More liberal than Kucinich? More liberal than Bernie Sanders? More liberal than Edwards? More liberal than Feingold?

The media didn’t “convince themselves” Obama was a liberal, the media created and transmitted the “Obama is a liberal” propaganda because the media is simply a corporate propaganda tool. The job of the media is not to reveal truth, but to transmit lies.

Anyone who says otherwise is selling something.

Obama is a liberal. Hahahahaha. Uhmmmm, yeah.

The media didn’t “convince themselves” Obama was a liberal, the media created and transmitted the “Obama is a liberal” propaganda because the media is simply a corporate propaganda tool

took the words right out of my mouth youn did

Obama isn’t half the lib I am. Assholes love their manufactured realities.
Pinkerton is not a very secure person…

I didn’t have a problem with that. I didn’t even mind when the McCain campaign started calling Obama a socialist after realizing that “liberal” isn’t the perjorative label it once was.

I embrace it. The so-called socialist beat the Republican by six points. They want to block universal health care? Point out the socialist candidate won by six points. Why, he’s even more liberal than Bernie Sanders, and Americans chose him to lead!

I’m much more annoyed by the post-election chatter about how Obama’s really a moderate, and how his election proves we’re a center-right nation.

Jane, I wanted to hear your slapdown of Pinkerton’s surreal quip about injecting some reality into the comversation.

I didn’t have a problem with that. I didn’t even mind when the McCain campaign started calling Obama a socialist after realizing that “liberal” isn’t the perjorative label it once was.

funny thing that word “socialist”

the very concept of money is socialism, the concept of ownership, courts and laws, these are all social projects.

very funny word that “socialism” is, it seems without socialism there could not possibly be government at all

in fact, if there were only two people on the planet, husband and wife, they would have to be socialists to co-exist

Pup! Digg is open! Come Digg this great Blogfest with Jane!

I think there was also a subtle form of racism at work. The media didn’t question the idea because all 40 million African Americans are liberal, right? Just ask Clarence Thomas.

Gee, maybe Obama can Sister Souljah himself over his supposed liberalism. That would show him!

Lest we forget, the “11th Commandment”: M$M doth not speak ill of their fellow center right/Rethuglicans.

Um but, In These Times (as you probably know a democratic left monthly, formerly a newspaper…where Ana Marie Cox, formerly here got her start) way b4 Obama launched his campaign said he was “progressive.” Most of the friends I have in Democratic Socialists of America, given Obama had spoken at panels organized by Chicago DSA saw him a good left-leaning politico.

MSM had to smear obama as something so why not liberal. They really have no interest in the truth. It is fact that obama is not a liberal. It is a fact that he is a corporate politician, bought for a lot of money but still bought and now owned by corporate america. For those looking for “change” from the obama administration please check the drapes in the WH as that is the only bloody thing that will change. The Business As Usual banners are flying high over K street and J street and every other street that deals in bribes and payoffs. I did not want to vote for obama but did in the end as I could not resist the opportunity to vote for a black candidate in the United Racist States but thinking he is going to bring change to corporate governance is pissing into the wind.

I don’t agree that we can let them call us socialists, communists, or marxists. Those terms have very negative connotations among the “independents” (or “Moron Americans” as the Horse used to call them).

Saying people have to be socialists to co-exist is silly. That term has a very specific meaning and we can’t let the Pukes frame the debate in those terms. We have to call them on it.

I’m quite amused with the ongoing push within some of the liberal blogosphere to paint Obama as very “left of center” liberal. Just can’t see it- time will tell.

Obama isn’t half the lib I am. Assholes love their manufactured realities.

That’s it in a nutshell. Republicans throw out a talking point. The media pick it up, repeat it endlessly, and within 24 hours it has become a rock solid truth that they will repeat with no evidence whatsoever years from now.

You make a good point.

My problem with calling Obama a liberal when he is not is the subtext. Liberal is being used to de-legitimize some pretty mainstream, sane policy positions. And, it also says that my philosophy is not legitimate.

I am remotely and remotely under the influence of Rev Wright…whitey must die!

James “New Paradigm” Pinkerton is badly in need of a new paradigm.

Does anybody in the MSM remember that Clinton was to Obama’s left on healthcare?
That Edwards was to Obama’s left on social justice?
That Dodd was to Obama’s left on the 4th amendment?

The media is doing exactly what the McCain campaign did, throw everything in the book and see if anything sticks.
So far they have the same record.

Ahem, he positioned himself as a bit to the left of liberal here. Neither being a liberal or a progressive or a democratic socialist/social democrat is a bad thing, at all, btw. What is calling a liberal a liberal a “smear.”? Jeesh.
IV. Intellectuals in Times of Crisis
Experiences and applications of intellectual work in urgent situations.

William Ayers, UIC, College of Education; author of Fugitive Days
Douglass Cassel, Northwestern University, Center for International Human Rights
Cathy Cohen, University of Chicago, Political Science
Salim Muwakkil, Chicago Tribune; In These Times
Barack Obama, Illinois State Senator
Barbara Ransby, UIC, African-American Studies (moderator)

The Center for Public Intellectuals
University of Illinois-Chicago (UIC):
http://www.uic.edu/classes/las…..ncealt.htm

Now that David Gregory will be heading Meet The Press, his keen and incisive intellect will shine forth like a beacon, inspiring his colleagues to ask the tough questions and demand that government officials answer truthfully. /s

OOOooof. My side hurts from laughing.

The military boards and the far right magazines fully embraced and took for reveled truth that Obama is a socialist. They modified their worldview enough to encapsulate that Obama, in addition to repealing the 2nd amendment, cutting back the military to post WWII levels and changing the USA to the United Muslim States of America we now have the “fact” that Obama is a “socialist”. The only problem with that is that 99% of those who post/write about Obama being a socialist have no idea what the world means. Authoritarianism rules!

C’mon, I’m eating lunch here. Well, I was. Had to clean the screen and key board to get this comment out.

Jane is mad funny in this clip, cutting down McCain and the Pinkerton fellar. I can’t believe Pinkerton(?) makes assertions based on ratings and what some conservative journalist said, rather than Obama’s actual quotes and votes in the Senate. He totally fails research 101. Jane just mowed him down, and with style too.

OT, but I don’t know where else to ask — anybody having trouble with the toobz today? Lots of things don’t seem to work right. Skype gets scrambled. Apple is sluggish. So is FDL.

Again, I don’t think Obama ever claimed he was a liberal, and I never thought of him as one. My personal barometer actually has Clinton slightly to the left of him in many respect. But then again, are the younger, more-energized voters who support him really liberals? I don’t think so. People want change, but it’s not clearly defined yet what that change entails. What we do know is that its (a) post-partisan (whatever that means), (b) anti-corruption/anti-old boys network (if Obama betrays this, he’ll be in trouble), (c) multi-cultural and mult-racial, (d) neo-liberal (pro free trade, pro-’strong America’), (e) in favor of stronger personal freedoms while still supporting a greater role for the center, in issues like healthcare, education, industrial policy (!), national service, etc. These aren’t liberal values, in the 1960s and 1970s sense, but they are what Obama is likely all about.

I’m sorry but where are the snark marks?

Correction: Sorry just saw them.

That’s how zombie lies are spawned.

Bullshit!
A little O/T but you all might like to check out this calculator as it counts our $$$ being wasted in Iraq: http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

Doesn’t the “/s” denote snark? I confess, I’m not completely up to speed on that sort of thing.

Hey Hugh,

An honor to be called a nut by you. ;-))

Reboot!

I’m sorry but where are the snark marks?

Are those like laugh lines?

There was study done during the primaries that warned usthis would happen. There was a disconnect between the perception of Obama’s positions, & his actual positions. It wasn’t only for Obama. All the dems were percieved as more liberal that they really are. Hell, there was only one true liberal running – Kucinich. All the rest were centrists (Obama), or republican-lite (Clinton).

The GOP needs to believe that Obama is too Left. They need to believe that their message works.
They can not reconcile the facts that Obama won. The election had high turnout which means voters were paying attention to the issues.
The GOP has believe that African Americans voted for Obama just because he is black.
However African American voters did not vote black they paid attention to the issues. They originally supported Hilary in the Primaries because they liked her and thought she could win.
Obama had to do well in large white majority states to convince them. The GOP are having a pity party of lies its sad.

There are too few like Dennis but I’m glad we’ve got him. I experience cognitive dissonance thinking that he represents “center-right” Ohio. Then again, the phrase “center-right” is sufficient to cause cognitive dissonance.

so after the election and since he was flat out wrong, does pinkerton want to revisit his claims and predictions?

I think part of the issue here is that the GOP doesn’t really have a coherent message anymore, other than beyond neanderthal-appeal (war good! God good! taxes bad! change bad! old boys good!). They’ve ceded the centrists and the center-right (the ‘burbs) to us by default. Woe to us ;-P

It was a creepy surprise seeing Karl Rove on the Today show this morning.
Seeing him so “hale and hearty” reminds me that he should be wearing an orange jumpsuit and ankle bracelets. If there was a fairness doctrine, Joe Wilson or one of the fired USattorneys would also be guests on the same day.

The president-elect may have the humility to prefer an Obama presidency to the kingship of boy George and his regent, Big Dick. He may even prize competence over cronyism. But in pointing out the stagnant incomes of most Americans, except for the top one percenters, whose income has grown enormously under Bush, Bob Herbert asks the right question:

…For years the federal government catered increasingly to the interests of the wealthy and the powerful. This reached a destructive crescendo when the ideologues and incompetents of the Bush administration came to power….

[But] [w]ill this new Obama team, as brilliant as it appears to be, begin addressing on day one the interests of those who are not rich and who have not had the ear of those in power?…The crisis…is not [just] that wages are stagnant but that the jobs themselves are disappearing….

[T]he evidence is that the next administration will be competent and smart as hell. Now I’d like to know for whom they plan to deliver.

[emph. added]

Jane,

A fine post, from a sharp mind.

You’re right, I’m wrong. /s is correct.
I can’t stand David Gregory, so somehow I got hot under the collar and missed your snark marks.

They don’t have a message true but whats worse they think they do.

Maybe, but what part of the body do they appear on?

Lies are all the Republicans have. They made their bed, now they’re lying in it.

In fairness, the Dems play pretty fast and loose with the truth. Think of Harry Reid suggesting there would be consequences for Traitor Joe.

He made claims is he willing to bet on them?

re How The Media Convinced Themselves Obama Was A Liberal.

before the elections i don’t remember many progressive bloggers saying obama was not liberal. lots of blogs went batshit crazy about wright and ayers, but that’s was something different. some, as jane did in the excellent blogging heads clip, said obama wasn’t all that liberal, or very liberal, or that he was less liberal than senator clinton… but other than the book salon with with paul street, and occasional comments by ian (for which he caught hell), i just don’t remember much push back to the obama is liberal story. if all one did was listen to what obama said (vs actions taken), i think it was pretty easy to conclude that obama was liberal.

True the Senate is going to have low approval ratings for awhile because of stuff like that it makes Harry look weak.

Jane, thanks for showing him the door!

Actually, I don’t think many were that concerned about where he fell in the ideological spectrum, at least, not until the FISA vote.

Personally, I’ve cast a “lesser of evils” vote in every presidential election since 1980. While I like Obama better than the previous candidates I’ve voted for, I remain skeptical. For the sake of the country and the world however, I hope that he exceeds all of our (positive) expectations.

I really like my socialist fire department and my socialist police force and the socialist airport and the socialist state police…… that really makes the wingnuts head explode……

There were very few blogs that weren’t rabidly defending Obama’s “liberal credentials”. I thought FDL was pretty neutral. Commenters were a different story. Black Agenda Report was pretty vehement about Obama not being a progressive (I noticed some of their writers were pro-kucinich and pro-Edwards, even after the fact.)

Has this guy read this blog we get on Obama often for not being left enough. I don’t think this guy knows what the Left is really like people he trusts in his ingroup tell him stuff and accepts it as true no question.
Here you better have a link and if the people here don’t like your link they will only argue more with links of their own.

Conservatives have their own reality that has no bearing on the vast majority of people’s lives.

Well I think people have very vague ideas on what “left” is. Like if some one is black or gay, there’s a tendancy call that person “left.” Then there’s Palin who said something about “the far left of the democratic party.” (?!?) As far as I am concerned, the Democratic party doesn’t really have a “left.” Maybe some progressive-minded, but not “far left.”

Obama does not walk on water and he is above all practical. I see myself as further to the left than most, but I couldn’t get elected dog catcher and I’m white. On FDL it is assumed that 70% of the population is liberal and agrees with us. I’m not sure that’s true.

We are on the brink, if not over the brink, of a serious depression, far worse than the thirties. It is difficult to see us solving that problem without greatly taxing the wealthy, but that, ironically, satisfies no one. We live in a fantasyland where all of us can be wealthy (i.e. Joe the Plumber). We are not interested in the now because tomorrow holds so much promise. We cannot argue with Obama’s success and should stop trying. He’s got many different precincts to satisfy. I believe we will all be pleasantly surprised. Let’s at least let him serve a few months as president before we feel betrayed.

that’s why i’m not up for mocking anyone just because they thought (or think) obama is liberal. that’s not my view, but i can see why other people see it differently (and i’m still hoping to be wrong).

not even for a tad of revenge for those of us who got treated like screaming mimis?

Let’s at least let him serve a few months as president before we feel betrayed.

for me, betrayed was june’s lies about fisa.

not saying you shouldn’t wait for as long as make sense to you – but that is not where i am at.

well, i’m not interested in pretending it didn’t happen… and while i confess to being human – i don’t think the desire for revenge is something to cultivate.

Well Selise you’re not wrong about Obama not being liberal. The writing was all over the wall from the primary on (and *cough* I would say before), with some betrayed mentality (home owners should be more “responsible”, “absentee parents should be more responsible” yadda, yadda ) during the debates, plus the Austin Goulsbee affair, plus FISA and oh gosh I can’t go on, it’s just . . .*sigh*. At least he’s not demented “bomb Iran” McCain.

Okay that was a little too pious, Selise. Darlingk, I can’t believe you thought I was serious.

How far should we travel before we try to get out of the ditch and back on the roadway. Are we gaining people who can make a course correction before the road ends.

At least he’s not demented “bomb Iran” McCain.

amen to that.

although i don’t think the danger of bombing iran during an obama administration is zero. still, better than singing about it

Today in SanFrancisco a judge is considering the constitutionality of retro-active immunity. It may go down in the lower courts to be reinstated by the Supremes. True Obama said he would oppose retroactive immunity and that turned out to be untrue, but like it or not, his eventual position strengthened his campaign. No one said politics is tiddly winks.

It may be possible to make too much of this issue. It’s probable that rethugs define “liberal” as any Black man who happens to disagree with ‘em.

sorry. probably just thin skin from months of being called all manner of bad things, even by some folks here i thought were friendly or even friends. my apologies. (not the first time, and i’m sure not the last).

You don’t know that actually strengthened his campaign.

Sheesh Selise, I know how that can wear, but please know I and others think you rock.

i don’t give Rs a pass for shredding the constitution and their own promises in order to suck up to corporate power – and i don’t give Ds a pass for it either. obama promised, and based on that promise was able to get some additional support for the primary. when he won the primary he turned his back on that promise. that’s a betrayal in my book – and a serious one.

ymmv.

The further to the left that Obama’s positions are perceived to be the further to the right the center moves.

(((mui1))) right back at you. have missed your commenting and glad when you are here…

p.s. here’s hoping ecahn has another bbq this spring…

That’s a problem with representative democracy. Even after an election we don’t know where anyone stands. That’s my perception, but all any of us have is our perceptions. Obama facing right wing criticism threw his liberal position under the bus. When he saw how much money he was raising, he changed his position on a federally financed elections. I think Obama’s true feelings re FISA were revealed by his original opposition. You may be bothered that he did not choose death before dishonor and you may feel had by his reversal. He obviously saw reversal as the better strategy. He won. I’m not sure what that proves other than he wasn’t entirely wrong.

On FDL it is assumed that 70% of the population is liberal and agrees with us. I’m not sure that’s true.

Polling data from multiple polling firms has pretty consistantly shown that only about 15% of Americans (USA Americans, Canadians and S. American lean left) self-define as liberal. Far more want liberal/progressive/social democratic policies but 1) too many liberals and leftists went off their rockers in the late 60’s and 2) that led to previously consistantly liberal voting blocs (think of your rustbelt working class relatives if you have any) turning to the right w/Reagan and nixon. We still have much to do to repair the damage to liberalism , both self-inflicted afrom OUR SIDE and from the RW.

I hope so too. That was fun.

The left needs to very loudly define a far left position. This will define Obama as a centrist.

“Far left of the Democratic Party, ” is Progressive Democrats of America and its allies like Democratic Socialists of America, Democratic Socialists of America
The largest socialist organization in the United States, and principal US affiliate of the Socialist International. Works to build progressive movements …
http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

Yes but he was elected Senator before he was elected Pres. And he does have a record that shows he is “moderate”, or maybe just a politican. Personally, I had an eyebrow raised from Lamont/Lieberman times. Now I supported Obama after the primary, because I thought McCain was truly frightening, but I did it pretty much expecting Obama to be a run of the mill “moderate.”

Re: Paul Street of Z magazine…as a radical left monthly they take a principled stand vs. liberals and liberalism, just like the New Left of the 60’s.

This is a sample of the real far left (from a former leftist w/ a moniker of Zombietime, lives in san francisco), http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/

I agree with most of the sentiments but disagree with the in your face presentation.

That’s not exactly within the offical democratic party though is it? I am not saying there aren’t lefties. I am saying it’s ill defined and the Democratic party, although it has some progressive members, does not an all powerful (booga, booga) left in power.

I think “in your face” depends on locality, maybe? perhaps?

The GOP/Media Complex is ever engaged in trying to shift rightwards the bounds of what is politically acceptable.

That’s why Molly Ivins and Paul Krugman couldn’t get hired at the NYT if they were starting out their careers now. Yet the Times has infinite amounts of room for brainless conservative hacks like Kristol.

I’m well to the left of Obama, and have no illusions to the contrary (though I’m hopeful that his inherent pragmatism will pretty much force him in a progressive direction, because the alternatives don’t work).

But I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing that the media tagged Obama as the “most liberal senator”, since he was elected anyway by a convincing margin. Think of that: the public elected him even though they think that he’s more liberal than he actually is! That means that any move to the right on his part will disappoint the public. That means the public chose to move the country considerably to the left.

Exactly. The very reason most of the folks commenting are here is that this represents a certain set of voices that is by and large censored out of the corporate TradMed (or to use a term I like to kick around, the GOP/Media Complex) — or depicted mockingly, much of the time when it is depicted.

Ever notice that when FOX wants to really mock liberals or Democrats (as opposed to depicting them as wimps in the manner of Alan Colmes), they look for the most goofy ones they can find? They go straight for the ones that they expect will harm their own cause every time they open their mouths.

A-yep. People know who screwed them over, and it wasn’t liberals.

What is the “locality” of those pictures.

What? you tell me.

Anyway there are lot of people that think everything from PR pride day to gay pride day is “in your face.” What’s in our faces anyway? Kinda subjective. BTW I have no problem with any costumes/or non-costumes or floats seen in NYC for either pride day. But that’s me.

Jane your video on bloggingheads.tv with Mr Pinkerton was a joy to watch….thanks.

Yeah that’s finally what I started saying. “Great, America elected a liberal president. How do you feel about that?”

Still, it isn’t true.

I am reminded to tell Jane that her earlier post on “anyone who thought Obama was the second coming of Saul Alinsky was wrong” was essentially what I would have written. Not wish I had written, had essentially drafted in my head. If, going back to the primaries, you had read blogs as far apart on the adversarial spectrum as Open Left and Ezra, you knew. Even if you read barackobama.com, you knew that many of the policies therein were very cautious. This does not take away from Nate’s post that the policies were a mixture of progressive and center-left.

How the media convinced themselves Obama was a liberal:

a) Obama represents the triumph of a great liberal cause: one chapter of the civil rights movement.
b) Comparing any speech by Obama to any utterance by George Bush, Jr. is like night and day.
c) The Republicans have deliberately made a lot of space for “liberal” to be anyone who has a few left-of-center positions. Glenn was writing about this years ago.

(((selise))))

I hope you know I respect you. And EW respects you. That’s something.

I’m hopeful that his inherent pragmatism will pretty much force him in a progressive direction, because the alternatives don’t work

‘Zactly

Whether Obama is the ‘most liberal member of Congress’, or liberal at all, the terms ‘liberal’ and ‘conservative’ in our political lexicon refer to liberal and conservative capitalists. And our reigning economic theory, courtesy of Reagan-Greenspan-Clinton-Rubin-Summers-Bush, holds that the best capitalism features maximum privatization and de-regulation. (Although in practice, capitalism has always provided a socialist safety net for the rich — witness the Paulson-Bernanke trillion-dollar no-questions-asked giveaways.)

Obama’s impressive electoral mandate, which he earned by campaigning as an inclusive moderate capitalist, coincides with an authentic economic crisis. Our current economic situation obviously requires government solutions that substantially overlap with what’s been known as socialism.

Obama has been at pains to stress that he is not a socialist, but he has not embraced the ‘creative destruction’ touted in the cult-of-the-entrepreneur textbooks. What will he do? Is he inclined to break out of the ideological straitjacket? More socialism for the rich? Or for everyone this time?

Actully it was a lie all along and they knew it. Most anyone that investigates should know it. I suppose the lie did get exposed to people that really do not know – I always thought that was two fold:
- push the lie Obama was a liberal to try and cost him votes
- if that fails at least it sets him up to be “moving to the left”

The entire “center-right country” is real stupid but has truth in some ways:
without reguard to the PEOPLE being center-left the power + money biz/pols RULE the country center-right and laugh behind everyones back to think that the people should have a real democracy.

Isn’t it great to know that we live in a world where anyone can grow up to be a blogger, i.e., a force to be reckoned with? Speaking of reckoning, very soon (after the data are all analyzed and synthesized) poli-sci exams will have the following question:

Which one of the following media had the most or greatest influence* in determining the outcome of the 2008 presidential election AFTER the primary campaigns were concluded?

*according to only the best polls by only the best people

a. in-person speeches by the candidates
b. telegrams
c. newspapers
d. radios
e. TVs
f. direct-mailings
g. Internets