I’ve always wanted to be FIRST…

And this sucks

Warren needs to get disinvited. None of us here supported Obama to listen to a Knuckledragger like Warren. If we wanted to hear Warren at the Inaugeration, we’d have voted for Palin.

It’s very hard for a foreigner to read and watch and listen to this. Has Obama given a minute’s thought to the message that the presence and prominence of that guy on inauguration day will be sending to the rest of the world? Not good; srsly not good.

We need to start some kind of web campaign… where people can make a pledge to boo loudly at the inauguration when Rick Warren speaks.

If the Obama team seriously believes that everyone will boo Warren (if enough people make the pledge), then they would probably re-consider whether or not they want Warren to speak and ruin the mood of the event.

Anyone want to set it up, get the word out, and let me know where I can sign up?

…evil cannot be compromised with. It has to be resisted, it has to be overcome.

I agree with this part of his statement, which is why I’m resisting this guy from having any part of the inauguration.

rev talks out of both sides of his mouth – when he’s with the cons he’s gung-ho for bushco and all his policies but tries to soften those views on other outlets… i can’t take his brand of christianity!!! i wish he and his ilk would re-read the words of jesus and try preaching those words….

According to People for the American Way, he has compared homosexuality to incest and pedophilia. (Warren also has said that nonbelievers are indeed going straight to H-E-double hockey sticks.) It’s no surprise that some progressives are mighty ticked off.

[snip]

By sharing his inauguration with this fierce foe of gay rights, Obama has gone too far as co-opter-in-chief.

With Rick Warren, Has Obama Gone Too Far as Co-opter-in-Chief?
By David Corn
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/da…..a-gon.html

It’s skin-deep, vapid theology. Destroy evil, but don’t worry how much evil you do in the process. Condemn torture but not the torturers if they’re American Republicans. Because after all, American Republicans are out to destroy evil.

i suspect that if he (warren) gets enough love like this he may withdraw.

Oh, I’ve changed my mind.
Per MSNBC (via ThinkProg) Rev. Rick served ‘water and donuts’ to gay people.

ooo.

okay, that makes him a great humanitarian. doesn’t it?

Hypothetical: If Rick Warren, Barack Obama, and John McCain all believe that marriage is between one man and one woman then it is conceivable that they would support the next anti-gay proposition ballot that says it would be illegal for a lesbian to become pregnant and give birth unless she could produce a valid marriage certificate proving she was legally married to the birth father. Seems to me this could be their next logical move on the GLBTQ community.

LOL!

don’t hold your breath. He’s into power. period.

so, how much of this exposure do ya think warren can take?

hey, whaddaya doin adding that Q?

Rev. Rick’s political views suck- I think we’ve established that by now.

Enh. I suspect he’s more worried about the shit he’s taking from the snakehandlers than the left. All the crap he’s getting on the left, via criticism of Obama, actually helps him. The fundies consider Warren a little squeamish.

well, he could get a bit too big fer his britches. let’s give him rope and watch the show.

Obama pickin Solis for Labor Secretary- hispanic with a 97% pro labor voting record.

i sputtered when i heard rev say that!!! WTF is that supposed to signify???????

From Obama talking points

• And for the very first time, there will be a group representing the interests of LGBT Americans participating in the Inaugural Parade.

whatch’all gonna do about them?

Wish someone would tear into one of these mega preachers where the hurt is—in their handling of the flock’s cash….then we’d get somewhere.

He’s a chamelion. He won’t give us much of a show to watch thereby making himself seem reasonable.

There’s not much when you scratch the surface—not much other than lust greed, power, and noteriety. He can get that from the reich wing because they are sheep. He can’t get it from us because we aren’t.

OB is paving the way for a one term presidency if he keeps alienating those of us who supported him reluctantly in my case…..

pulezze

Warren quit taking his $110,000 per year salary and paid the church back for all the salary he had ever received. So where did THAT money come from?

that IS the question.

Now this shows some smarts and “getting it:”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..52063.html

Obama team told to not read read Halperin, Politico, et al. Not legit sources of info. Very smart indeed.

The same people saying the same stuff over and over. . . .if it quacks like a duck it’s probably sheep.

“pulezze” what?

his book sales

When I’m elected, Richard Dawkins is giving the invocation.

Seems that the Good Lord’s been VERY, VERY good to Rev. Ricky!

oh yes.

By “resisted” and “overcome,” Warren apparently means we had to bomb, kill, torture and occupy the country we saved from Saddam…

The women and children were collateral damage. Since they weren’t white and Christian TM, Warren believes that their deaths are justified because they were evil by association.

who publishes and who sells?

gotta go—though not because “some people” are dissing me.

sorry, I calls em like I see’s em

How much does Rev. Rick stand to make in incremental books sales after his appearance?

Follow the money!

If you have a Judeo-Christian heritage, you have to believe it when God says that evil cannot be compromised with.

Glenn Greenwald was on Bill Moyers Journal last week and brought up Manicheanism, the doctrine that the world is divided up between Good and Evil. If you are on the side of “Good” then NOTHING you can do is “Evil.” This is the worldview of Bush et al. that we repudiated (I thought) with the last election, and yet here we have it again in this putative changing of the guard. This is not an inclusive view, and this is not what will help restore the reputation of our country in the world. In fact, it sends the opposite message, and a dangerous one at that.

(Here’s the transcript: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..ript1.html).

“If you have a Judeo-Christian heritage, you have to believe it when God says that evil cannot be compromised with. It has to be resisted, it has to be overcome.”
This is why the choice of Warren is so alarming to homos like me. The guy has announced we are to be “overcome.” He has no interest in tolerating us. In fact, he’s declared it would be against the wishes of his God to do so. Why on earth should he be given the microphone at the inauguration of the first black US President in history? I just don’t get it.
Senator “Present” (Obama), how do you include people in your big tent who are quite ready to destroy other people in your big tent, purely based on whom they choose to love? How do you allow your forked tongue position on Prop 8 to be used to harm millions of law abiding Americans?
It don’t add up, unless:
a) Obama is a closet homophobe
b) Obama is blinded by his faith
c) Obama is another typical lying politician who will play other people to get what he wants for himself (see: FISA, Feingold, Wisconsin 2008 Democratic Primary)

That is, I believe, a christian heresy—one promulgated by some early christians.

d) bama is smarter than all of us put together.

The same people saying the same stuff over and over. . . .if it quacks like a duck it’s probably sheep.

And if it carps to no purpose it is probably a bird.

d) bama is smarter than all of us put together.

but is he wise? and what does he use his smarts to accomplish?

oh, and your purpose is?

d) bama is smarter than all of us put together.

Do you have any evidence for this?

The way to get to Rick Warren is to track how his views about gays have changed over time, and how they have not. His position clearly recognizes a political consideration to be apparently tolerant. I think it is just for political advantage. Supporting Aids work does not make him tolerant.

Just as objectionable is his Bush-ite view that their is a bright line between good and evil. For christsake we know better.

If people want to protest his speaking at the inaguration, I would advocate a silent protest. Everyone should turn their back and hiss quietly. I think that would be much better than booing or throwing shoes.

jane on cnn @ 1210 pst.

let me guess, to lead all these non-sheep into the light?

just fillin out the multiple choice.

you have that one covered.

Actually, it was around before Christianity, and ultimately rejected by them (from the transcript):

And it was a very simplistic idea that even early Christianity rejected as not appreciating the complexities of how the world actually is and the ambiguities, the moral ambiguities that characterize who most of us are in most situations. George Bush views the world and his followers viewed the world through this lens of pure good versus pure evil.

You serious? There’s “not much there” with Obama?

Believe me, I’m not thrilled with who he’s surrounding himself with, but he did just run one of the most amazing campaigns in history, and freakin won against all odds when so many, especially around here, were saying it wasn’t possible. And won big.

I’m thrilled that we can all air our opinions in a public way like this, and it’s obvious people will be holding his feet to the fire, but still saying he’s an empty suit motivated by a greedy thirst for power seems a little silly.

Is it possible Obama understands politics more than most of us around here do based on what he’s accomplished in his life?

He’s not the President yet. Yes, I know the appointments have been lame, but I’ll wait to see what kind of policy he starts advancing before write him off completely.

someone once asked a wise man.. Are you wise?

He said. If I said I was I would be a fool. If I say I wasn’t I would be a liar.

Smarter than all the rest of us combined? Ask Russ Feingold how he felt being used as a stooge to win the Wisconsin primary.

If that’s smart, I’d rather be stoopid. Where I come from, it’s slimy, at best.

Pups, please. I haven’t seen such intra-family venom like this since my first marriage. We’re all on the same side, right?

you’ll get NOWWHERE with that here, they made up their non-sheep minds months ago.

shheeeeeet

and what does he use his smarts to accomplish?

Win Presidential elections?

Sorry but if I see one more Warren post, I’ll shit. The auto companies and workers who work for them directly/indirectly are all taken care of? Employee free choice is about to become reality? Health care for all? Everyone has finally realized that there’s no Obama-Blago story? The Obama’s got a puppy? At this point, tehre’s really nothimng anyone can add. Can we go back to stuff that really, really matters?

I guess I can always leave, huh? I’ll look for the next post.

d) bama is smarter than all of us put together.

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa — whoo! That’s a good one. Thank God all us little people are too stoopid to know what’s good for us. I’m so glad we have a leader we can hero worship, ’cause all that thinkin’ we would have to do otherwise would hurt so much… Like Bush, I’m so glad he was sooo much smarter ‘n us too. In fact, lets just scrap our democracy altogether and do as the Romans did… Hail Caesar!

OT to Raven — and you, troop, never replied to my trash talk from yesterday morning.

I’ve got a time-share in Nowhere. Not too bad there.

absolutely. but was that an end or was that a necessary step for some other goal?

Yea, Feingold is all over Obama:

FEINGOLD: Well, of course, the new president, minutes after he’s sworn in, in this wonderful moment — it will be cold out there. It will be short speech. But included in the speech, I would hope, would be some attempt by this new, wonderful president to renounce the extreme claims of executive power. To simply renounce these claims that were made by the Bush administration.

nah, most here want to throw bama out before 012009.

Is it possible Obama understands politics more than most of us around here do based on what he’s accomplished in his life?

The question is not what he can accomplish in his life but for the country.

I’m curious how this ends up playing on the right.

If his invocation comes across as sweet reasonableness, the righties will not be happy, and it could end up being divisive.

If his invocation makes the righties happy, he will look like a loon to the rest of the nation, and contribute to further marginalizing the religious right.

Win-win, I say.

Did Rick Warren try to fuck Obama by allowing McCain to hear the questions in advance? If so, do we have good evidence? If Warren fucked Obama, well… I can’t tolerate that kind of thing dishonesty for political advantage. Is Rick Warren’s intolerance less objectionable than mine?

Nor I since……. well, my current marriage. But anyway, you’re absolutely right. We are. But we can still fight from time to time.

musta had gone to work, didn’t see it. It’s not like SOME of these people that I refuse to enage!

glad ya liked it. :)

Last I checked…but some days you do wonder, don’ya? :-)

Obama’s BFF? WTF?

Redux to Raven — who the hell are these Georgia pretenders that’ll be playin’ my Sparties on New Year’s Day? We’ve definitely got a ‘Ringer’ for ya so go ahead and make plans to go fishing that day.

Three in a row on this topic does seem a little much – in addition to however many there were yesterday.

look at it this way. it gets those thugs out into the sunshine where we can see em. every time this subject comes up it drives posters to the lake. that makes the site $$$ and increases the influence. i believe warren will fall of his own weight despite revdeb’s opinion that he is devious, etc.

I don’t have anything left to say about Rev. Rick—maybe we can get a thread about the Minnesota senate race- THAT will take some brain power to sort out.,

Hope Jane doesn’t get bumped out of her slot………..sanchez is in his lowest element with “developing” caylee story. :-((

must be a slow day.

Watch out for AJ Green! The D is shaky. look for a shootout. I was al the Illinois-MSU game when Gibby caught a deep TD. I was also at the game when we beat Magic, Kelser et al!

five since daybreak

Does this mean that the antique car discussion is over?

Given his life history, his career choices, most of what he’s said on most issues for years, putting himself and family in more danger with his current job (with Michelle’s support), I do think he’s motivated by a desire to make the world a better place moreso than personal gain.

one more refresh and hope it goes through this time.

EPU’d on previous thread:

Someone should ask him if he would consider asking the Grand Dragon of the KKK or Louis Farrakhan (sp?) to speak at his inauguration. If not, why not? Then he might get it.

And

Why does PEBO hate us?

If everyone who would rather not be subjected to the speech by Rick Warren and is going to the inauguration just turned his/her back on him when he talks, would that get the message across?

the lake is getting muddy….. whats going on here??

Oh, yeah, that’s right. Forgot about your Illini roots. Gibby should have gone NFL instead of MLB, imvho. (Sorry for the OT but all this Warren stuff….)

GW Clusterfuck now sayin that he’s gonna help them car makers- into BANKRUPTCY—

don’t help me PLEASE!

we can talk about my 66 chevy fleetside with a 4 bolt main 350 and an Our Lady of Guadalupe gearshift knob.

Jane up next on CNN… A bit late but she is up in the next segment!

Seed spitting contest.

Yeah- that would do.

do think he’s motivated by a desire to make the world a better place

what i’m trying to get at – not very well i guess – is what is obama’s vision of making the world a better place? does it mean people like jeremiah wright are shunned while people like warren are feted and given a bigger soap box? does it mean bailing out wall street but not workers and homeowners? does it mean giving immunity to the telcos but not justice to the people who were spied on? does it mean giving lieberman a chair on the senate homeland security committee but not help for the victims of katrina?

i’m sure bush thinks he’s been making the world a better place too. the issue for me is do i agree with their vision of what better means? i know i disagree with bush’s vision, and it looks like i have a lot to disagree with obama’s vision too.

only if you want my corolla story agin…

sports is good, except when it ain’t…

How bout motorcycles?

There are a lot of cars out there- and the corolla is one.

thanks! no cnn here, will you liveblog?

love em but my bride is spooked so I went with the heavy chevy. My last bike was an Yamaha RD350, first was a Honda 150 Dream

You guys call this fighting?

You should have been around in the good old blogspot days.

Love the old brit bikes from the 60s. BSAs and Triumphs

new thread: The Warren Problem: Jane on CNN

oh the horror!

oh the humanity!

which is it, dis r’ dat?

I’m going to go wayyyyyyyyyyyyy out on a limb and give him a chance to explain further and start his term, then rinse and repeat. Then I shall cogitate further while time flies by my ignorant nose.

Why yes. Some call me crazy, but that has nothing to do with it.

Some call me lazy.

Some call me stoopid.

But enough about me….

jane was great.

mine is a special little 4-wheeled beauty. The rust spots form a map of Alaska, yet it’s never been to Alaska.

;->

I can’t type fast enough to do justice to “Live Blog” but in a nut shell Jane basically said just what she has been saying on the site that the pick of Warren is a slap in the face of all progressives and that Obama is just being cynical so he make the left pissed off which make the right happy and he can Dodge the cannon shots!

707! i was.

Joining y’all late -

to give props to yellowsnapdragon – who scooped everyone on that frickin’ medal when the news broke yesterday

marymccurnin – amen! one can still smell smoke damage over at the archive site :D

thank you, that was very well done! and i understand there will be a youtube in a bit.

Too bad it wasn’t bottled hot water and doughnuts! wtf?!

From all I can gather, the defenses of this are
1) we want to be inclusive
2) he’s not that bad/it could be worse
3) it is not a priority issue

So far, not a single argument holds an ounce of water.
Where do we draw the line for inclusiveness? How much bigotry is OK?
And the priority issue is clearly a red herring. like we can only save the economy by denying gay rights.
STOP THE ELECTION!

earmuffs? u forget the earmuffs?

i prefer my life first-hand…

what’s the definition? is it a moving target?

i shouldn’t feed them? WHOM!?!?

Back later. Snapping turtles luvs murky water with goop-covered deep-dark places. I like snapping turtles. I hate making them mad.

Oye…

Come on my Gay Family Get real. Obama is just like the Rest of the Str People. you people need to all get together and be their when he is being President. and protest his ass. he hates Gay people, and you not getting no Rights. so get used too it. I am from a state where they will never never let Gays have Rights and plus where the Blacks still have no Rights. so Obama you might be President of some states but not here in West Virginia, Kentucky, Tenn,Georgia,

I know it will be cold, but I’m not getting it. Sorry.

trumpets, beezers, Vincent’s and Nortons!

You believe what you believe for whatever the reason. Rick Warren like many others have a basis for our beliefs. The basis is the Bible. Now right or wrong that is the basis. The Bible in both the Old and New Testament call homosexuality as well as many other sexual activities a “sin”. In the Bible God said he hates sin and we will eventually pay the price for it.

That is the “basis” for our beliefs. It has nothing to do with personal choice. What you are doing is asking us to compromise our belief system.

Our belief system does not mean we “hate” people. As a matter of fact Jesus said we should love one another. We love people of all persuasions but we hate the sin.

Jesus said “He is the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the Father but by HIM”.

God made a way for all people and it is at this time of the year that we remember the birth of Jesus. Another name for Him is Emanuel – God with us. He came lived among mankind and then he was sacrificed for our sin.

So you see God did it all for us. He made us, we fell into unbelief, God sent His Son to Die for that unbelief to make a way for eternal life. Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

That is the belief of a Christian. Would you have us to compromise our beliefs? Maybe you would I don’t know, but please don’t say we hate people, because we don’t.

Actually, I don’t think Shrub deep down thinks he’s making the world a better place. It is about personal gain for him and his ilk. For that matter, since about 1994 I’ve felt the Clintons and their DLC brethren are more motivated by personal gain, in money or power, than by “making the world a better place.” This opinion is based upon their action over many years.

I don’t get that sense from Obama based on his actions. If he starts enacting a bunch of Bill Clinton type “reforms,” my opinion will change quickly. But he’s not President yet.

In response to Snowbird2 @ 118

The Bible in both the Old and New Testament call homosexuality as well as many other sexual activities a “sin”. In the Bible God said he hates sin and we will eventually pay the price for it.

The Bible mentions of homosexuality are rare and easily distorted by fundies. The letter to Dr. Laura contain a whole group of weird instructions that the homophobs ignore, like selling girls into slavery, so they can cling to a few oddball verses they use to defend their bigotry.

There is a serious church & state problem Warren and Bush don’t realize or accept. They have the view that their religious directive is above Constitutional Law. That’s fine for a private citizen, but when they take the oath to uphold the Constitution then they have to set their personal religious view aside. Look what it’s gotten us? Bush’s Liberty Project has us ‘freeing’ people in Iraq when we have no valid reason for being there.

I wonder how torturing prisoners comports with his Christian faith.

We will be a lot better off when Bush is out of office.