Recently David Sirota’s been linking to a Fed report that is skeptical of the public justification of the bailout. The entire report is worth reading, but what it basically says is that interbank lending wasn’t frozen, that if LIBOR rates were a bit high, they weren’t all that high, that consumer credit was still being issued and that corporations, on aggregate (there are some individual exceptions) were able to borrow money, as of the time of the bailout.
The charts in the back of the report don’t entirely, in my opinion, support their argument, though they mostly do. In particular there is a huge 200 billion dollar drop in commercial paper outstanding from Sept 10th to October 8th, from about 800 billion to 600 billion. That’s 25% of the market that dried up. With a slight lag, there is a huge spike in 90 day commercial paper rates for non AA, non-financial paper from 3% to 6%, with smaller increases in AA paper.
However, in general they’re right, based on publicly available data, something odd is going on—there shouldn’t be a crisis. Take a look at the top chart above, showing net assets. It’s not that unhealthy (the late spike, I think, is when Paulson forced money down the banks’ throats). Then take a look at the next chart — interbank lending. It peaks in October, then collapses, hitting its lowest rate November 26th. The total collapse is about 27%, in a period of about two months. And bear in mind that the bailout bill was proposed in late September. As of the point when Paulson proposed the bailout, there wasn’t a very large decline in interbank lending.
But then look at the third chart: Bank Credit. That’s the total outstanding loans and securities held. Sure, it peaks in October, but the decline isn’t precipitous by any means. In fact, if you pull out the components, what you find is that loans and leases (the 4th chart) have declined, from their peak in October, by about 57 billion. And again, as of the time of the bailout proposal, they were still rising.
What’s this all mean? Two things. First, according to the official data, the main issues are interbank lending and short term commercial paper. There is not a general tightening of credit to the real economy.
Second: the official numbers are probably not real. Here’s the problem. Net assets are just fine, yet banks are failing. Citigroup had to get hundreds of billions of dollars of loan guarantees and folks in the know generally assume that many banks are functionally bankrupt. The assets on banks’ books have not been properly marked to market or even to income. (If a loan has an income stream I’m happy to book it based on the present value of that income stream, discounted by the expected failure rate of an asset with that level of return.)
But, right now, except to each other, and with the exception of commercial paper, credit is still operating, in aggregate. The fact that banks won’t lend to each other suggests, in part, that they know that each other’s books are cooked. After all, they know what they have on their balance sheets, listed at mark to model (aka: mark to fantasy) and they know other banks have the same crap on their sheets.
The Fed and the Treasury together have spent, loaned, and guaranteed in excess of 8 trillion dollars at this point. That’s more than the entire loans and leases portion of the domestic banking industry. Given the net assets of the banking industry are only about 1.3 trillion dollars, for a fraction of that price, they could have bought out the entire banking industry.
The problem, then, is that we don’t know how large the hole is. According to the banks, there is no hole. On aggregate, they are healthy, indeed their net assets position is healthier than it has been in ages. So either the bailout was a complete scam, when more targeted actions by the Fed would have worked, or the balance sheets are a lie.
I’m going with both. Targeted actions would have fixed the short term problems, and the balance sheets are a lie, and everyone knows they’re a lie. We don’t know how large the hole is, and until we know how large the hole is, we can’t fix it. The Fed needs to promulgate real rules for valuing assets. They need to be clear and fair, rather than "just ignore mark to market so we can all pretend the banks are fine". The current path is exactly the path Japan took, of allowing banks to pretend their assets were good, when they weren’t, with the end result being zombie banks and an entire generation lost from the economy. Those of us who are old enough remember when Japan was the future, with an amazingly dynamic economy, eating everyone’s lunch. You don’t hear that anymore, because they had a huge bubble and then completely bungled their response to it. So far the US is doing essentially what Japan did.
In this light, look at the credit and loan charts again—up, up, up, peak, then slight drop and essentially stagnant. If Japanification takes place, then that’s what will continue. There won’t be a collapse of credit, but new credit will be hard to get, no matter how low theoretical interest rates are. Combine with deflation, and people will just be sitting on their money, doing almost nothing with it, in the expectation that spending money later will be better. But later will never come.
So, is there a crisis? Sure, but it can’t be solved just by throwing money into a deep dark hole whose depth we don’t even know. Banks need to be forced to take their write downs. Yes, doing that will cause much screaming and some very bad days for the market. But once we know how bad it is, we can then decide how to fix it. We’ll know how much money is needed, and once everyone knows which (if any) banks are actually solvent, they’ll be willing to do business with each other again. It’s when you don’t know who’s solvent or not, but suspect everyone, that everything seizes up.
Shutting our eyes and chanting "the problem is fixed, the problem is fixed" and just throwing money about heedlessly without a plan (and lord knows, other than "spend lots of money", Paulson and Bernanke clearly have no plan) is a recipe for, at best, a generation of economic stagnation. At best. At worse, we’re looking at a real depression, because unlike Japan, the US is the world’s lynchpin economy and doesn’t have a trade surplus. Japanification is not a long term sustainable solution for the US.



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Okay, I’m confused. Aren’t the assets in the first graphic (http://static1.firedoglake.com/1/files//2008/12/net-bank-assets-to-dec-3-08.jpg) not to be trusted?
I mean, if they are based in anyway on instruments underpinned by crappy mortgages, isn’t the amount suspect?
The freaky thing here is that no proper audit of the banks who took money was done or if it was, it wasn’t made public.
I sense that such an audit will reveal some very very very bizarre deals that were made and someone was making lots of transaction fees on these deals. In fact the deals don’t seem to matter, since it’s the fees that these “guys” were making off with.
It reminds me of the insurance company “model”. They don’t use premiums to pay off lose claims. They use earnings from INVESTMENTS for that. The premiums can’t make them profitable enough so they need to make money another way – no in the premium loss payoff spread based on actuarial numbers. Banks are the same – they don’t work based on the spread between deposits – interest paid and loans – interest earned.
The model stinks and they don’t want to show it and they know that it would reveal the emperor standing their stark naked.
We’ve been scammed big time and the bail out was another one.
Yup, that’s what I say near the end. But, according to formal stats–they’re fine. When reality and numbers diverge like this, it’s a problem, it destroys trust.
Collateral is not something which brings in revenue to a bank. It’s loan payments and fees. Mortgages are not worth the paper they are written on. What matters is that the payments are made. But the deal is that this is not enough for bankers.
So they sell the mortgages and other loans at a discount to get the cash “up front” for some serious “financial transactions” where they can knock down huge fees. Even the deals are so highly leveraged so the fees are huge. It’s the fees!
Trust is a rubbish concept and if the financial sector is built on “trust” it might as well be built on castles in the air.
What happened the notion of due diligence?
“China warned Wednesday it would not keep lending money to the US economy indefinitely, even as new data showed it had consolidated its position as the top buyer of American government bonds. “China’s increased purchase of US Treasury securities should not be interpreted as an endorsement of the assumption that the US can borrow its way out of the current financial crisis,” the China Daily said in an editorial. The warning from the state-run newspaper, an English-language daily that mainly addresses a foreign audience, came after the US Treasury Department reported a steep increase in Chinese holding of US Treasury bonds.”
Okay, so I wasn’t imagining it, that the loans dropped off because the banks didn’t trust the data either.
Phew.
“When it comes to your tax dollars, Congress should be tight as a miser’s fist. But it isn’t. Not when it comes to the bailouts of the financials and the banking system. Many banks are getting bailout money when they should not qualify for the funds at all. Especially banks that willy nilly chucked loan money at all sorts of commercial real estate projects now mothballed and moth-eaten, vacant lots that, if lined up end to end, would stretch from here to Jupiter. In fact, of the 202 banks that have been approved for capital injections from the government’s $700 bn Troubled Asset Relief Program [TARP], a full 142 are in violation of federal bank risk regulations.”
Okay. You have described the downside of doing what we have been doing (Japanification), what is the relative downside to doing the right thing now; i.e. why are we avoiding making a mark to market real valuation now?
Would it really be worse than what we are doing? Or is it just to shocking for all the whiz bang geniuses to admit they fucked up?
Excellent post by the way.
It was all bullshit from day one –
– nothing but a raid on the treasury. One last score before the their puppets were swept out of power.
Their timing was and execution was perfect. History will mark it down as the greatest robbery (or act of extortion) of all time.
I hate all those silk tie wearing mother fucking republicans.
Trust is the only thing you can base a financial sector on. Trust and Verify, but you can’t examine everything.
It’s an emperor’s clothes situation. Multiple firms would formally go bankrupt, the bill would be formally presented and have to be paid in the light of day. There would be a crash out on the market, and some other issues, but you’d find the bottom and could build from it. I think it’s far preferable, I think we’re just dragging the pain out over a much longer period.
Morgan Stanley earns $3.3 billion hedging its own debt
BNP Paribas Comes Unstuck
BNP Paribas Says Fortis Assets Deal Stalled
ABN AMRO says asset sales to Deutsche Bank invalid
Deutsche Bank Skips Call Option on EU1 Billion Bond
Fresh credit strains in Europe as Deutsche Bank shocks markets
UK Chancellor Darling plans national lending scheme
UK finances slide further into the red
German December Business Confidence Lowest Since 1982
Bank of Canada chief Carney to banks: Lend, don’t hoard
Warnings about Canada’s risky mortgages ignored
Pace of rouble depreciation quickens
On Wall Street, Bonuses, Not Profits, Were Real
Mr. O’Neal, however, got even richer by leaving Merrill Lynch. He was awarded an exit package worth $161 million.
Trust? That’s rubbish… verify or do diligence, but trust?
But the banks would never be allowed to lie about their assets! The regulators simply wouldn’t permit it.
[holds head in hands, wonders whether to laugh or cry]
That is truly obscene. Especially when you think of all the people in need.
Banks assets are not reality based – that’s the problem. It leverage on top of leverage and so there’s no there there.
Look at what Bear was worth in the end.
I think he’s going to spend a lot of time fighting shareholder suites for fraud. After all, really, Merrill didn’t make any profits.
No system of this complexity can work without trust. Yes, trust has to include verification, but you can’t verify everything, it’s impossible.
So…what would happen if we just declared all the CDSs null and void, ordered the mortgage ‘derivatives’ to be put back together and assigned to one collector?
What would happen if ALL of the subprime mortgages were ordered to be ‘re-negotiated’ as a low-interest, 30-year fixed instrument. After all, most people were able to pay them before the interest rates re-set? Since prime is effectively zero – any interest rate would be a profit at this point. Payments made by homeowners staying in their homes would resolve the ‘liquidity’ problem. (Do NOT allow the mortgage holders to add all the fees and extra charges onto the principal – it should be the same as it was before any late payments or foreclosure actions began)
The banks can write down all the fees and charges. Principle should remain unchanged – regardless of the house value. People borrowed the money – after all you don’t get to stop paying for a car just because you wrecked it.
What would happen?
Ian this is insane, trust is something that we all use in everything we do. I trust that the bus will come on time and the driver has a license and so on. Financial instruments were not falling because of lack of trust, they are falling apart because they are total BS and there is nothing there. You wanna bet on the weather for a few tens of millions? That’s not a legitimate financial instrument – but it is in “our” system.
Strange optimism
Why would you think that, if we just knew how big the hole actually was, that it would be small enough to be fixable? I would think the failure of the Fed and Treasury to insist on transparency is, to the contrary, an excellent, almost irrefutable, indicator that the wound to our markets is clearly mortal. The only reason I put in the “almost” is that I think that Bernanke, Paulson and their ilk are the sort of people who, bright as they undoubtedly are, and therefore skilled at maneuvering on intellectually familiar ground, are, precisely because they are so good at thinking inside the system, not the sort of thinkers who are at all comfortable in the present situation, when all their familiar landmarks are under water.
So why the bailout? Who knows. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission will have to figure that one out after the principals are in custody and available for questioning. My best guess right now, before any of them have ratted out their brother rats, is that it was motivated by a similar feeling to the one you have about getting true valuations of bank assets as the beginning of healing. For them, getting the landmarks they deal in, a world in which, say Goldmann-Sachs is on the commandign heights, back above water, was a necessary pre-requisite for them to even be able to think and plan what to do next. Of course, no end of much less worthy motives may have also been at play, and the bailout may have been largely about giving their friends a way to get some value extricated out of markets they recognized as being already doomed, some time before the general public catches on, and the value in these markets goes pop into the 25th Dimension. On the ominous side of possibilities, foreign creditors holding great masses of these junk assets may have phoned in threats sufficient to extort a rescue of their value, lest the creditors get ugly with their US debtor in various ways.
Bankers and investors won’t play unless they can make a killing. Interest spread is not a model theuy can live with. They want to make deals. Big deals ….Very big deals.
i don’t think i know how to read the charts. or if i do, they don’t give enough info. instead of the net assets, are there charts for gross liabilities and assets? i’d like to see, for example, a chart of net assets as a percentage of liabilities. has that number changed?
Ian suggested that we may be facing a generation of economic stagnation, like Japan did… or worse (I fear that he is likely right but I’m still not buying a depression scenario — one where the economy settles into a sustained equilibrium far below full employment… the US is income, not savings dependent as Japan is or we were more so in the late ’20s). I think it’s important to consider what this means. If China resumes growth in a year or two at 8%+ or six times it’s projected rate of labor market expansion, and our economy stagnates for a generation or more at growth on parity with labor market expansion, in 25 years the world will be a fundamentally different place. Not to mention up and comers like Brazil, Southeast Asia, India. And a the prospects of a renewed and energized Europe.
I remember when pundits in 2001 were debating whether shrub, the MBA president, would guide the Clinton boom to a soft landing followed by a healthy rate of sustained growth or whether he would be the president whose depredations marked the beginning of protracted decline of American wealth and power on the global stage. I guess we we now have our answer. shrub, the Imperial President who presided over the end of empire.
They are falling apart because people trusted financial institutions who didn’t deserve the trust, actually.
Such percentages have not significantly changed.
The reason the Fed is not putting numbers on it is because it would a cry for the heads of all their friends. The number one rule in this fiasco has been that the people who got us into it must be left in charge. That would not be possible if the true extent of the damage were both made public and people were forced to take the consequences of it.
It is possible that the hole is too large to fill in, sure. But we just don’t know. I’d like to know. if it is too big to fill in, then formally just saying “fuck it, we’re just writing this crap off” will be the right thing to do, and if it is, we need to know it so we can do it.
I think there was some serious words from the guys offshore buying and holding our “debt” which is how uncle sam works – it borrows money from offshore. Without them, the only option was to print money and give it to them… which is practically what they are doing. But soon the dollar will be in the tank too so have billions of it won’t matter to these dudes. Then they come in and take over the “real property”.
America sold to the clever ones.
Some version of that would probably be a good idea, yes.
I thought these bastards were supposed to be signing off on their books after the Enron mess. They should all be investigated, prosecuted, and incarcerated. They are taking the whole country down hook, line, and sinker. My children’s children will still be digging out of this mess. And where were the fucking concessions from these clowns before they were given NOT loaned hundreds of billions. The more I learn about this, the more I feel sick.
At the end of the day, the US will go into sovereign default if it absolutely must rather than let the Chinese buy up the crown jewels.
Or so I would assume. Hard to be entirely sure, what with the auto bailout stupidity.
trying to explain further what i’m wondering…..
if bank A has a million in net assets this year, same as last year, that doesn’t tell me much if last year there was 2 million in gross assets with 1 million in liabilities and this year there is 1001 million in gross assets and a billion in liabilities. in terms of risk that’s a very different situation.
They are falling apart not because of lack of trust. They are falling apart because they are bankrupt, the caults have nothing in them. They are liars and frauds and can’t pay their bills. And the guys who want to be paid extorted the congress into the TARP.
ok. thanks.
The asset/liability ratio hasn’t changed that significantly. In Nov 07 it was 1.12/1, December 3 it was 1.18
wait a minute – wouldn’t that change with leveraging and deleveraging?
All the wealth that was supposedly created over the past decades is completely illusory. Madoff made off the cash and ran a Ponzi scheme. The others were doing essentially the same thing. POOF goes the wealth. It was never really there.
is that net asset or gross?
OTOH, there are some like Shelby, Bush, and McConnell who would like to see China buy GM and Chrysler and set up shop in China. As long as the UAW gets destroyed.
Gross Assets vs. Gross Liabilities.
One in five U.S. households was behind on its utility bills coming out of last winter, a new survey concludes, raising fears that the current heating season could be even worse. One in 20 households had its utility service terminated in 2007.
So, the gut feeling some had that the financial panic was really an insolvency crisis concentrated in large firms in the financial industry is now backed up by data? Is that right?
For me, the gut feeling was because it seemed that the proximate cause of the panic was the burst of the housing bubble rolling through high leveraged deals.
I read that most of the lending to the real economy has been done by smaller regional and community banks. Are there numbers for that?
Do we know which bank sectors are lending to each other and which are not?
Actually, it’s not supported by the data. According to the data, there shouldn’t be any crisis. There also shouldn’t be any more failed banks than usual.
IOW, the data is clearly crap.
Many car dealers, even BMW and Mercedes-Benz dealers, are about to go out of business.
Might be able to tease out which bank sectors from the data. IIRC, it didn’t seem to be concentrated, though, I’ll look again later.
The current economic crisis, which has its roots in the subprime mortgage crisis in the United States, is now eating its way through the entire German economy, and yet it has been only 13 weeks since the collapse of the investment bank Lehman Brothers. No one could have imagined that this event would shake the global economic system to its core, that mortgage loans bundled into securities would trigger such an economic tsunami, and that the waves could reach as far as the average citizen’s savings accounts in the most provincial parts of Germany. “The globalization of the financial industry reaches much further than many had believed,” says economist Burda.
no we won’t ;-P. We’ll happily sell our crown jewels, mothers, natural resources, children, whatever to whomever so that our plutocrats will be able to avoid the consequences of such a default. And the plantation trust will hail themselves as saviors as a consequence of their enabling just such a fire sale.
But we have not much to worry about here. The Chinese will keep on lending so that, on margin, we’ll keep on buying. They may gradually ease off on the lending, but weaning themselves off our current global dance of death will take time, and the Chinese are in now position to risk prolonging their own slowdown just to take us down with them. For he moment, on the international debt side, it’s status quo fiscal irresponsibility on our part, for the foreseeable future
All confidence within the financial industry has been lost and has yet to be restored. The banks are hording their money. Within the euro zone, for example, banks have roughly €130 billion ($173 billion) on deposit with the European Central Bank, comp
Everyone wanted to sell their stuff to the US, so they all had to take US paper in return. Unfortunately, the paper the US was selling, was fake.
(And most of the goods sold to the Us were crap, too, though not the German stuff. It’ll all be broken in 5 years. In the end, the exporters got paid in counterfeit, and the US got crap in return.)
Recall the meeting between Paulsen/Bernanke and Congressional leaders, when the leaders emerged shaken by what the Admin told them about imminent collapse. I don’t recall we every got any explanation of the exact information that was presented as the basis for immediate action.
thanks. trying to think if i can reconcile that will the net assets chart.
What they were told is that the banks are bust and the game is over unless they put some new clothes on the emporor to carry the kabuki on. Total collapse would not be pretty would it? You critters better do something FAST. Some didn’t buy it, most did. They were sure that the emperor had clothes on. They were true believe. Look at tall the wealth the masters of the unververse had created! Lear Jets and Megayachts!
i thought it was the run on the money markets?
If I interpret the data correctly, I agree the data show no crisis at the time Paulson was trying to sell his 3-pager, and Congress was working on it. After the money started flowing, we have to take that into account and evaluate likely scenarios that might have occured but didn’t.
So, maybe you got my thinking straightend out enough so that I agree with you.
But I am too rusty on the financial analysis to have anything much to say about your analysis, or add anything. I would be very interested if there are any data on the performance of bank sectors not heavily involved in the financial innovation nonsense, vs. those that were. I remember reading anecdotal reports in the business blogs and news that smaller and regional banks have kept the real economy going, and that there was a shut down from larger banks.
I don’t think that would support the idea that the real problem was an insolvency crsis in the large overleveraged part of the industry.
I just cannot think and type at the same time. I meant to say above:
I DO think that (a difference between small regional and bigshot bank sectors) would support the idea that the real problem was an insolvency crsis in the large overleveraged part of the industry.
my view is that it was two, maybe three, separate problems that has converged into a single giant crisis: (I) crisis in the large corporates and most major financal institutions as you mentioned, (ii) the consumer debtor/foreclosure crisis, and (iii) a largely hidden but actually quite cataclysmic crisis in privately held enterprises caused by the cumulative bad decisions of private equity and LBO firms. These have now converged into that big storm in the Day After Tomorrow that’ll pretty much destroy life as we know it.
g nite… I am going to dream world…
Part (iii) of the catastrophe is something outside my ken. What I read about it I understand only very vaguely. Anything I should read for an introduction?
Minnesota U.S. Senate race upstairs
I can’t give you any links… on my iPhone now, but basically, since about 2000, easy bank funds fueled leveraged lending to PE firms, that in turn led to a PE boom. The number of funds increased by some 2000% and bid multiples soared. 4.5x EBITDA companies were sold at 10x multiples and 6x debt, all
on irrational growth expectations. Way too much cash chased after worse and worse deals. Everybody got in on the game. Every CF positive mom and pop industrial – the bedrock of
middle American employment, was tempted into sales (that door and window company the workers took over was one of them). Now, the leverage to roll deals is gone, the companies at being crushed by the debt burden, and the funds are bring forced into emergency equity calls. Disclosure is minimal, but anecdotal evidence suggest that if these unregulated funds were forced to mark to market, we’re talking -70%+ in fund value poof. Expect to see hundreds of thousands of industrial layoffs when this happens.
Yeah, I’m totally expected private equity to crash out next (well, them or hedge funds, not sure who’ll go boom first.)
yep. it’s going to be ugly. my fear is that in PE, the value destruction and bubble
burst has already happened – it’s just hidden in non marked to market fund portfolios. Anecdotal evidence (IFR) suggests they mandatory cash callenate spirally upward without an attendant increase in dealflow or refinancing – usually a clear indicator that something very very bad Is happening. Once the leverage to match or repay those calls is shown to not be available (due to the other two converging crises), the shite will hit the fan and kaboom.
I agree on the hedge funds too, but frankly I don’t care as much about them. Real employment is dependent on the PE funds, thanks to the depradations of the Carlyles of the world. The hedge funds, on the other hand, are just the counterparties of the exotic trash that we already know have already blown up on the balance sheets of the big
banks, insurers and other firms in the real world. I hope these hedge funds die miserably for their part in that.
I am compelled to say that this was a good post.
Ian, since the crisis last month in the big banks, was due in large measure to impending margin calls on OBS credit exotics, then isn’t it possible that your data, based on conditions in the real money market, was still
too far removed to notice a real impact yet? In theory, the portent of problems in the OBS positions of people like Lehman and AIG should’ve changed the shape of the respective yield curves, but it’s possible that much of impending carnage wasn’t properly discounted into mkts yet or, alternatively, were already fully discounted ages ago, in the money market spreads (the latter being less likely)?
I think so too. Something like 500 billion was being withdrawn from money markets (at Citigroup alone, I think) in 24 hours with a change reaction looking like it was escalating. Citi (as we now know) did not have the capacity to redeem all that money and still be solvent. Other banks would have a run on their assests and I honestly believe they thought they whole banking system would have gone down. Interbank loan rates, I do not believe, was the critical worry. It was actually banks breaking the dollar in money funds which would have caused a consumer panic and massive withdrawals.
Whether their solution was the answer is a whole different question, but I do believe Bernanke thought global financial chaos was a few days away.
Impending margin calls wouldn’t show up in assets or liabilities, I would assume (could be wrong though, I’m no accountant.) But actual margin calls would show up. The main thing is, according to these numbers, they have a pretty decent cushion, and that cushion isn’t decreasing.
I think that they know they have a pile of losses, but just are refusing to book them until forced to. The other thing is cash flow. You can have tons of assets, but if you can’t sell them for what you think they’re worth…
I think, actually, that’s probably the crux of the situation. They can pretend they’re not bankrupt until they run out of cash flow.
I suspect that alot of this $$ is going to overseas financial systems. Maybe to bail out the entire world or to sock away a nice nest egg for our rulers ( or both) to retire in EXTREME UNHEARD OF COMFORT for the rest of their unnatural lives and those of their children’s, children’s children.
But that’s just me after 8years of watching these maniacs.
Thanks, Blub, for the tutorial.
I momentarily forgot about the money markets, but wasn’t that taken care of by federal govt. effectively guaranteeing them? That was not the same as the bailout, right?
If I take my concentration off of this for a couple of weeks, I get confused and forgetful, since I’m not that familiar with the financial industry anymore.
that’s what Im saying too… the fact that the their problem liabilities were OBS enabled them (and the money mkts) to fake themselves and each other out, pretending that nothing was wrong, hoping that things would move in their favor up until the moment the OBS calls became became imminent and they couldn’t pretend anymore.. no addition al reserves were available to service those liabilities ’cause of the same ability to deny reality that OBS liabiliies tend to give you. So… boom.
How long have we known there was going to be a mortgage crisis? Did we fing out this year, last year, the year before?
credit derivatives associated with greater supply of bank credit
novista, yep.. right up to the moment they simultaneously blow up every ibank in America (plus one major insurance company). shrub finally found his WMD…. all those OBS credit derivatives, planted like minefields all over the balance sheets of white shoe banks.
Australian economist Steve Keen concluded in late 2005 that the bubble would burst.
Roubini spoke at an IMF conference in 2006 — and they thought he was over-reacting.
Peter Schiff was laughed at on Fox (I think) for his forecast, not sure of date but certainly well ahead of Ben the Barnacle. You know, the April, 2007 classic: “The subprime situation is largely contained.”
This may help, might need a grain of salt :-)
anonymous banker interview
I ask when did we first know of the mortgage crisis because this article is from Nov 2006 and the uk was putting out warnings.
http://business.timesonline.co…..638405.ece
Thanks.
I read this and 9 page article and it made me sick. How can so many, I mean this was a lot of people that did this crap. He mentions going to conferences and I think he said 6,000 attended.
http://www.portfolio.com/news-…..Boom#page1
We need to get Obama into office and let them look at the situation. There may yet be some way to get through this with modifications and the like. It’s hard to tell how well the last month might have gone if Obama had been running the show. If he can’t get a solution going, then we need to change course and find another way, perhaps as you suggested.
I’m not interested in assuming Bushies have done the best they could with this problem. I want to see what Obies might come up with.
Were it only that simple…
If you declare CDSs null and void then some people who played by the rules and weren’t running this scam would be hurt, perhaps unnecessarily. There is a pretty good chance the CDS part of this crisis could work out pretty much alright if we give it time and just fix the toxic mortgage part of the situation.
Putting the mortgages back together is like Humpty Dumpty. It’s all over the world and probably impossible. Dealing with the mortgage servicers is the best chance to solve that while leaving those slivers where they are. But, Congress probably needs to change a law to allow or require the servicers to allow modifications to toxic mortgages. They also need financial incentive probably.
There are also probably many people who have CDSs on mortgage backed CDOs and any kind of write-down, such as HOPE for Homeowners requires, would be worse in their mind than a simple foreclosure and collection of CDS insurance. Yep, their system is great for them, but crap for home owners.
FDIC chair Sheila Bair and some others have said the problem with a large-scale modification is that the variety of mortgages just doesn’t allow it. Personally that would have been my preferred approach: just fix ‘em where they are and then send a notice to everybody with the updated details.
And, actually, I’d like Obama’s people to look at these options closely to see if the Bushies were right.
You could be very right that the 0% interest rate would make this more doable. Good point indeed.
The HOPE for Homeowners program is supposed to be pretty much free and yet the Bushies say there are too many charges, so nobody wants to do it. I wouldn’t put it past them to have screwed it up intentionally. All that needs to be looked at anew.
Leaving home values unchanged is practically a nonstarter since real house prices have dropped significantly. The HOPE idea was to let them write down part of it and fix the mortgage so they can keep the homeowner in the house and making payments. But, as I said some may now have insurance (in CDSs) which screws up everything.
What would happen?
Well, we need Obama’s people to look at it and see if there’s a workable solution before we consider more drastic measures.
Before it’s over Bernie Madoff might look less like a one-off scam and more like all the others.
Elizabeth Warren was on Rachel’s show saying in essessence that these people from the Treasury and the Fed have no fucking clue.
Indeed. May I strongly recommend this most excellent read: http://www.portfolio.com/news-…..om/?page=0
Warning, you might not like what I’m going to write. Look away if you’re offended by conspiracy theories!!!!!
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“No one could have imagined” is the kind of phrase which makes me think someone very much DID imagine this and plan this. If you take another dot from far far away and connect it with Bushies and Wall Street then you get a weird weird connection. Al Qaeda’s plan includes destroying the dollar, and presumably therefore the American economy. Recently Zawahiri (Bin Laden’s lieutenant) has claimed credit for this crisis.
What if AQ was set up to not only provide Bush a reason for the Iraq occupation, but to rape the economy, destroy unions and just make us all miserable. We know many reasons for the economic problems and AQ had nothing to do with it — yet they claim credit.
So, what would be the Bushie reason for destroying the world economy?
Is W simply trying to distract our attention from his utter failure and criminality? Is this to blow up the bank to disguise the robbery which has just occurred? Is this to destroy the Fed Bank, the dollar and everything to leave Bushie gold in command? What do they have in mind?
Remember, this is only conjecture and not to be taken too seriously.
Right. The mortgage backed CDOs are not yet reflecting the housing bubble burst and many are still providing the cash flow. But, there will be a lot of people pushed over a cliff and the cash flows will stop. Those mortgages must be fixed quickly as possible. There’s also some banks which have CDSs so that even if they go over a cliff they’ll claim insurance and come out alright. How dangerous is this situation? If you kill the CDSs you probably kill some banks and exaggerate the crisis.
Government MUST be able to fix mortgages to push that cliff way way off into the distance.
The innocent should not involve themselves in unregulated gambling, and CDSs are unregulated bets. There are two problematic aspects to unregulated gambling:
– enforcement of payoffs (Big Louie from Long Beach guarantees his enforcement work.)
– outcome rigging, e.g., game fixing and insurance arson. (How do you know that the person on whose mortgage I bought this CDS isn’t a friend with whom I’ll split the payoff when he defaults?)
Info below from wiki.
Who the fuck are they going to collect them from? The banks sold these to each other!
There ought to be a nice special office for Mr. Spitzer in the Obama/Holder DOJ.
Transparency is the key bit. Things remain too opaque for investors.
It seems to me that the accounting industry has a lot to answer for. It is pretty clear to me that the standards for accounting for assets, especially financial assets, have failed. Let me try to work out the logic.
If an asset is valued as either the net present value of a stream of future income to the current owner or the current market value of the asset, then the methods of determining either the stream of future income or the methods of determining current market value should give the same result. The only difference should be that the market value is the resultant of a large number of individuals doing the same calculation, worked through individual exchanges between buyers and sellers. (Question. How many buyers and sellers actually calculate the net present value instead of accepting the market value? How many go by gut feel?) Changes in current market value should be caused by changes in the anticipated interest rate for financial assets, with a premium for risk of default or anticipated inflation.
Obviously the two methods are not currently giving the same result, probably because the market itself was being manipulated. At a guess, I’d say that the manipulating was done by manipulating the interest rate.
At the moment it seems reasonable that the freeze on lending is because the risk of default by the organizations who are contracted to make the payments cannot be reliably calculated (calculations by different calculators get different results which cannot be reconciled) or the likelihood of the timing or amount of future payments on each contract is questionable. The latter problem is one of bad – unreliable – data. The two choices differ mostly as a matter of degree, of course.
As long as the organization contracted to make payments has sufficient safety reserves, it can cover defaults on individual contracts paying money owed to it, and when that doesn’t work temporary delays in payments can be worked out. It’s when an organization has used up its capital (safety reserves) and no longer knows who it is that owes it payments is likely to be able to continue to make those payments that an individual organization has become unreliable. Only after that does the entire economic system reach the paralysis that our currently has.
When the entire financial system has no remaining safety reserves and no one any longer knows who will be able to pay what they are contracted to pay next Summer that everyone stops lending money out and instead tries to horde cash. The decisions to stop lending are, of course, decisions by individual banks and not a general overall decision. I think that it was a general recognition that our financial system reached this point that caused the recent freeze on lending.
The accounting system (that is, the accounting profession) is supposed to provide the data that indicates the risks involved in the anticipated stream of future income that is the basis of all these calculations. As long as the process and standards of accounting for assets is both accurate and reliable, the current market value of financial assets should match the net present value of their stream of anticipated payments. Those supposed assets for which such calculations are not reliable should be excluded from the general market. They’ll be offered for sale but no one will buy them. Generally such assets are not even offered for sale in the general market. The big problem today is that it suddenly has become clear that a great deal of what is in the general market actually is such financial garbage.
I’d say that competent accountants are walking into their manager’s offices and saying “I have no clue about what our assets should be valued.” And the managers are saying “Choose the highest possible number or be fired.”
I’m trying to understand this as I write, and I think I have come to agree with Ian. The only way out for the financial system is for everyone who has pushed the numbers towards the most positive to take a bath simultaneously. To do that will require a standardized set of new auditing assumptions about financial assets, all instituted simultaneously by auditors. The requirement for simultaneous implementation of new standards will require legislation, because whoever holds out longest will get the greatest financial advantage as they buy up the earlier losers.
Does any of this make sense? As I said, I am working the logic out as I write. I think I can support each paragraph, but overall is a different issue. What am I missing?
Ian – an unrelated question. How many reviews or drafts to you normally do before posting? You write very clearly, and I cannot believe that you are posting first drafts. Any hint to an aspiring writer would be appreciated. I’d like to do what you do at least a little bit as well as you do it.
Right now the fact that the American dollar is still the safest place to put money is all that is holding up the value of the dollar. When that ceases to be true, then the entire world financial economy is going to go into the tank.
That is just flat scary!
At the moment things are bad here. If the entire world economy goes into the tank, then no one has any clue what is happening or what will get us out of it. It is that fear that is maintaining the value of the dollar.
Because (1) we don’t think that the market is putting accurate real values on assets, and (2) the values the market IS putting on the assets will put our total banking system into the toilet. That will lead to (3) a collapse of the overall economic system.
The two choices need not be the same, but they both result in (3). It’s that fear that has resulted in the paralysis of bank lending from the central banks. Apparently the stronger regional banks not caught up in the real estate mess are not included in this process.
That’s what derivatives do. They totally eliminate transparency.