Last night I was on Fox Business News with Neil Cavuto, talking about — among other things — the domestic auto industry bridge loan. He asked if liberals were in favor of the "bailout" in support of the unions. I said I personally supported it as part of a level playing field, considering the government subsidies that foreign auto makers have enjoyed on these shores of late.
In his November 20 press conference (PDF), the UAW’s Ron Gettelfinger spoke about the "incentives" foreign auto makers have received from red, right-to-work states where unionizing is legally restricted and unions practically nonexistent:
Since 1992, states where we have transplants have located have put in over $3 billion dollars in incentives and I would point out that is the money that the state settled for and I want to go specifically to Alabama if I could for a minute. We have Hyundai Motor Company that got $252 million in incentives. Toyota there got $29 million in incentives. Honda, $158 million and Mercedes $253 million in incentives. It just seems odd to us that we can help the financial institutions in this country and that we can offer incentives to our competitors to come here and compete against us but at the same time, we are willing to walk away from an industry that is the backbone of our economy.
And while I read these figures to you, which are the actual figures that we have been able to dig up. I want to go to one particular story and that is the plant in Mercedes, the Mercedes plant in Alabama.
As it turned out, as I said Alabama offered $253 million but the state offered to train the workers, clear and improve the sites, upgrade the utilities, buy 2,500 vehicles and it is estimated that that incentive package totaled somewhere around $175,000/per employee to create those jobs there. And on top of this, that state gave this automaker a large parcel of land-around $250-$300 million dollars. That was the same price or cost to them of building a facility.
So we can support our competition but we can’t support an industry that is in need? And this need was not brought about because of what the industry has done.
In his remarkable book Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense [and Stick You with the Bill], David Cay Johnston of the New York Times writes about the fiction that local small business are at a competitive disadvantage to WalMart because of a big box store’s ability to buy in bulk. In fact, WalMart regularly goes into communities and demands subsidies to build in the area such that they keep the sales tax they collect and don’t pay property tax. Local businesses, with no such tax advantages, must charge higher prices to make a profit and quickly start going out of business.
The domestic automakers are struggling under the same burden against their foreign competitors with the subsidies they receive. I asked Johnston about the situation, and he responded:
The current Detroit bailout debate has the Washington source-dependent press corps reporting that the Michiganders are seeking favors, but not the Alabama/South Carolina/Tennessee/etc. crowd, ignoring the huge state subsidies to foreign-owned auto plants, the implicit subsidy in federal law that makes union organizing almost impossible and the advantage that new plants have over older ones. I get sooooo frustrated at the awfulness of so much DC coverage…..which could be cured by actually reading the voluminous public record, resulting in less reliance on access to sources.
The journalistic coverage of this story has been truly awful, largely framed by anti-union zealots like Alabama’s own Richard Shelby, who decries Detroit’s "failed business model" but has vigorously fought every attempt to raise CAFE standards that could have made the industry more resilient against fluctuating gas prices.
Anyway, I had fun on Cavuto. He asked good questions, listened to my answers and I got to make the case about subsidies to foreign automakers on TV, which I never thought I’d be able to do — and certainly not on Fox Business News.
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Cone on, Jane!! Could you have told us you’d be on? I don’t think any of us like Cavuto, but we’d put up with him to watch you. ;-)
You are my hero!
I am hoping this gets some kind of video post, would love to see it
I’m listening to Dodd’s opening statements. Yep, this is turning into a pissing contest between Dems and Bush, as to whether the funds come from Energy Fund or TARP.
Great that there’s a game of political chicken that could result in GM going down. Because that Lehman’s thing went so very well…
Treasury & Fed Reserve declined invitations to testify. Dodd sent letter to Helicopter Ben asking him if there was any reason why money couldn’t come from TARP.
excellent jane. thank you.
if only david cay johnson was reporting on economics for the nyt, instead of the amazingly lame david leonhardt.
We had problems with the toobz. Unfortunately, lots of folks (including me) don’t get Fox Business News.
i’m listening too (also posted an oxdown diary with some details and links).
this morning on cspan, the commerce secretary said that the bush administration was sure that congress intended that the TARP be used only to help the financial industry – not manufacturing.
Jane,
You exactly hit the bulls-eye with this post. I have come to believe in the past year or so that a big piece of American social and economic history in the past 35 years or so has involved the ripping off of the American people by a comparatively small number of wealthy entrepreneurs, who saw the cracks in the edifice through which theyi could worm themselves into a fortune at public expense. These cracks go far beyond the examples you gave. Think of suburban developments that have wrecked the environment at public expense; think of the rip-off of higher education in the 1980s, when the cost of subsidizing students was transferred from the public and the parents to the children (who have had to go into debt). Think of the rape of the land.
The libertarian response to all this is that markets are imperfect, and if we only made them more perfect the greed of one would control the greed of the other. Not too bloody likely.
This has been aided and abetted by the new historiography that replaced the old standard history by Charles and Mary Beard sometime around 1960. For those too young to remember, most college American history courses still used the book as the standard text. The Beards organized the history around the tension between the rich, who took advantage of government to aggrandize themselves, and the public, who were the agrandizees in the story. There were some technical flaws in the analysis, but no so great as to invalidate the overall narrative. The stuff was simply swept under the rug.
Has Satan purchased ice skates?
I’m hoping that there’s something else that no one is talking about, which would explain the disconnect between the automakers’ bailout V. the larger money market bailout … couldn’t be another example of Congress’s
incompetence … nah !
She shoulda asked him, while on his show … *g*
Dodd says he thinks any auto industry bridge loan should include regulation of financial industry.
Also blasting treasury department for not helping homeowners, and spending money in “ad hoc, arbitrary manner,” “careening from pillar to post,” without adequate controls or adequate transparency. Does not believe administration should have access to the rest of the TARP funds without a coherent plan.
Dodd is actually addressing that now.
if this is old news to folks here, my apologies… yesterday union leaders met and agreed to a bunch of concessions, including:
Shelby envidiously comparing foreign automakers to domestic, with no mention of how his own state subsidizes them.
Shelby’s craven bias is matched only by the M$M’s deliberate sin of omission of Shelby’s craven bias.
Good on ya, Jane, for your articulate voice reaching beyond the blogosphere.
Good for you Jane. You have a much stronger stomach than I do. I can’t stand to watch the smarmy Cavutto let alone speak to him. Looking forward to the video, though.
Jane, it’s good to know that you are getting more exposure on the M$M. Your’e on the front lines in the war on corporate media ignorance and spin.
ding, ding, ding. Thank you for printing the UAW’s comments about Alabama’s state subsidies for foreign car manufacturers.
Will those concessions be enough or will only total destruction of the UAW do? /s
*smacks forehead* … Eureka … change the name of UAW to Blackwater and Congress will fall all over themselves to throw Billion$ their way …
Shorter Shelby: since we’ll never have enough information to know the future, we should do nothing.
That will work only if the union head is replaced by a religious nutcase whose rich family makes large contributions to Rs. Otherwise, it’s a brilliant idea.
Fox Business News……pity nationwide only 6,000 people saw the show.
He’s the opposite of Don “We don’t know what we don’t know, therefore everything we do is right !” Rumsfeld, eh ?
Wow! so happy for you. you more than deserve such an opportunity. can not wait to see it
firedog bonus:
Moyers Interviews David Cay Johnson – transcript scroll down . . .
Here’s another relevant cliche: if you don’t know where you’re going, any road will take you there.
Jane, as a recently retired 54 year old, 34 year veteran of the auto industry, I want to thank you for your continuing effort to speak the truth for the auto worker. I’ve stopped watching all the msm coverage of this because my blood pressure soars and there is no doubt in my mind that this is an agenda to kill organized labor. I’ve not yet (and since I’m no longer watching – won’t) see anyone speak to the history as to why sub funds and job banks came to be. The only theme is that this is a failed industry – yet their symptoms are now shared by industries not only here but across the globe.
It’s a lonely feeling when the vast majority of Americans are of the opinion that union labor is a bad thing. It even overshadows the elation of finally having a democrat President. Needless to say, I’m very disillusioned. So again, THANK YOU!
I haven’t been following this closely over the past week, preoccupied with something closer to my Heart … is it likely that the Dems are P.Oed that the other bailout was used to protect the suits and not the workers, thus the contention now for a much smaller bailout ?
I thought they had fast tracked this bailout ahead of the $700 Billion one.
Insightful with a passion to incite..qualifications for bigger things.
Or, in the words of Fire Sign Theatre: If You Lived Here, You’d Be Home By Now.
That should be the slogan in front of the Bush Library.
Did you see the mayor of Lansing, Benero, on WJ this morning? He’s a strong defender of the unions & their contribution to bringing U.S. workers up to middleclassdom. A few comments were scattered about the earlier thread. Here’s one of mine.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/12…..nt-1747477
Thank you!
It is very hard to watch.
I got twisted around with which bailouts you were talking about when. So instead of guessing, could you claify your comment & I’ll respond.
Geez, to listen to the senators’ questions, you’d think they were strong guardians of the taxpayers funds and interests.
Great analogy about subsidies. I never would have thought of comparing the automakers and WalMart. Brilliant! Just out of curiousity, I scoped out on my search engine,WalMart subsidies. Yikes! Over $1 Billion in subsidies? WTF?Here’s a couple of links.Just unbelievable. Report says Wal-Mart received $1B in government subsidies. – May …May 24, 2004 … Over $1 billion in government subsidies have gone into transforming discounter Wal-Mart Stores from a regional discount store operator into …
money.cnn.com/2004/05/24/news/fortune500/walmart_subsidies/ – 35k – Cached – Similar pages
Wal-Mart Subsidy Watch – brought to you by Good Jobs FirstWal-Mart Subsidy Report for Vermont. Subsidies received by Wal-Mart. Good Jobs First found no instances of economic development subsidies in this state, …
walmartsubsidywatch.com/state_detail.html?state=VT&print=1 – 20k – Cached – Similar pages
I thought that Congress had fast tracked a $25 Billion auto bailout ahead of the $700 Billion that Paulson got.
and we won’t discuss the fact that they pay people so badly and until recently had no health benefits(though what they have right now is probalby not much good) that we’ve been subsidizing those jobs with Medicaid and Food Stamps, etc. anyway.
Senator Crapo ? Really ?!!
Bennett wants bank bondholders to swap bonds for equity.
GM analyst suggested same thing:
http://firedoglake.com/2008/11…..ysts-view/
“Secondly, he said that “bondholders have to agree to trade in their bonds for equity in order to remove the interest payments on the bonds and improve the industry’s balance sheet.”
While this would improve the cash flow situation, I’m not sure by how much — unless it’s combined with some sort of default on other debts. GM is currently hemorrhaging $2 billion a month, not sure how much of that is interest payment on bonds.
Not to my knowledge. Think the auto bridge loan is still very much in doubt. That’s the reason for today’s hearings.
And Paulson has had a relapse, as Josh put it, and is going back the the $700 billion trough for another dip.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/…..lD2EJR0B2k
Since it is likely that the TV will still be the main source of info in the years to come, why not invest in MSMBC (the most liberal of the MSM) as a major stock holder, and move the news much more to the “truth” side of the equation. If we raised 500M for elections, maybe through nickels and dimes we can raise enough for something like this. The people only need to see the full facts, and it’s likely they would support much of what us “liberals” want (use “Shock and Awe” to our advantage for a change).
Food for thought. AB
Interesting idea. My first thought is (it’s my nature to look for impediments, so don’t take this as a personal affront) that GE would never sell MSNBC to a buncha DFHs.
Schumey up ! Is that Preet Bharara behind him ? … seems to have aged 10 years over the summer …
Who dat?
Schumey’s Chief Counsel.
Thanks. I googled him & he looks like an intersting character.
Congress had passed a $25 B deal to be used for development and retooling as I remember it. Not for cash flow problems.
I’ve wondered why at least MSNBC nighttime hasn’t made an issue regarding why the shithead senator from Alabama would suddenly have such a crusading interest in slitting the throats of U.S. auto makers and the state of Michigan.
We have mutual friends … I tried to contact him during the AGAG hearings, to check out Marcy’s timelines but he did not respond.
Righto. And part of the issue is whether that extant pool can be diverted to meet auto ind short run cash flow needs. But they don’t seem to be talking about that anymore. Not to say that it won’t come up again.
What I understood Dodd to be saying in his opening remarks was no more money for Treasury until they come up with plans, strategy and oversight.
Does anyone have a list of Dems not on board for supporting the auto industry? Perhaps we can apply pressure somehow. It just seems ludicrous that we are even having this debate. I have to admit, I’ve removed myself from watching the msm on this, so I’m a bit behind. Where does Obama stand?
Aha. Didn’t seem to have influenced Senator Mukasey in the appropriate direction in that instance, tough.
So it is the senators of southern states where they have their foreign automakers safely providing jobs in their states…… pushing for bankruptcy of American companies…..
When these idiots talk about free trade the word they never use is FAIR …. if this was apples and apples comparison then ok but it isn’t…… it continues to be the Repug MO to do anything to destroy any and all unions…..
And do you think that Paulson will pay any attention to what Dodd sez? Bwahahahahaha.
Thanks, I thought as much. I wonder if this was improperly used, and thus the reluctance of Congress
for additional $$$ …
Additionally, could this be a sign of the fire that Paulson will be required to dance through, for any
additional bailout$ ?
… which made me feel it was a done deal before the confirmation hearings …
Well, Duh !
If he wants to go back to congress for more of the $700 B shouldn’t he?
I don’t think the original 25B has been used.
IMO, that should be a nonstarter. He’s so incompetent, why even bother with hearings. Besides he said he wasn’t gonna use the other half. But the fix is in, he’ll appear, blather and congress will rubber stamp.
Did you see Mukasey’s latest? No prosecutions should be done be for W’s lawyers cause everything they did was to keep us safe. (Obama’s BFF Cass Sunstein agrees.)
http://www.reuters.com/article…..liticsNews
Get em Sen. Testor
Scuse me Sen. Tester
Motive absolves the crime ? WOW … thank goodness IANAL, I’d get Vertigo from that opinion …
The next panel is supposed to be Moodys et al. These are the same GD #$@&! that gave all of the high ratings to the crap that was being sold. Why the F**k is any one giving them any credibility on anything
a relative who was a corporate accountant who did forecasting and budgeting-and did the books when they bought another company, etc. stuff like that, said that they don’t need a bailout, that a pre-bancruptcy structure would do what they need. that a bailout isn’t going to do what they need and will cost more for both the companies and the government. and because it will cost more for both that it won’t work. then shook his head.
Umm, those “shitheads” in Alabama,with the talents of Rove and Abramoff, are also the ones that helped railroad Alabama Governor Don Segilman.The auotoplants are the money makers there. Casino gambling is the money maker next door in Haley Barbour’s state of Missisippi.BTW,Barbour and Abramoff were lobby partners many years ago. There’s a website called Alabama Corruption News. I’ll try to post a link.
U.S. Politics News – U.S. Politics Today – News Media MonitoringDec 2, 2008 … US Politics Today. Stories you won’t find elsewhere. A non-partisan news service for political professionals. Comprehensive coverage of US …
uspolitics.einnews.com/ – 94k – Cached – Similar pages
__________________________________________________There you go,Crosstimbers. BTW, I’m NOT a political professional,not even a political amateur.But it’s a great site,anyhow.
At the risk of repeating what someone else has already said here: this is valuable information about a
“subsidy” angle I’d never heard of before (and I live in Michigan). Thank you, Jane, thank you.
I lived in one city where the city’s condition for approving a W*lM*rt distribution center was also getting a store. (I think this was in addition to subsidies to get the distribution center, but I wasn’t there at the time.) Several businesses disappeared afterward, probably but not entirely due to the W*lM*rt store, including the KM*rt that was its main competitor. (The JCPenney in the same shopping center is now an JCPenney outlet store. They couldn’t compete, either.) They’re talking now about how good the city is to retire to – that means the major local industry is retirement/nrusing homes, and I don’t think that’s going to be enough to keep the place going in terms of economic diversity: everything will be depending on medical jobs or prison jobs (yes, they got one of those too) or farming.
Truly Left is truly right (I mean correct). Every msm outlet is parroting the same propaganda about the problem being the labor unions. Whatever problems are in the auto industry, management is the problem, not the workers.
A big debt of thanks to Jane for noting the HUGE state subsidies in states with “right to work” laws. As a resident of the Northeast, I saw several local communities try to woo foreign automakers, who turned around and built factories in the South because of those multi-million-dollar incentives and no unions. Yet we can’t help the domestic automakers who employ workers in unions that protect the worker. The GOP definitely wants to kill unions, in my opinion. We would then return to the days of the robber barons (as if we aren’t there already). No thanks.
Second your emotion, Knut. I’m a big Charles and Mary beard fan since I picked up and read a 1940 wo volume work by them called “America at Midpassage.” It’s worthwhile as a “historic book” as well as a history but because their analysis is so timeless, you can see the outlines of the issues as they were developing at that time. Their chapters on foreign policy and the development of American foreign policy is especially worthwhile if you want to get a good historical perspective on U.S. colonialism and the domestic forces which have driven that since about 1890.
I’d like to comment on Gettelfinger’s comments which Jane quotes too. In Minnesota, we have a state program called “tax increment financing” which allows local government to grant tax incentives to business. It does not allow outright grants which must be approved by the state legislature but from some research on these local incentives I did a few years ago, I learned that the basis for them exists back in the U.S. Tax Code. Which stands to reason, since “income” is so broadly defined as to include nearly any form of receipt or forbearance, i.e. forgiveness of a debt.
While we like to think of our domestic economy as resembling the free market of Adam Smith, the reality is that it is closer to the French mercantilist economy of Louis XIV and Colbert through our byzantine tax system. This will probably never change but at least Congress should look at how incentives and favors to certain industries encouraged by our national tax code has cost jobs and made the US uncompetitive.
As a former Union Member (no longer working, no pension with my union) I keep asking myself one question: Why are they taking away from the retirees who put in their time with the companies? Reducing/cutting-back/passing off the people who put many years-some in the 40+ year range? They deserve the benefits with the only change being the company paying for the Medicare subsidy for them if they are 65+.
On the other hand, they do deserve their pensions, but once retired, should not get a “bonus” since, in my mind, a “bonus” is for producing results-speedy work, good performance, etc. If you are retired and a pensioner, what are you DOING to earn that bonus?
JMHO from a newbie :)
Mahalo for reading this!
Welcome!
Come back again, please!
Hi, my question to you is: I know where I am going-to ask for my share of the bailout! Our home in Las Vegas went from $332K in October 2006, to $190K in October 2008 when we sold it. How do I get my share of the $700B for the depreciation directly related to the mortgage crises. Can you tell me how to get there from here? Seriously asking this question. We had a HELOC of $75K on the home, that was it, no mortgage on it. Who do I ask for MY share of that $700B? Shouldn’t all homeowners who sold a home be entitled to the depreciation of this home?
Now, we are in a home with a 7.5% 5 year ARM and CC companies reducing our borrowing power, which in turn lowers our credit score, and therefore, unable to refinance for a lower rate fixed mortgage (balance to credit limit too high once cc company lowers your limit).
If this is the wrong forum to address this, even though I refer to the quote by the poster, then feel free to move to the proper area.
Mahalo!