Aloha, Siun!

Hey CT … I really liked this little article, points to a lot we rarely acknowledge.

Sadr is quite the busy beaver, eh? ;-)

re-forming the government on the basis of citizenship after the quota system has proved a “failure”.

I don’t understand what that means.

Hi Siun.

All that Sunni vs Shia noise was a blatant attempt by our pentagon and Bushco to make it seem like it wasn’t our fault that all the violence happened. The ‘quotaa’ added to the problem, and then we fanned the flames of old grievances from persecutions. As you know – Iraqi society was fairly mixed, with intermarriages among almost 30% of the population, and people living next door to one another with no problems. Until we got there. So…someone want to explain again about the Sunni vs Shia? I’m not buying it.

I am glad to see that the Iraqi politicians and others are already making moves to ‘re-form’ their government in anticipation of the US withdrawal. Somehow I never doubted that would happen. I also am looking forward to a new Constitutional Convention after we are out – and I won’t be a bit surprised if we wind up with something like Iran’s government with a Parliament, a secular president, and a religious leader or council pulling the strings in the background.

But our VP elect thinks Iraq ought to be divided in 3 parts. /s

Just guessing here but I’d say that instead of a government composed of X per cent Shia, Y per cent Sunni, and Z per cent Kurd, it’s a call for a government comprised of 100% Iraki.

The approach we took to imposing a government on Iraq was to create a set of “quotas” to guarantee representation from those constituencies we wanted in place – perhaps to assure broad engagement, perhaps to dilute the power of those who oppose our occupation. Here we have the Sadrists both endorsing a Sunni initiative to change that (and by numbers it would be Sunnis who would benefit more by keeping quotas) and also noting once again that they (the Sadrists) had given up a number of quota based positions in the govt and instead supported the appointment of technocrats (rather than pols)- but that Maliki instead went for the buddy system.

The Iraqis don’t vote for individuals, eCAHN, they vote for a ‘list’ instead… Each list then is allotted slots in parliament by a quota system that represents the vote and the CPA’s(Bremer) demand that certain amount of women and various minorities(religious and/or ethnic) have some representation… That’s it in a nutshell…

I thought that’s what it might mean but didn’t want to go off on a discussion if I did not understand it.

The U.S. resisted that mightily from the start. They could have done elections regionally, grossing up to a national govt from local reps like we do it here and how it’s done in a lot of other countries. They could have done it on the basis of food ration cards, which most households have and which probably reveal the number of people in the household, perhaps even their ages. I actually emailed a NYT reporter at the time asking why they didn’t do that, and he gave me what I presumed was the U.S. govt propaganda, which is that the food cards were not that accurate, etc.

I suspect the U.S. chose the current system in order to maintain as much of a puppet regime as possible. Divide & conquer.

Now, of course, the neighborhoods have been so disrupted with ethnic cleansing, the opportunity is gone to vote for representatives who you know locally.

I knew they voted for a list, but didn’t know about, or rather had forgotten about the quotas in the cabinet by sectarian groups. That’s the piece I was missing.

Thanks for explaining. I had not understood the part about people from both Sunnis & Shias willing to change the system.

Siun,
Are they thinking at all along the lines that I thought of right from the getgo & described in my 10, i.e. electing reps from local area instead of voting by lists.

Thee real issue may be that Repthugs (and neocons) inherently see things as a mirror on their own vision of the world and themselves – tribal, communalist, identity-politics-based.

Good Afternoon everyone…..

What about the issue on the quotas where they are not finding enough women to run for seats? It seems that those who do run are targeted and at risk of loosing their lives…..

“Perhaps no one told al-Massoudi about that Sunni-Shia thing?”

Or perhaps he’s Shia and expects them to de facto dominate a government based on popular vote only? Wasn’t this what the Sunni were afraid of in the first place and why it was a choice between a “quota” system or sunni non-participation in early elections?

“He expressed regret that the “substitutes were chosen from the (Shiite) United Iraqi Alliance“”

Is the Sadrist bloc part of the United Iraqi Alliance or do they have a different, shiite, party? Although, since they gave up those cabinet portfolios in the first place this probably is not sour grapes that Sadrists weren’t chosen.

Please forgive my skepticism. I’d be extremely happy to find that it’s misplaced. I’ve believed from the beginning that most Irakis just want to be able to send their kids to school and go about every day life without worrying about being shot or blown up or disappeared–and that they want that for their neighbors, too, regardless of which type of mosque they attend. It’s just that people like that tend not to run around with guns and bombs or vast amounts of political clout.

Al-Hashemi’s call to abandon the “quota” is very significant, I agree, since he’s Sunni and his party isn’t in a position to dominate under a different, “back to the constitution” arrangement.

Maybe someone forgot to tell certain Western journamalists about Sunnis and Shiites who are Irakis and pragmatic and want to stabilize their country and government so it works for all its citizens and they can start actually repairing the damage we Amerikans have done? Or maybe the certain Western journamalists are doing the “la la la, can’t hear you, gotta have a good _story_ with drama” routine?

Peace.

FunnyDiva

Jane upstairs with live blog of Pelosi press conference for Auto Bailout Bridge Loan.

I’m sure there was a significant element of “divide, destabilize and conquer”. But I’m not sure that just saying “oh, the poor irakis were just manipulated by the US into murdering each other” (instead of directly attacking their occupiers) fits all the facts either. Or that that manipulation would have been so easy and successful in a society that had no strong tribal and sectarian tendencies to begin with.

Plus, it’s not just ign’ant Amerikans or even westerners who believe the iraqis to be tribal and prone to sectarian violence. Ask a politically aware Egyptian if they think it was all peace love and ponies there before X,Y,Z outsiders started making trouble.

Yep – the demand is to vote based on citizenship alone, note assigning quotas to control the outcome.

Is the Sadrist bloc part of the United Iraqi Alliance or do they have a different, shiite, party? Although, since they gave up those cabinet portfolios in the first place this probably is not sour grapes that Sadrists weren’t chosen.

They were part of the UIA but were forced out (under U.S. pressure, though the Sadrist’s partners may not have needed too much urging to have one less party to share the spoils of govt. with).

So, the cynical take (which has little to do with sectarianism) on the above statement is that two parties frozen out of the main power axis aren’t happy with how power is apportioned. Shocking!

OT Siun, had you seen this?

Footage shows settlers shooting two Palestinians

An Israeli human rights group released video footage yesterday showing Israeli settlers shooting two Palestinians at close range, hours after police forcibly evicted residents of a controversial settlement house in the occupied West Bank.

The film, recorded by a Palestinian in Hebron with a camera from the group B’Tselem, showed settlers attacking his house, situated in a valley close to the building where dozens of settlers were evicted by riot police on Thursday.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…..-west-bank

T-bear – thanks! I’ll look into that!

So Sadr’s party:

calls to re-form the government on a basis of citizenship away from the partisan quota system

What a surprise! Since the country has a Shia majority, the quota system was designed to ensure minority represetation. Without it, the Shia will have complete control of the government.

This is progress?