speaking of torture, EPU’d:

(12-04) 18:02 PST — Berkeley’s City Council will delve into national policy again next week when it votes whether to demand the United States charge Berkeley resident and former Bush adviser John Yoo with war crimes.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Your Democratic Party:

A bitchy letter, no investigations or actions.

Obama’s rhetoric sounds a much higher tone, and we can only hope his leadership will match the rhetotic.

Even then, I see no scientific breakthroughs to promote the growth of cojones in Democratic congressmen.

Yes I did a little editing for you in the last thread.

Really? you mean he’s actually taking some heat? I never thought I’d see the day….

I see no scientific breakthroughs to promote the growth of cojones in Democratic congressmen.

That won’t happen (growth of cojones) while Democratic Congresscritters are being pendejos (wankers).

sorry to go off topic lhp but I know you would like to get a jump on this;

loyal bush attorneys refusing to tender their resignation for obama

Maybe she will be involved in a fake investigation that takes up lots of money and gets killed by dems and reps alike as well. Without accountability and merit-based action there is no hope.

Wonder what this person doesn’t understand about serving at the pleasure of the President?

nadler and conyers write an awesome sternly worded letter. this is one is a keeper.

Thanks for that news punaise! If only government officials in Washington had the good sense of Berkeley City Councillors. I will be keeping my fingers crossed on that vote!

perris — so if they refuse to resign, they can still be fired can’t they?

I hope thatz whut happenz

Digg it pups!
Gee I wonder why he gets these letters. He is just the cover in a coverup of the laws broken by Bush and his administration!

Ouchy

I love the “our greatest concern is it appears you are pre-judging ongoing investigations”

that was good stuff!

he may be tryin to absolve hiself (cya) from te fallout that will occur later. wonder if he gets a pardon?

I’m not a lawyer. How is “no evidence that anybody rendering a legal opinion that allowed torture did so in bad faith, or something other than the belief that they were acting lawfully” a sound defense?

Torture was/is illegal. If committing a crime is justified if the act was based on an opinion from a lawyer that it was legal to do something illegal is a real defense, then the entire justice system in this country is meaningless. One can always find a lawyer willing to render the legal opinion that X is lawful.

Another forkin’ letter……..BFD! Anybody got a spare BP pill? :-(((

So next time I get stopped by our peace officers I can say “I believe I was acting within the law, so buzz off”.

is there a problem?

okay, legal is only what the shrub says it is. that is the (sound) defense.

nicely done, thanks.

purely symbolic gesture by the toothless tiger that is Berkeley city govt. Still, better than nothing.

So next time I get stopped by our peace officers I can say “I believe I was acting within the law, so buzz off”.

excellant analogy

I hear Tasers make a buzzing sound.

maybe the shrub administration will take the moral high ground speak up about the diabolical torture the Indians are allegedly using against their single captured terrorist from the Mumbai attacks.

The Scotsman: “”A terrorist of this sort is never co-operative. We have to extract information,” said Deven Bharti, the head of the Mumbai crime branch.”

but…

Times UK: “Foreign security agencies – including US, Israeli and, possibly, British specialists – are poised to be given “informal, unofficial” access to Kasab, one official source said.”

Um… maybe not.

Can’t they haul Mukasey’s arse before their Committee?

Oh lhp, no need to feel too worried for the AG – haven’t you heard?

Murky has Rachel Paulose on staff to screen his mail!

Unuh. You have to have an opinion from a lawyer not acting in bad faith that says he/she thinks what you did was legal. *g*

oh.. shrub USA appointees are refusing to honor custom and quit their jobs upon the presidential transition, including the creature who hired Commissar Goodling:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/…..hanan-job/

Perris, it’s not as strange as it sounds.

Pre-Clintion USA’s tendered their resignations upon the inauguration of a new President, but the new president did not accept them until a replacement was found, so there were many holderovers. IN NYS pursuant to an agreement between Dniel Patrick Moynahan nad Jacob javits, the tradition was the the holderover stayed on to finish their 4 year term, which made things more a political.

When Clinton became pres, he fired accpeted the resignations of all the Bush USAs all at once, which cause d a ton of chaos and was a gaff, IMHO.

Whe 9-11 happened MAry Jo White, who was staying util the end of her 4 term, issued a statemetn saying that Bush should keep her on past the end of her term b/c of her expertise in terror.

Bush did not keep her.

Buchanan is not as out of line at it would seem at first glance

They just do not tire of pleasuring President Bush…..

Me too, it violates just about ever code of prosecutorial ethics you can think of

oh sorry Perris and lhp, I just saw your comments on Buchanan.. didn’t mean to repeat anyone in #29.

Buchanan is not as out of line at it would seem at first glance

I think this should be a decision of the president not the ag, I believe all should tender their resignation and obama decide which have value and which do not

they should all move into his new suburban mcmansion in Dallas. http://voices.washingtonpost.c…..id=topnews

make it the new playboy manse…

I assume Buchanan’s thinking is that if Obama had no problem with a Republican apologist like Lieberman why should he have any problem with her?

Torture was/is illegal. If committing a crime is justified if the act was based on an opinion from a lawyer that it was legal to do something illegal is a real defense, then the entire justice system in this country is meaningless. One can always find a lawyer willing to render the legal opinion that X is lawful.

Getting an opion letter can cover your ass to some extent.There are two big exceptions to that
1) when the opinion is os ridiculous on its face that any layman should have known it was bullshit–which is what the Judge in the telco lawsuits found about the still secret telco immunity opinion

2) when you haven’t read it, which is the case in the torture cases

Addington wouldn’t let anybody actually see the memo, so it is legally impossible for them to have relied on it

Not to give you legal advise–I’m NOT giving you legal advice–But I wouldn’t try that

I suspect that Nadler is currently begging Conyers to let him do just that

I heard. It made me laugh

he might just refuse.

The tendering of the resignation thingy, was a courtesy, a politeness, a show of grace, it is not legally required of them, They are actually appointed to a term of 4 years.

Although it was charming custom, I actually prefer the NY holdover system, it is less political.

Actually, I think she just did it to get some press and show potential employers what a loyal gooper she is

Who Conyers? He might not call a hearing. I think it depends on whether Mukasey’s reply is stupid and confrontational.

no the ag might refuse.

yeah… ‘cept in this case we’re talking about a bunch of incompetent ideologues — little more than Palinist-type commissars for the religious right. I hope Obama’s willing to apply the necessary pressure to get these people to quit.

Oh, well that fight is yet to be resolved.
Without at DOJ willing to enforce Congressional subpoenas, the committees are neutered for now.

but in a month and 1/2 we will have a DOJ that, I assume WILL enforce Cong subpoenas, so I’m curious to see what Congress does then

I’d rather see them file a complaint with Mukasey’s home bar (is that NY?) than haul him before a committee. Or possible a complaint with one of the many courts where torture cases are pending, requesting an Order of SHUT UP and maybe requiring that he make a filing with the court explaining why DOJ shouldn’t be subject to sanctions for his statements.

I think Buchanon is angling for a lot of press, bc she has pretty unabashed poltical aspirations. Plus, she’s in the web of the attorney firing investigation and it’s a good ploy for her – if the investigation is going to be critical of her in particular, she’s going to be able to parse out her … whatever – and try to gobbledygook that if Obama fires here, he’d be doing the “same thing” as what the investigation may criticize her for.

If anyone was playing hardball, they’d make sure that there was a special investigation started – special counsel or if we get independent counsel back, preferably that, and put her in the center of a target on the Wecht prosecution and the retaliation against Wecht as a coroner stating that the Abu Ghraib “enhanced interrogation” was murder. That gives a pretty different grounds to remove her – bc she is under investigation for retaliation against a potential witness in a murder case. OTOH, Obama won’t go there, so it’s all going to be a matter of Mary Beth getting herself some poltical PR and points.

Not every USA in the system was/is an incompetent idealogue. If that were true, how do you account for the bunch that got fired for actually trying to do their jobs, how do you account for PatFitz?

yes, yes, and yes

43 – when you are nice and succinct, you beat the bad typist non-succincts to the punch every time. *g*

It would be interesting for Obama to offer back the slots to a few of the Republican USAs who were removed. Carol Lam has a nice slot now, but if she doesn’t want to give it up, she needs some kind of kudos appointment to something prestigious imo.

I’m talking about Buchanan and her buddies, not generally.

I have the impression that Iglesias and McKay would view re-appointment as vindication and would probably bust a gut like never before to do the rightest bested most perfectly ethical thing every time, because it would matter so very much to them.

It would be like a religious thing, to show how angels dancing on the head of a pin do the USA gig.

I’d rather see them file a complaint with Mukasey’s home bar (is that NY?) than haul him before a committee….

Ding!

Otherwise, as ever, the road to hell is paved with toothless admonitions.

I don’t think Obama could go that wrong with Iglesias and McKay.

The Liebermaning of American politics.

Mukasey’s home bar IS New York, which so far has not seen fit to disbar Scooter Libby (don’t get me started)

But before anyody goes after anybody else–John Yoo is nt fit to be called a lawyer. His abuse of precedent has to be consequenced. It is just some many orders of magnitude worse than anything Mukasey, or even Libby, has done

Didn’t Paul Charleton of AZ also have a pretty good reputation for fairness and honesty?

True, but I should hope that our system can walk and chew Yoo at the same time.

SWEEET!!!!!

It’s the Return of the Sternly Worded Letter!

Hilarious, Conyers must think people still fall for his act.

….”letters, he gets letters, he gets lots and lots of letters”….

aha! Perry Como.

I think so. It’s just that I have spoken to McKay and we did the book salon with Inglasies and the impression I got is that they are looking for vindication.

And I’m sure they considered ethical behavior part of the job all along. But if they went back now, that ethics would becomethe cerpiece of everything they did.

This would have a good effect throughout the Department.

Is that where it’s from? I had that jingle going in my head and could not remeber where it was from, though I knew it was from early childhood.

thanks for placing it for me