Larry Lessig hates bailouts. So do many people, and with good reason. But his logic, and the logic of much of America, is the belief that we can saw the back half of the Titanic off from the front half of the Titanic. People are thinking small, as if this is a store under some financial pressure, that is going to drop it’s prices. We’ve been locked in a generation where there has been de facto deflation in most of the economy. In computers, in wages, in inexpensive manufactured goods. People could not increase their wages, so they waited. The attitude was that if prices just fall far enough, then money will flow. This is a very paleo-conservative way of thinking, and living in a neo-conservative time with a compression of the middle class.
But this is only true if there is a well of money to become demand. Demand, remember, is desire plus the ability to buy the object, either with credit or savings. The US has no savings and crashing home equity to draw on. Instead we’ve reached an economic race condition. Why is this? It takes time before a drop in materials costs or wages is reflected in a drop in prices, but it is reflected almost immediately as a drop in buying power, and very quickly in foreclosures – which further depress wages. Like hyper-inflation, the danger of deflation is that it will reach a meta-stable state, something which can persist much longer than it ought to.
The original bailout was a terrible bill, and it failed, despite repeated claims to the contrary. However, what is being done here is a bridge loan. The problems with Detroit run deep, and there needs to be restructuring, but bankruptcy would lead to simply destruction. And the next time someone talks about creative destruction to you, remind them that the Great Depression created Hitler.
The real problem in the developed world economy is that everything is expected to be as profitable as drilling for oil in Saudi Arabia, and the United States can keep consuming as if it will never have to pay for what it buys with exports. The era of American fiat money is at an end, and the real inflation in the economy has been asset inflation, which, in turn is driven by the ballooning share of the economy which is turned into profit. Wages need to go up, not down, because people who are making less can’t afford to pay more.
From the collapse of Lehman to the end of this Congress is a span of almost exactly 100 days – it will be remembered as "the Reverse Hundred Days" when an outgoing super-minority party, put a wrecking ball to the American economy and engaged in one last looting expedition while home foreclosures prepared to leap upwards again, and the economic downturn began to ripple across Asia.
Bernanke or Paulson could have supplied this money, the Republicans had no need to filibuster the bill. There are hard lessons to be learned, today’s hard lesson is that Obama’s faith in "post-partisanship" has already been betrayed, the only post that the Republican’s put in partisanship, is the one they intend to ram firmly into the soft white underbelly of American wages.



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That would be: The Bush Depression™ Grips America.
Keep that one close…Rinse, lather, repeat!
“He IS greater than great!” ®2008
Zed….Even Cheney is blaming the Red State GOP’ers.
Cheney: It’s ‘Herbert Hoover’ time if aid to auto industry is rejected
Thanks Stirling.
Thanks to DW Bartoo for opening up the digg
This is the correct link.
And I had always thought that future historians would associate Cheney more with J. Edgar. These are strange times indeed…
I agree that Obama’s “post-partisanship” is dead. I never saw it as viable and recent events amply demonstrate why. But what we are seeing is a systemic failure of leadership: crazy Republicans who double down on every disaster, complicit Democrats who never stand up to anyone or for anything, an idiot media, and an unengaged electorate.
White House:
What time is it kids?
“It’s Herbert Hoover time!”
This is a point worth making again and thinking through. For the last week or so I’ve been pondering the concept of downwardly inflexible ex ante profit expectations as a lever to get inside the current developing depression and the mind-set that got us there and is going to keep us there. It is in analogy to the downardly inflexible nominal wage that since Keynes has been the bread and butter of standard macroeconomic analysis of how an economy responds to a fall-off in aggregate demand.
I understand that the expectation of profit is the goad that gets business people to invest; but 20 percent profit rates? And if they don’t get them, they go on strike?
Bernie “Madeoff” with $50 billion?
I’m betting the entire thing was a mirage. He created statements with the appearance that he was trading stock in the prior month, but he was just holding onto (spending) the cash being pumped in and generating reports and statements that made it appear He’d invested it wisely each month.
As his results (on paper) became legendary, more billionaires forked over their accounts to him.
Imagine the unwitting fraud that occurred when individuals used those numbers to submit their financial statements to borrow money – assuming that the “returns” demonstrated on paper actually existed.
Now where do you suppose this guy learned to think like this? He ran the NASDAQ MARKET.
I’ve been claiming for the past several years that the entire market is the exact same type of ponzi scheme. The actual “money has been stolen. There is no market. It’s all just a mirage.
Buddy, can you spare a billion?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDC0qcf0kzE
Me thinks it is time for Bush to own his failures. It is time to put the trad med on notice. Report the truth or you are going the way of the dinosaur.
NPR just had a segment with David Frum on how to resuscitate the Republican Party. No mention of auto bailout that I heard. I don’t know who was more divorced from reality. Frum for thinking that all that was needed was that the Republican party do a little rebranding. Or NPR for having this goof on the day after Republicans did their damnedest to send the country into depression.
Actually I call it the “Great Bush/Cheney Depression”
Let’s not forget to credit the “real” President.
Since the troglodyte representatives of these Southern states are determined to plunge the Midwest and the rest of the nation into a depression, I think it only fair to spread the misery. In the event of a collapse of GM and Chrysler, the associated people who have a stake in ensuring that the United States has a manufacturing base and a significant number of middle class jobs paying reasonable wages should organize a comprehensive and detailed boycott of all products, services, and tourist money for states whose senators voted against the bridge loan.
That would mean drawing up a list of companies based in those states, corporations who donated to the election or re-election of the senators in those states, agricultural products and finished goods that originate in those states, and posting it on a website where everyone and anyone can pick and choose what products and services they would prefer to buy and use.
So you’re saying the White House’s support of the now dead bill was just “pretend?” Because Paulson could have bailed out detroit all along with the original 700 billion?
Perhaps we are seeing the climax stage of capitalism?
I will be the first to admit that economics is not my forte, but could you please explain what “…downwardly inflexible ex ante profit expectations… means?
I’m thinking that this was mostly kabuki — but if the Republicans could have conned Reid into truly giving away the store, they would have seen it as gravy. (It looks like he figured out yesterday what was up, hence his sudden decision to stop giving away the store.)
The big tip: Bush telling Republican senators, pre-vote, that if they didn’t pass this bill, he’d likely be “forced” to dip into the TARP funds — which is, of course, what he should have done in the first place.
In other words, Bush signaled to the Republican Senate caucus that they could have their base-pleasing “no” votes without the awful consequence of seeing Detroit collapse and take the tottering US economy with it.
Diane Rehm of NPR will have her usual Friday program with pundits and “journalists” talking on current events. Here is some contact info for calling in or dropping an email. The program is at 10:00 a.m. EST. Email and/or call to set the “journalists” straight. They will likely parrotting the Beltway conventional wisdom that will blame the unions for the failure of the bridge loan. Don’t let these hacks get away with it.
Call in: 1-800-433-8850
email: drshow@wamu.org
I wonder if Grover Norquist’s bathtub has room for the Republican Party.
Inflation:
oil (gas, heating, etc)
Health Care
Education
House Prices
Taxes
and a dress that costs a few bucks to make sells for 50 or 100 or $1000
I see your point but deflation on computers and cheap plastic toys and socks does not cut it.
I don’t know if the kabuki was planned out quite that far in advance. I do think that both Bush and the congressional Republicans wanted not to bail out Detroit.
But as it became obvious that they had to do something (namely, key donors were begging the congresscritters to do something), it was decided to let Bush, who was leaving anyway, take the heat from the GOP primary voters (the overall craziness of whom is increasing as the sane folks leave the party) for bailing out Detroit if the bailout bill scam (aka “Can we con Harry Reid into destroying the UAW in the name of saving the auto industry?”) failed in Congress.
My Economic Plan for recovery.
There is just over 300,000,000 people in the US.
Give each adult in the country $500,000.
Tell everyone they have to spend the money in their communities, make their homes energy efficient, buy their new washer, dryer, stove etc, send their children to college, take vacations within the continental US etc..
Give $500,000 for each person to the State(s) budget.
It has to be used for repairing/replacing damaged/failing infrastructure, pollution clean-up, schools, colleges, social services, etc
Simple..
http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html
Thanks, Bluetoe!
There was nothing necessary in the push toward high short term profits and the hollowing out of American companies. But when CEOs rise or fall according to them, when so much of their compensation came from stock options based on them, when investment is favored over wages, when cuts in capital gains taxes and those for the wealthy dump huge amounts of money into a system that could not handle it, spawning a second paper economy, when Wall Street began favoring this bubble economy over the real one, it was inevitable.
Wow, I’m not worthy. Beautifully written. Thank you so much.
Hugh, I agree with most everything that you say, however, you offer very little, if nothing in the way of a way out, an answer, an alternative…. Maybe, that would be a better use of your intellect….
I’m with you on this! It’s why I mostly lurk during these conversations.
Both Democratic Senators from Montana voted against the loan. They were obviously playing to the myth of the “rugged individual against the world” that is alive and well in the West. Democratic jackasses.
UAW Gettlefinger up at 10. You’ll see more on Detroit’s channel than on the other channels.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/story…..JoCag.cspx
No, wait. Failure to display ignorance is not useful. There are more people like me (beyond the confines of FDL) than not, i.e., people who aced economics in college and have absolutely no idea how that happened. So if you can make this simple enough for barbara to understand (she is petty smart, but just not an economist), we have a platform for the country at large.
Don’t just lurk, you have a viewpoint and a valid opinion, you go barbara!
Steve Roberts sitting in for Diane Rehm. Don’t forget to send emails or call in.
Call in: 1-800-433-8850
email: drshow@wamu.org
This is a brilliant idea. How can we get started. Make sure we boycott the auto brands that are built in the respective states as well.
Personally, I would prefer to see the ‘new’ Congress levy a tariff on those Southern ‘foreign’ manufacturers equal to the legacy cost of Big 3 automakers. Let’s level the playing field. Then, if no one buys foreign autos manufactured in the U.S. because of the additional tariff added onto the sticker price, perhaps the Southern ideologs could think further than their own state’s borders.
Instead of calling people West Democratic jackasses, maybe it would be better to understand what motivates them and figure out how to change it?
Treasury Dept has issued a statement that it would be irresponsible to allow auto industry to fail. = MSNBC
Very good starting point!
(Oh, dog, she’s still talking to herself.) One of the things FDL can do (not sure how, though) is to make the economy issue and its solutions accessible to the masses. And that includes responding to the unasked, “What difference does it make? I have mine — at least,
mostsomeresidual piecelets of it. Had a wonderful evening with my 16-year-old grand last night, who was parroting the conservaspeak she hears at home, i.e., it’s all Bill Clinton’s fault.Hoping that legislation (Employee Free Choice Act) will be passed when Obama takes office making it easier to organize unions. When that happens the South will be opened up and the economic traitors in the Senate will be sent to the dust bin of history where they belong with past traitors.
At the end of the day, we, as Democrats and Progressives, can’t let the auto companies die. If we do, we let unions die, and we cut ourselves off at the heart.
I don’t understand how rethugs could object to a car czars and then act like car czars.
barbara, you don’t let that grandchild believe that you aren’t an amazing woman, if you do you rob her/him of an amazing, valuable gift. You.
Jane’s up
Bridge Loan Goes Down In The Senate — What Happens Now?
Sophie, the motivation is simple. It’s called the myth of the rugged individual that grew out of America’s belief in manifest destiny in “settleing” of the west. Perhaps if your liveliehood was on the line you might be a little less dispassionate.
Gettlefinger asked to go into Toyota to see what management, etc get paid Rep’s wouldn’t let them.
Go Gettlefinger.
Gettlefinger I wish you’d say many UAW and retirees are veterans.
“…is reflected almost immediately as a drop in buying power, and very quickly in foreclosures – which further depress wages”
This is a negative feedback loop if it gets stuck…can be quite bad – think of hotter planet leading to a hotter planet and you can see it can cause a meltdown.
She does believe that. But she is getting an earful of GOP talking points at home, and though I love her father with my whole heart (he being my eldest offspring), he is totally off-base, politically. And it is my observation that the worse things get for the Pubs, the more defensive and desperate they become, firing blame like grapeshot and hunkering down to protect themselves at any cost. Even at the cost of the national/global economy. Blame someone, blame someone, blame someone. Heaven forefend we drop that meme and actually combine best efforts of most people to fix the broken beast. Blame later if you must, but stop it, right now, and do something. Big talk. Do . . . what?
I agree. Of course they will scream “protectionism”, but I can’t see how we can ultimately provide any type of equal opportunity and a middle class, without stopping the flow of jobs and production overseas. Additionally, your idea would tend to isolate the South from the rest of the country, as it needs to be until it gets away from the jealousy, regionalism, and ignorance which causes it to sustain the worst versions of the Republican Party. Incidentally, I’m a Texan.
Contrary to your snotty remark, I am currently unemployed, I was layed off months ago. It was not a matter of being dispassionate that I was urging people to question/seek out answers to the questions that plague all of us, it was a matter of pragmatism in understanding, thus hopefully having a clearer view about how to “fix” things.
Gettlefinger just on MSNBC: Sez the GOP put the entire loan success on the back on the UAW. They were supposed to give up everything for it and no one else had to do a thing.
Basically saying the GOP screwed them and duped them.
Sez the Toyota workers in Shelby’s state make a little more with benefits than the UAW in Detroit does. The truth is coming out. And this is making the Rethugs look really BAaaaad.
Gettlefinger is PIpissed. Don’t blame him.
You just give her and them love. That is all you can do. It is also the best medicine. I say sop them in it, blanket them in it. You do the best you can and trust in love to do the rest…
Yeah, he’s pointing the “finger” heh, where it belongs. I can’t imagine why the man isn’t weeping in frustration. Really good stuff here.
Of course good stories/movies can help have an impact. Encouranging your loved ones to visit other countries and thus being exposed to other cultures is a great way of expanding consciousness.
I think it is time for a bit of payback for the states that have been sucking up more than their share of federal dollars and pumping money to Asian auto firms. Specifically, I think that now that we have a blue majority, it is time that the Confederacy stop feeding at the public trough. (And, budget bills are not subject to filibuster.)
2004: per-state ratios of federal spending per dollar of federal tax paid: http://www.taxfoundation.org/f…..060316.pdf
06: Alabama 1.71 (Richard Shelby, Jeff Sessions)
13: Louisana 1.45 (David Vitters)
17: South Carolina 1.38 (Jim Demint)
18: Tennessee 1.30 (Bob Corker)
38: Michigan 0.85
I was trying to say that you are amazing, and deserve great respect. I hope you didn’t believe otherwise.
I was away doing something else. I don’t see reforming the financial system as rocket science. Mostly it is doing commonsense things. Treat capital gains as income. Limit stock options and draw out their pay outs. Redirect tax cuts to lower and middle class Americans. Take caps off FICA. Re-regulate markets and move faster against bubbles. Limit leveraging. Put a fee on stock transactions to limit hedge fund activity (which often accounts for 50% or more of volume on any given day). Re-impose Glass-Steagall. Limit corporate size to avoid too big to fail situations. Nationalize the Fed and ratings functions. Things like that.
Here’s an alternative-utopia, a classless, moneyless society. It is obvious what with globalization and all, that there won’t be enough jobs to go around. There never was. Utopia, opposite of capitalism, tries to get by with as few jobs as necessary to maintain the collective standard of living. Think of how many jobs relate to money-accountants, makers of meters and registers, bookkeepers etc. Now you say utopia is impossible, human nature being what it is, but suppose human nature is a self fulfilling perception, like self image. Then all we need do is change our minds-not the easiest thing in the world.
BINGO!!!
(And ‘bravo’ for having the courage to suggest that human beings ‘make’ their own times, whatever those times may be.)
DW
So the Rep’s don’t want to help Detroit. Is this a race issue? We know there are many blacks in their party. How could they hurt Detroit. The auto co’s have many black workers and retirees. Where’s our our President Elect on this? Yet the white’s at AIG get bonuses. Is Corker prejudice?
Hugh, I offer my most humble apologies. Everything you say and offer here, I totally agree with. Please forgive my ignorance….
Very true, but maybe Hugh offers some hope?
We’d have to register a website, get lists of the donors for those senators and research their financial connections, create a list of businesses in those states, starting with the largest corporations, create a mailing list so people can contact those people, and create a timetable for action. There’s no need to contact Shelby et. al.; they won’t listen to anyone except their contributors. And if there are mass layoffs, there will be a lot of people throughout the midwest with time on their hands and revenge on their minds.
Of course he is. His solutions to problems are very white of him….
I don’t think those corporations should have to pay for their competitors’ agreements. I do think we should have federal statute mandating card check to level the playing field. Furthermore, it could be argued that the federal government should level the playing field so that states who give $200,000+ per job to foreign manufacturers in the form of worker training, land deals, deferred or suspended taxes, etc. don’t have in-state manufactured products with a competitive edge. Alternatively, individual states could levy those taxes against non-US companies.
fwiw, not sure u weren’t being tag-teamed…
BUSH’S DEPRESSION of 2008.
It’s a keeper! Let’s hang it around his neck forever. I referenced your comment in my comment at the DIGG.
BOO, I clicked your DIGG but it leads to a different diary, not Stirling’s.
This sounds like a job for “The Museum of Depressionist Art!