4) Why would Durbin risk his own reputation—and possibly bring the Fitzgerald microscope upon himself—to help out a GOP felon?

Illinois Politics there is really no Dem or GOP there is money to be divided and patronage jobs.

invest heavily in tinfoil—it’s the only sure thing in today’s market.

raise the aluminum wage: past performance is no guarantee of futury sulks… :~)

In re the post title:
Ya think?

Non-partisan influence peddling is a hallowed tradition in Springfield

I think you might be right. Still Ryan did set free EVERYONE on Death row in Illinois. Sure he might have been trying to buy goodwill because he was in trouble.
But I can’t think of a single person who has saved more lives that is getting a pardon.
Sure his license for bribes scandal did result in a family getting killed But he did try and make up for it.
How many people getting pardons try and fix the wrongs they caused?

Wow! that’s really good/bad even for you.

Ryan had little if any complicity in the wrongful Death Row convictions.
Also, he (thankfully) did not set all the Death Row prisoners free (some of them were guilty), but commuted their sentences to life.

Do you really think that there was not a single person in Death Row who belonged there–setting aside whether the death penalty is good or bad.

I am not a death penalty supporter. But didn’t Ryan say he was doing that because he thought the process in Illinois was tainted. It’s not like he did the hard work of trying to ferret out who did and did not belong there, legally.

Which makes me think (even though I am opposed to the death penalty) that what Ryan did was stunt, not a sincere act. So, why should he get any credit for it?

Ryan had little if any complicity in the wrongful Death Row convictions.

Never said he did he was in trouble for the license for bribe scandal. You are right about some people just getting life sentences.

replying to 7

But why not commute them all and let then let the system work? Appeals can be had in these cases when new evidence presents itself.

I admit to not being familiar with the specifics of these cases, but the timing and wholesale nature of it, just smacked of publicity stunt

That’s it. I’m buying Reynolds and Alcoa.

Fitz!

Ahhhh, that felt good.

It’s not like he did the hard work of trying to ferret out who did and did not belong there, legally.

I thought the point of the pardons was that it is impossible to do what you suggest because of the rotten process

LHP doubleheader today — w00t!

We really need to erect a statue and name elementary schools after Pat Fitzgerald. There is really just one man keeping this putrid City and State (that I call home) honest.

Big disappointment in Durbin. Feh…

Send Pachacutec in to ask Durbin — he has a really good relationship with the senior Illinois Senator! Maybe Durbin will ask him again what color socks he wore last Tuesday, or some such silliness…. *g*

“how low can he go?” :~)

In all honesty, I’m not familiar enough with the details of the individuals who were on death row. I saw press accounts that said there was a problem with some of the convictions. then I saw press accounts about a very beleaguered Ryan pardoning and commuting the whole kit and caboodle.

You would have to accept the premise that the system was tainted AND there was no other way to ferret out the truth.

I premise that I have never seen any case for.

I oppose the death penalty, so I saw no reason to look a gift horse in the mouth. The GOP didn’t look into it b/c they would have no incentive to keep their felon on the front page.

I just don’t buy the premise that this was the best path to righting that wrong and the timing of it and the wholesale nature of it seemed WAY too Bright Shiny Object to me

I was there for the last Pach-Durbin interview. Strong stuff.

Not to get into a tug of war with you, but

New York wants him back. He’s our home grown boy.

Is that Mrs. Rennebohm in the picture or some other respectable matron in another local?

Cause he could have chosen to do another stunt, or turn snitch to save his hide instead he chose to set the people free.
I wish I could say that there was not a single person on deathrow who belonged there.
But could you tell me just who did get a fair trial? The system is broken.
Also Ryan could not find out who was guilty and not guilty just one case where they tried to do that the Rolondo Cruz case took years Prosecutors lied, cops lied politicians ran for office and won by putting him away.
The GOP Prosecutors even had a suspect willing to confess and provide details his only demand was no death penalty.
But the Prosecutors those servants of the law did not want to wreck their political careers.
They got theirs though when after Rolondo was found innocent the Illinois GOP was destroyed.

I think just as Ryan had multiple reasons for commuting death sentences in Illinois to life in prison Durbin probably also has multiple reasons for pardon request. I would say it is less about a potential future pardon of Blagojevich (because not that many Democrats in Illinois like him) and more of a defense of the political class to which Durbin belongs, sort of a riff on what Obama did for Lieberman.

I’m with you eCAHN, it is about the process being tainted such that no one was afforded a fair shake. I am totally against the State killing members of the State. So many reasons for this….

Durbin was a perfectly adequate Junior Senator from Illinois.

I didn’t follow it closely enough to know the answer to my own Q. But that was my vague understanding at the time.

As for grandstanding, he’s a pol. What else would you expect? If he’s gonna do something unusual, do it with a splash. I don’t fault him for that, and it’s the kind of political grandstanding I actually approve of, i.e., get as much press as you can for doing something good.

Disclosure: I also oppose the death penalty (that much is obvious), and because I’m not a lawyer, I don’t particularly care how you get people off death row.

We need him more here.

Rolondo was found innocent the Illinois GOP was destroyed.

The Illinois GOP destroyed? I thought the whole point of the combine was that neither party ever really suffers “defeat”. They just keep on scratching each others backs

Chicago Commander Burg had homemade electro-shock torture devices.
Hard to sort out the bad guys with good guys like that.
Setting a sociopathic killer loose because he was tortured by a sociopathic law enforcement officer is still not in the community’s best interests.
BUt there were a number of now documented innocent men on Death Row.

I sincerely don’t know how one can call oneself a Progressive, believing the State has the right to kill a human of the State.

This was supposed to be a reply to lhp

I would not discount the effect of the phenomenon you describe

off to do my little bit for the economy and pick up the kid from school

We miss him more here. *g*

Blago *is* going down though.

IIRC there were about 13 inmates who were on death row in Illinois whose convictions got overturned. As this was going on, Ryan put a moratorium on executions not though I think there had been one for a few years. On his way out of office Ryan converted the moratorium into the commutations.

I’m going back on memory, which is a risky thing, but being in a sister state, IIRC what happened on the death penalty cases was that there was a case where DNA evidence was finally looked at got someone off. Again, IIRC, it involved a guy who wasn’t quite right, whose family (parents he was living with?) was killed and who got railroaded through pretty fast as “the murderer” and sentenced to death – and maybe it turned out that the killing was actually done by a gang (I kinda remember motorcycles invovled, and am wondering it if was tied to some of the East St. Louis crimes?)

In any event, naive though I may be (and I don’t get accused of that a lot) I really think Ryan did a pretty tough investigation into the status of cases and did decide that there was both a likelihood of a lot of taint in the system and a very difficult situation to try to resolve with any clarity and order. In a way, I think Fitgerald’s work has done nothing but highlight that Ryan was right – between the Burge/police torture cases and the recent investigation where 15 police officers are being charged for moonlighting for criminals – (or at least, stinginals).

Ryan’s position was NOT easy for him at the time – I do remember that. He caught all kinds of flack for it and some of it was very vicious. He commuted btw – didn’t free anyone. I admit that, even though I support the death penalty (kinda) I admired what he did and the way he hung tough on it even with the crazies going after him.

If Ryan’s trucking scheme et al hadn’t resulted in the deaths it did, I’d actually have a pretty easy time supporting Durbin’s request (which is also for commutation, not pardon, isn’t it?) I don’t have a strong feeling on this one, but I do think that someone can legitimately look at what Ryan did on dp and think it is a big mitigator for some of the other bad stuff he did, albeit one that could not be taken into account in his criminal proceeding.

I would tend to wonder, too, if Durbin worked directly with Ryan on that situation. I don’t know, don’t know what Durbin’s position on DP is either, but if he worked closely with the Rep Gov to get that result, he might well, on a personal level, feel he owes him something.

OTOH, there might well be all the political machinations going on too -or even just ‘in addition to’

It’s sure starting to look like Blago’s days as free man are numbered.

Q for you: If Blago has to resign who replaces him under Illinois constitution?

I’m curious about who that person might be because, depending on timing, the replacement may be picking Obama’s successor in the senate, so it would be fun to keep an eye on who’s sucking up to the Governor to be.

“Which makes me think (even though I am opposed to the death penalty) that what Ryan did was stunt, not a sincere act. So, why should he get any credit for it?”

Because we can’t read minds or truly know another persons motivation? Doing something good, whatever the purpose, still results in good being done and should be welcomed. If we’re going to put the positive actions of everyone to this test of “sincerity” I doubt very many would be found to deserve any credit for anything.

Don’t know. Which is why I labeled the above a tin foil hat theory.

it may also be that the compression of time is the only reason that Durbin’s statements about Pardon for Ryan are so close in time with saying that he wants to have a sit with Pat and find out what Pat “wants to do” before supporting his renomination as AUSA.

If Pat did NOT want the job, the public would know this already, just like when he squelched GOP rumors that he was going to run for office.

So, why does Durbin need to ask? I’m not saying they should not have a meeting as courtesy thing, but why would Durbin ANNOUNCE that he wants to have this sit down.

it’s completely superfluous and somewhat inappropriate

Governor Ryan gone, Sen Peter Fitzgerald gone, GOP candidate for Governor Jim Ryan (no relation) gone also former Prosecutor of Rolondo Cruz, Joe Birkett another Prosecutor of Rolondo Cruz the case lasted years lost for states attorney? to Lisa Madigan, is thinking of running again…he must be stopped
Another Ryan (again no relation)made his actress wife 7 of 9 from Star Trek Voyager cry when he took her to a sex club the Trekies are not to trifled with! Ryan dropped out the GOP brought in Alan Keyes who’s daughter decided she was gay and Alan kicked her out.
Alan lost to Obama for Senator.
Is that enough Decimation for you:)

Durbin: “leggo my Blago”

The Illinois GOP destroyed? I thought the whole point of the combine was that neither party ever really suffers “defeat”. They just keep on scratching each others backs

They tried to scratch each others backs but it was like the Bush Presidency they made every mistake possible only unlike Bush they got caught at election time. That year any Dem could and did win.

That one was Great:)

I totally forgot about him thanks for bringing him up. I hope they investigate Daley he was the State’s Attorney? Chicago Attorney? in charge of that evil man.

Look pardoning Ryan does NOT fit withon the Ofice od Pardon Attorney guidelines. he has not served his sentence, he has not lived an exempalry life since returning to the outside world, he has not done acts of attonement since returning to the outside world.

he is not currentlyserving a life sentence -which is the exception for pardoing people who have not already completed their sentences and proven they can live a blameless life on the outside.

Why does he get more/better privledges than everybody else? It was only becaue he was a governor that he could do the pardons/commutations. the very office he prosteuted.

he should be RWARDED for merely using his power in an apprpopriate way?

So, any act he did as governoer that was not evil or criminal is something he should be rewared for? Assuming you are right and he did it for the right reasons–which I still don’t–aren’t governors and all elected officials SUPPOSED to make their decisions in office for the right reasons?

Isn’t shouldn’t that be SOP [stanadrd operating procedcure]? why does he get “credit” for simply doing his job correctly on a given day?

One of the biggest things that tainted the cases of the prisoners on death row in Illinois was torture. Now that Jon Burge has been arrested and will stand trial on torture charges, we may see the extent of it. For that alone, Governor Ryan said no to the use of evidence that the New York Times has implicitly accepted on occasion (The Times has reported as fact allegations of terrorism that are based fundamentally on evidence collected by the torture of “high-value detainees”). But with nobody knowing about the tortures, everything from putting plastic bags over prisoner’s heads to hooking them up to telephone magnetos, and all the rubber hose and telephone book beatings in between, Mr. Ryan’s stand doesn’t get much airplay. But he’s on trial for those pardons as much as for anything else. Like a certain governor in Alabama, and the one that went after AIG in New York.

and maybe it turned out that the killing was actually done by a gang (I kinda remember motorcycles invovled, and am wondering it if was tied to some of the East St. Louis crimes?)

The Guy was from Harvard Illinois just on the Wisconsin border nut maybe the gangs were based in St Louis.

The Guy was from Harvard Illinois just on the Wisconsin border nut maybe the gangs were based in St Louis

should read

The Guy was from Harvard Illinois just on the Wisconsin border maybe the gangs were based in St Louis

sorry

I just don’t see how anyone who considers themselves a liberal or a progressive can support capital punishment in any way. The State having the legal right to kill a citizen of the State, just doesn’t seem logical to me. Philosophically, it is so wrong.

Actually, I have no opinion, one way or the other non whether Ryan should be pardoned. I merely point out that it isn’t possible to judge the purity of another persons motives. And yes, I do think that people should be given credit for doing their jobs and also blame for failing to do so.

Well a lot of Prosecutors built their political careers on putting away those guys in a sense he went against all of them, even Bush who was running for office at the time.
It is hard to stand against the crowd. Has any other state with funny death row cases done what Ryan did…like say Texas?

I consider Ryan a hero for what he did in Illinois.

Nobody else in America has stopped the Death Penalty like he did.

The line has to be drawn somewhere. When do you become as bad as the people you are killing?

Don’t know Don’t want to find out going upstairs:)

It is just like torture, where is the line drawn? Who decides who deserves to be tortured? Who decides whether torture is allowed? Who decides what torture is? When do those who torture become as evil as those they believe should be tortured?

Yet when torture has been concluded by the best minds to be of no use at getting to the “truth”, there have been many Americans who have tortured others due simply to “sadism”, yet they are not prosecuted, nor are they ever likely to be prosecuted.

Good Question I’m going back upstairs

48 – I’m not sure which guy you mean, but I did find a link to the case I remember – Gary Gauger and I think that’s who you were directing me to as well.

I don’t think I processed or remembered WI border, so the East St. Louis was probably just a connection I made at the time since there were a lot of motorcycle related crimes going on then.

It was a sad case, esp with the brother believing, even after the conviction was overturned, that he did it – until the information on the Outlaws gang.

Looseheadprop.

WTF!!?

Blago hasn’t even been accused of a crime and you think there’s a conspiracy to pardon him?

Guilt by association.

Pat Quinn is I believe the Lt. Governor and would succeed if Blago had to resing. He and Blago do not get along.

I don’t think you will find too many supporters of capital punishment at the Lake

Ah, Mario Cuomo?

I have a simpler opposition t the death penalty. If you find out later that you made made a mistake, there is NOTHING you can do to mitigate it.

Also, from a former prosecutors point of view, I think it encourages baseless aquittals when jurors really come face to face with such a heavy decision.

Sofie,
I did a very extended series on torture and the Yoo torture memos. The graphic for every on eof those posts was abnner being held by a portester.

It said “torture is wrong”.

No one on this site advocates torture. Quite the opposite

Hence my admonition to invest in tin foil.

I’m not saying this is fact. i’m saying that a nagging doubt I had previously dismissed outright has been rekindled by todays news.

That’s all.

It’s not gospel. It’s a specualtion. No, it’s less than a specualtion, it’s a tin foil hat moment.

Don’t get along? details?

Since GOPers go after Dems by repeating fake accusations, I think this post is just reinforcing a often used tactic against Dems execs. I also expect this line of attack, guilt by association, will be used to smear a IL and Chicago Pol, Obama. Just wait.

Why feed it?

I haven’t any idea what the Gov’s done but for Christ’s sake, the Tribune’s and Suntimes have been horrible and partisan against a fairly progressive governor.

Again, there’s nothing despite the fact he man’s got Fitz, a hostile Dem leader, Madigan and two GOPphilic newspapers.

They got nothing.

CA had Willie Brown, another Pol who was always accused by association, but they never found anything on the man. It’s just a way to weaken a storng Dem voice.

I am equating, in my own way, torture with capital punishment.

Not that anyone here advocates capital punishment. Just thinking out loud.

Looks like the Blago death watch has begun

Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn demanded today that Gov. Rod Blagojevich immediately explain himself to the public following the Tribune’s disclosure that the governor has been covertly taped by federal authorities investigating corruption in state government.

“I think the governor has a short period of time to come forward and level with the people of Illinois,” Quinn said.

Well, in this pond, sister, that’s preaching to the choir

I guess Hugh was right that The Ly Gov does not get along with Blago

LHP,
FWIW I believe Durbin asked Bush to commute Ryan’s sentence to time served.

Sun Times article about commuting

To anybody coming in for an EPU read. Very funny take on this to be found here