No wonder ‘we’ were in such a big dammed hurry to hang Saddam for gassing the Kurds. So he couldn’t really tell the world about this an all the other ‘cooperation’ the US has been involved in during Saddam’s reign.

Yup. Hanged him for gassing 238 Kurds 30 years ago.

And what exactly is the Iraqi death toll from our illegal invasion?

In case we were wondering what to focus on between now and when Congress convenes.

Plenty of evil in the world.

Thanks, Ian. Looks like you might have left a word out of the last sentence. Possibly “off.”

The U.S. has never really had a problem with dictators, as long as their OUR dictators… That typically means they buy U.S. arms and other commodities, agree to fight our proxy wars, etc..

BINGO!!!!

Everything bad and horrible that has happened since 1980 we can pretty much blame republicans for and the republicans I’m talking about are associated with Reagan and the Bush family. That’s how I see it. And you’re right about killing Saddam to silence him. George Bush’s Regime did the same thing recently with the ‘anthrax guy’. Yep, he was going to tell the truth and they had to suicide him.

Any guesses on how long we will keep getting this bad news? Maybe endless?

Makes you wonder how many nukes George Bush’s Regime sold to Iran over the course of the last few years? Wouldn’t surprise me in the least and I’m sure they said to the Iranians, “Use them against us in the next presidency” and then cut more deals.

Which is why I support letting go all the Bush apartchniks who committed war crimes this time around. So they can do it again, next administration!

Uh-oh, Ian’s getting snarky, a strong indicator of how upset such a normally levelheaded person has become…

Selling arms to both sides of any conflict is a republican virtue.

You may digg this post right here.

Don’t forget that Saddam had his troops massed on the Kuwait border for weeks. When his patron-in-chief, George H. W. Bush couldn’t be bothered to disapprove, it was taken as a green light and an invasion was born.

How could the next GOP administration possibly staff up if Obama prosecutes the war crimes committed by Bush Two? That’s not change we can believe in.

We might not have been arming both sides in Vietnam but there has been plenty of war-mongering by both parties.

This is a dangerous meme you are asserting imo, Kay. We would not be here if it wasn’t for both major parties. Yes, there are many more bloody Republicans who deserve to see war crimes trials. But Clintons sanctions killed a million Iraqi’s. Add the fact he never complete withdrew.. Add all the let bygones be bygones (From Nixon forward) only serve to insure we both repeat ourselves and accelerate our MIC lunacy.

woops, fixed, thanks.

It took W a couple of years to outdo what it took Saddam Hussein 30 years to do to the Iraqis.

“Oil remains fundamentally a government business.”

Yes, I mean we can only hope that people like Libby, Rove, DeLay, Goodling and Bolton come back in another administration to push on!

I don’t disagree that fomenting conflict has been a bipartisan failing.

Speaking of Republican warmongers, though, I have a foggy recollection of reading early in Bush The Younger’s first term that Rumsfeld was the wealthiest member of the cabal and that much of his fortune had resulted from investments in defense related industries. If true, it seems like there might have been a conflict of interest which should have prevented his appointment as Def Sec.

I noticed Bill Kristol payed up his server dues and the PNAC web sight is back online.

The killing of Iraqis started with Saddam Hussein. Let’s not forget it was Bush Sr. who told the Iraqis to rise up against Saddam and then he turned his back on them when they did. The sanctions under Clinton were horrific for sure, but look what George Bush has allowed? My whole point is Reagan/Bush Sr. looooooooooooooooooooooooooooved Saddam Hussein in the 1980’s while at the same time was doing business with the Iranians. We were arming both sides and should have just stayed out of it. As far as I’m concerned, Bush Sr. never should have gone into Iraq because that started the stampede to the bottom.

Hanging Saddam hasn’t solved any problems. Just created more.

And yes, there are Democrats who have blood on their hands. Yes indeedy.

Yes, and particularly if Goodling comes back. They’ll hire all the Rethugs the first time around, no messing with those messy firings mid-term and all that…

Fellow PNAC conspirator William Kristol still manages to pitch new ideas for future foreign policy disasters on a regular basis.

Conflict of interest? You’re kidding right?

How about this one: Cheney was receiving payments from Halliburton every single month from the day he took office until now. His holdings in stock in that company increased 2300% while he was in office.

Oh, but that’s okay because the checks and stock were just residuals from ‘before’.

Looks like I owe you a Coke.

here’s how

Plenty of wealthy public servants, including Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and former Secretary of State Colin Powell, have taken advantage of the tax break since it was introduced in 1989 under the administration of President George H.W. Bush. Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove has obtained a certificate of divestiture for stock sales in 23 companies since he joined the administration.

No harm, no foul! Just ask Lieberman.

His holdings in stock in that company increased 2300% while he was in office.

Cost of living adjustment in the wages of sin.

Ian, we REALLY have to let it known about this, who the players were and we REALLY have to get everyone on board;

these players are criminals if they are going to skate again they WILL do this again, of this again

Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the entire bush family

we have to make the name “bush” even more reviled then the name Benedict Arnold

Thanks for the info. Of course, I’m certain they also severed contacts with all their friends in related fields…

They undoubtedly will pick up where they left off after leaving office with a hefty bonus for services rendered.

Whew!

Bill Kristol felt it was time to bring back the PNAC under an Obama Adminstration:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/10/pnac-20/

Funny how he acts as if the other PNAC from the 1990’s that was pressuring Bill Clinton for all out war with Iraq was all but forgotten about! Spit.

Yup

In a clumsy effort to sabotage Iran’s nuclear program, the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran some top-secret bomb designs laced with a hidden flaw that U.S. officials hoped would doom any weapon made from them, according to a new book about the U.S. intelligence agency.

But the Iranians were tipped to the scheme by the Russian defector hired by the CIA to deliver the plans and may have gleaned scientific information useful for designing a bomb, writes New York Times reporter James Risen in “State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration.”

The clandestine CIA effort was just one of many alleged intelligence failures during the Bush administration, according to the book.

http://articles.latimes.com/20...../fg-intel4

Here’s an interesting read about Hussein/Iraq/United States:

http://www.truthaboutwar.org/1brutal.shtml

man, I WISH americans had the BALLS to seize the assets he acquired because of this REDICULOUS war

did you know these maggots are actually blaming “bad intelligence” for Iraq?

crooks and liars has an EXCELLANT post with all the intelligence warnings bush recieved that there were NO wmds and that the adminsitration KNEW there were no wmds

man, this guy does not understand;

HEY, MORON, there is a fuhrigging record and we KNOW you are lying through your rubber jawed gums

Gonzo got a call from the prosecutor on the USA firings.

According to Angler, all that stock (not sure about the payments but I think they’re included) is in a trust with the benefits going to some charity. The author of Angler sez that Cheney didn’t benefit a penney from Halliburton after he took office.

This is from memory, so don’t hold me to the details.

and here’s a youtube with saddam and rumsfeld being all pals and everything

Thanks Perris. Watching that video made me think of Super 8 videos of my childhood (meaning, no sound and lots of people smiling at each other! LOL!).

Oh the tangled web we weave.

The nerve of Saddam being mad that we were not following our own laws.

I had a thought the other day. Since drug violence is on the rise (something I saw on MSNBC I think? Not sure.) and seeing how drug money is used to finance terrorism, and Black Ops people to do things they should not be doing like using the drug money to send weapons to our enemies…that maybe we should just go ahead and leagalize the drugs and save the money on incarcerating people for years, save money on planes and cops, save money on court costs, oh and save money having to have investigations into the illegal drug sales and terrorism that results.

Oh and have programs to get people off drugs who want to get off the drugs.

Just a thought brought on by the lunacy of putting people in jail for having a disease.

MMMMmmmm HHHMMMmmm. Riiiiight. A trust. Yep. A trust with a big revocation clause that ends on January 20, 2009 at approximately 12:01 pm. “Proceeds” go to charity. Yep. Any interest earned on the ’stocks and payments’. NOT the stocks and payments. At the end of the trust - he gets it all.

Yep. A trust. And they don’t even claim it is a ‘blind’ trust. That’s kind of hard to do since all the income of the trust is from a single source. And the income into the trust stays in the trust. And Cheney still owns the trust. Yep.

That’s not a conflict of interest when the source of all those funds has his friend Reumy give that source the hugest no-bid contracts in history. And renews them and adds to them - even after that wonderful company is found to have ‘lost’ $9 billion, and fed spoiled food to our troops, and one of their subs has electrocuted about 20 soldiers in their showers.

I better stop cuz this could go on all night.

Anyway. Yep, you betcha’. No conflict there. Move along.

Oh yeah. But the ‘war on drugs’ doesn’t have any conflicts of interest either. Like the fact that every local law enforcement agency in the country has asset seizures as a major part of their budgets - and that is how local law enforcement agencies all now have these totally militarized forces - complete with all the latest high-tech weapons and other big-boy military toys. Including in one case, an Abrams tank they call the “Peacemaker”. I kid you not.

So you would have to convince all these people, and all their constitutents that taking away their ‘toy money’ will be better for them too. Kinda hard sell methinks.

I have been arguing for legalizing and taxing all the drugs since the mid 1980s. For all the good it has done. Pffft.

Check out Chez Cheney

Don’t know if the flight restrictions are still in effect but pilots weren’t too happy about the no fly zone over the Cheney Palace

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/n.....letter.pdf

Any guesses on how long we will keep getting this bad news? Maybe endless?

John Ellis “JEB” Bush for Senator of Florida!

They just won’t go away. Kinda reminds me of the alien in Alien!

Selling arms to both sides of any conflict is a republican virtue.

But never forget St. Ronnie Raygun defeated the Commies!
Busy guys in the ’80s.

Yes, I mean we can only hope that people like Libby, Rove, DeLay, Goodling and Bolton come back in another administration to push on!

Bush III: Return of the Repubtards
Coming to a theater of war near you in 2012!

What this thread needs is a video of “Ollie’s Doowop”by Rubén Blades. Anybody got one?

That place looks like a bunker. Concrete block walls on the faces. Look at the size of those roof trusses! Is he expecting something to fall on the roof? Something really really large and heavy? Amazing!

Looks like he’s trying to copy the neighbor’s house - on a lot that is half the size. Ha Ha!

You might recall that shipping those arms to Iran was against the law. And that most of the law-breakers skated on it. Then a lot of them came back in Bush II and were behind the Iraq War.

But it’s OK to do this, if you’re a Republican. Hell, Dick Cheney’s Halliburton used and I believe still uses shell companies to do business in both Iraq and Iran, despite an Executive Order from Bill Clinton in the 1990s forbidding that sort of thing.

But let Bill Clinton pardon a guy for doing this in the 1970s, and the pearl-clutching reaches epic proportions.

The reason Bush senior went into Panama to get Noriega and have him “renditioned” to the US for drug trafficking was so Noriega wouldn’t blow the whistle Bush’s involvement in the smuggling. When Bush was VP and was in charge of the Southeast Drug Interdiction Task Force the amount of cocaine that entered the US INCREASED by more than 600%.

Bush the idiot son goes into Afghanistan and the amount of opium produced increases by magnitudes of difference, not just by thousands of tonnes.

And finally, the news tonight is using a teaser line that Hillary’s appointment as Secretary of State is unconstitutional because of the emoluments clause. Unfuckingconstitutional just rolls off their tongues now when it comes to an Obama move but not one fucling word about the abomination that is the Bush presidency.

Getting here late and judging from many comments above most of the dots have been connected. Just would point out Americans are not the innocents in either post WW2 Iraq or Iran history.It is fair to suggest where the British Empire left off the American Empire picked up. Western powers meddling in Iran. American CIA playing puppetmaster in both Iraq and Iran.

What unfolded after the Shah was given the boot by Iranians in Iran could not be turned back by WashingtonDC. That really pissed off WashingtonDC.

Still does.

As for Saddam the Americans surely played him both ways as it suited WashingtonDC. During the 1980’s Saddam was condoned by WashingtonDC.

Along came Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait which considering what Iraq and Iran had been doing to each other was hardly strange neighborhood behavior but invading Kuwait was not on the Americans ‘to do’ list.

Saddam found out what happens then.

Saddam is dead now. Fair to say executed(no fingerprints style)by the Americans. As suggested by others above the Americans had reason to silence Saddam. He is quiet now.

Dead quiet.

Americans want to parade around West Asia as the international moral police and agents of the do right.

A truth/fact based history suggests this is more of the Big Lie tell.

The death toll is estimated at one million. Sadaam got everything he needed from the US. Twice, a Bush president lied and went into Iraq using wmd as the excuse. Sadaam was a good guy when he was fighting Iran for 8 years.

Israel bombed Sadaam’s weapons factory before Gulf War 1. Bush Sr. told Sadaam that if he invaded Kuwait, the US would not get involved. The Thatcher Library provided the Israel bombing info and Bush 1’s Library provided the actual conversations between Bush and Sadaam. You will have to trust that I read this because I would need a week of reading to find the info to provide a link. It is odd, but some presidential records are kept at Thatcher’s Library.

It was on their to do list. They just weren’t going to do it themselves when they could sucker Sadaam into invading.

No morality and no doing right. Have you read PNAC? If not, you will find out the true motive of the US there. If you haven’t learned enough of the evil of the US, then read Rebuilding America’s Defenses.(both on Wiki)

All part of the CIA drug profits. NATO will not touch the poppy crops. It is a family tradition to profit from drugs..that is where Poppy Bush got his nick name from.

You can attribute the foolishness to capitalism. The war on drugs provides so many jobs, what’s a little injustice amongst friends? Why should it matter to anyone that someone chooses to spend his or her days in drug induced euphoria? They say addicts become criminals to support their habit. If we didn’t do everything in our power to make their habit expensive, they wouldn’t have to break and enter.