First, take a look at Howie’s recent post over at Down with Tyranny. He reminds us that “hubris is what ends big strong empires… and this one isn’t immune, not by a long shot.” And then provides a much needed must-read primer on the recent history of US relations with Afghanistan.
Then take a look at how we are attempting to “win” in Afghanistan in Jerome Starkey’s report on why Afghan tribal leaders are not buying in to attempts to have an “afghan awakening:” (h/t Alex Thurston)
They came in the night and shot Saeed Alam in his bed. His three-year-old son was crying at his feet and his mother had leapt on top of him to try to block the bullets. Both of them were hurled out of the way and an American soldier opened fire…
Saeed Alam was shot four times in the chest in the raid last Saturday. His son landed in a fire pit, used for cooking. His mother died of shock the next day. The American soldiers left, taking 10 other Afghans with them. "We are not Taliban. We do not support al-Qa’ida but if these searches continue we will definitely join the anti-government elements," said Mr Janan, a senior member of the Gardeserai shura, or council…
A delegation of elders travelled to the provincial capital, Gardez, on Tuesday to protest about the raids. "We have 9,000 people in our tribe and we will take up arms against them," Mr Janan warned…
"Raiding people’s houses and snatching people away creates a very negative impression in the communities," said a senior Western policy analyst, working in the region…
"What laws allow them to kill him without an investigation?" Mr Janan said. "There are no courts, there is no justice. We are Muslims. Maybe they are from another religion but there are international laws and customs. Who will tell me that killing this person was legal?"
Is it any wonder that, as Anand Gopal writes in his recent discussion of “Who are the Taliban?:”
In a world of endless war, with a predatory government, roving bandits, and Hellfire missiles, support goes to those who can bring security.
And as Doug Saunders notes, the original mission (and legal authorization of the invasion of Afghanistan) was to root out Al Qaeda:
To the extent that al-Qaeda and its supporters remain active in Afghanistan, how much is that because of and not in spite of our military presence there?
Richard Barrett, the man who runs the UN agency that monitors al-Qaeda’s activities, warned recently that the presence of large numbers of foreign troops is mainly serving to bolster the terrorist group and provide it with a convenient, two-dimensional un-Islamic enemy to make its rhetoric sound plausible and build up its recruiting.
“You could say that the threat of foreign occupation is giving them oxygen in the region with tribal leaders, leaving aside local differences to unite against foreign forces,” Mr. Barrett said.
If so, we have a stark conclusion: Al-Qaeda is gone, and not likely to return. To the extent that it is still around, it’s because we’re attracting it.
If both those statements are true, then no matter how ugly it looks, the war’s over.
Related posts:
- CIA-Karzai Revelations Leave US Afghanistan Policy Lost in the Labyrinth
- You Got To Move
- Stacie Ritter Lost Everything; CIGNA CEO Ed Hanway Bought Another House
- Taking Out the Intelligence Laundry: McClatchy Avoids Policy Debate in Pro-Escalation Afghanistan Report
- Intelligence Shortfalls And The Waziristan Offensive





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How long will it take us to learn? For every military action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Thank you, Siun.
I’d love to have folks point to other useful articles on Afghanistan and I hope we can start circulating them more widely.
We should ask the Russians about Afghanistan. They have some experience there.
You know, it might be neat to invite Barnett Rubin to a conversation here. He is so knowledgeable and passionate about Afghanistan.
“Raiding people’s houses and snatching people away creates a very negative impression in the communities,” said a senior Western policy analyst, working in the region…
And I am sure this was supposed to be both a sincere and enlightened statement. /s
What a good idea – I’ll look into it as well as seeing if we can get Doug Saunders and Anand Gopal to come by sometime.
Riesz – hope you read Howie’s piece (hope everyone does) since it is a great reminder of history.
Tough hardy culture…tough on women too. But…
When there is no rule of law it’s the wild west and people take the law into their own hands. Vigilante rules. Is there a win for the citizens of Afghanistan? What is it? You just described a military execution without any legal process that is a war crime. Why not take it to the Hague?
Ask our CIA they gave them the rockets to bring down the helicopters. Now they are on the other side.
I sent you an email with Rubin’s addresses/phone number. Good luck.
Every foreign occupation of the country eventually fails. They go in without clearly defined objectives or an exit strategy, spend several years creating new enemies before finally deciding to cut their losses and withdraw. It’s like we go around the world whacking hornets nests with a stick, always expecting a different result than we got from all the previous whacks.
Barack Obama would have us believe we haven’t finished the job in Afghanistan because Iraq took our eye off the ball. News flash, Mr. President-elect, it would have turned into a quagmire in any event.
Aloha, Siun! Speaking of surging in Afghanistan… Current events prove that it’ll be very expensive to achieve…
Militants torch Afghan supplies
Thank you so much Laura!
Watching the video where locals who support neither the Taliban nor US… even when the US offers jobs or other bribes.
“They just want us out.”
How is Obama / The US expecting to change that?
Yep – 160 trucks full, up in smoke. The BBC has some footage thats worth watching: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7769758.stm and in one of their reports they mention that Mullah Omar made a public statement afterwards suggesting we go home.
Thanks for pointing to the video Eureka … that section is very important I think.
If the first seven years of military occupation didn’t make them love us, clearly the solution must be to send more troops.
Thanks for the Howie link. How refreshing to think that someone may understand the history and elements. Where is it written that some of these countries are not entitled to keep their own oil?
Militants torch Afghan supplies
The torching took place in Pakistan. We are so screwed.
Actually that figure is higher…
Each ‘lorry’ can carry 2 Hummers… To make it worse, Peshawar is the main (re)supply point…
Ya gotta love the Pentagon’s spin on it…
Check out Da Spook’s take on it…
“Raiding people’s houses and snatching people away creates a very negative impression in the communities,”
A masterstroke of understatement.
Put another way;
Sometimes I wonder…why is the frisbee getting bigger…then suddenly, it hits me.
Howie’s piece is a must read. Parenti is another voice ignored by the ruling elite. I also recommend Pressfield’s “Tides of War” as well as his “Gates of Fire.”
We will never prevail in Afghanistan. Another occupation like that in Iraq will destroy the Army and Marine Corps, regardless of how many jobless young men and women join their ranks.
OFG – great to see you!
It is where super powers go to die. The first World Trade Center attack happened thirty seven days into Bill Clinton’s first term. All involved are either dead or in prison for life. No invasions wars at all. Mission accomplished.
I love maps.
The last five stanzas of Kipling’s “A Young British Soldier”
Send your thoughts/link articles to change.gov
It is good to be seen! I have had some trials and tribulations of late, involving the health of my son. I put up a post over at my place just a bit ago to let everyone know the details. Just click on my name if you want to know what’s been happening. Hopefully I can get back to work and blogging now.
Pat Lang also chimes in on Afghanistan…
I tried to find a way to form a group over there, to no avail. Did you see anything like that?
I wonder if either NATO or the US military command think they can resupply troops a la Ke Sanh or Dien Bien Phu. It may take the Afghanis a while but sooner or later they’ll figure out a way to either fool or destroy our predator drones.
OFG! Sending my best thoughts to you, your son and the rest of the family. My niece has G-B several years ago. It was many long months of struggle for the whole family. (And she’s fine and wonderful now). Hoping the new year ushers in an easy and full recovery.
Will Afghanistan be Obama’s Vietnam? Hubris seems to be the one constant in American foreign policy of at least the last 60 years, whether Republican or Democrat.
I cannot imagine what your son and family have gone through. My thoughts are with you all and hope for your son’s speedy and full recovery.
I didn’t, ES. Why not form one on fb that engages on issues posted there? What were you picturing a group doing?
I know it didn’t work, but I liked the *arrangement* of the save FISA group on his campaign sight last summer.
The new sight doesn’t seem to invite organization the same way. Much more top down design to it.
change.gov seems to me to be nothing more than a PR gimmick.
Are you linked in with folks from MyObama? I’m still getting lots of email from the locals around here. Maybe you could start up a letter-writing campaign to get the new place to add groups in….(just an idea off the top of my head). (A list-serv of psychs I’m on is forming a group to read up on topics re: torture and all…but organizing via email, not the site. It’s an interesting idea, creating a web inside the place.)
I never disconnected myself from it. Only had one person in my county join up aside from myself.
So, not much I can do there. I submitted a few notes to the new sight this week. But it was under their topic du jour and the comments disappear like email. It’s just different, but i hope we can find a way to pierce the bubble.
If you start an e-letter drive of some sort and I can join in, I would love to do so.
Perhaps these folks would spearhead such a thing.
You should ask the British. They also have expereience there.
“Right up the Khyber Pass” = FUBAR.
I do know the whole change.gov thing is still developing and is not complete. But they are launching things like house parties for folks to get together and raise issues and organize around them – that effort is just starting.
Interesting!
I received several invites here locally…! ;-)
Those people couldn’t find there way out of a wet paper bag….. sorry….. the only thing that PDA does is protest……
Bushco set up a white house office tasked with creatinf plans to overthrow many counties it is against all imternational law/ Pelosi, Reid. Hoyer are part of a greater conspiracy…that is why Peach Pie is off of her table.
In other words they are ready to move on all resources not well protected.
Russia was quite stupid to be greedy and go into Afghanistan. They were pretty well positioned in cebtral asia where the oil and gas pools are.
Greed and power are the drivers. It has cost us world leadership.
Mayhaps we could get Michael Parenti to chat with us. I’d suggest Robert Fisk but he doesn’t do computers.
So CIA sends Bhutto into Pakistan from England to be our puppet. That was a high risk operation and they threw her under the bus…there was no secret service protecting her. Now with her husband at the helm where is the cooperation? Not happening. The people in that regio n realise from our history we consistantly put the shive in our allies. The foriegn policy leave our foriegn service with no leverage. Look at the outing of our oww by our own. This is really disgusting and worse devastating to our foriegn service. Screwed rude and tatoed.
Ah. I know nothing of the national org. My local group seems postive and engaged. Appreciate the feedback, katymine. (And hope all is going well with you.)
You summed it up beautifully, bb! Btw, nobody has ever ‘conquered’ Afghanistan, why don’t we realize it?
It’s the mentality that says, “We’ll succeed where others have failed dismally. Screw the history, we can do anything.”
We had a brief–very brief–window immediately after 9/11 when we had a shot at being successful in Afghanistan. It would have been a long, uphill slog, with far less than a 50-50 chance of success. But instead of keeping our eye on the ball that really counted, we had to go careening off after Iraq. There’s not much chance now we’ll do much more than get a lot of our own youngsters killed, along with hundreds or thousands of Afghans. We’ve never been much good at nation building (Haiti is the prime example of how clueless we are at the job) so it’s not likely we would have succeeded in Afghanistan n matter what. But at least we had a chance back then. Now, we’ve got nothing and we’ll get nothing out of the exercise except more grief.