Everyone seems to be salivating because Caroline Kennedy called David Paterson and is apparently interested in the Senate seat being vacated by Hillary Clinton.
It’s a truly terrible idea.
Her leadership could have been really helpful when the rest of us were trying to keep the progressive lights on and getting the stuffing beaten out of us by a very well-financed right wing for the past eight years. But when things were tough, she was nowhere to be found.
Now that the Democrats are in power, she’d like to come in at the top. We have absolutely no idea if she’s qualified, or whether she can take the heat of being a Kennedy in public life. She’s certainly shown no appetite for it in the past. She’ll have a target on her back and if she can’t take it, if she crumbles, she will become a rallying point that the right will easily organize around.
The woman has never run for office in her life. We have no idea how she’d fare on the campaign trail, or how well she could stand up to the electoral process. She simply picks up the phone and lets it be known that she just might be up for having one of the highest offices in the land handed to her because — well, because why? Because her uncle once held the seat? Because she’s a Kennedy? Because she took part as a child in the public’s romantic dreams of Camelot? I’m not quite sure.
There’s an enormous problem in the Senate right now with entitlement, with the sense that its members owe their allegiance to each other and not to the public. Witness Joe Lieberman’s recent confirmation of Homeland Security Chairman, when Democratic Senators circled the wagons and helped him hold on to power — despite the fact that he refused to hold hearings into the government’s response to Hurricane Katrina and protected billions of dollars in contractor graft from being investigated. Nobody, including Howard Dean, seemed to think that his performance record as head of the Committee was something that should even be taken into consideration.
The new Senate is going to face incredible challenges in the upcoming session, and we’re lucky this year that it will be infused with some much-needed new blood. It’s not a place for anyone to be wearing political training wheels. If Caroline Kennedy aspires to that lofty perch, let her run for something first — her name recognition, political connections and ability to fund raise should make it a cake walk. It could be a tough year for Democrats in 2010. It would be good to have her in the game.
In the mean time, I’m glad she had fun being part of a winning campaign in a year that saw a rather rosy playing field for Democrats. But simply being well-known and a member of the "American nobility" in a celebrity-driven society shouldn’t be enough to axiomatically entitle her to be a member of the US Senate.
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But Jane, she’s a Kennedy! ;)
If Obama wants to give her an ‘attagirl’ for her work in the campaign, I think a nice ambassadorship..like to Luxembourg is the way to go, frankly.
Yeah Jane. I agree with you 110% on every point. I said yuck to her on an earlier thread.
Now now now. Let’s be generous. Let’s send her to Paris.
Amen Jane!
jane – do you have any thoughts on alternatives you’d like?
I hate to agree with, of all people, George WIll, but he got this one thing right. He was disgusted with the whole concept of entitlement to what amounts to inherited offices.
So Jane, what can we do to discourage this idea? A petition?
OMG. Obama’s rhetoric on Russia is TERRIBLE. The honeymoon is over.
OK, I’ll spot you Paris. Luxembourg would be sort of a ‘damnation with faint praise’ sort of thing. Italy would be good too.
I think Patterson ought to appoint himself, frankly.
He’s quite a wonk, in a way that would suit being a Senator frankly more than being a Governor.
With Obama gone and Blagovich’s choice a total crapshoot, there are no African Americans in the Senate. One president, zero senators — neither diverse nor representative.
The NY Senate seat will be up for grabs in 2010 and 2012. That means, as was pointed out on This Week this morning, that the person who wants it would have to raise close to $100 million. If Caroline Kennedy really wants it, she would certainly have the fundraising advantage. Let her hit the road, press the flesh, meet the public and start auditioning now.
eCAHN, I think this needs to be a New York State thing – get everything out there as much as possible to get phone calls, letters, emails and faxes to David Paterson’s office. OR, better and easier..get Spitzer to get up and announce his support of her – that would kill it with Paterson immediately.
I’ve never been to Luxembourg. It could be a charming place. But sends a signal that the ambassador is not worth much.
So was Will against GWB, Jeb?
thanks!
Heh. Never thought about that. Would get Paterson out of the sticky position of needing to do the budget cuts in the state. Talk about being promoted before they get a chance to see if you can do your current job.
2 Qs:
1. Is that kosher? I.E. legally can he appoint himself?
2. Who would replace him?
I like your latter suggestion.
Will make a call tomorrow.
Sure was. Shocked me. He also mentioned Gore and his dad.
Oh, and there must be an email somewhere. We should send him a link to Jane’s post.
oh, but he just talked about the importance of encouraging kids to learn about the thrill of scientific discovery. i liked that and tried to tune out the foreign policy – too creepy,
Great points, Jane. If she gets in there, let’s just call it the House of Lords, and be done with it.
A mixed bag, to be sure, just like other human beings.
I’d bet that this is Uncle Ted’s idea and that he made a call to Paterson. If Caroline wants it don’t see any way to stop it.
Give Caroline her grandfather’s ambassadorship. It would so stick it to that ditzy Lady de Rothschild while giving legacy its due in a proper setting.
I was ambivalent. Mr. S was making your arguments…now Jane’s cogent post. I’m persuaded.
It’s the usual “contact the governor” email sort of fill in the boxes thing at the state web site.
I think I actually heard that’s exactly what happened.
Jane, either you conscientously remember to take your smart pills every morning, or your don’t even need them. Once again your sharp analysis have really helped me to understand a situation I was previously only tangentilly aware of.
I really admire the way you were able to point out the potential flaws of having yet another “entitled” Senator without needing to show Caroline Kennedy any disrespect. She may indeed be yet another member of a family who has sacrificed so much to serve the US in politics, but she definitely should go out and earn her spurs, based on more than her name. Robert Jr. is one Kennedy who has climbed into the trenches and rolled up his sleeves and been busy working for positive change, and I would welcome her to the process and wish her nothing but success.
At this point I am pretty certain that a more qualified and deserving replacement could be found for Hillary. Of course as you alluded, Caroline already had many natural advantages if she should choose to enter the political fray.
Wassa matta, you got issues with ANOTHER rich, privileged, hereditary aristo taking the stage? Ur right. I’m having enuf fucking trouble waitingandseeing for the White Bill Clinton without having to put up with a Democrat Bush. Fuck her. Instant replay of Bobby wandering into New York when I was a kid. Anyone see a progressive Democrat, lemme know, willya? I might not fucking recognize such a creature.
That’s what I figured.
O/t -
There’s never been any doubt at the Lake about the depths to which AP has sunk but take a quick look at this piece of tripe…….dregs would be faint praise:
http://www.miamiherald.com/new…..03069.html
So Palin could have appointed herself had Stephens won and then been kicked out? I don’t like that appoint yourself concept.
I kind of like the idea of Carolyn for senator. I think lots of folks would find it comforting to have a Kennedy in the senate during the coming depression. Ted won’t be able to hold the torch too much longer.
Here’s her wiki for your reading pleasure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Kennedy
I disagree Jane. Why? Because just the other day I read a comment by a neocon who said he was going to leave the country knowing that the Obamas, the Clintons, and the Kennedys are in leadership roles! This is good, Jane! We could get our country back in no time flat at this rate. ;-)
I also think the rest of the world would love to see President Kennedy’s daughter in the US Senate, and again find comfort in that.
Gonna go baking. BBL
.
I’m not entirely sure about the protocol, but it is possible and has been done (one time I remember specifically was Wyoming, years ago). I don’t remember if the Gov had to do a roundabout (like arrange with his replacement his appointment to the Senate seat, before resigning the governorship – hell it might even vary from state to state, like TOOO many electoral laws, regs etc.
Think you are probably right. She is as qualified as many in the Senate and a lot more than some. I don’t see much harm in it but wish she had been doing something in politics before this.
In NY, it goes: governor, Lt. Gov., then Majority leader of the state Senate. We don’t have a Lt. Gov. now; the majority leader of the state senate is Dean Skeles of Long Island.
Skeles is a Republican — he replaced Joe Bruno, who, ahem, had his own big dirty mess and who supposedly is implicated in what happened to Spitzer.
Sure. All the Vietnamese, Laotians and Cambodians must love him. Non- Miami Cubans, too.
Caroline could probably handle it but what’s it worth or cost to float a name…wish it were you Jane.
My understanding is that HRC has said she will not resign the seat until she has been confirmed as SoS. Which means after 1/20/09. At which point, NY will have a new Senate Majority Leader that is a Dem (assuming all the back room negotiations go s expected).
If Sarah Palin is qualified to be the VP of the United States then that means we are all qualified to be the VP too or a US Senator.
Malcolm Smith, I think.
you betcha *wink*
She can be Senator as long as she changes her name to Triboro.
Kirsten Gillebrand, a Blue America congresswoman, is mentioned in the New York Times article. How about her? One advantage is that she is upstate, as opposed to the senior senator, Chuck Shumer, the quintessential New Yorker.
It was done once here in Minnesota with Governor Wendell Anderson with fatal future consequences.
The stink of self-promotion never wore off Wendy and his then bright shining Democratic star future disappeared.
I agree with Jane that Caroline ought not to, and also that Patterson would be a likely excellent standard bearer, but it both cases, I think it best be someone else.
Not Caroline for the reasons Jane listed, and not Patterson because of the appearance of self-dealing that could end up killing his career like it did Wendell Anderson.
Looks like you and I are in the minority here, Loo Hoo, but I think even though she hasn’t run for office before she’s qualified and has impeccable progressive creds. She’s been raising her family, and now that her kids are grown she’s ready to jump in (I’m sure with a bit of a push from Uncle Teddy). Why not let her fill in until the special election in 2010 to prove her abilities and then she’d have to run for the seat on her own at that point and again in 2012. I think she’s up to the task.
Sigh – she’s weak, as is Mike Arcuri, another upstate Dem congress critter. Their best choice, I feel, is Maurice Hinchey. Great money raiser, well liked, actually has done stuff in the House. But he may not want to give up what he’s got in the House to do it and I’ve never seen his name on any list.
That would be great.
I never even understood why she was on Obama’s VP search team.
More proof (as if we needed it) that the Democratic Party in NYS is an effing mess.
New post upstairs, folks.
Yup. While it’s true that she doesn’t have political experience, she’s certainly more knowledgable about all things political than most new critters.
Count me in.
Yep. If Sarah didn’t know a thing about the world past her mailbox at the end of the driveway, then we too can become a Governor, a Senator, or the VP/president of the United States!
Caroline Kennedy is qualified hence her life experiences as far as I’m concerned. Al Franken honestly wouldn’t be qualified in the normal sense, but we all know he has a brilliant political mind laced with lots of sarcastic humor. Yep, all we need is a brilliant political mind to run for office and all Sarah wants is more nice clothes! See? Sarah really isn’t qualified for much except for maybe a buyer for Neiman Marcus. Seriously. ;-)
I understand your position that she has not run for office or jumped into the political arena, but she is an accomplished person that has successfully undertaken important work while having a fulfilling family life. She really is a class act. I would think that despite being handed something partially because of her heritage, the people of NY could do a lot worse. She has demonstrated integrity in her life’s work and that is not an abundant quality in D.C.
Exactly how I feel. And in a campaign I can’t picture anyone going really negative against her.
I like Gillebrand or Louise Slaughter.
Paterson is going for re-election as governor and either would be a great upstate pick.
In America, if someone uses a power of position to appoint themselves to a better position of power, the majority of the electorate, me among them, will see that action as not only corrupt, but worse than cronyism as the actor directly and transparently benefits from his/her action. So, I think Patterson would destroy any future he might have in politics by appointing himself to anything.
As to Caroline Kennedy: If she did offer to be appointed to the Senate, I will no longer admire her, but consider her as another arrogant, elitist American who thinks she is entitled to high political office.
Ditto. Teddy probably won’t be there for too many more years, unfortunately, and could be gone a lot sooner than any of us would like. It’s hard to imagine the Senate without a Kennedy and she’s a good one to pass the torch to. RFK Jr. has already said he’s not interested — if he were, he’d be great.
I’d go with Louise Slaughter before I’d go with Gillinbrand.
I’ve never felt arrogance from Caroline Kennedy at all and why you would if she suddenly filled arrogant Hillary’s spot as a US Senator is very strange to me. What kind of arrogance would Caroline suddenly have? She’s not changed one bit in her personality her whole life. On the other hand, even Chelsea Clinton in recent years has become very arrogant with a big feeling of entitlement! Sad, but true.
I think Caroline Kennedy would ROCK as ambassador to France. Seriously.
Gillebrand is a bitch in private.
Jane,
If Patterson appoints himself, he hands the governor’s seat to the Majority leader. Do you honestly think Malcom Smith can win re-election?
Patterson can get re-elected.
Entitlement. Hell the fact that Mrs Bill is (though hopefully not) going to be SOS smacks of nothing but entitlement. I have no idea why there is such vehemence in opposition to Ms Kennedy, I like the idea of a non professional politician going to the Senate and I also like the idea of a person well grounded in the idea that everyone is a person worth caring about.
A lot of knee jerk reactions from the NY commenters is , frankly, that they have there own person in mind and anyone else seems like an intruder.
I have to wonder if this Caroline Kennedy chatter is meant to blunt the Andrew Cuomo boomlet, since Cuomo had such a messy divorce from her cousin Kerry Kennedy in 2002, helping to sink his Lt Gov campaign then.
Re Gillibrand, do the Dems really need another Blue Dog Dem in Congress? And one holding down a key senate seat from a solidly blue and lib-leaning state, and when we have more liberal and viable options like CK or Louise Slaughter or Andrew Cuomo? Sorry, but I’m sick of seeing soft, straddling centrist Dems taking all the oxygen out of the room.
Caroline Kennedy is fine with me, for her strong support of the Constitution and civil rights, and her non-Blue Dog straightforward stance as a true progressive Dem in the tradition of her father and two uncles.
I’m for Al Franken and for Caroline, if she wants it. Frankly though, I’m surprised she wants it.
Masaccio @ 47: Gillibrand is still pretty NYC. She made her bones there in corporate law.
If it “has” to be a woman, why not Sam Barend?
I really dislike the notion of an unelected governor appointing my Senator. The right thing to do is to hold a special election. Barring that, you don’t just go turning Kennedy’s into Senators as if they have some divine right to political power.
I usually agree with Jane, but not this time. I’m not exactly a Kennedy fanatic, & I didn’t think much of JFK Jrs.’ presumed coronation, but everything I’ve seen about Caroline Kennedy over the past couple of decades is that she is smart, interested in and informed about public policy, gracious, and not even slightly egocentric. She would be a breath of fresh air in a Senate full of pompous hotair balloons. She might even teach them to behave themselves.
As for her carrying the liberal torch during the Dark Ages, I don’t think she had an obligation to do that, but she did anyway by quietly working behind the scenes to promote political acts of courage and to improve public education.
Like any normal human being, I resent scions with a sense of entitlement, but Caroline Kennedy has never behaved like a prima donna. I think she’d be great in the Senate, & if I still lived in New York — where she’s lived most of her life, unlike Madame Clinton, I’d vote for her.
The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com
P.S. I’ve linked Jane’s post on RealityChex. Even tho I disagree with her, she does have a valid POV here.
I’d rather have a political newcomer in training wheels than politicians who are already corrupted by the current minor league system. It takes time to lose your sole to politics, so less is more in my book.
or the one her grandfather should have gotten – Ireland.
agreed with Jane on Kennedy.
Tish James for Senate!
Though I grew up in NYC and counted among my closest buddies, the sons of NYC commissioners and thusly had exposure to some of what self serving means. I must admit that I have always been a Kennedy fan. My first memories of Caroline were as a little girl holding her even littler brother’s hand at JFK’s funeral. She has become what I consider to be a non-greedy or self serving person who has a giving and empathetic nature.
I am not familiar with any of the other prospective senators. I don’t perceive her to have a ruthless personality that may be a requisite to the job especially in NY. I do think she would be a progressive ally and as a quick study could learn the needs of upstate NY and think would be an honest representative for NY and would carry on the traditions of the Kennedy family much better than her cousin in the house.
I’m going to have to agree w/ constantweader. Rebuilding the Democratic party in NY isn’t her responsibility, and from what I’ve read poll-wise, she’d be a reasonably popular choice. She has always carried herself with poise and graceful intelligence, and if she chooses not run when her appointment seat has expired, so be it.
And so what she becomes a target for Republican bitterness and howls of entitlement complaints? For at least the next four years, they can suffer in bitter disenfranchisement, while the rest of us clean up the mess they’ve made of our spociety.
Good grief what a sentence. Preview is my fren.
I know I’m in serious minority here but if I never heard about a Kennedy again I would be very happy. Deliriously so. She’ll get what she wants. I doubt no one can no to a Kennedy in the Democratic establishment.
Dear Caroline – if you or one of your minions is reading this, please take my offer in the spirit in which it is being made:
If you really really (really) want to be New York State’s senator, then have someone give me a call or an email and I will meet you at any Upstate airport of your choice and I will take you on the tour..all over Upstate. I will explain everything to you. Where all the bodies are buried. How Upstate saved New York City’s butt numerous times in the past(the latest being, I think, during Abe Beam, when Warren Anderson, the speaker, agreed to bail the city out rather than allow it to go under). Agriculture, education, industry, we’ll cover it all. It’s a lot of work but I’m willing to do it for you if you are willing to put in the work to be New York State’s senator..not New York City’s senator. We’ve already got one of those and his name is Chuck Schumer.
She’d most likely get a softer ride than most from the Murdoch press – she got his little girls into a private school they almost certainly wouldn’t have had a shot at otherwise, according to Vanity Fair.
If they are going to use her, though, I’d rather Obama appoint her to something like NEA or CPB or NPR, all in areas she has experience in (she’s been on the board of the Kennedy Center since forever, and by all accounts she’s pretty active), and where she could use a little of her celebrity to face down all the Bush revenants we’re likely to keep around for a little while.
I have the same problem with the Kennedys that I have with Chimpy’s family; there is a sense of entitlement among them. I am vehemently against dynasties; just look at what they produce. Hirohito, Kim Jong Il, Bashir Assad, Chimpy…
I would like to see another Kennedy heading up the EPA, not sure of the perception of two in the administration.
Well, as Teddy points out, that would certainly put paid to Andrew Cuomo’s national future…
I genuinely like him for EPA (I assume you mean RFK Jr?), but I don’t know if that would disqualify her from an arts or public media post. I hope not – they’re going to face huge pushback if they try to pluck NPR out of the tank, and the board of CPB has been salted with dreadful people. Someone most of America thinks romantically about would be just perfect.
Jane: you are spot on. This sense of noblesse oblige: “Since NY is vacant I will put in a claim” reeks of the entitlement. We gave up the monarchy and its attendant aristocracy only to create our own: Kennedy, Bush, Clinton. Even Joe Biden is not above taking advantage. The Senate , the so-called best debating club in the world, is a haven for the entitled. I am disgusted by the fact that Caroline, whose main claim to fame is that she was on the Obama VP Team Pick, is interested in a Senate seat. What, exactly, has she done to deserve consideration?
Great column! Maurice Hinchley from upstate might be nice if he wants it. He was one of few to articulate long ago suspicions that Dan Rather’s problem was a set-up. But he just passed his 70th birthday, and might not want to give up House seniority for a junior Senate position.
What does Uncle Ted think of the idea?
If Caroline has spent most of her life out of the spotlight, is that a reason to disqualify her for public service? Remember the deaths of her father, uncle and brother? That may have something to do with her reticence to step forward.
She has advocated for progressive and liberal causes privately, she has the inspirational aura of the Kennedy mystique. Her cousin, RFK Jr and her uncle are tried and tested progressives. She more than likely shares the Kennedy philosophy of liberal philosophy and service on behalf of the least fortunate among us.
I’m willing to hear and see more of her before I lump her in with the Bush and Clinton dynasties. She could do no worse than 75% of the sitting Senators, and could be just what we need.
I understand the hesitation around the dynasty thing — I too am sick of lame Bushes and Romneys — and it was not Gore’s most attractive attribute — but that aside Kennedy is a good pick — she is smart, has written extensively about civil liberties issues, and brings something besides a life of political pandering and scrambling to the table. And unlike Gillebrand is not a sell out blue dog — Having people whose whole life has not been about personal advancement — even if they are heirs to a great political dynasty — in office feels good to me.
Okay, this is getting ridiculous. According to the latest issue of the Naional Enquirer, Ted Kennedy wants his wife to have his Senate seat, and his son and nephew are upset because they think it should be theirs.
Jane,
This is one rare situation where I think your distaste for anything resembling’ establishment” ill serves you. We would do well to support the rebirth of a liberal progressive establishment.
He’s disgusted by almost everything. He’s bound to occasionally get one right.
Isn’t it possible to have a re-birth of a liberal progressive establishment without it being all legacy? I think Jane’s primary point is, these positions should not be ANYONE’s by right and accident of birth. And that works on the left as well as the right.
Your main objections to CK as a nominated replacement for HRC seem to be (a) she’s a Kennedy and (b) she wasn’t there for liberals when it counted during the “dark years” of the Bush Régime. I agree that a Senate seat should not be considered a family heirloom to be handed down dynastically, but your argument seems to have a bit of a taint of quid pro quo pettiness about it, i.e., “Why should she get a reward in the new order? What’s she done for us lately?”
Being in what has for over half a century been the top political family in the nation ought to have at least given her some clues about what the job entails and how to handle the politics; and besides, what other heavy Dem hitters does Paterson really have to choose from in NY state? His deposed predecessor, Eliot Spitzer? He’s still too tainted by his own lawbreaking stupidity. Attorney General Andy Cuomo? The state party needs him too badly in his current job…and as a potential Governor candidate, down the line. His dad Mario? Too old. If you’re so convinced Caroline is wrong for the job, let’s hear your alternative choice(s).
The day I first heard of this, the announcement that was made was that CK had called the Governor to ask him what the job would entail.
My thoughts swung immediately to SP and the laughs we had she said she needed to know what the VP’s job was before she decided if she wanted to run.
And then I thought. ANOTHER Kennedy who thinks they deserve a job for life because of their name. Sorry but I agree with the author.
Ditto. And I’m against the dynasties, as well. Caroline, however, has stayed out of the limelight, raised her family, and now wishes to step forward.
I don’t think lack of political experience is necessarily a mark against one. Same for women who stay home and raise their families and then decide to take their experiences into the world.
God knows we could use more women who are family-centered in politics.
Hopefully, that would translate into policies that look forward into protecting the Earth, promoting educational programs that are NOT micromanaging schools, such as No Child Left Behind (I like someone’s quip of No Child Left a Mind), and not in a mindset to leap into war at the drop of a hat.
As has been mentioned about other members of the family, would her name even be mentioned if she were just Caroline Schlossberg and not Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg?
She might well make a wonderful Senator. But she should not get the position due to accident of birth.
mmmmmm, the privileged offspring of blue-blood plutocrats being handed cushy high profile, high responsibility jobs for which they are completely unqualified. Seems to me we’ve run across that scenario before to disastrous ends.
I agree with your premise, Dakine. I don’t like dynasties, either.
I look at Reid and Pelosi, and I think Caroline could get something done. That’s all.
@ boogiecheck, who says: “Caroline, however, has stayed out of the limelight, raised her family, and now wishes to step forward.”
I have to reponds — who cares if Caroline Kennedy wishes to step forward? If she does, she can run for office like everyone else. It’s not like we’ve all been waiting with baited breath for Caroline Kennedy to claim her destiny!
Right on as usual Jane. Laura Stein has a diary and a poll up on Daily Kos about this topic–check it out. She’s with you Jane and she’s supporting Carolyn Maloney and documents why.
Stirling Newberry a few flights upstairs on India.
Can someone list some of the eminently qualified Senators that would put Caroline Kennedy to shame? Because I just can’t seem to think of any currently in office and I can’t think of anyone who is an obviously better choice for the office.
My best-case scenario:
1. The guv appoints her.
2. She responds, in words to this effect:
According to links provided in the comments section, Maloney is DLC.
This appointment thing is troubling to say the least. For one I don’t think Ms Kennedy is unqualified to be senator. All you have to do is look around at the rest of that lot.
She’s not been a down and dirty pol, but she has done a fair amount of public service, is well educated and appears to be more progressive than Hillary and less of an ego maniac.
I’d prefer a special election, and even someone like Cuomo or Spitzer who are fighters, but she’d be fine.
I don’t see how we end these political dynasties until we get money out of politics and it’s truly a service job with few financial benies.
Gww, I always thought that she was a very thoughtful and eloquent speaker on the Constituonal issues, particularly apt chronicaler of the Bill of Rights in the modern vernacular. Who could have ever thought she would be wrong? Jeez, at this time, with our challenges, I’d sure rather our future was in the perview of a Caroline Kennedy than a Sarah Palin. Just sayin’
By the way, her selections in the “profiles in courage awards” such as CA’s Hilda Soliz, shows Ms. Kennedy’s attention to detail.
I’m no fan of legacy, or patronage, but if you’ve done the good work, you should get the credit.
Jane, it seems you are hitting Caroline for exactly what people were hitting Obama for during the campaign, lack of experience. He went for the big prize anyway and won. I would rather have somebody new that might have wisdom, judgement, cool, and poise over some career politician any day. If Caroline wants to go for it, she should. She seems to have a lot of good qualities and has orbited the universe enough to know she can’t just rest on being a Kennedy Kid. She, like Obama, will be under the greatest scrutiny, and if they have the nuts to try and do it, I am all for it. It will also keep a safe seat in New York forever.
Lonely here after dark. Interesting thread!
One very large difference – Obama actually ran and was elected to the office of the Presidency.
Caroline Kennedy is (possibly) asking to be appointed to the seat, giving her the power of incumbency before ever having run for any office before in her life. Whcih smacks of divine right, not based on pure knowledge and ability.
As stated above, she may be quite capable but the US Senate is not a legacy office with certain seats reserved for specific families.
Caroline isn’t like either Hillary or Obama on the experience front. Both of them had experience issues but both of them stood for election. It’s okay if the electorate says “experience isn’t the issue, I like them for other reasons.” But this is an appointed position, with the appointment made by a governor who was never elected. Paterson has no business shoving an appointee down the throats of New Yorkers if we have reasonable questions about the appointee’s qualifications.
mmmmmm, the privileged offspring of blue-blood plutocrats being handed cushy high profile, high responsibility jobs for which they are completely unqualified. Seems to me we’ve run across that scenario before to disastrous ends.
—–
she is perfectly qualified to be a Senator — she is an attorney and member of the DC and NY bars, she has served actively in a number of civic and cultural organizations, she has written books on civil liberties. she is smart and thoughtful. many of her efforts have involved serving public need e.g. raising 65 million for the NY public schools. hold her qualifications and experience up against most of those currently in congress and show us how unqualified she is.
Echoing Jolly Roger at 83:
Not only are dynasties a bad thing in general, but recent history shows that the offspring of successful politicians are usually so-so campaigners and ineffective politicians. A short (and less than exhaustive) list
Al Gore (who always looked as if he were in politics as some sort of filial obligation)
George W. Bush (good campaigner, worst ever otherwise)
Kathleen Townsend (a Kennedy who ran a wretched campaign for Senate in Maryland)
Jerry Brown (in his original incarnation he was successful, but a lightweight or an opportunist, depending on your POV)
Kathleen Brown Rice (another Brown, the only dynasty we have in California, who likewise fumbled away the Senate race to Pete Wilson)
Patrick Kennedy
RFK, Jr. (not a politician, but please don’t give him any responsible positions, least of all the EPA)
FDR’s son Jimmy (who got elected to the House, but so did Patrick Kennedy)
I will allow that a few cases, such as Jesse Jackson, Jr. or Andrew Cuomo, might prove to be exceptions. I don’t know enough to offer any comments on Lisa Murkowski or Beau Biden, but others might.
Where you put Jerry Brown on this list is your call; he at least worked his way into the job by running for and winning a lot of lower-level offices.
Maybe this sounds unscientific, but I think the record of failure is pretty consistent. Hell, even Dante mentioned this problem in the Divine Comedy, so I don’t claim that the idea is original with me.
As has been said many times already, she may well be highly qualified. But if she wants the position she should run for the office in ‘10 and get elected. Not ask to be appointed to the position as if it is a divine right.
I personally believe she would likely do fairly well in office. But not as an appointee without having been elected to any office at any time before.
I agree with you and Sander O and Marshen and some others here, as a matter of fact. I think what I am hearing in the post is, “Step to the back of the line, sister. You haven’t done any grunt work to earn a place at the front of the line,” regardless that Caroline Kennedy’s whole life has been like a total submersion course in politics 101 practically since birth.
Caroline decided long ago that she didn’t want to spend her life looking over her shoulders for paparazzi, any more than she already had to as the martyred President’s daughter (her life has been a matter of public scrutiny and extreme public interest since the family moved into the White House when Caroline was three years old.) She wanted a more private life with her husband in which to raise their three children, but she still managed to hold the position of President of the Kennedy Library Foundation. She also serves as Honorary Chairman of the American Ballet Theater, and is a Director of both the Commission on Presidential Debates and of the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund serves as an advisor to the Harvard Institute of Politics. In her spare time, she also got a law degree, co-founded the Profiles in Courage Award, co-wrote two books on civil rights, and edited other books, but apparently this shrinking violet shows no real accomplishment to qualify as a Senator? Huh? If other women acquired the title of Senator simply because they were married to a Senator when he died, why would we, as progressives, choose to denigrate, belittle or berate Caroline Kennedy’s credentials, qualifications, or qualities? Or could we be so into class warfare that we must insist that Caroline be punished simply because she did not step forward earlier?
Maybe the reason that Caroline is stepping forward now is, like us, she has watched over the last eight years as the pernicious nature of the Bush Administration’s policies decimated our Civil Rights, ground the Constitution under their feet, ruined our reputation with the rest of the world, and killed a lot of people in two wars while they depleted our resources, our armed forces and drowned a major American city. Maybe before she chose to leave politics to those who wanted to become professional politicians. Maybe she’s stepping forward now because she knows she can, and the Bush administration has convinced her that she must. Maybe this is her time to demonstrate a profile in courage and I don’t have any desire to step on that!
I am with you on this, xargaw. The woman is a gem and she has already worked hard for the Obama campaign. Class will tell, and this woman has intelligence, charisma, and class. People seem to always underestimate the Kennedy’s. They laughed at Ted’s coronation as Senator but he is the most effective senator in the Senate. They called Bobby a political hit man for his brother, but he was showing that remarkable Kennedy genius for growth when an idiot murdered him.
Jane, sometimes you whine too much.
Jane, just curious if you knew half of what Ann in AZ wrote in her comments before you decided to whale (and wail) on Caroline. We won, take a breather, go ogle Barack in Hawaii, but cut the man some slack. Why does everyone and his brother and sister feel compelled to appoint themselves Advisor to Barack Obama. Does anyone else sense a whiff of condescension in all of this unsolicited advice?
Name recognition is not a qualification for public office, whether that name be “Bush,” or “Clinton,” or “Kennedy.” The nation recently made a horrible mistake by failing to recognize that simple truth.
Dynasty shmynasty: Is she qualified or not? What office did Teddy Kennedy hold before his election to the Senate? How ’bout Bobby? We need smart, progressive, imaginative people in the Senate. Period. If Al Franken’s dad had been a senator would you want him and his lack of experience in the Senate any less?
Name recognition is also not a disqualification for public office.
With her family background, experiences and such, I see her as a good IMMEDIATE player among all issues. Her work background ain’t shabby, either.
Give it to her, let her run. Let’s see how she does. And groom her for further positions, quickly.
I think we can trust her as a liberal on many issues, and I KNOW we can trust her on women’s issues, healthcare and jobs for the dirty unwashed masses.
That alone is good enuff for this Larue.
SOME of you people in here are just downright mean and nasty anymore on all SORTS of issues. SOME of you folks seem like you would prefer pure chaos and destruction for us all, rather than let the tide roll in with Obama and his will and way.
If I didn’t wonder any better, I’d formulate many of you in with the right wing and the KKK for your posits and pissings.
Harumph.
Doode, doodette, what ever . . . how about you wiki her history at the least and then review her background, accomplishments, goals, and personal beliefs coupled with her family’s influence on her daily, and her general ‘learning’ in both schools and from family?
This is one sharp chick.
She’d excel in ANY capacity. And Senate wise, it means we got one in the bank, and easily elected the next time we need her.
Harumph.
I’m with yer yoohoo, Loo Hoo! *G*
Hey larue-
“one in the bank” is right. But if I were her, I would decline in favor of an appointment. She is multi-qualified and probably immensely capable of a lot more than splitting hairs with that bunch.
The Congress is a cesspool, and no one knows it better than her.
I’ll trust a liberals family offspring FAR more than I’ll trust a non liberals family offspring.
And I’ll trust a Kennedy LONG before I’ll trust anyone else in this position that’s being discussed.
And yes, there’s something to be said for blood lines, pedigree, and generations of family beliefs handed down. I’ll trust the Kennedy family to do right.
You GO Caroline. You just go. Like Obama, till you prove me wrong, I’m with ya, all the phookin way.
N DK, fuck the fuckin Harper, for fuck’s sake. *G*
Yer about to have a miracle, enjoy it and leave us alone down here while we fix OUR shit . . . .;-)
In two months, I hope that Canada and USA are arm in arm and down the road on all progressive issues. EH?!?!? *G
Harumph.
How about you look at her history of politics, service and work history and tell us why she’s NOT qualified on your terms to serve?
I’d LOVE to see yer homework, rather than your banter.
Me, I can stand on my banter, thru wiki or her google name.
You, you need to bring proof and evidence as to why she’s not fit for service. Life is simple, don’t screw it up.
Harumph.
Ann In AZ, I love the way you comment . . . bravo.
*G*
I hate it when you talk like that. It’s so logical. *G*
But dang it, someone has to get dirty, bloody and slug it out in the trenches. I like Caroline for some of that. I think she’s ready for it, too. It’s just time for people to stand up and call shit for what it is.
Obama has. *G*
May many, many more, do so, also. *G*
And Reid, Pelosi and others have failed to do so.
I’ll take ANY person, appointed or not, to shoot for the moon.
And I’ll support them till they show me they are NOT what I want.
Let the horses run . . . free. It’s time for some free range change. *G*
Below are two of her books. Maybe she could teach our current Senators a thing or two. Let’s hope Kennedy and Obama restore our Constitutional rights.
In Our Defense: The Bill of Rights In Action
The Right to Privacy
This is probably EPUed, and maybe LaRue was responding to a different comment, otherwise why the doode,doodette etc. bits.
I wasn’t saying she would be unsuitable, merely that she hasn’t really engaged in competitive action to gain public office, thought she has done good work, gained a good education and comes from a great American family. That is why to avoid the possible tinge of nepotism or Bush style “buddie” family favors, she would be perhaps better off to utilize the advantages she already has (wealth, connections, name recognition, education and experience to most likely win elective office on her own merits, not by appointment. Then the appointment could be used to elevate another “deserving” candidate into a brief period of incumbency – one equally qualified as you think Caroline is, yet less likely to achieve victory without an intitial appointment.
As to your other comment:
Not likely, unless the co-alition representing the two thirds of Canadians who voted for anybody but Harper prevails. As long as Harper is the regressive, neo-con minority or majority Prime Minister of Canada, Canada will replace the US (post Bu$hCo) as the biggest foot dragging obstacle to progressive goals in every area. Currently Harper’s Karl Rove style PR campaign of attack, lie, smear and foster fear has Canadians willing to give him a majority – a sad comment on the pliability of the electorate by an inrresponsible and complicit media.
Given that the current holder of the seat only has it because of her last name, it’s entirely appropriate that the successor to the seat hold it for no better reason than hers (just as her father did). Well, you know, unless we actually are supposed to be a democracy, instead of a hereditary aristocracy.
(This country was lucky that, of the first five Presidents we had, only one had a legitimate biological son. At that, we wound up with the nephew-and-heir of the first president as a Supreme Court Justice, and the firstborn son of the second as President. The tendency to make power hereditary is a disease not easily cured, and prone to cases of relapse.)
I predict she will get the seat. Then all of the negative things you mentioned will happen. After that she will receive a standing ovation. A felony along the way would probably help her fit in with the good old boys. It’s all good in the Senate. They aren’t elected by people. They’re chosen by God.
I just don’t understand why so many of you, including Jane, are so against this. Sometimes I think people support things because they think it will make them popular. You are sucking up to Jane, she’s been on teevee and you have seen her, you know her. Makes you special as a member of the Lake.
Caroline Kennedy is a woman much like Barack Obama; not a lot of technical experience, but someone we know has a personal belief structure that supports our belief system. Someone who has a lifetime of experience living our beliefs. If you doubt this check out her history. Who was one of the first people who supported Obama?
The new Senate is going to face incredible challenges in the upcoming session …. It’s not a place for anyone to be wearing political training wheels.
Do you read your own stuff?
Why should the Presidency (Commander in Chief, CEO, possessor of the nuclear football, et. al.) be different?
She’ll be a shoe in for many of the reasons already mentioned above.
Yes, let’s trash Caroline Kennedy now, because God knows, she’s a do-nothing disgrace with no accomplishments who could never move effectively through the halls of the Senate or anywhere else for that matter. And after all, hasn’t she just been munching down bonbons all these years?
I’m not one of those types who automatically think “Is nothing sacred?” when I hear aspersions being cast at Kennedys, and I thought RFK, Jr., who I like a lot, would have been a terrible replacement. But Caroline is a-OK with me on this one, and I really don’t see how people get to the “Fuck her” point. Sounds like a personal problem to me.
That was supposed to be “shoo in.”
Homonyms got me this morning.
I agree with Apphouse50. For more reasons why Caroline Kennedy would be a good pick, see Al Giordano’s latest post at http://narcosphere.narconews.c…..a-was-cool>
two money quotes:
“Paterson and New York, thus, would not just be getting a Senator. They would get, with Caroline, the driver with the keys to the most finely tuned and influential progressive national political network in American politics, reaching (in many cases invisibly) into levers of power in all branches of government and in many states far from Massachusetts, including among the networks planted by the Southern Civil Rights movement and among Hispanic-American political leaders and organizations from Texas to California for whom “Tio Ted” has been mentor and unflinching ally. (The Kennedys have long been central to the push for multi-racial movements in US politics, one that just became realized with Obama’s election as never before: that will also serve Attorney Kennedy and so many of her constituents well in New York.)”
“Anybody who underestimates Attorney Caroline Kennedy, who wants to view her as somehow lightweight or just a celebrity name inside a business suit, does so at the risk to his and her sense of reality. Her skill sets are not merely adequate, but, rather exceptional and extraordinary. She was “no drama” before “no drama” was cool. And her appointment, if it comes, will be a gift that keeps on giving before and after Ted Kennedy moves on to the great battleground beyond.”