For exposure of misdeeds to have any punitive sting, those responsible for the bad acts must have the capacity to feel shame and remorse for their conduct. Otherwise, what you have is an empty exposure of some true believer behavior, and no real punishment as a result.
Alas, this is what we currently have in a Bush regime wherein those pushing the policies which led to officially-sanctioned torture — in violation of the very laws we, as a nation, fought so hard to establish on human rights grounds — believe they were right to do so and that all those who question their actions are simply wrong.
And nothing will convince them otherwise, because they are, indeed, true believers in their purity. One only need read Jane Mayer’s gripping backstage narratives to know this.
So, the question becomes one of accountability for the actions.
Is exposure so that the nation as a whole can come to its own conclusions about wrongdoing enough? Or must some punishment with teeth enough to get the attention of malefactors in this mess be meted out? What is justice here — and is it even possible to accomplish?
The Iqbal case seeks to answer a number of these surrounding questions, including whether high-level government officials can ever be held to account beyond attempted public shaming through exposure of misdeeds. SCOTUS heard arguments on the case earlier this week:
Mr. Iqbal was among thousands of Muslim men rounded up after the Sept. 11 attacks. Some of them were considered to be “of high interest,” and they were held in a special housing unit of the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn….
There was general agreement among the justices that the bar for starting a lawsuit, however low, must at least include plausibility. But the justices seemed divided over whether it was conceivable that the defendants here created or condoned a policy rooted in unlawful discrimination.
Among those accused of discriminatory policies is Ashcroft and Mueller, and the ensuing argument on the merits of the case got quite heated (and arcane) on the issues of public accountability and official policies versus what Justice Scalia seemed to intimate was a liability exception for bad behavior in times of national crisis:
…justices pondered the reach of civil lawsuits targeting public officials who allegedly abuse civil rights, the ability of the nation’s leaders to go about their work without harassment and whether the balance is altered, in the words of Justice Antonin Scalia, "after an attack on this country of the magnitude of 9/11."
I’d suggest that Justice Scalia, Chief Justice Roberts and the other apologists-come-lately on the Court re-read Korematsu and about its aftermath, but I’m not certain it would do any good given their already seemingly pre-formed mindset on this.
Given the potential impact of decisions in a crisis, shouldn’t the balance skew toward an evaluation of the long-term effects of a lengthy strategy versus what was not merely a short-term emergency measure — and respect for the rule of law versus an internal attempt to circumvent it for the purposes of power consolidation and a wholesale strategy to upend the balance of powers toward the executive not just for an emergency term — but for much, much longer?
Does no one read the federalist versus anti-federalist arguments any more, and the well-founded fears of the use of warfare as a cover for power consolidation in the executive? (Not a new concern, btw.)
Questions about the judiciary being the proper venue for accountability have some merit, in terms of precedent and policy. Which brings us back to the legislative branch: The Senate Armed Services Committee issued a fairly scathing first pass report on Rumsfeld and his various DOD minions who scuttled about to help gut the UCMJ right after 9/11, so they could live out their 24 fantasies in real time. As the report makes clear, their policy scheme endangered American interests:
Moreover, the report stated, these abuses did not keep Americans safe, as the Bush Administration claimed, but actually undermined our national security because they “damaged our ability to collect accurate intelligence that could save lives, strengthened the hand of our enemies, and compromised our moral authority.”
Spencer has covered this here and here, but there is a point brought out by Jack Balkin, pulling from something Ambinder and Glenn have both touched on as well, that I want to amplify. To wit:
…they have much in common with the problems of any number of countries transitioning to democracy from a long record of human rights abuses. These examples show how difficult it is for a country that has violated human rights in the past to stop.
How can the public know that there has been accountability, appropriate weight given to past complicity or a rethinking of past abuses and missteps, when most of what the public would need to know to evaluate those issues is hidden behind a wall of national security secrecy. Sometimes for good reason, certainly, to truly protect assets and information sources and methods, but too frequently for CYA purposes for the folks at the top making the very decisions in question.
As the report clearly said, what has been done has made us less safe. And that does not enhance our national security over the long run, now does it?
If we are truly to make necessary changes, to mend that which is broken and to reform what is in dire need of repair? How do we select people with the necessary background to do the work without knowing where their flaws are? Often, the people most qualified for a job are folks who have previously made mistakes and learned the hard lessons from them — but how can you ever know if lessons were, in fact, learned when so much is kept in a black box?
How can we move forward if we keep planting our feet in the same pool of quicksand?




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One of my questions is this: If all the new AG did was to start proceedings to hold all the various people accountable in the Bush Admins for what they did over the past 8 years…I think we’d need an entire separate DOJ just to get other stuff done at all.
There are so many tough questions involved in all of this. I would feel better if I was certain that people inside the decision-making process were really asking all the hard ones. But I’m not certain, and that makes me very antsy about accountability. Thus, the nudging…
Sociopaths don’t like being embarrassed publicly and called failures at the very least we have achieved that.
Kind hard to excuse spying on Americans or detaining Muslims just for being Muslim if we never went after Ossama?
SIGH — if I were certain…damned subjunctive mood. Never type when you are tired…
Ossama is the justification for spying on Americans. Ossama is the Justification for detaining Muslims so just why did Bush never use any of this Intel he supposedly got to go after Ossama.
How do you justify going after Iraq? The intel was wrong won’t cut it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M…..ganization
My bold 10 years worth of spying before invading Europe even Barbarian hordes plan more than Bush did.
Failure is
not an optionthe only option when you just rush ahead without a plan.You know, Christy, one of the things that I do not understand is how ‘the powers that be’ don’t seem to see that if people are not held accountable, it just destroys the entire system of a rule by law. If these guys are not held accountable, what is to stop other, perhaps lesser and more localized criminals from saying, “you can’t touch me; after all, so and so was reponsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands…”
I think they do see that. But for accountability to occur, there is a cost in terms of what is not getting done. I see the arguments now given the enormous problems we are facing with the economy, with Afghanistan and Iraq and the myriad other messes that Bush is going to leave behind. There are only so many hours in the day to accomplish anything — do you forego economic reforms to make time for accountability hearings? Do you invest that time in fact-finding rather than passing legislation for infrastructure? It’s a real opportunity cost conundrum — but it could be resolved by putting together a sort of Church Commission type group as opposed to leaving it to an existing committee with other responsibilities.
But is there the will to do it? That has to come first and foremost from a public push, I’m afraid — and we aren’t doing nearly enough to push it. Have been trying to come up with a strategy to do just that — but haven’t hit on the right way to do so as yet. If folks have ideas on that, let me know.
Well, we need to educate people to the connection between the operation of the Administration — and what has happened to the economy. That it is all of a piece. Once people see the connection between the corruption/crime/and their wallets, then I think we will get a lot of anger out there directed properly.
We need Obama to investigate this stuff. I suggest get the war profiteers first they are the low hanging fruit the GOP will have a tough time defending them to the public.
America will be looking for someone to blame feed them the war profiteers first this will create a climate to go after the people who OKed no bid contracts.
Then we look at the Mercs, sexual harassment in the army and army attempts to cover it up.
Then we look at rebuild Iraq contracts. Once we got enough wood in the fire of public opinion then we go after the Bushies for torture.
Every fire starts small.
Of course, the operation of the Treasury Dept. in terms of the bailout money is actually helping us in this regard.
Every time the subject of Obama holding W accountable comes up, I type the same thing. One of Obama’s closest legal advisors, Cass Sunstein, has said unequivocably that no one will be held accountable. “We should not criminalize a policy dispute” is one of the many money quotes. I was there when he said it at Netroots Nation.
Don’t get me started on Cass Sunstein. SIGH Nice resume, but a couple oars shy of a full common sense boat…
I was the first questioner to challenge him. Jim White even wrote a diary about it. He was adament. So I think there’s no chance anything will be done. Not only because that is the legal opinion in the Obama camp, but also because it would create WAY too much rancor in the postpartisan world Obama is determined to create.
Maybe we should get you started on him, has FDL done a feature on him? it would be useful.
Sunstein has written a bunch of books. We should try to get him in a book salon. That way we can ask direct questions.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb…..ix=cass+su
seems to me to be the time for international pressure. the folks in iraq/afr, etc who have been harmed should/have to push back. we can just support but have no standing. well, except fer the constitutional issues at hand. i vote fer full acountability by proxy.
Start a truth commission give the small fish immunity for everything they confess to if they *cough* forget something they can be prosecuted.
There will be to many people taking the deal for the Bushies to manage everyone’s story in time.
We should get information that way we never would have gotten with the courts as I doubt anything incriminating will make it past the trash can.
Plus we put the best stuff on C-Span!
BTW, the search function in Oxdown doesn’t work. I just tried to find JimWhite’s diary and none of them come up when you search under his name.
It’s hard for me to imagine any one administration being able to investigate, fix and hold accountable all of the horrors the past administration has left on our doorsteps.
Think about the length of Hugh’s list and the depth of Kucinich’s points of impeachment.
Staggering.
Not to say it shouldn’t be done.
thanks eCAHN
Scott Horton has done a lot of thinking on this subject, and thinks a commission with full subpoena power is the way to go. I think his money quote on DoJ doing it is that they can’t as they were part of the criminal enterprise.
I’ll be very surprised if any such thing happens.
Did you see the Mark Penn book club thread nonanswers! Still asking him embarrassing questions would be fun.
We would need to go over his past record and catch him in a lie. Then have everyone demand he answer the questions.
Purge the DOJ just remove all of them from the case for potential conflict of interest. Unless they cooperate and tell us where the bodies are buried.
Wow, Christy. So much good stuff to read here. Thanks for all the research on this.
I’ve been trying to do some background reading this morning aimed at putting something together regarding a Dick Cheney life-long battle against the CIA. What I’ve read makes me think that George H.W. Bush may be one of the few to fit your criteria of someone who made mistakes and learned from them. Bush Sr. got put into the DCI slot in a Cheney-Rumsfeld power grab, but it appears that he stopped playing ball with Cheney and Rumsfeld not too long after. He eventually only went into Gulf War I when he got all of the international agreements into place.
I think that the final structure that Cheney constructed is responsible for a bit of the current conundrum. He’s chosen a policy of mutually assured destruction. If he goes down, he takes CIA down with him because he got them put in charge of torture after they wouldn’t go along with him to cook intelligence on Iraq. Similarly, by making sure the top-level Democrats signed off on illegal surveillance and torture, he’s made sure that prosecutions carried out appropriately will put top Democrats into almost as much trouble as Bush and Cheney and their top policy makers.
I think a central part of any push we make on prosecutions has to include a willingness to see all of those responsible for these crimes to be prosecuted, regardless of political party. We could lose some of the top democratic leadership, but that would be a crucial step toward telling the world that we will never tolerate these sorts of abuses again.
I think a totally independent investigatory group is the only way forward. It can’t be Congressional because Congress has too much to do to fix the economy and because Congress was complicit in the crimes. It can’t answer to the Executive once it gets going, because many career-level DOJ staff likely are compromised. The investigator(s) must have subpoena power that is backed up by criminal sanctions against those who refuse to comply, although perhaps a compromise could be worked out so that anyone who wishes not to testify could agree to drop out of government service for life.
It would be next to impossible for DOJ to review a lot of this given the complicity of Yoo and others — I know OIG and OPR have looked into aspects of this, but it’s tough to know it all when their mandate and scope of investigation is limited by internal regs.
LHP has talked about this in the past — they can’t go beyond the walls of the agency under investigation. So, in Yoo and other cases, if work came from the outside via Addington or others at DOD or elsewhere? They can’t go beyond the DOJ walls in their investigatory work. Congress has full oversight capacity for the entire executive branch. But will they do a thorough job? When you start looking at the hows and whos, it begins to get depressing, doesn’t it?
Any chance Obama will go after the missing WH emails? We can at least get the GOP on destroying them and other WH documents as destroying evidence and history by law these records should be preserved it should be a slam dunk.
I wouldn’t expect good As. After all, I already had my chance with him in person. The point of having him here is to keep asking the As, so that he’ll know we’re not going to go away. The other 3-4 questioners after me at NN had the same beef. Every one of us got applause. Sunstein was unbending. Gotta keep trying.
Thanks Christy
digg
you are all suggesting internal fixes. ie within the system. the system is broken thanks to the thugs. only outside pressure is going to work. the weakness is our own twisted form of justice right now. they own the system.
Accountability, we can’t count on it.
Have we learned nothing from the Nixon Pardon and Iran/Contra?
Here’s the diary you were looking for. A heroic performance on your part!
Doj won’t cooperate with Obama’s team on the transition, plus you can fire only the political appointees, not civil service and W has burrowed pols under civil service. Plus you can’t strip the DoJ of everyone who knows how to run it. Looseheadprop is adamant on that point. Plus, you’re assuming facts not in evidence: the will to do anything about it.
oo thanks!
Nixon pardon was exactly the context of my Q: “The worst thing that this country ever did in terms of presidential accountability is to pardon President Nixon ….”
Of course that led John Dean, who was another speaker, into the usual paroxysms about how it would have torn the country apart, a hypothesis that is entirely unsupported by evidence imo.
One thing we could do is to link the public anger at the bankers and AIG guys and Wall Streeters who destroyed the financial system. Everybody of every political stripe is angry at those people, but there isn’t going to be any punishment for them. Instead, they walk off with their millions.
The link to those who destroyed our moral standing is the lack of accountability. If we want accountability for the malefactors of great wealth, we should want it for torturers.
After Bernie Madoff, there may be more sympathy with the view that there should be a massive dose of accountability all around.
A couple of weeks ago, I changed the hot link on my name to go to my Oxdown author page. Clicking on any author name in Oxdown gives you a link to their profile and their posts in chronological order.
accountability certainly tops the list of important outcomes of the bush regime crime spree, but exposure for exposure’s sake is also important including the reaction of the criminals that they don’t think they did anything wrong. Information, knowledge are key to prevention, which is the main goal. Bad people are among us and will be among us no matter what happens to the bush regime criminals. Avoiding future disasters is a matter of prevention, as in not letting such people attain the means of destruction, and if they manage to, recognizing and stopping their intentions at the earliest possible date.
Its all well and good that eventually a majority of people figured out what bush, cheney, rumsfeld, rice, powell, and the rest of the criminals did, but the fact of the matter is that people figured this out only after the massive damage was done. The Iraqis and those subject to indefinite detention and torture in particular, but also the residents of New Orleans, all those in America in the midst of financial ruin, and those of us who knew from the available information at the time before the bush criminals did their damage have paid way too high a price for others to acquire this understanding.
Plenty of information was available: in 1999 to know what bush was; in the lead up to the Iraq invasion to know that it was all lies and would be disastrous; and that the seeds of an economic collapse were being sown, to prevent these disasters. But far too many Americans chose to not know or were/are too lazy to seek information from sources other than US corporate media selling the republican/conservative lies.
The message of the information coming out about the bush criminals now is a resounding condemnation of those who in a participatory democracy, choose to shirk their responsibility by remaining ignorant of criminally bad people seeking to abuse the reigns of power.
Without that then only an insider with the goods can get the media on the story we would need another Deep Throat to force Obama’s hand politically and give us the gas we need to light a fire.
We need to find an unhappy passed over Bushie out for revenge.
Here’s Glenn Greenwald on this from his Bill Moyers appearance
Thanks.
Here’s the diary I was talking about.
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/1837
And everybody else click on JimWhite’s name. He’s written a lot on this subject.
And he made it clear the Democrats also should be subject to punishment for wrongdoing:
Sy Hersh sez he’s gots all sorts of people who are going to spill the beans (anonymously I think) after the inauguration. His subject is not exactly what we’re talking about in this post, but there are probably DoJ folks who will talk to other reporters. If stories started getting in the news, it might pressure Obama.
Right. I was watching. Think that Glenn & Scott Horton are thinking along the same lines. You’ll be able to knock me over with a feather if it happens, though.
My feeling is that whatever is done must be done ‘all the way’ – anything else will be just window dressing. And either we ‘do’ it or we don’t. And if we don’t, then we may as well tell the GOP that they won — even though Obama got elected, the GOP still won. Dirty tricks won. Corruption won. War profiteering won. Making war to benefit your friends in the oil industry won. Lying won. Hurting Valerie Plame won. All of that. We lost. They won.
Or, we do the deal. All of it. Every scummy, disgusting, thing gets pulled out and put into the light and examined and whoever did it gets tagged with it. Even if they don’t go to prison. They get tagged with it.
yes! whoever is accountable should be held so.
Ah yes, the old “There will be plenty of time to play the blame game later. Now is not the time” excuse. Except there never comes a time when anyone ever is held accountable for anything. Except Democrats when it comes to sex, of course.
Seems to me there are plenty of committees and subcommittees in Congress on both the House and Senate sides that could jump into these investigations without harming health care and the other issues. And, of course, we’ve got a whole branch of the Executive called the Justice Department that even has a bunch of lawyers and investigators and stuff who could get right on these cases, not to mention a few dozen inspectors general in every agency of the government with not only the mandate to clean up messes like this, but the expertise and tools to do it.
I’m not at all sure what’s left of constitutional government in this country if we simply allow egregious lawbreakers to skate because it might be inconvenient to investigate and prosecute national and international crimes perpetrated in the names of every American.
As I’ve pointed out to anyone who will listen (fewer and fewer people as I get older and older, it seems) every Congresscritter and appointed government official takes an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and uphold the laws of the United States. There’s nothing in those oaths about not playing the blame game or catering to hurt feelings. It’s time they started taking those solemn oaths and affirmations seriously and not like fourth graders quickly reciting the Pledge of Allegiance so they can hurry off to recess.
Beyond frustrating, isn’t it?
Yet another reason why it won’t be done. Obama think he can’t afford to have Pelosi & Reid taken down & W deliberately brought them into the loop to make sure they wouldn’t go after him.
Ah, but since W read in all the D leadership into everything that was illegal, so that congress will do nothing. Devilishly clever of W.
My prediction is that we are going to learn a lot about the last 8 years in the next six months. We will learn all kinds of things about how bad the economy really is. We will learn what authority the legal opinions that “legalized” torture used. We will learn to what extent the government has been spying on us. I could go on and on.
i had the same thing happen before-many times
i even went to the oxdown toolbox, selected advanced search. selected author hit search, nuthin’.
then typed author’s name in search box, hit search, nuthin’.
Can’t get the video to skip to eCHAN’s question.
Morning Christy,
This is another example of our ruling class having no accountability ,whether it’s the president of the USA or the CEO of a major corporation.
The laws only apply to the un-washed masses!
It’s about an hour into the session. IIRC, I couldn’t get it to advance either, so I had to resort to keeping it open on another window with the mute button on until it came up. Pretty lame way to get it “work.”
As to the ramifications of doing nothing – it has already begun. Ignoring subpoenas anyone? We started with Harriet Myers and Karl Rove – and then we got every single person in the Palin/troopergate thing. I am waiting to see lawsuits brought after someone (a regular joe sixpack) is arrested for failing to respond to a subpoena and the defense will be that Myers and Rove and Todd Palin and all the rest of those people didn’t get arrested or anything and they never came and nothing happened……..
And so it goes.
Also – Bushco managed to get stuff inserted in almost every bill passed during his first six years in office to legalize a lot of stuff on the road to the unitary executive. Most people are not aware that it is in there – but those bills need to be gone through with a fine-toothed comb and a lot of that stuff need to be repealed.
Like the bit allowing him to disregard posse comitatus. And declare martial law. And a few others.
That’s the one thing that makes me hopeful, under the theory that things have to get really bad before something is done. However, that does not guaranty that the right thing will get done.
We shall find out how weak our imaginations are. Things will be revealed that are way beyond anything we already know.
Thanks listening now.
thanks, but the search function doesn’t work, so, you need that person’s name to be in a current post to go to their diaries.
i tried to go in to read some of them days later, and i couldn’t access them. only by paging back ‘previous page’ 40 times. finally gave up.
it’s on the to-do list dmac,
and it’s a must do imo for us to make the most of the wonderful resource Oxdown is becoming.
You can google some of the screen names, like mine, and the diaries and comments come up. Didn’t work for JimWhite, as the name is so common that you’ll never find what you’re looking for.
wow. just saw the Scott Horton Interview myself
here’s another from same conference – Burt Neuborne/NYU Brennan Center on why it’s important to “shame” them
note to Christy: my apologies if either of these appear in your post – first cuppa and I’m still working through your links
Mornin’ All !
We need international tribunals, followed by LONG prison sentences. Nothing else will get their attention.
Pelosi and Reed were leaders before Obama was president. And the Republicans are so beaten down right now by what they have caused they have no credibility to tarnish a new president who choses to purge all who were guilty.
Obama has connected with the American people in unique way. He navigated the Clintons and the right wing smear machine. He got people to rise about any racial concerns they may have had and won a very decisive victory by winning the trust of the American people. A trust that would be enhanced by puring the guilty in his party also.
In addition he has a strong and proactive media machine. He gets his message out and around the traditional media.
If he chooses to purge all who are guilty, he can do it and survive as long as the people he brings in are clean.
Oh, I don’t doubt that Obama could do it and survive, or even shine, politically. What I doubt is his will to do it. As evidenced by his process of bringing people together.
What about the Hague Obama will be very embarrassed if the Hague goes after Bush and he does nothing.
Sure the Hague can’t arrest Bush as long as he stays away from Europe but the embarrassment will hurt Obama.
That and foreign lawsuits will be filed in civil court. The Carlyle Group for example Bush’s dad’s hedge fund would see their international assets attached.
Nancy and Harry signed off on some of this stuff the GOP thinks it buys their silence unless we use it to get rid of Harry and Nancy:)
It’s not just The Hague that could do it. As I understand (IANAL) the process, any signator country to the Geneva conventions can bring suit. Not sure whether any meaningful countries will, though, as Obama will bring pressure behind the scenes to prevent them from doing so.
It will be nice to have a President more adept at governing than creating successful criminal conspiracies, I guess. But it would be nicer for a miracle to occur…Maybe Santa will leave spines under the tree for Nancy and Harry Christmas Eve, and they’ll find them and use them and the bad guys will lose and the good guys will win. And maybe if we just had some better good guys it would really happen…
Tom Daschle, Obama’s HHH pick was minority/majority leader in the senate.
A functional federal govt would be nice for a change.
But the longer term future is grim if no one is held accountable.
Should Daschle’s position of leader be in quotes? Did he have any more spine than the current crew?
Bush kind of destroyed our diplomatic cred and ability to bribe member nations.
Still all Obama has to do is not do a UN Veto I assume he can do that in this case.
Then Obama can turn stuff over to them and cooperate. Our Congress could focus on our economy then as we fax the entire Bush library to the UN or the Hague.
The GOP couldn’t stall the investigation then by fillibustering everything.
He did what the rethugs are doing now. The Rs used to call him the obstructionist in chief.
How quickly they (other countries) forget. They’re already caving on taking in Gitmo detainees even before Obama takes office and before U.S. promises to take in some as well, which was the sticking point.
The whole U.N. debacle opened my eyes to how much power U.S. has to bribe/pressure other countries.
NOTHING will happen to GWB he will simply claim executive privilege and ride off into the sunset!
Don’t hold your breathe waiting for some form of accountability it ain’t gonna happen!
The rich and powerful can do anything they want in this country (except maybe murder)
Take a look at the White House or Wall street ,do you see a pattern there?
I’d like to see these people prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law,but I know in reality it ain’t gonna happen !!!
OK. But hasn’t Obama taken obstructionism off the table?
Well, murder in quantity is OK, like a million Iraqis.
Wrote quote. Should be:
Kirk’s up
What Scumbag Would Call The Humane Society “Terrorists”? Rick Berman
He would like to but I don’t think he has much control over the senator from Nissan (Corker), Mitchell, Shelby et al.
Something that has been bugging me for a few years now, and which is directly tied to the way things are done (and left undone) in the Senate is this new it-takes-60-votes-to-do-anything rule. Used to be when I was younger and more fancy free that things in the Senate happened on majority votes unless someone filibustered, at which point an actual filibuster was required, not just the meaningless threat of one. Which considerably reduced the number of the things because they’re hard to do, and God knows, politicians don’t like to do anything hard. But now all a Senator has to do is casually remark he or she might at some point in the indefinite future think about filibustering something, and it suddenly takes 60 votes. Has anyone ever asked Harry Reid why this is, or should be allowed to continue? Clearly, it’s destroying representative government as it was meant to function.
This fine article and the many right on point comments here are so typical of the folks here at FDL. Thank you every one!
I recall the comments I read during the run-up to Nov 4, of those who worked for Obama registering voters, knocking on doors, day after day. As well as those of us who contributed money to his campaign.
I immediately thought of you as a group when I found the following quote by Gandhi when he was asked, “Where are you going?” Gandhi answered, “There go my people, I must run to catch up with them, for I am their leader.”
“Start a truth commission give the small fish immunity for everything they confess to if they *cough* forget something they can be prosecuted.”
And also protect the records, while allowing investigative access to anyone with a legitimate reason for examining them. Block for the time being anyone accused of a potentially criminal act access to government positions or contracts…unless they are willing to undergo an “impeachment” trial. Then those that are convicted can be placed before a criminal hearing.
Amy Goodman and Bill Moyer have done a good job defining the issue. Logistics is not an excuse. Every DA will prosecute the mosy egregious crimes in their district.
Independent council with subpeona power and funds to run an investigation team will attract competent attorneys. John Dean of Noxon WH fame could be a general advisor to the team he is pro impeachment and a republican. What more do you want… house and senate committees to send concerns to that IC?
Christy – a Magnum Opus! You really ought to guest lecture at Law Schools!
You pretty much had already answered your own question of:
with your previous observations:
We have now had 7 years of our AGs and the thousands and thousands of employees of DOJ all either affirmatively advocating for the behaviour that took place, or sitting silent and showing up to work every day for torturers. We’ve had talk radio, FOX, CNN and the the “other” big three of ABC, CBS and NBC making sure that they are “balanced” between calling torture murders and child disappearances and kidnapping stray Canadians as either “enhanced interrogations determined to be lawful by the DOJ” or “questioning of terrorists that saved the nation” or “working closely with unlikely allies”
It’s ingrained now.
If you send children through 7 years of school, telling them that national securty requires that they all gang up and kill the weakest in the class and stew them up for a year end festival, they aren’t going to be very likely to feel shame when it is “exposed” by a news service that … reiterate that killing off the weak children and stewing them up is done because it is necessary for national security.
The press is either “saving up” for their own book deals, putting info out way too late to do anything other than line some personal pockets, or they are getting cut as new services fail, or they are owned by the same Dem interests (like Chuck Schumer – who went out of his way to advocate for torture and who is now meeting with corporate America and reassuring them that if they
line his pocketswork closely with him, they won’t have to worry about crazy liberal crap from the Dems.Oh well, not to worry – we have Clinton (whose husband’s administration started up some of the extraordinary rendition to torture) for Sec of State and Holder, who went on nat news and made sure, post-9/11, that they knew that Dems were in favor of neverending military detentions of anyone that tickled a President’s fancy.
As long as I make a 180 first, I can look forward to all the change.
thanks!
great!!
i agree!