practices in high schools, environmental racism… An Inaugural platform of change should have selected one of them: they represent the everyday good works of Americans of conscience. The congregations whose mission emphasizes these activities of human respect and effort are the congregations that engage people of little or no faith as well as people of other denominations in the work of human progress.
Instead the invocation is to be given by one of the sideshow barkers of the big box Church movement, vying for control of the hordes of hate and selfishness. Dr. Lowery’s benediction will have to be a repudiation.
I just want to give Hilary Rosen some props too. She kicked ass and took names. More like this, please!
May I point out that Jesus commanded his followers to give food to the hungry, water to the thirsty, visit those in prison. To treat the least important person as if he or she were Jesus.
The Good Samaritan was a person who, without caring for recompense, took an injured man and paid for his care and shelter.
Good works come FIRST. 1. They keep people alive. 2. They show unconditional love.
God help us. This man is a very bad man. He is twisting the message of Jesus.
Has Cooper ever talked of this??? Has he been outed, or has he just walked out of the closet?
Big Tent or Triangulation?
Jane, you and the others are simply out to lunch on this and you can’t see it. We don’t take this country forward or grow as individuals by demonizing others, even if they’ve demonized us. (Read that sentence again…)
I can’t believe the intolerance of your message and the comments on this thread. It betrays a fundamental moral and spiritual weakness on everyone’s part. For shame, all of you. Grow up and get a heart.
anderson cooper.
he has always dodged the question. good lookin guy though.
you must be one of them real christians. good fer ya.
Excuse me. Would you suggest to slaves they embrace their masters?
This is a human rights issue, a civil rights issue. You don’t validate the bigots by giving their leader a top slot at the inauguration. “Folding them into the big tent” will not change their zealous minds and hearts. Rather, it diminishes the rest of us.
Anderson Cooper is part of the problem! Wake up Coop, Obama is supposed to SERVE, not RULE…
We need to start some kind of web campaign… where people can make a pledge to boo loudly at the inauguration when Rick Warren speaks.
If the Obama team seriously believes that everyone will boo Warren (if enough people make the pledge), then they would probably re-consider whether or not they want Warren to speak and ruin the mood of the event.
Anyone want to set it up, get the word out, and let me know where I can sign up?
And for days thereafter the MSM will play the footage of the DFHs who marred the historic inauguration of the first African-American president.
Obama marred that historic inauguration when he chose Warren. His decision to install Warren in a prominent symbolic role at the start of his term is a powerful symbolic act: every bit as powerful as choosing NAMBLA’s president to hold the Bible while Obama’s sworn in.
yes… Obama is smarter than me; he may be beginning the “you owe me” in exchange for giving the ambitious Warren an opportunity to be responsible in a larger world rather than sideshow barking in his big box church. No matter- I’ll celebrate when Obama signs the first presidential signing statement to defuse one of the crimminal “laws” Cheney invented. I celebrated election night; the Inaugural marks work big time. I hope Obama works all night executing a well organized action plan. On the 21st I want a new morning in America-no Reagan voiceover.
Sorry folks you were warned about the ONE being a pig. He was and still is an empty suit that the bots are trying to still fill with hopeness and changeness. He is a pig who’s only concern is his self agrandizement. Oh and Jane even though I’m married will you marry me. I love you so much.