Image by Twolf
The auto plan, as currently written, gives the Auto Czar the absolute ability to decide if he or she likes the auto restructuring plan presented by the Big 3. If the Czar doesn’t, the loans can be immediately recalled, which would cause the companies to go under immediately. Added to the ability to approve or disapprove of any expenditure in excess of 25 billion, and this puts a ton of power in one person’s hands.
That person does not answer to Congress and is chosen by the current President: George W. Bush. As best I can tell, the next president will not be able to fire him, though Obama could ask for his resignation, I guess. I don’t think the Czar would have to give it, however.
I cannot imagine that any Auto Czar appointed by Bush would not make it a priority to make the companies viable by breaking the unions and probably by ditching the companies’ pension obligations. As best I can tell, then, this bill’s effect will be to ensure that both of things happen.
Obviously the bill is this bad because Bush will veto anything that doesn’t let him break the unions. Indeed, Bush is even making noises about how this bill doesn’t go far enough in ensuring viability of the companies going forward, which I think is the administration’s way of saying "let’s make it even more explicit, just in case my auto Czar isn’t loyal to me once I’m gone".
At this point, the only thing I can think of that might work is to lean hard on Bernanke.
Either Bernanke or Paulson could snap their fingers and make the problem go away, by just lending the necessary money to the car companies through their finance companies (why not, they’ve made every other financial institution a bank). Making the finance companies banks would be smart anyway, they are having trouble financing cars because of tight credit, but if they had access to the Fed window, they could reopen the spigots that way, which would be good for them and good for the economy.
Bernanke probably doesn’t want to be asked to step down, publicly, January 20th. Of course, he should be asked to do so, but avoiding the breaking of the unions and the offloading pension obligations onto the public purse might be a worthwhile price for allowing him to stay on a while longer and then leave gracefully. I’d suggest that some back channel hints are probably needed. Bernanke needs to remember that Obama is the future and Bush is the past, and that Bernanke’s going to have to work with Obama very soon, not Bush.
Related posts:
- Rattner’s Bailout: Steve Still Lacks Knowledge of Auto Industry, Self-Awareness
- Auto Retirees were Promised Health Care; GM Deal Breaks the Promise
- The Advantages and Pitfalls of Auto Bailouts
- Name FDL’s Newest Blog about Labor, Workers, and Unions
- Exclusive: New Poll Shows Clear Majorities Distrust Big Corporations, Favor Unions
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I am not an economist by any stretch but wouldn’t breaking the unions, and specifically trashing the existing retirement plans wind up costing the Government massive amounts more than it would cost to just work in good faith to help them out here?
Breaking the union may be the ultimate goal but I do believe that would be a disasterous mistake.
Of course that didn’t stop St. Ronnie, may he rot in Hell.
But wouldn’t this allow Cerberus to feed at the public trough, given the fact that its the PE owner of Chrysler and parts of GMAC?
(Not arguing; I just need to better understand what’s at play here. Thx.)
If the car companies can hang on until Jan 20 then Obama could have treasury issue funds from TARP. He could also have treasury forward enough tarp funds to pay off those moneys advanced under this bill and byebye mr czar
wtf are the dems doing? ian – are you sure that obama and pelosi and frank are really trying to prevent the breaking of the union?
What does W or his corp buddies care about that? If they break the auto unions, it’s the death knell of all unions and all corps will be able to hire more cheaply. That’s what they’re after.
It might, yes, but do you think Bush isn’t willing to pay a lot of money to break unions?
I’m surprisingly good with our leaning hard on Bernanke. Let’s do it.
Yes, it would. You’d have to make sure they weren’t lending that money to themselves, but hey, everyone else is…
So much for the Peoples House! Anyone for a country wide, one day general protest strike?
Bingo! about the rotting in hell part!
W doesn’t care what the consequences are for taxpayers. He’s after lining the pockets of the corps.
and not his own money.
What’s the immediate payoff for breaking the union, Pension money?
The republicans in this country won’t be satisfied until every job in America is filled with illegal aliens and when that doesn’t work, they want all jobs to go overseas, so America will become a 3rd world nation where everyone eats out of trash cans to survive.
i’m beginning to think it really is primarily a culture war (as i think jane has been writing).
When would the plans have to be put into effect? Could they not put forth a plan, stall any action on unions until January 20th. Obama immediately releases enough Tarp funds for the auto companies to cover the 35 billion PLUS the loans, with no Czar oversight. Automakers immediately pay back those funds which are returned to the program that they came from and go for the green initiatives as originally planned. Czar is immediately fired because there are no funds for him to oversee.
Digg it
Pensions are guaranteed by the Federal Government at discounts of course. IIRC, Pensioners would receive 75 percent of their current benefit (which would hurt them). There are many who were basically forced into early retirement. Some are ten years too young for Social Security. A pensioner told me recently, but I may be wrong on the amount of the discount.
Republican congresswoman on Hardball is reciting the Republican talking points–let the car companies go into bankruptcy, then renegotiate contracts–including union contracts. In other words, screw the unions.
Okey, dokey then. Confirmation that such lunatic notions are, in fact, consistent with ‘economic reality’ in our freemarketeering modern life at least leaves me with the sense that being ‘nuts’ is a rational response to the irrational logic by which things operate in the Free Market.
I feel oh, so much better now… 8^p
Here’s hoping Sen Chris Dodd ramps up into OutrageMode and rips into Paulson and Bernacke before another month passes…
Eff Cerberus.
Not a penny for private banksters who made dumb-ass investments.
culture war = politically correct term for class war
Polish a turd, it’s still a turd.
I’m not shy about calling this an “us against them” situation. How else does one describe a situation where those with money and power attempt to turn those who don’t into little more than slave labourers? What we now call middle class will be titled “overseers.”
Want a job? 2 bucks an hour, take it or leave it. There are a 1000 in line waiting to say yes.
So the Decider is going to name an “Auto Czar?” Brownie is surely available. As former head of the Arabian horse association he has experience in transportation.
and there were also those ice trucks…
I saw your comment about the IWW when I came home for lunch. Their site has all the straight info. Different concept than the union organization we’re used to. I like it better.
PBGC is rapidly going broke after the steel and airline industry laid off their pension obligations on it. Those obligations are minuscule compared to what’s coming from the auto industry. The only question regarding PBGC is when, not if, the taxpayers will have to bail it out.
Sirota’s assessment (People Party/Money Party) explains what is happening now. The Democratic wing of the Money Party’s job is to say “this is the best we can do” as they latch the barn door after the horses have bolted. It is strictly PR and crowd control, not good faith (you didn’t see this sturm und drang when they ponied up $700 b. to their masters, did you?).
DINO’s, with Barney Frank leading the charge,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..39908.html
played the same game with TARP.
Does anyone question his intelligence or understanding of Republican mendacity? Certainly not.
The only rationale alternative is DINO’s are in on the game.
I understand this view is anathema, but keep watching the scoreboard.
As a lapsed member I agree with your take. Thought you might post links for others that weren’t familiar with the IWW, one union that didn’t sell out for the brass ring offered by the owners and always just out of the reach of the workers.
You won’t get any argument from me. Protect the corporate entities at all costs. To us.
”That person does not answer to Congress and is chosen by the current President: George W. Bush. As best I can tell, the next president will not be able to fire him, though Obama could ask for his resignation, I guess. I don’t think the Czar would have to give it, however.”
This is incomprehensible to me. Just who can fire him…is he not responsible to either the Legislative OR Executive Branch? I can only think that such a provision would be UnConstitutional…unless that stricture was written into the Constitution. Is there any parallel to this (head of the Federal Reserve, perhaps)?
In addition, all Executive Department posts are subject to impeachment. So there is some legislative controla over ANY executive post (or judicial one for that matter).
I thought the payoff was in having a global economy wherein we work for the same $2/hr that the Chinese and the people in the Marianna Islands or Indonesia work for.
I can’t figure out what democratic congresspeople could be thinking letting this happen on their watch. Without the unions, there will be no democratic party, and I can tell you that union people have long memories, especially when it concerns people messing with their livelihood or their pension savings!
Obama has been elected to the highest position in the plutocracy and he will likely follow the first and only rule of the plutocracy, whatever you do protect the plutocracy.
I don’t watch much teevee, but has anyone offered up an estimate of the lost tax revenue in the event of failure ?!?
I’m thinking it’s in cutting off your nose and gouging out your eyes to spite your face territory
am loving your posting on this Ian – thanks !
IMO, best link is the IWW site itself, wiki has a nice article on history, etc. Reminds me, I gotta pay my dues for the next 3 months.
This is just further evidence of a cultural war. The Republicans would prefer to leave a union-free pile of rubble as long as those living on it don’t believe in evolution, a woman’s right to control her own body, or same-sex marriage. What keeps getting lost in the shuffle is that the Democrats are perfectly willing to let them do it.
Let’s face it. How many Democrats have we heard say word one about unions? Or asking why Republicans don’t give a shit about protecting American jobs and American workers? How many Democrats have we seen turn to a camera and say, Republicans want to take your job away from you? This is a debate where Democrats have let Republicans do all the framing. I doubt it was by accident.
I would like to know just what this fascination is with appointing all these ‘czars’ with no oversight or accountability to ‘run’ all these programs and departments. I thought the czars were gotten rid of in the Bolshevik revolution – another revolution because the fat cats got too big and fat and the proletariat finally had enough and went for the torches and pitchforks.
Hmmmm…
Ds don’t need no f’g unions any more now that their deeply into the corps pockets.
which side are you on?
i actually like the weavers version better, but this youtube is from howie
If it hasn’t been mentioned before, this is the Shock Doctrine in action.
1. Advance money from TARP to Big 2 1/2
2. Big 2 1/2 pay off funds advanced under this bill
3. Car czar go home
If active and retired union members lose their pensions there will be blood in the streets.
Bingo Hugh
It’s just a haircut according to Pelosi. And everybody is taking a haircut. /s
the the Spanish Prisoner con
The way this is going how country will soon be producing more czars than cars.
Unions supported Obama and encouraged their members to vote for him in spite of personal perceptions or belief systems. Obama was the bonafide Union candidate.
I hope Obama doesn’t shiv the unions. I’m not holding my breath.
See Greenwald on Obama and CIA Director Hayden.
Haircut is one thing, taking a scalp is another.
The retirement is funded = According to accounting practices it is at 100% according to Govt it is short by 31%
omg, when did Speaker Antoinette say that ?!?!
How about Pete Seeger solo? One Weaver’s better than none.
Ya think?
Why aren’t they in the streets now? After the fact just wont work.
At today’s presser to announce the “deal.”
I campaigned for O and his biggest support in Michigan was union members, police, fire, auto, teachers, teamsters, service employees. If he allows the destruction of the labor movement he will have a 1 term administration, thankfully.
I believe in the French Revolution aristocrats also took a haircut but theirs ended at the shoulders. It looks like this is what both Democrats and Republicans have in mind for the UAW.
thank you!
I just wish that someone would point out – and loudly – that the UAW has been doing give-backs to the Big 2.5 for the last three rounds of negotiations. In fact, by 2010 under the current incarnation – union members will be making LESS than non-union import workers (Toyota, Honda, BMW) in the south.
So, explain to me please why the UAW members should have to take ANY kind of a haircut?
GM was supposed to fund a new pension plan that was to be run by the UAW. They so far have not contributed a dime. Due to the financial mess, the union leadership said they could wait a while. WTF????
something i’ve heard naomi klein talk about recently (will try to find a link) is that the shock doctrine has also been used during time of change that was good – the example she gives is the ending of apartheid in south africa. while everyone was celebrating agreements were made to keep the economic system intact – which meant that the country’s wealth stayed in the hands of the rich white minority.
we need to work on becoming shock proof – so we see the pattens early and are prepared, at least mentally…
Methinks Pelosi has forgotten that California is home to some of the biggest unions in the country. CALPERS, CNA, SEIU, UFW, etc just to name a few.
Hoyer is from one of those so-called ‘right to work’ states – clueless.
Hope the MI and OH delegations pound on their heads.
Absolutely good point. A shock is a shock – no matter whether good or bad. It serves the purpose.
My pleasure.
So where’s the union solidarity over the auto bridge loan. I don’t see any. CA will soon bust the public unions anyhow, given the budget crisis.
The UAW has no charismatic dynamic mouthpiece that can layout the argument in language everyone can understaned
and consequently they are losing the PR war. No Walter Ruether, no Joe Hill, no John Lewis, no Big Bill Haywood no Norman Thomas, no Upton Sinclair, no John Steinbeck.
Meanwhile Zell’s overleveraged buyout of the Chicago Tribune has forced that company into bankruptcy. The need to make newspapers smaller, cheaper, etc. is all the talk, not Zell’s stupidity.
And it looks like NBC is planning on cutting back on its programming. For some reason, people weren’t watching the crap they were producing. Inexplicable.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/0…../index.htm
Either at U of Chicago speech which is at DN or in Miami on BookTV, I think.
What they do have is a lot of union leadership in bed with management.
The guy that speaks for the UAW is horrible in every way. He’s about as convincing and as passionate as Harry No Balls Reid.
Well, I hope the discussions in the union halls are ongoing. Except for CALPERS, all the other I mentioned have gone national so that will be harder to do – but CNA and SEIU and the Prison guards union are very powerful. In the recent past they have gotten Ahnold to rescind some of his crap. Hoping they step up to the plate soon.
AFL-CIO, United Steelworkers, and the Teamsters are very closely allied with UAW so I am sure there are talks going on among them as well.
i think you’re right that i heard it (did not read it). listened to both of the ones you mention – and a couple others. don’t remember now which one(s)…. but i’m sure you-all get the idea.
Agreed. He is awful. Well, he wasn’t elected for his PR abilities that’s for sure. They need a new PR guy – and fast!
First time I saw him at the hearings I was thinkin’, yeah, I want this guy up in front of the crowd at a union rally or protest. Any 1 of my tigers has more fire in the belly that this guy ever had.
I saw him on Rachel and he was practically inchoherent.
That’s because in the 40′, 50’s and into the 60’s the union movement purged it’s most militant and best organizers, the socialists.
There was a certain rationale to doing things that way initially to prevent capital flight and expertise. IIRC there was even supposed to be a transition to black ownership/participation. But I think the ANC basically and Mbeke just found it a whole lot easier to work with the already established corporate power structure and never pushed for real change.
Waaaay too late for talks.
She represents a Union Town fergawdsakes, along with those you named, trade unions do well in the Bay Area (ironworkers, electricians, machinists, etc) and there is a huge Hotel/Rest. contingent to deal with as well – all of which consistently support one another
Nobody’s supporting the UAW.
i’m a broken record about this… but i think it is very hard (impossible?) to have a progressive organization stay progressive if it is organized as a classic top-down non-progressive organization. unaccountable power corrupts – and before it does that, it creates situations of unaligned interests.
if we want progressive institutions we’re going to have to figure out what that means about how we organize (btw, i used to think i had a clue – now i’m not so sure).
I remember a nationwide truckers strike called by Jimmy Hoffa. Hoffa may have been a crook but he was our crook.
Off topic, but reading essential:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/TYPGWB/
This is a serious petition! Check out the ’signatures’ to this petition. It appears Americans aren’t ready to say, ‘thank you George’! Love it.
Talks about planning for what they are going to do. These unions are behemouths and they would have to take a membership vote on general strikes or spending huge amounts of money on something. That does take more than just a couple of days to get accomplished.
This whole process stinks. They come up with this crap behind closed doors, and even most of the legislators don’t even get a chance to see it. Then it’s on the news like today – and it’s going to get voted on this afternoon or tomorrow morning. Who has a chance to figure out what’s going on let alone what response to give?
Continued off topic *blushing*…
Wonkette has more on the petition:
http://wonkette.com/404815/tha…..ent-194087
the impression i got from klein was that they thought they could have political change without having economic change – and by the time they figured out how wrong they were it was too late.
Thanks for brightening my day. *g*
Yes – my dad and late husband were both Teamsters. Did you know there’s a Hoffa in charge of them again? He He
You typical union exec is in bed with management.
Many unions rig their elections better than the Bolsheviks ever dared.
It took an IAMAW district 10 years to oust the general chair and his cronies, but the international execs are still in place.
I’m a strong pro-union guy, but I’d love to see the new Labor Sec. force unions to become responsive to the membership.
As I said, it’s way too late for talking. This week UAW will be gone, and the rest of the unions will be right behind them.
Ya gotta go back to the old organizers like Joe Hill, Miles Horton, Saul Alinsky and Cesar Chavez and adapt their methods to the internet while still using the face to face aspect. Their methods are tried and true but take work.
Lest we forget
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QIGJTHdH50
it is awfully quiet out there isn’t it ? not a peep from Labor anywhere outside last week’s hearing
am beginning to think they have been ‘advised’ to keep things on the low-low so as to keep their DINO friends safe from Republic attacks – “until this blows over”
a deadly game of chicken with us poor suckers along for the ride
That would be my guess. The dog that didn’t bark.
I saw that the head of the UAW local in Charlotte said that they will demand a stake in GM or a seat on the board. This is not over yet.
Bwahahahahaha. Just let them try to get that from the car czar or the bankruptcy judge when the country is in a depression.
I think that Mbeke lost his interest in change once he got into power and as long as the government got its cut he wasn’t going to argue.
were any of them able to build institutions that were able to stay progressive?
Re-read Chapter 10 of Shock Doctrine – Democracy Born in Chains: South Africa’s Constricted Freedom
thanks. i didn’t follow it except superficially in the M$M. am looking forward to reading shock doctrine at some point.
Thanks for the reference, I’m just working off my memory of events.
I’m reluctantly coming to the same conclusion. Gettelfinger et al have decided that a low profile is somehow “good strategy”.
I read the transcript from the Disney Sunday show (where’s the video? Dunno). Gettelfinger didn’t talk for very long, but he said even less. The UAW’s outreach, well, they don’t do outreach. Certainly not to progressive groups of any kind, who might be willing to help if there was any clear way to do it.
Andy Stern isn’t perfect by any means. But Gettelfinger would do better for his union if he were a bit more like him.
Joe Hill was an organizer for the IWW. Big Bill Haywood was its leader until he was forced to flee to Russia. Miles Horton was an early mine organizer, before the formation of UMW. Saul Alinsky was a community organizer in Chicago, not affiliated with any particular organization. Cesar Chavez created the UFW, which is still active but does have some internal problems with the descendants of Chavez. UFW is still pretty much progressive, however.
He doesn’t want Corker or Shelby to say any more bad things about unions.
thanks – i’ve read some saul alinsky but didn’t think he’d left any organizations behind. don’t know the others except vaguely.
Why the hell not?
I don’t get why the UAW has done so little to build support for itself and for the people who belong to it. There’s a lot to be lost for a lot of us if the Big 3 go under and take the UAW with it, so there’s a basis for support. But without the UAW’s cooperation in an effort to build support, there’s no focus, and what little that can go on to support them dissipates to nothing.
One of the bad marks against UAW is that it has, until just recently, fought tooth and nail against CAFE standards for various reasons, most of which have to do with money and job security. A result of collaboration between union leadership and management.
I’m assuming you’re writing that as snark. It works as snark. But is it, maybe, true anyway?
I see no sign that either the Bush Admin or anyone in the GOP is willing to go to bat for the Big 3 or the UAW. I don’t even see much of a presence from GOP politicians in affected states. So if the goal is to keep the bailout out of “partisan politics”, it’s a loser of a goal.
Going as they are, they are going down. Why not go down fighting?
via naked capitalism:
and via CR:
my bolds.
And you know this how? A lot of times the reasons that unions fight against stuff is because of threats and intimidation from management – not collaboration.
It goes like this: Gee whiz, those damn feds are going to make us up the CAFE standards. If they do that we’ll have to quit making car X here and close this plant. We just can’t justify keeping it open if they make us do that.
So just how does the union fight against that?
That’s a chronic problem with auto unions; I’ve noticed it’s a problem up in Canada as well.
Somewhere a few years back, a few of us figured out that it made more sense to fight for a broad progressive agenda, rather that continue in the damn interest group based squabbling that characterized environmentalism, women’s issues, union issues, you name it in the ’80s and ’90s.
Parts of the union movement get this idea, and it’s why we were able to beat Prop 75 (a union busting initiative) here in California in 2005.
The UAW never got that memo. Their pathetic campaign for support is a blast from the past, and it isn’t working for them.
They’re right about the upward spread of foreclosures out of the subprimes. It’s why all these half-assed attempts keep missing the point. There is an enormous load of debt out there that remains unaddressed.
I thought about a snark tag after, alas too late. Corker and Shelby are only the point men for the union hating Rethugs. Under Chapter 11 the union is history and it can restructure in such a way as to try to compete with the Japanese. Lower wages, no health care, etc. That’s what the Rethugs, and, I fear, a large number of DINOs as well, are looking for. It’s their best opportunity in decades to bust one of the biggest unions in the country.
CR says: “We’re all subprime now!”
Those type threats get passed on to the membership as a fait accompli by the leadership. The membership never gets an opportunity to explore any other options because with the top-down organization they’re presented with a take it or leave it proposition by leadership. That way there’s no fight.
If the ‘renegotiated’ loans are anything like the offer I got on the one my daughter and I had – it’s no wonder they are higher. First you pay three payments for a trial period. In the meantime, costs and fees keep piling up and the foreclosure continues on its merry way – generating more costs and fees.
Then you sign this new agreement that keeps the payments at the trial period rate, no term is specified, and oh by the way – the principal balance on your loan has been modified to INCLUDE ALL the fees and charges. In our case, it amounted to $37,000 in additional mortgage balance. The interest rate is not listed. The term is not specified. But I’m just supposed to sign this. And the payment is $168 less than the original (before-adjustment) one and doesn’t include taxes and insurance.
No thanks.
They could have fought it by taking some risks. And yeah, management might have closed a plant or two. That’s a very high price for the people affected, for certain.
But if the UAW had been less risk adverse over the last five years, they might be in a better position to fight now.
i was talking to a friend of mine about this last night… that i have so little clue about the economics of our current situation – but so much of it just seems like common sense, no special knowledge needed. and yet the gov doesn’t do it, or does the opposite. baffling and disheartening.
As far as the stance against CAFE standards it’s been mentioned in a few articles recently during the hearings but is widely known.
no interest rate listed? no term?
that sounds more like a case of fraud than your garden variety rip-off.
No, I meant about the collaboration rather than responding to threats.
http://www.automotivedigest.co…..esID=21792
Well, the original loan was a bad case of fraud too, and we were pretty sure about it at the time – but we needed the money for our business. We had quite a discussion about it and then made the decision to go ahead.
The broker falsified my daughters income statement. And we had and appraisal – we refused because it wasn’t for enough money – and voila – two weeks later another appraisal (by the same appraiser) that increased the supposed value of the house by $15,000. What a coincidence! Just the amount we said we had to have in order to do the refi.
OK, read you right then.
The problem here is that we all have a real interest in the UAW’s survival, but that the UAW’s leadership is so inept that they may literally be beyond help. A huge number of jobs are at risk, and a great case could be made if there were competent people organizing opposition here.
For those of us without much of a microphone, there isn’t much we can do for the UAW unless the UAW actively works to rally support for itself. You only have to look at their website to appreciate how far that is from their minds right now. Over the last few years, we’ve learned how to wage this kind of fight — beating Bush on Social Security is my favorite recent example. The means to do this exist. But without the UAW’s active cooperation, there’s nothing to rally around.
A really excellent, thoughtful comment.
I take consolation in the fact that whatever solutions we forge/support, will be a lot less bad than what the GOP wants.
OT, I think the Judaeo/Christian concept of “original sin,” is applicable. It’s what the ancients devised as a boundary to save us from our own perfectionism. Romans 7:19:
I’m not taking a position about atheism versus agnosticism versus theism. Since your comment was so responsible, I just wanted to point out that others have confronted the issue.
A lot of neocon religious leaders seize passages such as Romans 7:19, and “the poor you will have always have with you,” because they intentionally interpret it as a barrier to fighting social injustice. I am confident this community won’t accept that.
Again I want to emphasize, I’m using these passage for the human wisdom I think they contain, not their religious content.
http://hivethrive.com/2008/07/…..-than-one/
Here is an article on the subject of how to organize bottom-up efforts – it’s not a complete compendium but lays out some of the risks and parameters for getting started. Basically we are still in the experimental stages of figuring out how to do true grassroots organization. It must have some kind of top-down structure or it will fail. As pointed out – the trick is to keep it from morphing into a top-down dysfunctional mess as usual. Author is a former Rockridge Institute fellow.
i hope we will too. not that i think we will find some magic answers – but because without that struggle we will be less and do less than we could otherwise.
I should have used this piece from WaPo instead.
what a rotten crooked system. don’t think i would ever consider buying a house now.
Yes, and after all that we are the ones being demonized because we’re bad borrowers or we bought too much house for what we could afford. The thing is a 3/2 crackerbox in a neighborhood with a crack house next door and raw sewage running down the ditches alongside the street. It needed a roof and one of the roof support beams was cracking in the kitchen. And in Florida – the A/C was too small for the house so it basically ran all the time and the house never really got cool. Yeah. We bought more house than we could afford. Not.
Actually my daughter bought it for $72,000 in 2004. The adjusted mortgage according to this asinine proposal is $218,000. Nice.
The only way to buy a house is to save the money and pay cash. Don’t get involved with bankers,brokers or any of those other people.
For decades I’ve heard the argument that by renting I’m just throwing money away that could be used to build equity in a home.
If I decide to move, which I used to be prone to do, I’d have to sell the damn thing.
I don’t have to directly pay property taxes or homeowner’s insurance, which is expensive as hell in FL, if you can get any type of decent coverage.
I don’t have to directly pay for the maintenance of the property. Roof leaks, call the property management company, which means telling the woman I work with the roof leaks.
I don’t have the headaches that go with owning a piece of property.
How can we sell Mother Earth
That the people walk upon – John Trudell, Crazy Horse
indeed we are all stewards – not owners.
Right on, sister. Listen to Trudell’s words. Powerful.
I hear you. The majority of people nowdays stay in their homes 7 years. The only equity is if the value of it goes up. You certainly are not paying anything on the principal for the first seven years! And with the finance charges – you wind up paying about 3 times for it if you do stay long enough to pay it off.
I’m in a nice apartment now. I agree – nice not to have to worry about fixing the plumbing leaks and mowing the grass and all that stuff. And given what’s been happening the last couple of years – I’m actually quite a lot better off now than a lot of people.
Yep. Got myself a nice fairly large 2-bedroom duplex unit for little money. I know a lot of people who bought homes in the last couple years who are now tearing their hair out. No thanks. Long as I’ve got a job I can find a place to live. Just stay mum about the tigers. *g*
yeah. got five of my own. haven’t found any landlords who are ok with that.
Sorry to drive by without reading 131 comments first, but–
Someone over at the Wheel house noted that the Car Czar serves at the pleasure of the president– which after Jan 20 would be Obama. So this Car Czar might have a very short tenure.
Even so, I hope the Dems don’t allow this much power. An appointment at this level needs confirmation by the Senate, including hearings. This sounds like one more try by BushCo to grab all the candy before they leave the store.
Bob in HI
wonderful – i think you had linked to that youtube once before (maybe about a year ago?), but i hadn’t listened to it since then. favorited it this time. thanks.
If you keep ‘em inside the landlord usually never finds out. Our owners will allow cats but not dogs. Insurance companies no longer cover dog bite incidents. Puts the owner at risk for all kinds of lawsuits. We slyly allow lap dogs, especially with older tenants, because they’re rarely allowed outside without a leash.
It has always bugged the heck out of me that mortgages are rigged to pay the bank first. You just can’t build any equity unless you hold the mortgage for a long time. What other form of investment would you buy if you were told that you can’t make any money for about 15 years, and then only if the housing market has been rising.
I was really lucky with my house– bought it in 1991, sold it in 2004. Perfect timing. My wife, not so lucky: bought hers in 2004 when it was probably overvalued already, and now she has an upside down mortgage.
Bob in HI
Aw, I link to Crazy Horse all the time. One of my fave songs. Figure if I link to it enough folks will get the message. Another of my faves from that album, “Bone Days”, is “Hanging from the Cross.” Trudell is not fond of Christianity. There’s a utube live version but it’s audience member crappy.
You knew there would have to be something morally vulgar there in order for Bush to sign it.
waving Hi from my hospital bed…… just pretending to look like a patient…. nothing happening …. yet…
He has no problem showing his true colours now. Couldn’t care less.
(((katymine)))
A day in the hospital and they don’t do anything but bill the insurance company for the day’s stay? Or are ya “gettin’ the treatment” later?
Krugman says he was misquoted, via his NY Times blog:
lol. i’m ok where i am. bought a tiny
housecottage in dallas and put a lot of effort into the gardens. sold it for more than i put in and then bought a little house here. nothing special, but v low mortgage and at least i don’t have to worry about the cats (lots of other worries, natch).will start the Interlukin around 11pm MST….. just getting all the pre stuff done…. labs etc….
thanks. glad to know it!
Hey girl (((((hugs)))))
(((katymine and her pacmen!)))
should have known.
So you’ll be up all night dealing with that?
hmmm – Is this why Bush stationed that Army Unit on US soil?
The Union workers (specially the auto workers) came out strong for Obama, worked hard for him, donated greatly to his campaign. Is Obama now going to desert them? If he does, he is a one-termer.
Who is the puppeteer in this? Bush doesn’t have the brains. Cheney?
Yep….. you got that….. haven’t slept all night for weeks…. just don’t want to get used to it…..
The corporations who donated millions to his campaign and have had his ear since he entered the Senate.
I heard that. Many kudos for your courage.
“i’ve read some saul alinsky but didn’t think he’d left any organizations behind. don’t know the others except vaguely.”
When you’re a community organizer like Saul Alinsky, or Paolo Freire, you don’t leave organizations behind– you leave disciples behind. An anti-Obama blog tries to tar and feather him by “accusing” him of being a disciple of Alinsky (”Alinsky’s son himself has called Barack Obama his fathers greatest student.“) They think they’re slamming Obama, but to me it only adds to his stature.
And not just wingnut blogs, either. NPR has a story on it:
OK, I’m signing off. We’re officially in EPU-land.
Bob in HI
Yeah, I’m done too. Gonna go read some more radical left wing literature. Guess maybe I’d better start to re-read all those great organizers. Looks like we got lots of work to do. Again.
but that’s not institution building. and quite frankly, organizations that depend on disciples have zero appeal to me – especially on a national stage. recipe for at best divergent interests as i wrote above or at worst cult of personality and celebrity. not progressive.
later sd, bob, katymine and all..
I think this deal is so bad all the way around that it will not pass, at which point the current crisis will ratchet up a few notches while all economic indicators will continue to cliff dive.
Who is going to twist arms to get reluctant congress members to vote for it? Not Bush, not Obama, and if not them, why should Reid, Dodd, Frank, Pelosi? It’s going to be hugely unpopular with the public, with unions, and with anti-big government types.
Right, but part of the point was that you could read the NYT wrapup and get some sort of union reaction.
I think it is logical to have union equity if there is a government equity stake, but the way the czar’s duties are defined seems to preclude government equity.
Busted, St Ronnie was here for 8 long years before he hit the helm of the nation.
I hated him THEN, before his ascension.
For what he did to CA.
I hate him more than Nixon, at times.
May they both be rotting in the hell of Krom’s Vengence.
Harumph.
Selise, I’m with you. I don’t see any info on this, but I don’t trust Reid/Pelosi to save the union or the middle class . . . not for one phreallin nanosecond do I trust them. Something stinks.
And I’m worried, that there’s no counter info ABOUT their positions as they put forth . . . . not one word I’ve found to question their recent recitations about this whole affair.
Hire for what?
Outside of service and retail jobs, this process of union busting, offshoring of jobs, and foreign takeovers has not created jobs. It’s eliminated them.
Or are you counting the southern states jobs where foreign auto making has made its mark? Hardly enough jobs to counter for those lost. And sure, cheaper labor than union wages . . . . let’s just kill the middle class.
Still. More. Again.
WWOD? (what will Obama do?)
Lean?!?!?!?
I’m thinking dogpile!
*G*
That’s a bright lantern you shine Diogenes . . .
Sadly, it does not glow with hope for the un 1% . . .
We could be screwed, badly, for a long time.
But I’ll hope Obama is gonna refocus that light, and we’ll all be surprised.
I’m giving change about two years worth, to happen.
And I think, we’ll know much sooner whether or not change for OUR better is part of the potential.
At least there IS a lantern to see by, it’s been real, real dark for a long time. *G*
No Youtube, but here’s one of MY fav contemporary union songs from one of my fav contemporary blue/new grass bands (Rob Ickes is dobro god). And I have loved union songs for a long, long time . . .
7. Union Man
(Tim Stafford/Daniel House Music, BMI)
1) A short life of trouble in a dark and dusty mine
has been my occupation, now I walk the picket line
2) I was down in bloody Harlan when they tried to organize
The miners faced starvation, you could see it in their eyes
3) The company hired some gun thugs, many miners died it’s said
They’d come to kill the Union but they lost their lives instead
4) And it’s which side are you on boys, which side are you on?
You’re either for the rich man or the Union standing strong
5) I came to New York City in the year of ‘43
We were fighting Hitler’s armies in the war across the sea
6) But they would not hire a miner to do a workman’s job
at fifteen cents an hour, your pockets they will rob
7) I’ll never trust a rich man as long as I draw breath
To keep his golden mansion he’ll starve your kids to death
8) And when my life is over, don’t mourn my passing long
Organize resistance and keep the Union strong
ch) Here’s to every miner who dared to take a stand
who lived to feed his family and died a Union man