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	<title>Comments on: Stiglitz Says Chapter 11 for Detroit: Here&#8217;s a Better Way</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/</link>
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		<title>By: constantweader</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1757081</link>
		<dc:creator>constantweader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1757081</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The obvious person to bring everyone to the table is Barack Obama.  The auto industry crisis is a perfect example of why we so desperately need someone with Barack Obama’s concensus skills and why John McCain would have been such an utter disaster (even worse than Bush).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Those of us who are sometimes discouraged by Obama’s, well, odd choices for Cabinet &amp; other top jobs, should just chill &amp; think back six weeks when we still had a prospective President whose stated role model was Joe the Plumber (or Sam the Scab or whatever that guy’s name is), and who didn’t have and would never get the first clue about how to negotiate an economic compromise.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Constant Weader at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.RealityChex.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.RealityChex.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The obvious person to bring everyone to the table is Barack Obama.  The auto industry crisis is a perfect example of why we so desperately need someone with Barack Obama’s concensus skills and why John McCain would have been such an utter disaster (even worse than Bush).  </p>
<p>Those of us who are sometimes discouraged by Obama’s, well, odd choices for Cabinet &amp; other top jobs, should just chill &amp; think back six weeks when we still had a prospective President whose stated role model was Joe the Plumber (or Sam the Scab or whatever that guy’s name is), and who didn’t have and would never get the first clue about how to negotiate an economic compromise.</p>
<p>The Constant Weader at <a href="http://www.RealityChex.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.RealityChex.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: victoria2dc</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1757052</link>
		<dc:creator>victoria2dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Question:  I just heard Congressman Miller (yes, Pelosi’s pal) on the Ed Schultz show talking about the auto industry and the Senate Republicans. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He was talking about “bankruptcy” and how the “bonds” are selling. Cerberus Capital and the BushCo pals (doesn’t Poppy Bush also have the Carlyle Group involved here) like former Treasury secretary John Snow and Dan Quayle will, according to Miller, benefit from the bankruptcy. This article seems to be saying the exact opposite! I am totally confused now.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Can anyone explain this story and determine if it’s true?  &lt;a href=&quot;http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=14815112&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=14815112&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;By Robert Farago&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;November 6, 2008 &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The following analysis was sent to TTAC by a New York City bankruptcy lawyer who wishes to remain anonymous. It’s twice as long as our usual editorial, but I think you’ll find it’s well worth your time. Thanks to you-know-who-you-are.] Cerberus Capital, a highly secretive NYC-based vulture investment fund, wants the U.S. government and taxpayers to bailout its failed investment in Chrysler and its failing investment in GMAC. Its partner in this raid on the US Treasury is General Motors, a woefully insolvent automobile manufacturer whose CEO is paid $40k each day. Here’s why a bailout for GM and/or Chrysler is a bad idea.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Background &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Cerberus Capital uses hedge funds as the vehicles in which to invest in various companies. Apparently, the hedge fund known as Cerberus Series 4 is the owner of an 80 percent interest in Chrysler and a related fund owns or controls a 51 percent interest in GMAC. Not surprisingly for a company known for its secrecy, Cerberus has not disclosed which entities actually own the interests in Chrysler and GMAC, has not disclosed what fees Cerberus has taken or accrued from its investments, and has not disclosed what severance payments would have to be made if GM actually acquired Chrysler. For example, would Chrysler CEO Bob Nardelli get another big payday if he’s cut loose in a merger? The interrelationships among GMAC, Chrysler Financial, Cerberus and other entities are also a well-kept secret.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Question:  I just heard Congressman Miller (yes, Pelosi’s pal) on the Ed Schultz show talking about the auto industry and the Senate Republicans. </p>
<p>He was talking about “bankruptcy” and how the “bonds” are selling. Cerberus Capital and the BushCo pals (doesn’t Poppy Bush also have the Carlyle Group involved here) like former Treasury secretary John Snow and Dan Quayle will, according to Miller, benefit from the bankruptcy. This article seems to be saying the exact opposite! I am totally confused now.</p>
<p>Can anyone explain this story and determine if it’s true?  <a href="http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=14815112" rel="nofollow">http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=14815112</a></p>
<p>By Robert Farago<br /><strong>November 6, 2008 </strong></p>
<blockquote><p>The following analysis was sent to TTAC by a New York City bankruptcy lawyer who wishes to remain anonymous. It’s twice as long as our usual editorial, but I think you’ll find it’s well worth your time. Thanks to you-know-who-you-are.] Cerberus Capital, a highly secretive NYC-based vulture investment fund, wants the U.S. government and taxpayers to bailout its failed investment in Chrysler and its failing investment in GMAC. Its partner in this raid on the US Treasury is General Motors, a woefully insolvent automobile manufacturer whose CEO is paid $40k each day. Here’s why a bailout for GM and/or Chrysler is a bad idea.</p>
<p>Background </p>
<p>Cerberus Capital uses hedge funds as the vehicles in which to invest in various companies. Apparently, the hedge fund known as Cerberus Series 4 is the owner of an 80 percent interest in Chrysler and a related fund owns or controls a 51 percent interest in GMAC. Not surprisingly for a company known for its secrecy, Cerberus has not disclosed which entities actually own the interests in Chrysler and GMAC, has not disclosed what fees Cerberus has taken or accrued from its investments, and has not disclosed what severance payments would have to be made if GM actually acquired Chrysler. For example, would Chrysler CEO Bob Nardelli get another big payday if he’s cut loose in a merger? The interrelationships among GMAC, Chrysler Financial, Cerberus and other entities are also a well-kept secret.</p>
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		<title>By: bluebutterfly</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1757021</link>
		<dc:creator>bluebutterfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Is anyone actually looking at the actual records of GM, or are bailout decisions being made from only the testimony given at the White House? The Quarterly GM balance sheet does not appear to show a crisis.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=GM&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=GM&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is anyone actually looking at the actual records of GM, or are bailout decisions being made from only the testimony given at the White House? The Quarterly GM balance sheet does not appear to show a crisis.</p>
<p><a href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=GM" rel="nofollow">http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=GM</a></p>
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		<title>By: Knut</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1757014</link>
		<dc:creator>Knut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1757014</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Yesterday, on one of the news channels, I saw a piece about a potential new form of energy from water with some other common elements like salt. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sounds like warm piss to me.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Yesterday, on one of the news channels, I saw a piece about a potential new form of energy from water with some other common elements like salt. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Sounds like warm piss to me.</p>
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		<title>By: sunshine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1757005</link>
		<dc:creator>sunshine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Gettlefinger said GM would have to liquidate, not go bankrupt.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gettlefinger said GM would have to liquidate, not go bankrupt.</p>
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		<title>By: jonerik</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1757000</link>
		<dc:creator>jonerik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ian, you say 80% of consumers won’t buy a car from a bankrupt company. But that’s not saying they won’t buy cars from a company in bankruptcy. Technically ch. 11 is all about restructuring, not liquidation (ch. 7) which is what a “bankrupt company” would be. I think people know the difference because we’ve seen a lot of airlines in ch. 11 bankruptcy and people don;t stop flying on airlines in ch. 11. I think your gloom and doom prognosticating is a bit over the top. Who really knows how bad off these three auto manufacturer really are and how much has been scare talk to arm twist a favorable bail out?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, you say 80% of consumers won’t buy a car from a bankrupt company. But that’s not saying they won’t buy cars from a company in bankruptcy. Technically ch. 11 is all about restructuring, not liquidation (ch. 7) which is what a “bankrupt company” would be. I think people know the difference because we’ve seen a lot of airlines in ch. 11 bankruptcy and people don;t stop flying on airlines in ch. 11. I think your gloom and doom prognosticating is a bit over the top. Who really knows how bad off these three auto manufacturer really are and how much has been scare talk to arm twist a favorable bail out?</p>
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		<title>By: IntelVet</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1756997</link>
		<dc:creator>IntelVet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;About taxes?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Does anyone have a rough idea, or even a way to find out, how much in the way of federal, state and local taxes went to entice foreign manufacturers to set up plants in “their” area?  Would or would that not be considered a subsidy for foreign auto manufacturers?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To me, it sees GM is asking for a one-time subsidy whereas foreign manufacturers have been sucking at the tax teat for quite a while, pardon the expression.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About taxes?</p>
<p>Does anyone have a rough idea, or even a way to find out, how much in the way of federal, state and local taxes went to entice foreign manufacturers to set up plants in “their” area?  Would or would that not be considered a subsidy for foreign auto manufacturers?</p>
<p>To me, it sees GM is asking for a one-time subsidy whereas foreign manufacturers have been sucking at the tax teat for quite a while, pardon the expression.</p>
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		<title>By: dick c</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1756995</link>
		<dc:creator>dick c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1756995</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“Units” are vehicles.  We may get to “units” as a euphemism for people before too long though.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Units” are vehicles.  We may get to “units” as a euphemism for people before too long though.</p>
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		<title>By: sunshine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1756959</link>
		<dc:creator>sunshine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1756959</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Is this “Units” people?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;250,000 units of production will be cut during the first quarter of 2009.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this “Units” people?</p>
<blockquote><p>250,000 units of production will be cut during the first quarter of 2009.</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: sunshine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1756958</link>
		<dc:creator>sunshine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/12/stiglitz-says-chapter-11-for-detroit-heres-a-better-way/#comment-1756958</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;DETROIT, Mich. (WXYZ) - General Motors has confirmed another round of production cuts.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;GM announced that 20 assembly plants in the United States, Canada and Mexico will drastically reduce production. 250,000 units of production will be cut during the first quarter of 2009.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Some of the plants will be idled for one to two weeks, while others will be idled for five weeks or more. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The announcement of more cuts comes after a bill to provide $14 billion in emergency aid was rejected in the Senate late Thursday night.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;GM has already announced it would lay off 2,000 workers at plants in Orion Township, Lordstown, Ohio, and Oshawa Ontario due to the financial crisis.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Meantime, GM is waiting for word on whether the White House will step in to help prevent the collapse auto industry. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wxyz.com/news/local/story/BREAKING-GM-to-Slash-Production/GfAT0_a3N0CihkK7UHW6ew.cspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.wxyz.com/news/local.....HW6ew.cspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>DETROIT, Mich. (WXYZ) &#8211; General Motors has confirmed another round of production cuts.</p>
<p>GM announced that 20 assembly plants in the United States, Canada and Mexico will drastically reduce production. 250,000 units of production will be cut during the first quarter of 2009.</p>
<p>Some of the plants will be idled for one to two weeks, while others will be idled for five weeks or more. </p>
<p>The announcement of more cuts comes after a bill to provide $14 billion in emergency aid was rejected in the Senate late Thursday night.</p>
<p>GM has already announced it would lay off 2,000 workers at plants in Orion Township, Lordstown, Ohio, and Oshawa Ontario due to the financial crisis.</p>
<p>Meantime, GM is waiting for word on whether the White House will step in to help prevent the collapse auto industry. </p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.wxyz.com/news/local/story/BREAKING-GM-to-Slash-Production/GfAT0_a3N0CihkK7UHW6ew.cspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.wxyz.com/news/local&#8230;..HW6ew.cspx</a></p>
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