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	<title>Comments on: Whistleblower&#8217;s Dilemma:Duty, Honor, Country. . . Or All of the Above?</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/</link>
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		<title>By: acquarius74</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760337</link>
		<dc:creator>acquarius74</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760337</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thank you, Mary.  We’ve all read many documented accounts of the dirty dealings of the NSA/CIA, including murdering their own people who “got out of line” or who appeared to be about to talk.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And, it was the “interest of the national security” that permitted Bush to write the many signing statements and executive orders that have stripped us of our constitutional rights and the rule of law.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The NSA has been virtually regulation-free and above the law from its beginning.  Who dares try to clean it up?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Mary.  We’ve all read many documented accounts of the dirty dealings of the NSA/CIA, including murdering their own people who “got out of line” or who appeared to be about to talk.</p>
<p>And, it was the “interest of the national security” that permitted Bush to write the many signing statements and executive orders that have stripped us of our constitutional rights and the rule of law.</p>
<p>The NSA has been virtually regulation-free and above the law from its beginning.  Who dares try to clean it up?</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760309</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Leen - Tamm was a lawyer who worked with national security information and that’s why he knew he didn’t have an actual whistleblower route that he could take, and I assume (complete with ass possiblities) that’s why he didn’t go that route.  He knew the program was classified at the highest levels - that means agency head of an intel branch at a minimum.  He also knew later that the AG himself was so involved that there was talk of indicting him.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In a so-called “national security” setting, the IG (to whom someone with a complaint or concern would normally turn) is required to contact the heads of the security agencies and at that point, the heads of such agencies can shut down the IG.  The IG  MUST tell the agency head about the complaint, and if the agency head (Tenet, Hayden etc.) chooses they can tell the IG that he/she is prohibited from “from initiating, carrying out, or completing any audit,inspection, or investigation” by simply saying that national security requires that the investigation be shut down.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There’s no real oversight of a nat sec agency head’s decision to shut down the IG in such a situation.  AND there is no protection, in intel/nat sec settings, for the person who went to the IG to start with.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So in a situation where it is pretty clear that the agency heads are involved in the programs, as a practical matter, there is no internal whistleblower route.  There have been efforts to try to address that, but they never carry.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leen &#8211; Tamm was a lawyer who worked with national security information and that’s why he knew he didn’t have an actual whistleblower route that he could take, and I assume (complete with ass possiblities) that’s why he didn’t go that route.  He knew the program was classified at the highest levels &#8211; that means agency head of an intel branch at a minimum.  He also knew later that the AG himself was so involved that there was talk of indicting him.</p>
<p>In a so-called “national security” setting, the IG (to whom someone with a complaint or concern would normally turn) is required to contact the heads of the security agencies and at that point, the heads of such agencies can shut down the IG.  The IG  MUST tell the agency head about the complaint, and if the agency head (Tenet, Hayden etc.) chooses they can tell the IG that he/she is prohibited from “from initiating, carrying out, or completing any audit,inspection, or investigation” by simply saying that national security requires that the investigation be shut down.</p>
<p>There’s no real oversight of a nat sec agency head’s decision to shut down the IG in such a situation.  AND there is no protection, in intel/nat sec settings, for the person who went to the IG to start with.</p>
<p>So in a situation where it is pretty clear that the agency heads are involved in the programs, as a practical matter, there is no internal whistleblower route.  There have been efforts to try to address that, but they never carry.</p>
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		<title>By: texasaggie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760272</link>
		<dc:creator>texasaggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;The thing is that he DID try to complain, but he was told to keep his mouth shut.  His oath is to the Constitution first, and that trumps any law or regulation that in effect protects evildoers (such as the people who were exposed by Mr. Tramm.)  In addition, being labeled top secret doesn’t count if, as in this case, no national security is involved.  The only reason  that this was labeled secret was to protect the perpetrators from going to jail, nothing else.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To suggest that he abused his position by using his own judgment is ridiculous.  It does not take a degree in basketweaving to understand that the “secret” program was illegal and that its perpetrators needed several years of timeout at some government facility.  The people involved knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was illegal, but they, in their megalomania, didn’t care.  No one has ever seriously suggested that the spy program had any legal basis.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for those who feel that he is a traitor, I have to question their loyalty to the US.  The program Mr. Tramm exposed was as illegal as anything could be, but those having a fit about it being exposed don’t seem to care.  Why?  Where is their loyalty?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is that he DID try to complain, but he was told to keep his mouth shut.  His oath is to the Constitution first, and that trumps any law or regulation that in effect protects evildoers (such as the people who were exposed by Mr. Tramm.)  In addition, being labeled top secret doesn’t count if, as in this case, no national security is involved.  The only reason  that this was labeled secret was to protect the perpetrators from going to jail, nothing else.</p>
<p>To suggest that he abused his position by using his own judgment is ridiculous.  It does not take a degree in basketweaving to understand that the “secret” program was illegal and that its perpetrators needed several years of timeout at some government facility.  The people involved knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was illegal, but they, in their megalomania, didn’t care.  No one has ever seriously suggested that the spy program had any legal basis.</p>
<p>As for those who feel that he is a traitor, I have to question their loyalty to the US.  The program Mr. Tramm exposed was as illegal as anything could be, but those having a fit about it being exposed don’t seem to care.  Why?  Where is their loyalty?</p>
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		<title>By: alank</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760255</link>
		<dc:creator>alank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760255</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;J-Men Forever!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J-Men Forever!</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760236</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;The whole concept of the Executive having the power to classify is something that the court has recognized as deriving from the common law.  An equally important concept in the common law was that you could not “legally” (in a manner enforceable by a court) bind someone to participate in or cover up criminal activities. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;These are just some of the many problems that you get when Congress (and remember it wasn’t just Hoekstra and Roberts - Harman, Pelosi, Rockefeller, Reyes,those aren’t Republicans but they have been as devastating to the rule of law as any Republican you can point to) bends over backwards to immunize criminal behaviour.  In large part, they tell not only whistleblowers who reveal the criminal activity, but even more devastatingly, soldiers who would refuse an illegal order, that the behaviour is “allowed” and acceptable and … legalized.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Two years after people sweated blood to get the Dems in office, they are not just an embarassment, they are repulsive.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole concept of the Executive having the power to classify is something that the court has recognized as deriving from the common law.  An equally important concept in the common law was that you could not “legally” (in a manner enforceable by a court) bind someone to participate in or cover up criminal activities. </p>
<p>These are just some of the many problems that you get when Congress (and remember it wasn’t just Hoekstra and Roberts &#8211; Harman, Pelosi, Rockefeller, Reyes,those aren’t Republicans but they have been as devastating to the rule of law as any Republican you can point to) bends over backwards to immunize criminal behaviour.  In large part, they tell not only whistleblowers who reveal the criminal activity, but even more devastatingly, soldiers who would refuse an illegal order, that the behaviour is “allowed” and acceptable and … legalized.</p>
<p>Two years after people sweated blood to get the Dems in office, they are not just an embarassment, they are repulsive.</p>
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		<title>By: Praedor</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760229</link>
		<dc:creator>Praedor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760229</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If you go through channels, as you describe, and they do nothing so that you are forced to go to the press or someone other than the Chair of an Intel Cmte, then you are telegraphing that YOU are the whistleblower and will be the immediate target of harrassment (that is what it is, NOT a legitimate investigation of a “leak” - you CAN’T illegally leak criminal/unconstitutional conduct).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Unless there are strong, un-circumventable whistleblower protections in the law, then going through channels first is just a good way to paint a big target on your back.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Besides STRONG/ABSOLUTE whistleblower protections, the offices that are theoretically responsible for investigating complaints by erstwhile whistleblowers needs to be made truly independent and beyond the control of the office they are attached to and absolutely beyond the control of the President.  In a word, truly independent and free to do what they are in place to do.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you go through channels, as you describe, and they do nothing so that you are forced to go to the press or someone other than the Chair of an Intel Cmte, then you are telegraphing that YOU are the whistleblower and will be the immediate target of harrassment (that is what it is, NOT a legitimate investigation of a “leak” &#8211; you CAN’T illegally leak criminal/unconstitutional conduct).  </p>
<p>Unless there are strong, un-circumventable whistleblower protections in the law, then going through channels first is just a good way to paint a big target on your back.  </p>
<p>Besides STRONG/ABSOLUTE whistleblower protections, the offices that are theoretically responsible for investigating complaints by erstwhile whistleblowers needs to be made truly independent and beyond the control of the office they are attached to and absolutely beyond the control of the President.  In a word, truly independent and free to do what they are in place to do.</p>
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		<title>By: RevBev</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760195</link>
		<dc:creator>RevBev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good luck…sort of like a 12 Step group.  I tried going back to bed; didn’t help, so I may have to get dressed.  What a day.  I don’t usually struggle like this…wet, cold, dreary…so why shouldn’t I want to stay home.  Enjoy the cookies.  ;)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good luck…sort of like a 12 Step group.  I tried going back to bed; didn’t help, so I may have to get dressed.  What a day.  I don’t usually struggle like this…wet, cold, dreary…so why shouldn’t I want to stay home.  Enjoy the cookies.  ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Palli</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760181</link>
		<dc:creator>Palli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Crap  erase comment above skim reading again&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crap  erase comment above skim reading again</p>
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		<title>By: Palli</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760180</link>
		<dc:creator>Palli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760180</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Now she lectures? … if you work for the government you can’t believe in civil liberties?  She had to quit to get the faith…thought this was a faith-based administration/&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now she lectures? … if you work for the government you can’t believe in civil liberties?  She had to quit to get the faith…thought this was a faith-based administration/</p>
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		<title>By: cobernicus</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760172</link>
		<dc:creator>cobernicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/whistleblowers-dilemma-duty-honor-countryor-all-of-the-above/#comment-1760172</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;During his childhood, he played under the desk of J. Edgar Hoover.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Given what we know about J. Edgar, is this something you want on your resume? Or is Michael just casting more aspersions?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>During his childhood, he played under the desk of J. Edgar Hoover.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Given what we know about J. Edgar, is this something you want on your resume? Or is Michael just casting more aspersions?</p>
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