well the smirking chimp seemed to think it was quite a giggle

Perlstein, another of my idols with feet of clay. And I haven’t even finished reading Nixonland yet. Usually I don’t get disappointed with an author until long after I read a good book.

Considering he’s already had the $@*#% kicked out of him by thugs I mean security forces, I don’t know that we can act as though the norms of a constitutional state are in force here. I’m with you. This is a minor crime. Tell you what, this guy should go to jail when Bush does and for a much longer time for his far more serious crimes.

also find the lack of perspective interesting. Bush is a mass murderer, a war criminal, and people are outraged someone from the country he destroyed threw a shoe at him? That reporter has probably seen thousands of dead bodies, many with signs of torture and rape. Dead kids and women. Certainly some of them were his friends, probably his family. Sure, I think the guy should be tried for assault and given a few days in jail. Perhaps the court, the next day, can start George Bush’s war crimes trial for mass murder, torture and illegal war.
——————-
the chimps pathology(socio) is amazing,he is devoid of feellings

Shorter Perlstein. Proles should keep their mouths shut and keep working for nothing.

hey there hope FRANKEN delivers you a great big WIN for X-MAS

Ian, you have said it better than anyone.

God help us, the mainstream media makes us invisible…or tries.

And Pearlstein is part of that.

Ian, do you happen to remember what happened to the guy who threw the pie into Chretien’s face?

Ian, I actually think Zaidi deserves the Medal of Freedom… Certainly, not the torture he’s undergoing as we speak…!

Liberals should not make light of or license the physical assault on the leader of a sovereign state, no matter how much he’s deservedly hated. This is not how we do politics, unless we’re in favor something tending toward anarchy, or fascism.

Um, did Perlstein somehow forget that Bush invaded the sovereign state of Iraq and hunted down their hated leader and had him killed?

This journalist might spend some time in jail, but he’ll be next to a god in the entire middle east.

If Bush had any sense at all, he’d ask the Iraqis to let him go free right now.

dare i blogwhore my diary on a related subject?

http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/2455

rest assured he has zero sense,or senseability…’g’

Liberals continue to astound me; I hear many neocon talking points coming from their mouths. The propaganda is very insidious.

Our priorities are really out of whack.

So many think Blagojevich should be impeached but don’t care a bit that these war criminals/looters haven’t been and continue to assault our country and the world.

I thought he had been turned over to the Americans – can’t remember where I heard that…

I’m sorry but I’ve been cracking up about this all day. I watched that tape and …. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. OH, oh, {wipes tear} HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Look, the guy missed. No harm, no foul in my book.

This is a humane, decent, and brave guy who snapped. Let’s hope he doesn’t disappear down a black site rabbit hole.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/…..index.html

30 days sentence, 8 days served, unless there were two incidents and I’m forgetting one.

has anybody mentioned that the Illinois House of Reps voted unanimously to initiate impeachment proceedings against Blagoyovich ?

Hi Ian – sorry for the OT…..

Agreed.

Nope, just the one.

I think he has. We know how to do it best, I guess. The guy was already screaming when they had him on the floor.

A friend in Egypt said they played that clip over and over again on the news shoes last night, and huge demonstrations in support of him are happening. If he shows up looking like he was tortured…. not good.

The reasons for Perlstein’s statement are as follows:

Lincoln. Garfield. McKinley. Kennedy.

I’m not counting the times that the presidents survived, either (Reagan, Truman, the plane attacks on the White House during Clinton’s adminstration, etc.).

That being said, Perlstein needs to get a grip. Yes, the fact that the shoe thrower was able to get not one but two shoes flying through the air at Bush — shoes that could probably just as easily have been rocks or knives — shows that the security for the presumed Most Powerful Person In The World wasn’t running on all cylinders yesterday. But locking someone away forever for making a political statement? (Yes, Rick, that’s what the shoes were. Go read up on what tossing shoes at someone means in Islamic culture. Don’t be afraid, it won’t bite.)

Then again, I suppose Perlstein must be extremely happy to hear that the poor guy’s very likely being maimed and tortured, if he isn’t already dead.

#14

Evan Wade Brown was found guilty of assaulting then Prime Minister Jean Chretien with a cream pie on Aug. 16, 2000, in Charlottetown. Brown was given 30 days in jail but he was released after just eight, and eventually had his sentence reduced to a conditional discharge.

Btw, I saw Prince Charles and Princess Di in Charlottetown, PEI…!

Um, if this happened in the U.S. — some guy throws his shoes at another guy — what’s the charge?

Attempted assault? simple assault – the threat of violence being enough to warrant labeling “assault” rather than an attempt?

I think that’s about it, and that would be a worst case. Gotta’ wonder if something in tort law similar to “attractive nuisance” would apply here as a defense.

They need to get him out of office before all the bodies are unearthed and all the skeletons hauled out of the closets. Bear i mind, this is Illinois which is currently going neck and neck with Louisiana for the most corrupt state in the union.

I hope there aren’t “many American liberals” who find this action deserving of a long prison sentence. I really don’t think that’s true, but I am guessing.

I hope he hasn’t been turned over to Americans.

OT………..OMFinnnnngG

Judge signs order to protect Madoff investors
Buzz Up Send

NEW YORK – A federal judge on Monday threw a lifesaver to investors who may have been duped in one of Wall Street’s biggest alleged frauds, saying they need the protection of a special government reserve fund set up to help investors at failed brokerage firms.

it’s not like he threw soccer cleats.

NOW THEY ARE BAILING OUT…ALL THE high rollers WITH WORKING STIFFS MONEY

Um, if this happened in the U.S. ….what’s the charge?

Attempted battery with a stinky weapon?

Ultimately, several folks in the Secret Service need to be fired for allowing that to happen. It is an unacceptable breach of security, even if it is the chimperator. The attacker, on the other hand, did no damage and really should be dealt with lightly.

Perhaps the court, the next day, can start George Bush’s war crimes trial for mass murder, torture and illegal war.

I sure do hope thats a promise Ian! Maybe if/when Shrub visits Canada you can perform a “Citizens” Arrest?? That would warm the cockles of me heart Ian!!! /s

Either way, things will be very, very bad for him.

A Franken win would make my year. He’s another of my idols after reading Lying Liars, and he has not yet developed feet of clay.

No one could have said it better?
Except the part about spiked heel or steel toed work boot. Those are from the comments on an earlier thread.
Or, we’re taping into the same communal pool.
You missed the cowboy boot or military boot reference in the same thread.

How could it have been prevented – given that likely every person in the room was wearing shoes?

the common law does not recognize the doctrine of “attractive fucktard”. Please check statutes in your individual states.

that clip over and over again on the news shoes last night,

Freudian slip…? ;-)

Ian, sorry – I asked my question without fully reading you post.

The Secret Service, until Sunday, never thought of shoes as a weapon. Clearly the occupants of the room had been checked for weapons, and the room was thought secure. I wonder if the White House Press Room will now look like airports everywhere in America: shoeless worker bees shuffling through security portals.

Bush should demand Al-Zeidi’s release; isn’t that the peeance and freeance we’re fighting for over there?

i adore him too,all didgits crossed

Um, if this happened in the U.S. ….what’s the charge?

Attempted battery with a stinky weapon?

That Stinky weapon would be considered a “Weapon of Mass Olfactitation”

Those people took the guy down as if he had just pulled the pin on a grenade.
Or, as if he had another pair of shoes on his other pair of feet.
Both shoes were thrown. What did they think he was going to throw next? Gloves?

Transpose the circumstances. Imagine the target had been a recently elected politician from Illinois and the thrower had been an advocate of armed vigilante justice on the American borders. Or an advocate for criminalizing abortion. Or Karl Rove’s confessor. Would the Wingnuts be clamoring that, “It was only a Birkenstock!” or a sandal? Surely, they might whine, such a firm, fit and slender el presidente should understood that it was a joke, an expression of rights of free speech and association, and that no harm was meant or done?

The Reichwing’s US Attorney in Colorado, after all, refused to indict armed white militants last summer, despite their acknowledged desire and ability to do harm to our potential leader.

The notion of degrees of justice is foreign to the Right. It has freedom from liability for its own, and fire and brimstone and eternal damnation for those who oppose it. Liberals are supposed to be defined by their notions of justice. They believe, above all, in proportionality, in the punishment fitting the crime. They believe in the aspiration that all stand equally before the law, unlike Scooter Libby and his partial pardoner.

Had a cold, gewey cup of Freedom Fries been tossed at a President Sarkozy in a fictional 2003, would we respect his countrymen’s demands that we borrow their guillotine (in a museum, unused since the 1950’s)? That we send the offender to Devil’s Island “for rather a long time”? I think not.

A liberal would advocate assessing the act and its possibility for causing harm, which does not include mere embarrassment; that’s an assumed risk for every politician. We would advocate consideration of mitigating circumstances, such as the recent loss of family members to American military action or recent release from secret prison where his captors had driven him psychotic. We would hope that after a public trial, a jury of his peers might sentence the convicted man to a reasonable period of incarceration or care for an appropriate time. We would not advocate keeping him in a secret prison where he might be routinely beaten or sodomized. Get a grip, Rick.

Is that why you have to take off you shoes in mosques? So no one will pitch one at the iman with a bad sermon?

He threw two shoes. Nobody was watching the crowd for suspicious activity? Taking your shoes off in those circumstances is suspicious. Nobody was watching for someone with a possible weapon in their hand? Maybe the first shoe we can forgive, but the second should never have happened. Remember the attempt on Reagan and how they reacted? Nothing like that happened here and it is sloppy and wrong.

Law which cannot recognize degrees is not justice.

Amen.

But in your takedown of the strawmen in the discussion, you left standing the inevitable noises about a “slippery slope” and “nipping it in the bud,” Ian. These, too, are part of the mythological “law and order” mentality at the center of this mess.

For instance . . .

If you let one angry reporter start throwing shoes during a press conference and he gets away with it, the next thing you know, Helen Thomas is going to start reaching for her feet as she says “Mr. President . . .” and then you’ll get television reporters arguing the merits of loafers versus lace-ups and pumps versus heels.

If the shoe fits throw it!

That’s pretty much it.

lol.

but if they were really a weapon, Bush would never have seen them coming….

Maybe on purpose and someone Was Hoping it was a real weapon??? Inquiring Minds Want To Know???

I guess Ian isn’t here to defend himself.

I’d rather throw my shoes that don’t fit.

I’d like to set up a legal defense fund for the guy.

Many mosques want you to wash your feet too, and, provide the means to do so…!

I’ll buy that – didn’t look like any of security guys even got up until after the second shoe.

Much as I hate the Chimperator, I do not want the SS making those kinds of decisions. We do not need a Praetorian Guard.

Did you ever see Eddie Murphy’s Delirious? It’s a film done of his standup routine circa 1982 or so. In it, he discusses how his mom was an inveterate wearer of spiked-heel shoes, which she could have off her feet, in her hand, and hurled at who- or whatever was offending her at a given moment, far faster than it takes to tell it.

Yup.

Think Progress/Michael Ware:

CNN Baghdad correspondent Michael Ware reports that Muntader al-Zaidi — the Iraqi journalist who threw his shoes at President Bush yesterday during a press conference — “is being investigated for possible charges not connected to assaulting President Bush, but for doing it in front of the Iraqi Prime Minister and hurling the shoes in the Prime Minister’s general direction rather than at President Bush’s head.

I’ve visited 2 mosques and I don’t remember a foot bath. In both people either walked around in socks, or maybe (memory is vague) cheap slip ons were provided.

I hope the footbaths aren’t like that disgusting bleach water we had to step in before entering the swimming pool in my elementary school.

This has to stop.

One of my great regrets is that I’ve never been important enough to be bribed. This year has added another great regret: that I’ve never been rich enough to be bailed out.

“attractive fucktard” — heh.

Now if only he’d been smart and thoughtful instead of a nuisance…I suspect we’d all have much less compassion for the shoe-flinging chap.

Numerous lawyers have volunteered…

“So far around 200 Iraqi and other lawyers, including Americans, have expressed willingness to defend the journalist for free,” the Amman-based Khalil al-Dulaimi told AFP.

I would say it is definitly a sign of a free Iraq, I mean really, did anyone ever hear of someone throwing a shoe at Saddam???

State-side Mosques, right? ;-)

Bush should never have gone to Iraq to take his “victory” lap. It was a direct taunt and insulting to all the people who have died and those who have lost family and friends. The shoe flinger didn’t hurt poor little commander guy so I say he goes free.

I had forgotten that, but now that you mention it . . .

“My mom was like Clint Eastwood with a shoe.”

I think you have the basis for a new and innovative legal doctrine there, BFL.

Yes. 96th & Third Ave in NYC. Built by the Saudis I think. Interesting because everybody thinks Manhattan is a N-S island, but it’s actually almost exactly 45 degrees off. So in order to build a mosque with the relevant end facing east, they had to make it diagonal on the plot. That is against the zoning laws and they apparently had a hard time getting a variance. That mosque is modern.

There’s also a gorgeous more traditional mosque near some of the embassies in DC.

If it were up to Dick Cheney, all the shoes in Washington would be at the bottom of the Potomac. Or he’d hand them out instead of confetti for the inauguration.

Serious risks need to be addressed, and light ones recognized as warning signs that our own behavior as well as the perp’s might be leading to worse things, including over-reacting.

As others have pointed out, the miscues among local and US security staffs shout for attention far more than does a distraught reporter throwing a shoe. As does the level of rage assumed by such a symbolic act. The shoes cover what the local culture considers to be among the least clean body parts; it’s a middle-finger salute from an otherwise professional and accomplished man.

An astute adviser would be less concerned with this reporter’s punishment than with that symbolism. He might argue for clemency, knowing that before that call could be made, the individual would already have been severely punished. That adviser would reflect on the pent-up rage that swept over normally worldly and cynical reporter, such that he put his freedom and well-being at risk to throw an unclean shoe at a foreign head of state. Did he intend to embarrass Bush or his own country? Or both? Rich Perlstein might ponder those questions.

If our client state fails to harshly punish lèse-majesté then I fear the pie’s the limit.

” Liberals should not make light of or license the physical assault on the leader of a sovereign state, no matter how much he’s deservedly hated. This is not how we do politics, unless we’re in favor something tending toward anarchy, or fascism.

This seems open and shut to me: the Iraqi journalist should go to jail for a rather long time.”

Actually, it’s the propensity to magnify a personal insult into a capital crime, along with a disproportional overreaction to slights that are the hallmarks of if not fascism, then a strict hierarchical “honor code” oriented society – not the desire to see proportional punishment.

Ah, crikey. I suppose this means that now everyone will have to attend press conferences and other functions shoeless. “Leave your Crocs at the door.”

Thanks for that.

Is one allowed to bring pies on aircraft?

watertiger upstairs

In my old neighborhood in Chicago, there was a mosque that was converted from an old church (1930s vintage or older). Mostly Pakistanis (most Chicago mosques are voluntarily ethnically segregated). Always knew where to find a taxi on Saturday night. Dozens of them parked all around.

I think the analogous act in DC culture would not have been a middle finger salute from the reporter, but the reporter dropping his trousers. “You want a farewell kiss? Kiss this . . . then kiss it again for the widows, the orphans, and everyone you killed!”

At that point, I think the symbolism of the moment might have dawned upon Bush.

The footwashing thingie is part of the ritual ablutions done before prayer. So you don’t have to wash your feet to enter the mosque – just take of your shoes – but you do need to do it before you pray.

I think there are regional and other differences in precisely how the washing is done. I seem to remember wiping each foot with a wet hand.

Well, no. For then who would guard the mountains of shoes and what might be done with them en masse? If the one percent solution works for WMD and “terror”, then it must include shoes as asymetical weapons of embarrassment, and its wielders to be guilty of capital crimes for even loosening their laces. *g*

Folks. Get a grip. They were SHOES. Not weapons. Two SHOES. The risk of any injury at all to Bush or al-Maliki was approximately nil, and there was no actual injury. Slippery slope arguments from this starting point are just plain silly. What did happen was extremely effective expression of disrespect for Bush, also known as speech, which should according to American Constitutional principles (and I hope Iraqi Constitutional principles) be protected. The guy — a legitimate journalist, let’s keep in mind — is being subjected to “enhanced interrogation techniques” at Camp Cropper because he had the frickin’ temerity to express his boundless and fully well founded contempt for W. Under these police-state-tactic conditions it is IMHO beyond unseemly to even attempt to justify anything other than simple catch-and-release handling in this case.

Presidents ain’t kings.

Religion does have its uses. *g*

Although why Saturday night? The weekly service I went to in Manhattan was 1pm Friday, and it was the Islamic analogue to the RC high mass. (I asked before going. Wanted to get my money’s worth, but then it turned out there was no collection. Those folks have something to learn from Xtians.)

Is there another service later on Friday for Muslims who work?

No kidding! And really, can drive by shoetings be far behind? Bwahahahahaha!

The ritual ablutions portrayed in one of the (fictional)films I saw on the Taliban were highly ritualized.

I wonder whether Shrub is capable of such self-knowledge or learning. Any sixty-ish man who lived through Vietnam, sex, drugs and alcohol, who can’t imagine a single mistake or failing, has never really talked to his God or himself and probably not ever really to his wife or children. Texas is welcome to him; he’ll find a home in Dallas and inspire reruns of Bobby and JR.

shoes as asymmetical weapons of embarrassment

Beautifully put!

In traditional mosques (mostly in the Middle East) it is not ‘wanted’ but part of the ritual of cleansing before prayer as a means of symbolic purification before Allah. The person is expected to wash not only their feet but hands and arms up as far as possible and faces as well. Usually the ‘baths’ are a kind of open trough with running water like a small creek and other dispensers or founts where water pours out for hands and faces. No bleach or other cleansers involved.

Here in this country and if you are just visiting – they just have you remove shoes to go in. But if you are Muslim and attending prayers the ritual washing is part of the deal.

When the guy was announcing that on CNN this morning, he also said that they had been trying to impeach for a year. There is more to this story than we are being told.

Disproportionate force is used to spread fear, and thus ensure strict compliance: “Don’t even think about it, or this could be you” is the subtext. It is the same reason cops routinely beat, torture, and/or kill suspects, why the IRS is so harsh, and why prison rape is officially tolerated in so many places, and even treated like an expected part of a convict’s sentence.

Fear.

“If we only punish the guilty, what will the innocent fear?”
-Josef Stalin

You are probably right. It has been ten years since I lived there. I was thinking each of the Abrahamic faiths had a different Sabbath, but I was probably wrong.

The awe and deference that Republican Presidents receive in America is remarkable.

Fixed.

As it happens, I work (as a software engineer) for a company headed by a couple of Republicans who are absolutely convinced that Obama is an actual Manchurian Candidate, a stealth member of the Weather Underground with possible ties to Islamic terrorism whose election the Supreme Court should have invalidated on grounds that he is in fact not a US citizen, and God knows where his loyalties really lie, but it sure as hell isn’t with us.

No way can I imagine the awe and deference lasting past Inauguration Day 2009.

They’re not. It’s running water. Though I guess it depends where the mosque is…I’ve only visited them in Egypt.

Funnyd

Fear of a Black Planet. Sets ‘em off every single time.

Speaking of da shoes, you knew this would happen sooner or later. I seems to be sooner.

I suspect that that chap would have been much less motivated to throw his footwear…

I never thought Rick Perlstein capable of inspiring such mirth. Thanks, Rick. Seriously, having enjoyed Nixonland, I can’t wait for his Bushworld.

Excellent quote from Joe Stalin. Mr. Cheney must have it engraved on his Purdeys.

yep, so far as I know.

FWIW, the ideal BBB pie would be vegan crust and whipped tofu filling.

In a pinch prepared pies are also most satispieing.

Still wonder which flavor Barry Clausen liked best…..

They watch too much MSM?

People seriously think this guy should do time? For throwing a shoe? Civil liability and a fine, yes, but jail time?

Especially considering he may very well be in the process of being slowly tortured to death right now.

Liberals should not make light of or license the physical assault on the leader of a sovereign state,

Actually a LIBERAL would not value the rights and privileges of someone in authority above that of anyone else. What Perlstein is reminiscing is his love of authoritarianism….when the leader had more rights and privileges than anyone else. That is the sovereign could deem it in his power to kill, while a shoe throwing peasant would “go to jail for a very long time”.

By this measure we’d fill the jails up with circus clowns throwing confetti into crowds, or cheerleaders throwing T-shirts and nerfballs into the stands. Bush Sr. would have been jailed for vomiting into the lap of his Japanese host for insulting his dignity. And I have pictures that establish that Dubya himself undertook far greater assaults (actual battery) with impunity.

And as to whether this actually impugned the dignity of Bush…we’ll there are far more things that this President has done that reduced that to the ultimate nadir of any President.

Actually, I was thinking it would be a great idea to start a lame duck movement whereby individuals send in a pair of old shoes (either their own or purchased from Goodwill or other enterprise) with a note that reads … consider them thrown.

NEW YORK – A federal judge on Monday threw a lifesaver to investors who may have been duped in one of Wall Street’s biggest alleged frauds, saying they need the protection of a special government reserve fund set up to help investors at failed brokerage firms.

A JUDGE wants to socialize the losses? What’s up with that?

If the collapse of these financial frauds are no danger to the economic system, and I can’t see how they would be, then there is no need for government involvement. We don’t protect people against stock market losses or business failures or other legal activities, so why should we protect people from this kind of criminal activity? Of course, restitution can be ordered, but if all the money is truly gone it’s impossible.

The only way I can see government involvement is in clawing back monies Madoff handed out to family & friends just before he turned himself in. Wouldn’t receipt of those monies be receipt of stolen goods?

Supposedly the Iraqis tried to kill Bush Sr. after the Gulf War and now there’s this ‘assault’ on Bush Jr. It shows the Iraqis know right from wrong and what to do to those who do wrong.

However, it’s not good to attack a head of state. That interferes with the ability of states to talk to one another and sometimes leads to war. Bush wouldn’t want a war with Iraq would he?

I suspect the Bush smirk was his sense that it was frivolous and ridiculous, but also possibly his immediate knowing that he’d get to break that man and enjoy doing it.

GREAT post! I am American — always have been. But I haven’t felt “at home” for any of my adult life. I simply don’t feel like Americans do.

Disability forced me to retire early, and in that time, I have had time to think. And I realized a lot of it has to do with how we were indoctrinated in public schools in America. So many out-and-out lies were told. No wonder so many Americans don’t really use logic.

And another thing: If this was SUCH a bad crime — worthy of punishment of YEARS in prison, and immediate torture, why didn’t the Secret Service act?

They simply didn’t see anything wrong. And neither did Bush. Why, if I didn’t know better, I’d think it was all a set-up.

Since shoe tossing at a Lame-Ducking President is taken in history.

How about American send in a worn smelly sock to the White House?

After all, socks will be softer on postal charges and have a stronger aura (statement) when opened.

The Christmas-send=the-President a smelly sock campaign.??

Make some American history of our own?

I totally agree with this.

Your description of the American perspective seems to fit the reality but I think there’s more to it, in terms of politics anyway. We’ve seen recently people arrested who were apparently in the process of working on a method to kill Barack Obama. Were they even charged with a crime, other than the unrelated reason they were stopped by police? Have you read the phrase, “serves at the pleasure of the president” recently in terms of who Obama can appoint or remove from the executive branch? Yet a phrase that Marie Antoinette might have been embarrassed to claim was commonly used to justify removing appointees for actually serving the nation rather than the party.

The deference for the “office of the presidency” only seems to apply to Republican presidents. There was certainly little respect for Clinton. Carter? Don’t make me laugh. Still, there is the memory of the ’60s (and ’70s and ’80s considering Ford and Reagan) where leaders believed that they could, even fleetingly, appear with crowds or in unsecured areas, and they, and the nation, paid an ultimate price. Certainly some of that plays a role in the sense of allowing democracy to be the method to choose and challenge your leaders rather than violence, on whatever level.

You’re right about the unquestioned respect that seems to be required for a president. Maybe it’s the American system, where the leader isn’t directly challenged as it is in a parliamentary system. Raucous debate (Bronx cheering) is common in parliament where the national leader is a regular participant but never allowed toward a president. Not getting up and applauding some thieving policy described during the State of the Union speech is considered gauche. The whole atmosphere of the State of the Union speech is regal with unquestioned deference expected.

Canada does have its quirks though. I once photographed a visiting lord-mayor of Liverpool in the Montreal city hall. I think it was the same guy that gave the Beatles the famous balcony greeting. He had asked if he could meet with the mayor, just on a completely informal, “Hi” level. He asked me what title the mayor had, as in “Your Honor” or “Your Honour.” When I told him the common deferential title was “Your Worship” he was surprised, but quickly adjusted. When in Rome… Oh, the mayor was Drapeau.

completely wrong

Thanks, Ian. DUGG and commented there.
pup34

It seems it’s ok for the USA to depose or kill, any other country’s leader but toss a shoe or a pie at theirs and its prison, for a good long time.

Christ America, your acting like a 6 year old child.

Man, I must wake up before I type. Three lines and 5+ errors.

Respect the office. Respect the office. Bullshit. When a man attains high office in a democracy there is a certain level of respect that is granted to him because of the mandate. But from that point forward, like every other man who walks the earth, respect is earned. By actions. And respect is lost. There is no residual respect for the office when the holder of the office deserves none. To admit to this would enable horribly destructive acts by an incompetent fool. Oh wait, that just happened didn’t it?