Good morning, Christy!

Morning — thank goodness for coffee this morning. Whew…

Morning Christy!

Now let’s make them harness it for good…

you’re on

Very nice overview in prep for the announcements this morning, CHS. The right-wing probably thinks we are still in a trytophan torpor, but we’re rested and ready.

I included the video of Face the Nation above so folks could contrast the serious way that Jane Mayer answered questions with the gossip girl antics of Bob Woodward. It was really weird, I have to say, but I thought maybe it was just me and my predisposition to question Woodward’s self-promotion motives whenever he does a teevee appearance. *g*

Count me in.

Just another buncha right wing warmongers. Change indeed. But then, it’s just what I expected.

Tried to include several perspectives on the appointments potential for everyone to see — thought the article in The Nation was a good back and forth. (That’s where the Feingold quote comes from, btw).

A competent SoS seems like such a foreign concept after all these years of Rice.

Thanks, Christy. If Hillary and Barack stay focused (with our help) on what is important, I expect them to be capable of great accomplishments when working together.

Competence in any Cabinet office will be a change of pace.

Competence, period, would be nice. Wouldn’t it? And how sad is it that is something to wish for rather than simply expect?

Josh pointed out awhile ago that one thing Hillary’s bad at is administration. Her two tries at it: her prez campaign and medical task force, were disasters. (Her NYS campaigns don’t count as she had no competition.) So she may be high profile for shaking hands, but don’t expect her to do much to increase the depth at the State Dept. But who needs that when all the foreign policy big egos get to be in the news.

Oh yes, and Susan bomb-them-for-humanitarian-reasons Rice at the U.N. Interventionism all over the place.

Don’t forget, Kissinger is on board, too.

November 16th:

Henry Kissinger said Hillary Clinton, a leading contender to be the Barack Obama’s Secretary of State, would be an “outstanding” appointment.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....refer=home

All’s right with the world.

All the usual suspects. Can’t wait until they find a consulting position, or blue ribbon panel for Rumsfeld to serve on.

Yep — feel the changiness. *g* But honestly, if anyone was expecting radical change in this area of policy, they weren’t paying sufficient attention to advisors and such…

i don’t know how to see this as a group of competent advisors. and quite frankly the idea designing a foreign policy team because it makes bush look bad instead of actually changing the direction of our foreign policy is a non-starter for me (”Gates at DOD, anchors the Iraq mess as Bush’s legacy”)

i get that obama is probably a hawk (contrary to his primary campaign) but that doesn’t mean i’m going cheer, or even be silent, when the failed policies of the past - ones that caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people - are now being called “experience.”

btw, I’m told that the announcement this morning will be via a press pooled, closed event that will have a feed for television media and such. So no idea how or whether it will be televised live or later in the day. Likely they’ll have a live feed going on most media outlets, but I can’t say that for certain at this point…thought folks would want to know.

As I ended my comment in 7: it’s just what I expected. Just because it was a foregone conclusion, however, does not exempt one from pointing it out when it happens.

I also have misgivings about the “usual suspects” approach. However, choosing, then managing well, an experienced team to the cabinet seems to be how our better presidents have approached the appointee process.

Digg It

Nicely done. May all of your pronouncements go as well. bless you.

if anyone was expecting radical change in this area of policy, they weren’t paying sufficient attention to advisors and such

obama’s foreign policy advisors did change - once he won the nomination.

but more importantly, my objection is not about expectations - it’s about calling out failures and bad advisors, even when they are part of an obama administration instead of a bush administration.

we all knew better than to expect bush to change his foreign policy - but that didn’t stop us from objecting to it when it was stupid and dangerous and immoral.

I seriously doubt that many here expected vast change, just based on what all of us already knew about advisors, positions, and such. The key is going to be discerning how open to course correction and/or reconsidering policy directions or plans over time the Obama administration may be…or not.

There are some good folks who were at lower level advisor positions during the campaign, but what I haven’t heard is where — if at all — some of those folks will fit into the mix. The real work gets done at the next few levels down at state and elsewhere, and I want to know who will be doing those jobs. Am hoping Spencer will have a good handle on that in the days ahead as he’s much more plugged in to the scuttlebutt at that level than I am…

cspan sez “live converage” of Obama presser.

Also, another note re foreign policy. Will be very intrigued to see the BO response to the crisis in India.

Our Indian friends were on his bandwagon very early and questioned us assiduously about him. (They knew more about him than I did at that time.)

It’s clear to me he’s facing enough challenges in the FP area. He needs all the experienced counsel he can consult.

I think that those at the top set the agenda and there is no possibility of having good foreign policy with the crew Obama has selected. The worker bees are of marginal importance.

Could be Obama now subscribes to alchemy, wants to turn shit into gold..evil into good..whatever.

The “real work” will hopefully be done. I am with you here.

Good Morning Christy and Pups.

Thank you for this post Christy. I always appreciate hearing your take on things, especially when we are in such close agreement - heh -. Add Dragon, and we have a budding quorum.

I am as picky as the next guy, but I just cannot get myself revved up to a full panic over ANYTHING Obama has done so far. It’s WAY too early in the game for that. imo.

Even when I find I’m lukewarm over some of his cabinet choices, I still have a lot of faith that he is working toward achievable and laudable gains, so I’m not going to judge harshly.

I suspect there’s some flavor akin to “keeping [prickly personalities & potential problem children] closer” in a number of Obama’s choices so far.

Obama does NOT strike me either as a despot, or a wimp. He DOES strike me as a brilliant tactician and strong negotiator - terrific at working with all manner of people; someone who thinks ahead and carefully plans his actions; and - most especially - someone who is downright crafty at cutting off problems at the pass and steering people with great finesse. Finally, I think he shows abundant evidence of deep compassion. Add the sense of humor, and… [i’d hate to play chess against this guy, but i’d trust putting my country’s future in his hands]

Wooooboyyyyyy! C’mon January 20!?!

Time will tell.

disclaimer: of course this is too gushy by far, but i haven’t had my coffee yet. gimme a minute to revisit. NAH! Let someone shoot down my hunches one by one, but not without solid evidence. ;->

Listened to that video twice now (cannot watch that smarmy bastard Woodward) — jeebus, Woodward sounds like he’s a Kool-Aid addict, too many years of sipping the beverage with the kool-kids at cocktail parties.

No comparison with Mayer. The old man needs to pack up and shove off for a nice warm retirement community.

Can you imagine the Kool-Aid quaffer trying to do yet another book, this time on Obama?? Yeesh.

Depressed in Arizona…..

loosing our Governor pretty much flushes the state down the Republican toilet….. and puts a bubble head idiot in her seat….. and bunch of really radical wingnuts in the legislature…… we might see that guns in bars bill back up for a vote…..

Governor Janet will be great as head of Homeland security….. great administrator…. but there is also talk of taking one of our Democratic congressmen for another post……..

Amen! I’m experiencing whiplash already, and “he’s not President yet.” *g*

Yeah, that is a tough one in terms of whether to pull Napolitano or not, I think. She’s wonderful and Homeland Security desperately needs someone at the helm who isn’t a freakish, liberty-assaulting incompetent asshole like Chertoff. (Can you tell I loathe him?) But it sucks for AZ because she’s been so great for Dems in the state.

I really, really wanted her at DOJ. SIGH

And in other news, is facebook a country?
http://www.25hoursaday.com/web.....untry.aspx

I wonder which cabinet pick has more facebook friends.

Yeah, the Woodward portion of the show was almost like watching an SNL parody of him, wasn’t it?

To add some nuance. One thing we learned too late about Clinton Admin was the fundamental damage he did to the financial and immigration systems. That did not become apparent until W took over and compounded the errors. It could be the same with Obama. It could be that things appear to improve, owing to lack of bulls in china shop. But with a whole group that uses military as first resource for every problem, entanglements will proliferate, with bad consequences for the future.

I’m terribly disappointed with people who seem to conflate competence with good policy.

i agree. and i think we also have to consider the possibility that the advisors do reflect his views - at least more so than the advertising campaign we call elections.

count me among the anxious - the advisors he’s chosen so far are much worse than i expected and i think i was paying some attention.

You think you’re depressed now? Try imagining Ohio with concealed carry. I assume a few people in AZ look before shooting, and know how to aim. oh groan.

On that bright note….

We’ll hold hands. I’m a pretty fair whistler. We’ll get through this together. Okay?

((((katymine)))) I hope that you don’t lose your governor, I will move to Arizona if it will make a difference. I swear I won’t let your state go all wanky rethuglican at the governor’s seat, we can work together.

Not certain we can know policy as yet given that he’s not even in office. Personnel can be policy if the person at the top of the heap isn’t paying attention — as in Bush handing over national security in its entirety to Cheney and crew — but where you have a manager who is actively involved in steering the actions of those working under him or her? Especially harnessing competence in some areas as a catalyst for his or her policy initiatives being put into play?

That could get interesting. Which is why, at this point, I’m wary while we wait to see what those policies will be as things move forward, but I’m not yet anxious. The meeting with Petreus sticks out as a “interested in what you have to say, but I’ll ultimately be making decisions based on any number of factors” means of governance. It remains to be seen whether that will keep moving forward or not, though, eh?

Are you sharing my goofy mental disconnect these days?

Obama before the cameras, speaking concisely, intelligently, about all manner of important things vying for his attention.

Junior appearing almost as regularly on the tee-vee and, dang, can’t unnerstand a thang that whuz-up-kid jus’ done said, nor why i should care, but i want it retired to someplace i don’t have-ta see it agin!

Kenney weighs in:

At the risk of making predictions which may not come true it seems to me that Hillary, being in the business only of promoting Hillary, immediately will seek to rise into the Pantheon of great Secretaries of State. It’s clear she can’t get there through a modern day version of the Marshall Plan: the U.S. is broke and it’s other countries bailing us out these days, not the other way around. Nor can she roll back a world-wide threat of Communism. She could embrace the unglamorous task of wrapping up our wars of choice but it’s hard to see how she could claim full credit. No, what Hillary needs is a new crisis and, I predict, if she can’t find one she’ll invent one.

http://www.electricpolitics.co......html#more

Why would “a manager who is actively involved” chose people who disagree with his policies? Much more likely they were chosen because they agree with Obama’s agenda. Least that’s been my best forecasting tool for human behavior.

That pretty closely describes my take. I just don’t see Obama as Von Ribbentrop and so far he seems to be able to control the activities of those working with/for him. I’ll be surprised if anyone thinks they can build a separate empire in the State Dept., Defense Dept., etc.

At my advanced age, I have determined the type of person that I believe would promote “Good Policy”, who which is likely similiar to you would endorse, is unelectable. They cannot and will not receive fair treatment in the media or the “debates”. The powers that be really do not want that sort of person as our leader, for they fear true Progressive policy.

I am with you here….

You’re probably right about the electibility issue. But if we don’t keep pointing out what’s wrong with those who are elected, that will never change.

As for his selection of Eric Holder for AG, this is required reading:

http://www.inteldaily.com/news.....12-01.html

Mine too.

rom where I sit, dealing each day with casualties of this unraveling economy

Hilary is the least of our problems

I’ll miss the boots and military collar - NOT.

obviously, my biggest problemn is typing and spelling today- ha

True, that does hit an Occam’s Razor point. But could it also be that in balancing the financial versus the foreign policy ends of things, trying to have folks who can be competent while juggling a bazillion balls in the air at once is a tough thing to staff up? Not saying he’s doing any of this correctly, I’m just trying to make sense of it in my own mind.

Given the breadth of all the problems facing the country at the moment, I cannot imagine being the person tasked with fixing all of them at once. What a fricking thankless job that’s going to be…no matter how well it may end up being done in the end, it’s still a miserable slog through the shit that Bush and Cheney are going to leave in their wake.

Last second edits don’t work out well, do they?

I think we might be being sold a bill of goods here. Totally centerist ideas, being sold as moderate. What the hell does any of that mean? Good luck with any progressive ideas anywhere to be seen or heard anywhere in reality.

2005 Obama gained respect for Clinton? Just last year he told us that he thought all Senator Clinton’s foriegn policy credentials had included having tea parties with foriegn dignitary’s wives. Now we hear Russ Feingold telling us about the Generals wanting to speak with her first and her vast knowledge of the players involved. Guess we’re in for some revision of history again.

That’s Feingold, not Obama. Try reading the link from whence the quote was pulled and the sentence right before it.

How many Friedman units should Obama get?

As a younger person, I chose to associate with people who thought like I did. As I mature, I find myself spending a little more time with people I know have opinions which are opposed to my own. For me, I’m finding I’m learning more about myself from our relationships because I’m forced to imagine the whys of our differences. I’m forced to become more discerning and critically thinking.

It took me about four seconds of Woodward to start swearing at him. “She never goes away”. What in the f’g hell was that suppose to mean? She has been and still is a Senator. Was she supposed to be a Wallflower Senator. What an ass is Woodward!

I’m more worried about Obama’s ego than Hillary’s.

Shouldn’t he get in office and actually enact a policy before we slam him for its results? Shouldn’t we actually have a policy to slam before we start hopping up and down about it?

Seems a bit premature to predict progressive Armageddon before he even produces a single initiative to me. Especially since I wasn’t exactly expecting progressive nirvana from Obama in the first place.

seriously good question….

My life is exactly the opposite. By dint of my career, I spent most of it with people with whom I fundamentally disagreed. It did teach me to hone my analysis, but got pretty sick of it as time wore on.

i agree in part - my ideal pics would not be electable. but obama was supported by many, many young people because they believed there would be a change in foreign policy. obama could be making somewhat different choices - one’s that would also have “experience” - but that would also reflect the change he promised his supporters and without going anywhere near my ideal pics.

that obama hasn’t done this is deeply disturbing to me.

I agree. I often think of an occasion when, as airheaded teenager, I yelled through the house that “we need more (something).” After a pause of a few seconds, I heard my normally gentle, stoic father yell back, “If I hear one other person say WE need something, I’m coming after them.”

I don’t envy Obama either and grasped at the somewhat encouraging straw that someone of his caliber would still seek the job.

before the fact?

YES. I think people can learn, adapt, change. Even some smart people reach such lofty, mind-boggling feats of wondrous accomplishment.

NO. I will not panic without further evidence BASED ON OBAMA ADMINISTRATION PERFORMANCE.

sorry to shout. need. coffee.

In a “when the president does it it’s not illegal” sorta way?

Ah, yes. Our careers put us in different groups. You, Wall Street. Me, the tv and movie industry. Both Sides Now. Could be advantages to each of our situations. Sort of like the differences between having children when you are younger, versus having them older.
It’s working for me that I’m here now because as my life is less busy in the outside world and I spend more time trying to make sense, I am putting myself in situations where I’m getting grist for my mill. *g*

OT
Institute of Supply Management new orders index for November (published at 10am) reaches all time low. This is a very important leading indicator for manufacturing and implies a recession deeper than any since WWII. That is what forecasters have been talking about, but this is a real piece of data that supports that.

I totally agree…… I’m waiting after Jan 20th and then through the first 100 days… Just because person X is in a position then Y will happen….that means the full meaning of assuming….. not going to do it…

lol, Dept. of Corporate Data Mining?

Heh. Were you watching the end of WJ? They had Howard & another guest talking about their Nixon-Frost movie. They played that clip. Don’t remember if it was the original or the movie, but Frost’s double take was priceless.

Oh, you were just watching the Ron Howard & Morgan show on CSPAN? I thought it was good.

samantha power is probably the one who worries me the most. very very dangerous warmonger (dangerous in that she is very good at convincing liberals to go to war).

Ah. 1/2 of a new DC power couple.

preview is my friend… ;->

besides, you’re just trying to make the rest of us feel better.

thanks for that, and just for being at the Lake.

*exrqbds hqbd*extends hand*

“Excuse me?” He couldn’t believe Nixon was being so transparent, I think.
I’m looking forward to the movie. Did you have a chance to see the play?

Actually, I seriously mistook the meaning of your question. Sorry.

I’m not.

evidence: He married Michelle.

lol, no, i missed that. Haven’t tuned into WJ much lately.

No didn’t see the play. Do you remember if the clip was original interview or movie?

Reading Nixonland. Terrific book. I lived through it but was not interested in politics so I missed it all.

np, what was your thought?

I don’t know anything about Michelle so don’t draw any inferences from that. What do you know about her?

I’ve read both his books.

I don’t buy that these are good choices. Clinton is a hawk who supported the Iraq war until mid-2006 and even then her chief criticism was that Bush had handled it badly. She has pointedly refused to apologize for her role in voting for the war or her long enabling of it. Her talk about Israel and Iran if anything was even crazier than Obama’s.

James Jones was a Marine general. Like most career military, he views the world in essentially military terms. As the financial meltdown, trade with China, peak energy, and global warming show, however, there are many national security problems that don’t have military solutions. Also as I wrote last night, an emphasis on the military aspects of policy overlook culture, religion, economics, history, and technology. It is precisely this simplistic view of the world that characterized Bush’s policies and a prime reason why they failed so miserably.

As for Gates, yeah, nothing says change you can believe in like keeping a Bush backer in one of the most important posts in government. And come January 20, 2009, Afghanistan and Iraq will be Obama’s wars not Bush’s.

Christy, you’re a keeper.

I used to think that Hillary had to defend her Iraq vote to prove that she was an alpha female. Otherwise she had no creds as commander-in-chief. Now I’m reevaluating. Maybe she really thought it was a good idea. Bill signed the law that made it possible. Used to think that was just lip service to get it on the back burner. Now I’m reevaluating.

Just shows ya how long you can live consciously with a false premise.

I just have to say, I don’t like Hillary Clinton. I think she is anything but progressive. Anyone who is friends with the Lady de Rothchild is not progressive, period, you can’t dispute this. No way. No how. Period. Can’t. Be. Done. American Enterprise Institute. Council on Foreign Relations. Bilderberg Group. Dispute this, not likely.

When I read your posts I wonder how YOU can stand it around here lately.

All the usual suspects. Can’t wait until they find a consulting position, or blue ribbon panel for Rumsfeld to serve on.

Rumsfeld would be great for a bipartisan commission on Iraq. He knows all about the unknowns we faced there, except of course for those pesky unknown unknowns.

I believe it was the movie.

facebook is obviously just a nice, passive way to put forth one’s character and belief system ;p

But does he know that he doesn’t know the unknown unknowns?

I thought twice before I hit the submit button on that comment. It’s so inflammatory. What decided me in favor of posting it is that it so OTT, it would be great to be on the record if it actually happened.

You talking to me?
or ?

That’s the way I remember it, as the Frost actor was more played than spontaneous.

Curious about what you mean, if you don’t mind my asking most respectfully?

I don’t see anything inflammatory about what you said?

Well, obviously, lol!

I’ll try harder next time. *g*

Guess we’re in for some revision of history again.

So untrue. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

Go Hugh!

I guess I am struck that Christy is willing to have a little faith that things may be moving in a positive direction.

I noticed on a thread that I was monitoring while reading that you all got into 1984. I just listened to it again (read it twice before, but one was when I was a teenager) a couple of months ago. What chilled me about it this time was the ability of the state to spy on you & see your innermost thoughts.

I’m not going to stand here and fire buckshot from 10 paces.

I have too much respect for you and the rest of those at the Lake.

I will back off, so we don’t end up arrayed along multiple hardened lines wayyyyy before it’s called for, imo.

I have scientific experience, which I have belabored too much in print before, so I’m done doing that here or anywhere else. At this point in my life, I feel my experience and training give me fairly reliable perspective, but not an iron clad, publishable thesis on what I chose to study at this time in my life.

My track record is fairly good. When did you spot dubya and shooter for what they were, and try to join Molly Ivins and Ann Richards in warning people?

My (Ivy) MS research was published in the leading world-class journal in my field, and I ran out of reprints requested by scientists around the world, most of whom addressed me as “Dr.” (although I do NOT have a PhD). My “research” these days is anecdotal at best.

Do you consider economics an exact science? ethology?
Physicists would throw both of us aside.
I do not believe in food fights as a method of discussion.
I’d rather visualize whirled peas.

*offers hand with great respect and admiration*

P. E. A. C. E.

Seems a bit premature to predict progressive Armageddon before he even produces a single initiative to me. Especially since I wasn’t exactly expecting progressive nirvana from Obama in the first place.

I don’t think that the problems the country is facing can wait on a bunch of DINOs and Republican-Lites not unaddressing them or not addressing them effectively.

or me? *g*

and let us not forget that Kissinger is a dirtbag/scumbag/scoundrel.

Someone has too.

A little faith is positive.

Don’t know how your response adresses my request for information about Michelle Obama. I don’t know anything about her, and was asking you to explain to me what you knew about her and why that led you to admire her and Barack. I mentioned that I had read both his books to indicate that if some of your info came from them, I was already aware of it and you didn’t need to repeat it.

Don’t know why my asking to be educated provoked your comment.

Remember what she did for a career? I think the skills and strengths she developed then help her keep her head on straight now.

I think you are awesome…..!

Now I see he was speaking to Christy.
And, I thought I left my ego at the door. Ha. Guess not.

The Obama presser is about to start.

obama presser to announce foreign policy team live on cspan.

lol, whatcha drinkin?

Don’t fret eCAHN, some folks are not able to answer simple questions, not your fault at all.

Aw, well, shucks. You’re aren’t so bad yourself!

obama:

our destiny is shared with the world. we have a stake in what happens around the globe

hateful extremism. blah, blah.

uncertain world. new beginning.

american’s values are our greatest export to the world.

power of our moral example. team we’ve assembled today are prepared to do just that.

This is perhaps the fourth time here where someone has read something into a simple question that I did not intend.

seriously, I don’t know what else to say, I appreciate your candor….

“Where the war on terror will end.”

That was the most positive thing I’ve heard in a long time.

only four? you’re doing well.

“cachet”

Only the fourth? Not bad, considering the limits of virtual dialogs. We’re all human, bringing different stuff to the table that doesn’t always translate fully.

I thought your question was easy to understand, I have no quibble with it, I personally think you are a person of superior intellect and character. I sincerely thank you for your interaction here.

Ha! I know I should be paying more attention to the presser, but he is a fairly blah blah kinda guy. Got one ear on it, though.

Yep, that’s about it. But perhaps there have been more that I chosen to ignore.

I also appreciate your razor wit.

I’m not used to complements! Especially this early in the morning. Thanks :)

Thank you. What a nice thing to say. I appreciate it.

Where is Biden?

clinton - secretary of state. commands respect in every capital.
gates - sec of war. must succeed against aq and the taliban.
holder - ag [since when did this become a national security position?]
napolitano - dhs
susan rice - amb to the un
jones - nsa

obama:
i am confident this team is what is necessary for a new beginning.
bipartisan foreign policy
commitment to national unity

It is meant with total sincerity.

/me starts to eye the complementary one with suspicion ;)

Wow. Is Gates really as short as he appears on my TV?

Oops there he is

My “evidence” on Michelle is anecdotal, thus probably would be tossed with the compost by you and some others.

It gives me a “hunch”, a STRONG one.

Did you view the movie, “The Horse Whisperer?” Did you know the author of the book on which it is based disavowed the movie and refused to promote it.

He preferred “Man Who Listens to Horses.”

HIS title fit the training scheme for which he is now famous around the world.
The movie title, and some of its scenes, were pure bogus and he said so.

I trained using many of his methods - 45 years before I ever heard of the man Monty Roberts. It works. It’s almost too subtle to describe in words. He trained decades before ethology was known as a science, yet he used skills and techniques an ethologist would.

That’s my training also. I won’t explain further, because it’s beside the point in this discussion, which is not about horse training.

Suffice to say, the two of us received vastly different training and honed very different skills on which we have depended in our adult lives.

It wouldn’t be a bad thing if we kept talking. I promise not to strut and preen any more. Honest. *uncrosses cramped fingers slowly and carefully*

Aw don’t do that… ;-)

Standing next to Obama.

Dude, lighten up…..

holder - ag [since when did this become a national security position?]

You can’t trample on the constitution unless it is for nation security.

lol, ok :)

I so hate trampling…

Tag team thank yous ongoing.

Thanks.

I listened to Man Who Talks to Horses in 01, and Horse Whisperer in 02. They’re pretty dim in my memory but I at least have a clue as to what you’re talking about. I also rode English for several years, so can relate a bit to how one could sit astride a horse and communicate quite differently from the mental/physical way that was my wont.

You’re right that our skill sets are very different, but your 142 was perfect for explaining why you think the way you do.

SH
Adie was responding to me and I found the comment very helpful.

Ah Oh…. that dedication to the UN is going to get the black helicopter group riled up…….

yeah :/

Civil and human rights at home and abroad is our greatest nation treasure.

God bless you for understanding, I was totally confused….
I do know however that you are a very intelligent, articulate human person, not a horse, or any part thereof…..

d’uh! of course. thanks for clearing that up for me.

new post up: Obama’s Big Cabinet Rollout: Clinton, Holder, Gates, Napolitano

So true, so true….

It’s taken me a long time to get to know some of the personalities here. Many strong, bright minds and personalities. I find that most can hold there own and in the working out of misunderstandings, if we just watch, we will learn.
(Ladies! I salute you.)

Sometimes we just have to have a laugh about it all.

Biden congratulates Obama for assembling such a fine team to lead us into the new century. As anyone told Biden that the new century began several years ago.

geez they buzz my house enough now!

hey! no one can say that biden doesn’t learn from changing circumstances.

thanks!

Bless his heart, serveral years ago….;-)

ECAHNomics.

I tell a lot by knowing background, observing, listening.
That’s all I have in the way of “evidence” to “guess” that Michelle is a brilliant, strong, compassionate person.

My hunch is that she will help keep Barack properly humble and grounded while dealing with the difficult tasks facing him.

Funny, but I don’t have worries about his ego getting in the way either.
I highly suspect he will insist on a team approach in working with his cabinet, but there will be no question who is leader.

My mental jury is still out on Hillary regarding ego, much less Bill’s influence. I hope she does well and Bill minds his manners, sigh.

Sorry about all the nonsense. I’ve been flamed before. I hope a blog is a proper place for conjecture, when opinions are properly labeled as such. I try to mind my manners.

agreed. lots going on here. surgery in family, sigh. should go fine but me sorta rocky for no reason in particular. apologies.

I laugh a lot. Ask anyone.

Biden congratulates Obama for assembling such a fine team to lead us into the new century. As anyone told Biden that the new century began several years ago.

Yeah, but Biden also knows that the Bush administration was never part of or into the 21st century.

Adie, you have seriously done yourself perfectly fine. Don’t take any ribbing for anything more than it means that we like you. We all have been where you have been. Don’t worry about any nonsense, that is what life is all about. ;-)

Adie I sincerely hope that your family does well with respect to any health issues. Like I said before we love everybody here. We hope that you continue to present your opinions, because we all do! May you know that we appreciate all viewpoints and continue to bless us with your presence!

Thanks again.

When I was on Wall St I gave a lot of presentations, and wrote reports. Those were the end of the process of research, and the most valuable part. So now I use the blog for that purpose. So yes, conjecture, disagreement, defense, questions. All seem to be OK here. Though tempers sometimes flare.

My intuition on Barack Obama (I know the techniques you are talking about are much broader & deeper than just intuition, but I use that word as shorthand) is very negative. My experience with jumping to negative conclusions about people is that they are eerily accurate. Positive ones, not so much. My idols often turn out to have feet of clay. So that’s the POV I come to this presidency with. I try to keep my comments to the evidence, though.

To answer an earlier question, economics is not a science. I was a chemistry major as an undergraduate, and believe me, the difference between the two fields in clarity of thinking is an enormous gulf. Economics is a social science in the sense that there are principles that have been developed and that evidence can be used to support or deny. Not that you’d know that from the economics policy makers and talking heads that have been much in evidence for the past 8 years.

Hell I’m not sure they showed up for the twentieth century

Oh fudge! Some of my best friends have been horses! I trained horses, published about bird behavior. I listen, occasionally, as a last resort.

166: Demi does laugh a lot. Ask anyone.

and 168:
Thank you sweetie. I’m fine. Will take a few deep breaths and maybe avoid the caffeine for awhile.

over & out. i promise(!)

Please do come back. We do appreciate you!

This has nothing to do with anything happening today, but I know you are interested in several different things.. This is a interview with the head of Norad. Bits of fluff, but some interesting stuff on what was happening sept 11, maybe it will fill in some gaps… :)

Conversation With Major General Larry Arnold, Commander, 1st Air Force, Tyndall AFB, Florida
http://www.codeonemagazine.com.....2/defense/

No matter what, you are a doll!

Thanks much for coming back into EPUland to chat s’more.

I always zero in on your comments because you have a wonderful way of explaining economics issues so we laymen can almost understand. And I know you’ve “been there” in a tough field.

Thank you for your generosity and good company.

You rattled me by getting such neg. vibes from Obama (how’s that for scientific, heh). His will be a daunting challenge. We all hope he’s up to it. We’ll just have to keep a sharp eye out. It will be an interesting administration, and a far cry from the current abomination.

Hey Dude! Chill! We’re good. Okay? Apologies but -erm- wild horses couldn’t keep me away from this place.

It will be an interesting administration, and a far cry from the current abomination.

Amen.

And I take your positive vibes seriously.

As a scientist, I should keep a written record on my negative vibes & how they work out or don’t, instead of just toting them up in my own biased brain. *g*

I find that people who live in the military world, see the world in terms of military solutions. Those of us who don’t live in the military world, find their solutions dismaying and disturbing.

As pointed out in a book by two neo-cons published by Cambridge Univ. Press, “After Bush, ” there will be little change in US foreign policy under Obama.

And no one ever thanks us for our service. *bawling*

That is very true..I was a military wife for 10 years, so I see things from both sides..:)

I thank you for your service, and hope that you will just quit it already!

((((sophiehunter))))

Military wives are special people, we thank you for your service and hope it will end soon!

As a scientist, I should keep a written record on my negative vibes & how they work out or don’t, instead of just toting them up in my own biased brain. *g*

Hee hee. But you won’t, will you. Any more than I do. It is a lovely thing, this retirement, when we can fly by the seat of our pants and no one can tell us not to. We’ve “EARNED it”. [Which $$$ firm had that ad? Are they still in bidness?]

Have you read it? Is it well argued?

i recommend you read journals published by the US Army like Parameters or read the counter-insurgency manual written by Petraus with input from a Harvard academic sarah Newall on the Obama transition team. The military, though focused on their core mission of coarse, is not so easy to demonize as full of leaders and troops that just drool and lust for killin’ Reading from these sources will show you that they even read themselves texts by left-liberal and even neo-marxist scholars in sociology, anthropology, political science, etc.

Of course I won’t do it. I have every intention of touting my successes and burying my failures. Why should I not indulge in the pervasive hypocrisy?

((((eCAHNomics))))) you are the best!

I lived in your world as a child, no thanks, but I wish you well.

holder - ag [since when did this become a national security position?]

since the legalization of enhanced interrogation methodstorture

*Hands a big home-made cupcake, extra frosting, thru the toobz with a smile* ;->

No one said anything about drooling or lusting for killing, that I can recall. I wish you well.

Yup. Got it via inter-library loan. The url for that book from Cambridge Univ. Press, http://www.cambridge.org/us/ca.....0521880041 Halliday is a neo-marxist international relations scholar at LSE, Cox, like Halliday, has a background as a Trotskyist.
“…[P]erhaps of greatest importance, there is no evident wish in the US - whether in the political elite in Washington, or in the Democratic Party, or in the nation as a whole - to abandon US primacy and exceptionalism. The new president of 2009 will only in some degree alter existing policies. Washington will continue to want to run, if not control, the world.”
Fred Halliday, Open Democracy

“The common sense view - shared by the chattering classes around the world - is that Bush has failed, that the war on terror has been a disaster, and that the United States should return with all speed to the multilateral system is so unnecessarily abandoned some time during 2001. Here is a book that frontally challenges all these cosy assumptions. The world and the United States have changed for ever - it insists - and the sooner the rest of us get used to the fact the better. A provocative, trenchantly argued study that leaves the reader with few places to hide.”
Professor Michael Cox, The London School of Economics

Another book I recommend by two centrists on US foreign policy, “America Between The Wars, “aims more at both the Neo-Cons and some left-liberals and radicals (Tom Hayden, for example and Arianna Huffington, The Nation magazine more generally) http://www.americabetweenthewars.com/

I just read some of the review material on amazon and it does not look like it adds much. The negative customer reviewer (I find those much more informative than the positive ones) sez to just read the AEI website.

What I was hoping the book would be is tying W’s policy into all its historical precedents to show that it’s not an outlier but part n parcel of how the U.S. has almost always behaved wrt other countries after WWII and several times before. For example, did you know that the U.S. had, and of course executed, a preventative nuclear bomb policy? Even after WWII, that was U.S. policy against USSR, until they got the bomb. Thankfully, it was never effected. But preventive war is deep into U.S. DNA. Think of all the proper govts we’ve overthrown?

Ah, heh, which world do you assume I have lived in? i am the son of a veteran of the USAF but, was schooled by a lot of neo-marxists at UCSC and still, 25+ yrs. later am aligned on the Left via Democratic Socialists of america.

:) Thank-you, but I’ve been an Ex-military wife for 14 yrs, now so it is all good…

Thanks. I’m saving it until I finish lunch, which is the last of the leftover turkey.

sophiehunter? u still here?

looks like the whack-a-mole game may top 200 after all.

u on deck, or headed to the showers?

i be goin’. caused enuf trubble tuhday. i better quit during the lull.

thanks for yer service. ;->

Dude, neo-marxists at USC, you totally gave yourself up here. No such thing, you are being dramatic, which only exists in the Drama Department, you know wannabe actor-types. “aligned on the Left via Democratic Socialists of america” I have to laugh at you….but good luck and best wishes…

Are we an Empire? Why, of coarse we are and have been since 1492 (…don’t need to read Ward Churchill or William Appleman Williams (commonly regarded as a founder of New Left anti-imperialist scholarship, A.J. Bacevich, relies on his framework the so-called, “Open Door Thesis, ” in his many books) as one of the neo-con Kagan guys who writes for The Weekly Standard relates at length in, Dangerous Nation: America’s Foreign Policy from Its Earliest Days to the Dawn of the Twentieth Century (Vintage) by Robert Kagan (Paperback - Nov 6, 2007)
As for all those foreign governments the USG/CIA has overthrown from Arbenz of Guatemala in the mid 50’s, Mossedegh of Iran from the same period, allende on 9-11-73, ah yes, but, as one who was mentored by anti-Stalinists on the Left (Trotskyists basically) I always remember that the USSR certainly was Imperialist as well as the Czechs and Slovaks I talked with in Prague in the summer of ‘79 related at length when talking about the slaughter from the Soviet tanks in Aug. ‘68 or Hungarians I’ve known who participated in the ‘56 revolt.

Adie, Adie, Adie, it has been my pleasure to know you, seriously I hope you win the whack-a-mole game and may you have no trubble tuhday or any other day….

Didn’t I type UCSC? Univ. of California at Santa Cruz. Look up the Sociology Dept. on their webpgs. full of Neo-Marxists. I had Professors and Lecturers who had been Maoist cadre in the 70’s in New Mexico and Weather Underground cadre (Rob McBridge who brought speakers from the Prairie Fire Organizing Committee who pushed M-L guerilla fronts from Africa as ones to solidarize with.)

I’m reading “1491″.

Absolutely remarkable, a compelling read.

http://www.amazon.com/1491-Rev.....140004006X

Then there’s “Guns, Germs and Steel” and “Collapse” by Jared Diamond.

Excellent.

Competing imperialists! Two wrongs don’t make a right seems like an appropriate cliche.

“solidarize”

oh dear.

i’m in over my head.

Yup, I did type UCSC, in that post to begin with. Though, there are neo-marxists and others on the academic Left(though far from the abundance at UCSC) at USC too, as Clare Spark (a former programmer at radical left KPFK-FM, part of the Pacifica Network) has related to me, since she got her Masters Degree there.)

with or without gravy?

stuffing?

i’m afraid the pie’s gone.

welcome to the circle jerk

heh, “overdetermination, ” counter-hegemonic discourses, “, “articulation of modes of production.” C’mon you can speak neo-post-modernist/post-structuralist/post-marxist!

sh-h-h. i’m quite mad you know…

you did land in the right place

mad as in angry or mad as in crazy?

omg. self-windivining. huh!

I had a friend one time, at least i thought he was my friend
For he came to me, said ”i ain’t got no place to go”
I said ”take it easy man, you can come home to my house,
I’ll get you a pillow where you can rest your head”
Took him home with me, let him in my house,
Let him drive my cadillac that i could not afford
When i found out he’d been messin’ around with my baby

You know i’m mad like al capone (i’m burnin’ up)
I said i’m mad (i’m burnin’ up)
Like sonny liston yeah (i’m burnin’ up)
You know baby i’m mad (i’m burnin’ up)
Like cassius clay (i’m burnin’ up)
You know i’m mad (i’m burnin’ up) you know i’m mad
Yeah baby, alright baby (i’m burnin’ up)
I’m mad, come on (i’m burnin’ up)

Took him home with me, introduced him to my baby,
He began to talk to her, made her think the moon was blue
You know i think i ought to tell you daddy
I’m mad, i said i’m mad with you
I don’t know what i’m gonna do to you
I might drown you, i might shoot you
I just don’t know because i’m mad

I said i’m mad (i’m burnin’ up)
You know i’m mad (i’m burnin’ up)
I don’t have to tell you i’m mad (i’m burnin’ up)
I’m mad with you yeah (i’m burnin’ up)
I said i’m mad (i’m burnin’ up)
Yeah yeah yeah (i’m burnin’ up)
I said i’m mad (i’m burnin’ up)
You know i’m mad, oh baby i’m mad
Oh i said i’m mad, you know i’m mad, oh baby i’m m

they’re still awaiting test results.

i got my first and last “D” in Government 101.

I’m so sorry if I didn’t give you the respect you have earned being a Marxist at UCSC. I try to respect all viewpoints, I thought you referred to USC which I know to be very Republican. I am just a little young to know of neo-marxists at California Universities, I meant no disrespect. I wish you well, but I don’t wish that you support guerilla groups supporting marxism today. I support developmentalism myself.

Well seems far more realistic to perceive the Cold War between the USA and USSR blocs, as for example, Marxist historian E.P. Thompson did back in the 80’s in his polemics on behalf of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmemament and European Nuke Disarm (a spin off) in the pgs. of New Left Review (see the anthology, “Exterminism and Cold war”) as one bewtween competing Imperialist Blocs, both after as much moola and power over the rest of the world as they could get short of nuclear war, both with motives a mixture of good, bad, and grey. Welcome to how the world works.

ah, heh, ahem, that was in the 80’s when i supported the Sandinistas the FMLN of El Salvador, etc. Though I had my crits then of folks in CISPES (Committee in Solidarity With the People of El Salvador, the main group in which anti-imperialist leftists grouped in) I would not, and haven’t since the late 80’s been in favor of marxist-leninist guerillas seizing power in 3rd world states or failed states. As I said above (if you’ve heard of DSA) I am essentially a social democrat/left-liberal, anti-Communist.

Heh, Circle Jerks, why they were a great punk band,
http://mog.com/music/The_Circl.....er_Of_Hits

*throws in last of the cow chips & folds*

On of my fantasies is to think what all those countries would have looked like if the U.S. hadn’t mucked about in them. All the evidence suggests they were not helped by U.S. interference, but the point was to help United Fruit, British Petroleum, etc. so I guess they were successes.

Moving several flights upstairs.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/12.....t-senator/

South Bay rules

Nice is obviously wasted on you.

way to “respect all viewpoints”.

uncle charlie’s summer camp?

hey what’d i do? they can be burned to keep warm.

Do you not get when you are being punked?

i be nice mostly.

Hon. I think Raven has, and generously shares great wisdom with those at the Lake. At least I appreciate his company. I meant no harm, and I can’t imagine him allowing himself to be punked.

How sad for you that you can’t be loved unless it is under false circumstances, and then made fun of. Really pathetic.

What on earth are you talking about?!

Just a friendly reminder folks: Please do not insult fellow commenters.

Thanks!

How sad that you cannot understand great wisdom. I hope you appreciate his company, it is all you have, pathetic again.

Go back to response 200, they were punking us and making fun of our conversations, from what I could tell not being serious. I tried to be nice but it wasn’t well received.

You’ll have to enlighten me. I don’t share the same standards in every realm as every commenter here.

Raven is often plain-spoken, to put it mildly. But he is basically a kind soul, I do believe. If you think me wrong, tell him. I can take care of myself.

Speaking of which, being unfamiliar with the link above, I finally got around to clicking to see what it referred to. No worse than what you and I would call pretty filthy, and more attuned to the late-night crowd, but not criminal. Otherwise I trust mods would not permit it to stay.

My overwhelming preference in music is Baroque, preferably on original instruments. Trevor Pinnock playing Telemann, and the like. Some of the Baroque artwork is pretty raunchy stuff by today’s standards, yet it is allowed in polite company all around the world. Should I avoid Baroque music because I don’t share their taste in paintings and statues.
Michaelangelo! Oh the Horror!

If you don’t appreciate the teasing and snark, I can understand that. Some gets pretty sharp.

For the record, I do not come to the Lake for love. That, I have in abundance within my own family.

I come to the Lake for fascinating ideas and discussions, to learn, to appreciate the company of good people. That’s not particularly sad for me. I also have friends in my own neighborhood and community. I fear you are sadly mistaken about the circumstances at play hereabouts at this particular time.

Thank you for your kind thoughts earlier, but I am not your child. I think it’s fairly safe to leave me to exist in my own world, but thank you for your attempt to help. The scolding, not so much.

you this mouthy in person?

Dear dear Sophiehunter! I was trying to be nice also. Maybe I teased too much. That is one of my frequent failings, which I try to keep under control. I certainly didn’t try to poke fun at you.

If anyone, shame on me at this confession, I was indulging yet again in trying to tap a possible troll on the shoulder to see if he really believed what he was saying on the thread, or just trying to start a row.

I apologize. I didn’t recognize him, and his politics are pretty far out for my tastes. Maybe you do know him and the conversation was genuine on both sides.

I hope you can understand.

Oh Raven! You scamp!?!

And the moon’s not even full. *sigh*

I don’t believe this thread is still active.

What the hell is a neoMarxist?

I haven’t the foggiest idea. Some kind of re-tread?

retro-decorating or -music?

Hey. Ya notice. Mr. Neo- went “poof” all of a sudden. Mebbe I was right to tap him on the shoulder. Nosey pup that I be.

P. E. A. C. E.

I apologize myself, the michael1098762001 marxist stuff confused me, as well as responses to it since then. I wish you the best and am sorry about anything unpleasant I said.

Oh my. I left for a while and came back to….
Ha ha ha ha. See, I laugh.
Adie, what can I say? I tried a little context lessoning, but you can only lead the horse to the water…regardless of listening or whispering.
It’s a tough transition from going to a late night darling to a morning star.
Ha!

The basic theory of capitalism hasn’t changed since Marx’s time and his criticism of the theory remains sound today, so what’s “new?” His theory of communism, on the other hand, stopped being relevant in the 1920’s when it became apparent that the system was unproductive and stifling of innovation.

Thanks! heh.

A handy little lesson from an aged, honest-to-gosh, former horse-trainer:

If you’re riding a horse across a stream and it starts putting the head down and pawing, even just a little, urge sweet equine partner to mosey along pronto, or you’ll find the whole kit & kaboodle of you lying down and trying to roll over in the water.

Now let’s see if this ‘un riles up the rangers. The cow patties didn’t go over so well, and hittin’ the showers…. Oh hecque. Just not my day.

I’m honored, though that dear eCAHN accepted my homemade cupcake.

Here, try one. *passes cupcake and xtra frosting thru the toobz*

No harm at-all. I think just about everyone has had this sort of thing happen, or will sooner or later.

Best to you and yours. ;->

*passes cupcake and extra frosting thru the toobz*

clear as a bell. thanks!

I’ve never trained a horse but have ridden my share. Also learned not to ride near trees with low hanging branches. Critters will go under it trying to knock ya off every time. Do love me some mountain bred Appaloosas though.

I will gladly wolf down your cupcake. (Slurp)
Do I have frosting on my chin?
I grew up in a horsey area. The horses still have the right of way. Didn’t have one of my own, but had a number of friends with several, so I got to ride often. Bare back. The horse, not me. We grew up in the foothills, below Big Tujunga canyon and would ride all day. Even as elementary aged girls.
Man, that was a long time ago. ‘Cause I wouldn’t even let my daughter ride around the block in our neighborhood by herself.
And, people wonder what’s wrong with kids these days. The live in a very different world than the one some of us grew up in.

Southern Dragon,
Remember Hansen Dam? I used to ride in the wash just above that. We’d take the horses and a dollar and go to a hamburger stand at Foothill and Osborne and eat like kings. They had a metal rack to tie the horses to.
It’s not there anymore.
But, the good news is that corner is now the closest library. So, good memories when I go there now.

Ah yes, branches of fame and fable. Never quite got dislodged by one, but had to, ahem, perform some gentle rehab. training with a cute little Arab-Welsh gelding who’d gotten in the habit of poking along slower and slower with mincing little steps and then trotting back up into line over and over on trail rides. Simple and nonthreatening in nature, but annoying when his rider was a little kid apt to have trouble staying out of same, crossing roads and such.

That lil’ stinker of a pony a-l-m-o-s-t got me, heh. The very first time I tried to urge him to walk out in nice BIG-PONY steps so-as to keep up, he never said a word or gave any hint of his thoughts, until we came to a nearby branch. He immediately tried to make a dash over to scrape me off.
I have to hand it to him: he was never cured. He either did his little mincing steps or he immediately sought the nearest low branch. Can’t win ‘em all. (no. he never caught me)

Oh the LOSS of summer fun for today’s kids! I mourn for that.
We learned so incredibly much back, ahem, awhile ago. But on our OWN time, at our own pace, and free as the wind. Minds grow. Curiosity leads to the best learning of all.

Now it feels as if family life in general, especially allowing kids the freedom to think and grow in myriads of unfettered ways. It’s just stifled.

I trained my own horse, starting when she was 2 and I was Intermediate at best. Didn’t have fancy training, but had friends who did take lessons, and we learned the signals from them. We ended up winning in dressage.

We won a Western Pleasure class, bareback, bridle being a simple loop around her jaw and single rein on one side of her neck - pull to the right, neck-rein to the left, balance the 2 signals for straight, and of course leg and weight changes were the most important of all, albeit invisible. By the end of summer, she could do two-tracking walk, trot & canter (with head, neck etc. all dressage-position-perfect); flying lead changes yadda yadda in that silly homemade getup. One of my fondest memories of all time was twd the end of the class when the stupified judge stammered, “Will she back???”
Of course she did, zip zip, straighter than anyone else in the class. They changed the rules the next year so you had to use a big clunky saddle, “proper” Western bridle and all. But we have the picture of that one show when the little Indian horse showed ‘em somethin’ different.

What a nice story. Reminds me of one late summer evening when I was maybe 12. We’d ridden the dirt roads, under the tunnel, to a horse show / rodeo. It was great fun and of course, the part I remember was the ride home. Dark night, moon, stars, tall aromatic eucalyptus trees hanging over the road. Riding double, little skinny girls on a big old horse. Just plopping along the road towards home. It was heaven.

;->

Thank you, Adie, SD, and demi, for ending this thread with good humor, horse-sense and reflections upon childhood, then and now …

Beyond that, as a dues-payin’ curmudgeon, in good standing, dammit!, let me say, in a heartfelt way:

Curmudgeons of the world unite!

You have nothing too loose!

;~D

David!
Inside every curmudgeon is a small child who still likes cookies and milk and hugs.

Cookies, milk and hugs for all!!!

The essence of the progressive ‘philosophy’, demi.

I just can’t imagine that anyone would have serious problems with such a philosophy.

I await my fellow curmudgeons’ responses.

I’ll jusr have one cookie while I wait … and how ’bout you, demi, cookies, milk, and a big hug?

;~)

Sure. Of course, DW.

Curmudgeons of the world unite!

You have nothing too loose!(sic)

(emphasis mine)

Hey demi.
I’ll take it at face value, arms’ length. I’m outta baked goods for the moment.
Kitchen’s closed for the night, but we need someone to do the dishes. You You have a clue what to expect?

Awright, but I gotta put the clean dry dishes away first, before tackling today’s mess.

I lost track in the fray. Am I the one who makes sense, or are you. Nah, you always do, so… I’ll phone my people… see what they can work up in a hurry.

troll-teasers are an under-appreciated class in today’s upscale world, especially when it’s clean and neat, and no toxic substances are spilled.

…tired…

like a loose-head prop only with less running. heh. in my dreams.

besides. i need the exercise…

P. E. A. C. E.