It is SO refreshing to see a president-elect who doesn’t look bored or smirky or winky. The adults are going to be in charge at long last!!

There are two questions about the cabinet:

1) What will their agenda be?

2) Do they have the skills to make it happen.

It’s pretty clear that they will not set policy- Obama will- with input. The question is whether they have what it takes to make the policy work.

I think it’s very interesting that Biden got a turn at the microphone. I guess that is to signal what his “portfolio” will be.

We have all tired of the Bush Puppet.

I have always understood that he is an expert on foreign policy. Believe he will do an excellent job.

It’s pretty clear that they will not set policy- Obama will- with input. The question is whether they have what it takes to make the policy work.

On economic matters I don’t think either Obama or his “dream” team understand what is going on. If you have bad policy, does it really matter whether your subordinates can enact or not? If the blind are leading the blind, does it really matter who’s leading?

obama: i assembled this team because i’m a believer in strong opinions. goes on to discuss the development of group think – which he explains correctly, but based on his implementation i’m not sure he understands.

Will Fox get a question this time?

I have always understood that he is an expert on foreign policy. Believe he will do an excellent job.

Yes, Biden was a big backer of the Iraq war and helped Bush sell it to the American people. With experience like that, what could go wrong?

the power of our moral example

I’m not sure we have any of that particular power left, although I’m all in favor of our earning our way back to having it.

It seems like Obama is clearly in charge. It’s time for all to stop thinking about the President as a little man controlled by those around him. It will not a Bush Presidency.

Well certainly if the policy is wrong, the implementation becomes irrelevant- as far as I know, the policy has not yet been solidified

I thought it was a pleasure to hear the Prez-elect say
“the buck stops with me” – I have no doubt of that. Your snark is noted.

jeremy scahill:

There was no stronger sign that Obama’s foreign policy would follow the hawkish tradition of the Democratic foreign policy establishment than his selection of Sen. Joe Biden as his running mate. Much has been written on Biden’s tenure as head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, but his role in the invasion and occupation of Iraq stands out. Biden is not just one more Democratic lawmaker who now calls his vote to authorize the use of force in Iraq “mistaken;” Biden was actually an important facilitator of the war.

In the summer of 2002, when the United States was “debating” a potential attack on Iraq, Biden presided over hearings whose ostensible purpose was to weigh all existing options. But instead of calling on experts whose testimony could challenge the case for war — Iraq’s alleged WMD possession and its supposed ties to al-Qaida — Biden’s hearings treated the invasion as a foregone conclusion. His refusal to call on two individuals in particular ensured that testimony that could have proven invaluable to an actual debate was never heard: Former Chief United Nations Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter and Hans von Sponeck, a 32-year veteran diplomat and the former head of the U.N.’s Iraq program.

Both men say they made it clear to Biden’s office that they were ready and willing to testify; Ritter knew more about the dismantling of Iraq’s WMD program than perhaps any other U.S. citizen and would have been in prime position to debunk the misinformation and outright lies being peddled by the White House. Meanwhile, von Sponeck had just returned from Iraq, where he had observed Ansar al Islam rebels in the north of Iraq — the so-called al-Qaida connection — and could have testified that, rather than colluding with Saddam’s regime, they were in a battle against it. Moreover, he would have pointed out that they were operating in the U.S.-enforced safe haven of Iraqi Kurdistan. “Evidence of al-Qaida/lraq collaboration does not exist, neither in the training of operatives nor in support to Ansar-al-Islam,” von Sponeck wrote in an Op-Ed published shortly before the July 2002 hearings. “The U.S. Department of Defense and the CIA know perfectly well that today’s Iraq poses no threat to anyone in the region, let alone in the United States. To argue otherwise is dishonest.”

With both men barred from testifying, rather than eliciting an array of informed opinions, Biden’s committee whitewashed Bush’s lies and helped lead the country to war. Biden himself promoted the administration’s false claims that were used to justify the invasion of Iraq, declaring on the Senate floor, “[Saddam Hussein] possesses chemical and biological weapons and is seeking nuclear weapons.”

The best thing I heard out of the presser was that the war on terror ends in Afghanistan.

Out of iraq, out of afghan, end the war on terror.

Question on the 16 month withdrawal from Iraq. Obama hedges. Supports the new SOFA. Says that combat forces should be out in 16 months but that a “residual” force would remain. Then hedges again about 16 months and adds in lots of caveats.

Biden himself promoted the administration’s false claims that were used to justify the invasion of Iraq, declaring on the Senate floor, “[Saddam Hussein] possesses chemical and biological weapons and is seeking nuclear weapons.”

Clinton did as well.

Interesting (?) to watch the Dow numbers on-screen as MSNBC broadcasts the presser. Stayed relatively static at roughly 400 points down. Reflection of security team reaction or . . . same old, same old?

yes.

……….

leahy presser beginning. live on cspan.

commenting on national security team.

You forgot to mention that Biden thinks Iraq should be divided in 3, regardless of what the Iraqis think.

OTOH all the big name picks seem to fully believe and act in accordance to a strong executive.

So Obama affirms strongly that we will be out of Iraq in 16 months, kind of, maybe.

…unless…

bingo!

I interpreted what Obama said differently. When I heard him say the war on terror ends in Afghanistan, I didn’t hear any exit plan. I thought he meant it would go on as long as U.S. has blood & treasure to spend there.

Anybody know? Did they snub Fox again?

Because I don’t watch teevee, I have never seen/heard Tweety. Must. Take. Tranquilizer.

Leahy hearts Holder.

Leahy sez he’s already pushed back on executive power enuf.

Actually, I have always thought that Iraq could end up divided into three sections, whether the US sanctioned it or not. Iraqis may come to this solution themselves. Perhaps Biden is smarter than we think?

Leahy hearts Holder.

Leahy folds. Now there’s a surprise.

He has no business opining on that. It’s up to the Iraqis. Whether he’s right or not is irrelevant. And he sounds like he’s not interested in their opinion anyhow.

Fair enough. I heard no exit plan either.

I am simply happy to hear the words “war on terror ends.” Hopefully it is a grouping of words that will enter into discussions across the country.

Reply above meant for ecahnomics.

Perhaps Biden is smarter than we think?

Perhaps. How smart is dirt?

Raising again the age-old Q of whether lip service is better than no service at all.

Having permanent bruises on the top of my head from banging up against the glass ceiling, I’m sensitive to the difference between words & deeds, or even more so, to words being used to forestall the deeds.

{{{zing!!!}}}

Yeah, I’m cynical enough at this point to quit listening and just watch. For the ‘honey moon’ I’ll just hear what I want to hear ;)

I haven’t seen any evidence that Biden is stupid. You may not agree with him but that doesn’t make him dumb. Why don’t you run? You don’t seem to like anything any more so run and do the job yourself.

How long’s the honeymoon, and when will you decide whether you’d been screwed or not?

Rhetorical Q, no need to answer.

IMHO the democrats have long been banged over the head with being weak on national defense. The failure of the economy took this off the table for this election. Posturing to attempt to take this off the table for future elections should not be ignored.

will answer anyway. no honeymoon, but period of re-evaluation is without end.

lol :)

Thank heavens for the pragmatists. Even on getting out of Iraq, I would have been hugely disappointed if Obama had said, “We’re leaving in 16months, regardless of how many casualties we lose in rearguard actions, regardless of who we leave trying to hang onto helicopter skids, we are going precisely then.” I know we are all ranged at different distances to the left of the fulcrum, on both domestic and foreign affairs, but some of us are starting to sound like Iago, whispering negativity at every instance. I mean, if one of the appointees had a bugger on their nose, I guess we need to point it out to improve their character and save the country.

1,843 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Greg Levin and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

I think that the biggest threat to the opportunities presented by the circumstances we find ourselves in as citizens of the world is the potentially malignant vacuum of the next 50 days.

I am convinced that the corporately sponsored right wing theocratic terrorism that now threatens to spark a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India and encourages an increased military campaign in Afghanistan can be defeated completely within the first 18 months of an Obama administration IF the outgoin’ fascist regime is blocked from committing another brainless military commitment either in Pakistan-India, Iraq or Afghanistan.

The new civilian elected government in Pakistan whose very existence is predicated on gettin’ rid of the Islamic theocrats has an opportunity here to forge an alliance with India that could very well isolate and emasculate the corporately sponsored terrorists if the US can stop playin Pakistan against India and get their backs while the two of ‘em go after the slugs that have been murderin’ and terrorizin’ each population for half a century.

The only thing that threatens the opportumity for the imposition of a PAX Obama is a stupid move on the part of the US at the behest of the corporate oligarchy.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, IT’S GUNNA BE OUR TURN IN JANUARY!!

try irc :D
http://widget.mibbit.com/?sett…..nnect=true

If we are taking 16 months to get out, that’s hardly a rush. I find the recourse to all the Vietnam imagery unhelpful. If an orderly withdrawal can’t be managed in 16 months that is not the fault of the timeline but the incompetence of those overseeing the withdrawal.

I am also not sure how this squares with Obama’s assertion that a residual force of undetermined size will be left in the country. How can we leave in helicopters if, in fact, we really aren’t leaving?

amen, norsky

3 or 4 months to get in, 16 months to get out. Heh. Will 16 months become the Obama Unit?

Perhaps Biden is smarter than we think?

Perhaps. How smart is dirt?

This is discourse?

I have just about come to the conclusion that progressives are happiest when they are bashing someone, whether that be Bush, or Obama.

As yes, we’re the Blame America First crowd.

Need to say that it actually took about eleven months prior to the invasion

I haven’t seen any evidence that Biden is stupid. You may not agree with him but that doesn’t make him dumb. Why don’t you run? You don’t seem to like anything any more so run and do the job yourself.

And yet Biden has a reputation for bloviating and saying dumb things. Apparently now that he has been elevated to the Vice Presidency all that has been wiped out, never happened.

As for my own plans, I’m holding out for a position as arch-angel.

Is that an appointed position?

So we strated sending troops to the area in April 02? I know some resources were pulled out of Afghanistan but thought they were mostly small numbers and special forces & intelligence. Thought the big troops movements & materiel (which is the alleged constraint on getting out) started being flown over toward the end of 02.

As yes, we’re the Blame America First crowd.

Huh?

The basis of your assumption seems to be that Obama wants to stay, despite what he’s stated. Hugh, I respect your opinion, but not to recognize that withdrawal of a military and civilian organization is a delicate and complicated task, much more difficult than commitment of a military force, is as doctrinaire as the viewpoints which got us into the mess.

There was a lot of planning that went on prior to the transport of troops and material. There will need to be some forethought to getting back as well.

Is that an appointed position?

Still researching it. I have the arch part down but having problems with the angelic bit. I’ve heard the working conditions are good although it involves a lot of basking whatever that is.

That one of the many standard criticisms of the Left by certain members of the Right. Can’t remember who coined it, but wanna say it was Reagan. But then, maybe I’m blaming him because I don’t like him.

And no forethought has been given to it in the last almost 6 years?

Breaking:
National Bureau of Economic Reserach officially declares U.S. is in a recession.

Nothing has been wiped out. Same Biden – just don’t think he is stupid. I’m not a Pollyanna but I’m not Judge Roy Bean either. At one time you were funny and enjoyable but at some point you turned completely negative and dark. I don’t know why and hope you can get back to being the old Hugh.

Not sure but the conditions there have been and continue to be fluid.

Damn somebody must have smuggled in a newspaper or something.

Breaking:
National Bureau of Economic Reserach officially declares U.S. is in a recession.

Is this a reality based organization?

gasp!

The actual withdrawal is straightforward. Our military has been doing these kinds of operations for decades. It’s complicated but it isn’t hard. It could be done in 6 months. The major bottleneck wouldn’t be in Iraq at all but in prepping and shipping equipment out of Kuwait.

The 16 month horizon is to allow Iraq to fill in the power vacuums left by our leaving. This part too is problematic since there has been no overall political settlement among the factions in Iraq and currently the term Iraq in this context refers to a weak and fairly unpopular central government. But this is also a given of the situation, that we have not and can not create a stable Iraq and therefore should get out and leave the Iraqis to choose between a modus vivendi or civil war.

What we have in Iraq is a bad situation. We can not solve it. We can only seek to manage it and mitigate its worst effects.

Gotta defend NBER. They are the official arbiters of the dates of business cycles. As such, their job is by nature backward looking because it is data based. And economics data get revised a lot, they must wait until enough evidence accumulates so that their initial determination will stand up to the test of time. They won’t declare the U.S. out of recession until a long time after it’s over either.

But since few understand that, it makes NBER look like jerks to outsiders.

However, the date is interesting. Used employment to date the peak to late 2007. Real GDP was close to flat (down a smidgeon) in the fourth quarter of last year and the third quarter of this year, rose a smidgeon in this year’s first quarter and a decent 2.8% annual rate in the second quarter, boosted by tax cuts. So choosing late last year as a peak was not a foregone conclusion.

I think that we all wanted the Bush nightmare to be over. But everything that Obama is showing is not a clear break with Bush but only a moderation in some of his policies. This is disheartening. But I think you are shooting the messenger. The situation of the country is dark. Looking at the economy and the numbers, I think most people don’t have an idea or even the remotest clue about how bad this could get and how little Obama or his choice of an economic team are likely to do what needs to be done. This is real. It is serious as serious as serious gets. Obama is bringing a squirt gun to deal with a three alarm fire. Am I really supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt? Or trust him that it will be OK? Or do I in looking at Obama use the same analytical tools and critical thought that I used to chronicle the disasters of the Bush years?

We really don’t know what he is going to do yet. I plan to yell a lot if he does something I don’t like but I don’t have a crystal ball. There are things that we do know about Obama – he is not connected with companies like Haliburton and Blackwater. He hasn’t kissed the behind of the Saudis and various others. I can’t find any evidence that he doesn’t love this country and will try his best. Bush and Cheney had INTENT when they entered office – to take everything over and become completely in charge of the world, if possible.

Thank you eCHAN for taking the time to illuminate, my comment was out of order, a lame try at humor, should have known better. This is just one example where the education of the public is a failure, people should know how their government works, thanks again for the information

Nothing has been wiped out. Same Biden – just don’t think he is stupid. I’m not a Pollyanna but I’m not Judge Roy Bean either. At one time you were funny and enjoyable but at some point you turned completely negative and dark. I don’t know why and hope you can get back to being the old Hugh.

Hard to read here at FDL sometimes, because a few of the regular commenters (you know who you are) have gone all negative, all criticism, gripe and moan and put downs of Obama, his picks, his policies, day after day. It’s like we haven’t all just spent 8 years under the worst president ever. Can we just give the man at least until he’s inaugurated before we relegate him to the garbage pile?

I have just about come to the conclusion that progressives are happiest when they are bashing someone, whether that be Bush, or Obama.

I agree! Is it generational? I’m “sixty something” too.

Hugh, you have become unreadable. Sad state, as you once brought some light to your posts. Without it there is no illumination. Just a dark shadow thrown over everything.

Given the volume of your posts, along with those of eCAHN, selise and others, the pervasive cynicism and over-the-top negativity has ruined the comment threads here. I feel for Christy who has to be here every day.

I’m nobody here—just a long-time lurker. I know that the regulars here are likely to dismiss my opinion as meaningless. They may be right. But had to raise my voice as this site has become so thoroughly dominated by a small but vociferous group… one that won’t even allow the possibility of future evidence invalidating there current certainty.

And by the way, I agree that things will become much worse than people are prepared for. But the relentless impugning of intent of someone who has yet to govern a single day perhaps requires some more detached reflection on your part.

Is there any possibility that Obama has a better and more comprehensive plan (and more real information to base it on) than you give him credit for? Any possibility at all?

Any possibility that his (long-term) intent to repair this country doesn’t allow for the learning curve and ideological filter that progressive fellow-travelers might bring to positions that require knowledge of how to work the system as-it-exists?

I suspect he judges there isn’t time to change the system AND deal with the critical state of so many immediate problems. The institutional resistance to perceived radical change could be the difference between achieving anything useful at all in terms of damage/harm reduction on the down side (which still has a long, long way to go before bottoming out) so necessary to preventing the potential total system failure that looms.

Is he taking a huge risk with putting these centrist establishment players in such positions — absolutely. But it may be the only play he has. His preferred approach of using establishment players from within the system to implement unrelenting incremental change may be the only way to turn this super-tanker around. But we may well find out that 8 years from now, the seemingly tiny individual course corrections have carried us to a whole new destination.

I may be totally wrong about my observations of his approach and divination of his intent, but there is as much empirical evidence to support it (i.e. not nearly enough) than there is to support yours.

Excuse my presumptuousness that this post could be anything more than me pissing into the wind. I honestly hope you will reflect on it, because I suspect it’s not just Twain and I that have observed with dismay your recent trajectory.

db11, you captured beautifully exactly what I was trying to say in my comments, and those to whom I was speaking. Of course, everyone has moved “upstairs” so those of us who mostly lurk will be unnoticed. But I wanted to say, “Bravo, and thanks” for your comment.

Why don’t you consider putting it into a diary?

Thanks for saying this. It has become a dreary place to be sometimes. These are difficult days but I have hope and look forward to the future.

Damn, I wish I were as smart as you, Hugh and eCAHNomics are. You folks seem to know everything.

My question is: Have you ever been responsible for running a multi million dollar or multi thousand person organization? Or do you just pontificate?

My question is: Have you ever been responsible for running a multi million dollar or multi thousand person organization? Or do you just pontificate?

You mean like Henry Paulson at Goldman Sachs and later the Treasury.
Or Vikram Pandit at Citigroup.
Or James Cayne at Bear Stearns
Or Martin Sullivan at AIG
Or Joseph Cassano the head of AIG’s Financial Products division
Or Richard Fuld at Lehman Brothers
Or Daniel Mudd at Fannie Mae
Or Richard Syron at Freddie Mac
Or Angelo Mozilo at Countrywide
Or Richard Wagoner at GM
Or Robert Steel at Wachovia
Or Kerry Killinger at Washington Mutual.

You’re right I haven’t. These people have. What’s your point?

Thanks.

Not really interested in visibility on the site—hence the rare comments—so won’t diary this, but was compelled to speak up. I think many have become dismayed by the pervasive tone of impending doom/progressive betrayal that has infested the comments and, increasingly, the front page as well.

Twain’s comment was the catalyst for mine, and thought I’d piggyback a bit on his/her community credibility as a regular.

Cheers.

I’m a her and 75 years old. If I can look forward with hope almost everyone should be able to. You write beautifully and express yourself so clearly. Thanks.
Not sure I have any credibility at all here.

Awesome that you remain involved and continue to contribute your voice to the community!

Have always perceived you as reasonable and balanced in your comments, neither a Pollyanna, nor a gloom-and-doom nihilist. People reveal themselves (and their intent) over time through their words and deeds—and often in ways that they, themselves aren’t aware of.

From my POV, what you have revealed about your being draws my respect and, I would bet, that of others here as well.

I hope you will continue to comment. We need all the clear thinkers we can get. Stay around, please.

Am here way too often actually! (Though considerably less than in past years for the reasons elucidated in my post.)

As for commenting, I normally prefer to remain in the background. Your comment provided an opening to express something I’ve been thinking for a long time.

Thanks for that, and for your kind words.

Before we can turn the USS Titanic around,; we have to prevent it from sinking further.Good grief we are coming to the end of eight years of Cheney/Bush et all. We are a nation careening down the mountain like Arlo in his “motorcycle song/story. Luckily we did not go over the mountain..we went over the cliff..
…All our lives, all we have known, is how Washington has worked no matter who the President was/is. Can Obama pull it off? He has pulled it off to get this far.
tap yer toes…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g266Uwp6ZnI

To the moderator. I notice you did not post my last comment. Fair enough, but suggest you use your moderating powers to clean up some of the ideological nonsense/garbage that has been posted recently.

Otherwise, this blog is going to turn into a bunch of choir members preaching to each other and all dissenting opinions will be gone.

I answered your question, but the moderator did not chose to post my answer. If you really want to know what I said, then contact the moderator.

Don’t know why you might have had a comment moderated but it’s been my experience here at FDL that disagreements are just fine and dandy as long as the disagreement stays in the realm of arguments and doesn’t become a personal attack.

The only comments I’ve had moderated have been where I said something about another commenter or hinted at violence