Blue Texan passes along this story:
In a segment aired at the news conference, Johnson tells Sen. Everett Dirksen, the Republican minority leader, that it will be Nixon’s responsibility if the South Vietnamese don’t participate in the peace talks. "This is treason," LBJ says to Dirksen. "I know," Dirksen replies, very softly. Confronting Nixon by telephone on Nov. 3, Johnson outlines what had been alleged and how important it was to the conduct of the war for Nixon’s people not to meddle. "My God," Nixon says to Johnson, "I would never do anything to encourage the South Vietnamese not to come to that conference table." Instead, Nixon pledged to help in any way Johnson or Rusk suggested, "To hell with the political credit, believe me." For Johnson and his top advisers, it wasn’t a matter of whether Nixon was telling the truth but whether accusing Nixon of meddling would give the appearance that Johnson — rather than Nixon — was using the war to influence the election.
On October 31, 1968, President Lyndon Johnson announced on live television that the North Vietnamese government had agreed to continued peace talks in Paris, and to a cessation of attacks on South Vietnamese cities. In return, the U.S. would immediately stop bombing North Vietnam, and peace talks, this time including the Vietcong and the South Vietnamese government, would resume on November 6. Almost overnight, LBJ’s “October Surprise” delivered a much-needed shot of adrenaline to the moribund campaign of his Vice President and would-be successor, Hubert Humphrey, who had been trailing Richard Nixon in the polls throughout October. [...] But Nixon had an October surprise of his own. In the days leading up to LBJ’s announcement, the Nixon team met secretly with Anna Chan Chennault, a wealthy supporter of Chiang Kai-shek, co-chair of Republican Women for Nixon, and confidante of South Vietnamese President Nguyen Van Thieu. At Nixon’s behest, Chennault informed Thieu that Nixon would secure a better deal for his country, and that the Democrats were effectively prepared to sell out Saigon in order to secure peace at any price, as the phrase would later go. If Chennault could convince Thieu to stay away from the negotiating table, LBJ would look foolish, and the Democrats’ eleventh-hour gambit would fail.
And that’s exactly what happened.
But do you know how President Johnson knew that Nixon was lying? The FBI had wiretapped Chennault’s phone, that’s how. Hers, and thousands of other phones belonging to US citizens. That’s something I found – or rather, was reminded of – when looking up Anna Chan Chennault’s story.
Yes, it was illegal, even then. Well before FISA was a gleam in anyone’s eye.
So when people holler about the gutting of FISA and various parts of the Constitution, be aware that illegal wiretapping didn’t start with George W. Bush. It just never came to light most of the time. (Just ask any civil rights leader over the age of sixty.)
It’s not that our Constitution has been irreparably hurt by what’s happened over the past few years — it’s come back from far, far worse. (Again, just ask any civil rights leader over the age of sixty.) Our history has not been a long steady series of increasing limits on freedom; rather, it’s been one where great swaths of the Constitution, up until relatively recently, were honored mostly in the breach — or interpreted in ways that restricted the freedoms of most people, including all women.
This is why, as the late Steve Gilliard said, that running off to Canada or New Zealand or Brazil or whereever — or doing a virtual exile by running away from politics — is not how Americans should react to defeat or setbacks. It is only when we quit that we lose.
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Ding – exactly, PW. Every person who told me during the last year that they were going to Canada got a talking to from me – “We need you to stay here to fight – we all need to fight.” And of course now, we need everyone more than ever.
You got it. When it looks like we’ve won is when we’re most needed.
Huh..when did Hoover die? Was he wiretapping everyone out there?
Great post, Phoenix Woman, and thanks to Blue Texan for passing it on. Mostly, thank you for the reminder that our government sometimes does stuff that it shouldn’t and doesn’t get caught. Also, thanks for urging us to recall that we must be as vigilant about watching Democrats as Republicans.
nixon?
lying?
Well, let’s not forget that Alberto Gonzales told us all that Washington and Lincoln used electronic surveillance and wiretapping too.
Damn founding snoopers.
-G
speaking of Nixon
CSPAN’s rerunning Ron Howard on his Nixon Frost movie
I wish I had a buck (inflation’s killed the nickel and dime) for every time I’ve typed this on these threads in the past couple years:
Never. Give. Up.
1972
the radio interrupted American Pie to broadcast the news :D
a hippy never forgets
Rhetorical Q? I want to know what happened to his files.
I’d like to know about the files on our current congress critters.
lol! when I first read that I thought you wanted to know more about the flies on our current congress critters.
There used to be a wonderful column in the Chicago Tribune with the same title.
As for the rest of this material: I wonder what my 9-year old will discover about our time when she’s 50.
I’ve been saying this for years. Kennedy laughed about passing the war onto the next sucker as he created “the greatest lying machine in history” (Halberstam) to distort the truth about Vietnam. It’s the same old song.
Is it certain there was no warrant to tap Chennault’s phone? What she and Nixon were doing was a violation of national security. Granted, that might not have been known before the conversation was taped.
I got online this AM to find Robert Perry’s article about Reagan’s secret deal with the Iranians and the Russian spy files that spill the beans. Is there a high crime or treason that the criminal conspiracy aka the GOP has not committed?
Another thing learned on the way to looking up other things
“Nixon was, of course, lying:”
This is a perfect, even quintessential, example of what is technically referred to as an “otiose” expression. Otiose literally means lazy, not working, without function. It is applied metaphorically to an expression that has unneeded elements, because it has already expressed the thought completely in other elements. When we say “Nixon”, we have already said “lying”, therefore, to state that Nixon was lying when he made a particular statement to Johnson is otiose.
In this particular statement, the tell is the “of course”. Well, yes, we are talking about Nixon, so, yes, of course he’s lying. So why say it if it’s a given? This is yet another otiose element. The statement would have conveyed the same truth if it had been, not the otiose version above, but simply, “Nixon.”.
There has been a lot of speculation that had he lived, Kennedy would have pulled back rather than escalate the war. Personally, I suspect that would not have been consistent with his hawkish Cold Warrior mindset, especially having had his confidence bolstered by successfully facing down the Russians in Cuba the previous year. We’ll never know.
Treason is a long standing republican tradition that started with Nixon and lives robustly today. Cheney is the obvious link but really it goes back farther and deeper that the Nixon nexus. Can you say Prescott Bush for example?
hehe. all this was pre-me. I was born under Nixon and was still a toddler when he resigned. And, historically speaking, I admit to knowing more about the Polk presidency (another arsehole) than I do about Kennedy, Johnson or Nixon.
Being born under Nixon must have made for an awkward delivery. “g”
IIRC Hoover hated the Chenaults. Clare, the founder of the Flying Tigers, hated Hoover. Hoover spied on and wiretapped whoever he wanted to, warrants be damned. I don’t remember what happened to his personal files, where he kept all the dirt on people he considered enemies, which was just about everybody in DC.
That too, but no chance.
Blub,
That’s too bad.
If Nixon had been Impeached, we might have avoided this mess with the Republicans now.
Then again maybe not.
here’s what supposedly happened to them.
Inside J. Edgar’s X-Rated Files
Yeah, what I’ve read within the last several years on JFK makes it seem dubious that he would have done anything other than escalate VN. There are more myths about him, probably owing to his short tenure & tragic death. Everyone seems to write their own hopes & desires on him.
Yeah, Hoover never needed a warrant and it’s a safe bet he didn’t require anybody else in the agency to get them, at least not to spy on people for political reasons. They might have done it when they intended to bring criminal charges against people, somewhat doubtful even then. They probably could have arranged to have a sympathetic (i.e. blackmailed) judge backdate a warrant if they ever needed one.
It’s a counterfactual, so we can all rewrite history to suit ourselves. My version is that impeaching and convicting Nixon would have sent a very strong signal to future prezs, causing them to walk a narrower line than they would if they thought they could get away with everything. That may not have stopped W & Shooter, but it would have left us with an historic model for dealing with them, that spineless Nancy took off the table. She wouldn’t have been able to do that if Nixon had been successfully prosecuted.
Hoover died in 1972. Allegedly the only two entities that ever really reined him in were the Mafia and DEA czar Harry Anslinger — and both were rivals for his power rather than influences for good.
If Nixon had been imprisoned it would have established an important precedent but I’m not sure it would have prevented the abuses of the Bush regime. The lesson of Watergate SHOULD have been that nobody is above the law. The lesson people like Cheney learned was CYA.
Thanks for the link. I missed the story at the time.
There is some totally bizarre thing on TV now where Bush was led out by an Army and Naval cadet across a football field where he kicks a football about 10 yards barely breaking stride and then is led off. I think a goat mascot would have had more stature.
Ian’s up
Probably the goat would kicked it better, too. I think Shrub needs the leaders to find the field, any more, he’s so plastered all the time.
(Must be the Army-Navy game; they were hyping it last weekend as ‘America’s game’. Like h*ll.)
LOL You’re right the goat would have done a better job.
Nah, Hoover was usually only tapping outspoken blacks and the antiwar types — commie-infiltrated student protesters, hippies, weirdos and beardos — and those in high office thought by him or Lyndon to be insufficiently loyal to LBJ’s VN policy.
Edgar also was no dummy. He wouldn’t have acted on his own re tapping Chennault or any other high-profile figure, and would have sought a green light from the WH. Here, the record indicates that LBJ instructed Hoover to tap Chennault.
LBJ, interestingly, also had the FBI tap the phones of his own vice president, Hubert Humphrey, in 1968 — someone Lyndon thought was about to embarrass him politically with a sudden statement calling for a negotiated settlement/withdrawal from VN. Alas, Hubert didn’t have the cojones to take such a step …
PW,
Thanks for this history lesson.
Our Constitution expresses a Vision that we must always strive for, no matter how much we wander.
Bob in HI
a friend and fellow patriot stresses the same exact thing when talk of leaving to Canada ever comes into conversation. He reminds everyone continually that things are NO BETTER up there and we have to stay here and stand our ground, fight here and now. There’s no place better, really, and this country needs all hands on deck NOW.
i think it’s wise to keep in mind that we are fighting not only previous administrative abuses, but our current congress who is complicit at best in many of these travesties against the Constitution.
Congress is as much to blame for everything Bu$hCo did as the crime family is itself!
“Well, let’s not forget that Alberto Gonzales told us all that Washington and Lincoln used electronic surveillance and wiretapping too.
Damn founding snoopers.
-G”
Actually Lincoln did wiretap. There was some smart rewiring of the Confederate Telegraph Lines that went on from time to time, allowing the Union to “read” some of what was being reported to Richmond.
“IIRC Hoover hated the Chenaults. Clare, the founder of the Flying Tigers, hated Hoover. Hoover spied on and wiretapped whoever he wanted to, warrants be damned. I don’t remember what happened to his personal files, where he kept all the dirt on people he considered enemies, which was just about everybody in DC.”
According to Curt Gentry, “J.Edgar Hoover: The Man and his Secrets” all the files in his and has secretary, Helen Gandy’s office, were taken away the day he died to Hoover’s home, and in the following weeks they were sorted and mostly destroyed. Hoover’s pal, Tolsen supervised the removal of the files, and they were out of FBI HQ by 11AM the day Hoover died. Tolsen was deputy director, and after he fulfilled Hoover’s intent that his confidential files never see the light of day, he retired at about noon the day Hoover died.
One of Nixon’s reasons for appointing L. Patrick Gray as acting director was that he wanted Gray to get the files for the White House, but Tolsen and Gandy beat him to it, and when Gray arrived several days later, they were long gone. Gray was not an expert on the FBI filing system, didn’t know how things were coded in Hoover’s office, so when he asked for files, they gave him junk.
Apparently Tolsen’s apartment and Hoover’s house was stacked high with files after their removal, and over a number of weeks they read them, sorted them, and destroyed most of the contents.
Anyone catch his Presidential Radio Address this morning. Bush was back defending his decision to invade Iraq and claiming he won the war there. But what struck me is that his voice had dropped about two octaves. It almost didn’t sound like Bush giving the speech. Have to think that something is up with his health.
OT….but apparently India and Pakistan almost went to war after the Mumbai attacks because of a belligerent phone call…that turned out to be a prank.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..1908.shtml
great link. thanks.