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	<title>Comments on: Aids Day +20: And The Band (Still) Plays On&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Nanz</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1745080</link>
		<dc:creator>Nanz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1745080</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Glad to see this post Christy.  It seems like only yesterday, but it was Jan. 1994 when my brother died of AIDS.  He was a dentist and pretty well informed on medical issues but he did not believe the new drugs coming available were going to be effective for him.  If only he could have held on a bit longer.  If only——-   god i miss him.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see this post Christy.  It seems like only yesterday, but it was Jan. 1994 when my brother died of AIDS.  He was a dentist and pretty well informed on medical issues but he did not believe the new drugs coming available were going to be effective for him.  If only he could have held on a bit longer.  If only——-   god i miss him.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744971</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 04:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;i’m not a fan of most NGOs - but the point was that there are meetings where deals are written and stuff gets put in that no one knows about because there is no transparent process for citizen review. it’s like how we got pissed off when the fisa legislation is made public less than 24 hours before it’s voted on. yes, the aclu can lobby - but that’s not the same thing as an open and transparent process. it irks me to have an opponent characterize the position of people i’ve worked with.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i guess i really should read his book. thanks for the recommendation. all i can say for now is that it will go on the list.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i’m not a fan of most NGOs &#8211; but the point was that there are meetings where deals are written and stuff gets put in that no one knows about because there is no transparent process for citizen review. it’s like how we got pissed off when the fisa legislation is made public less than 24 hours before it’s voted on. yes, the aclu can lobby &#8211; but that’s not the same thing as an open and transparent process. it irks me to have an opponent characterize the position of people i’ve worked with.</p>
<p>i guess i really should read his book. thanks for the recommendation. all i can say for now is that it will go on the list.</p>
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		<title>By: eCAHNomics</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744929</link>
		<dc:creator>eCAHNomics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744929</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;BTW, selise, the book is an easy read. It’s written in a breezy style which becomes emotional when he feels strongly in a positive or negative (e.g. quote above). It is also divided into small sections, so you can read a bit, put it down, pick it up again &amp; have section headings remind you where you are.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, selise, the book is an easy read. It’s written in a breezy style which becomes emotional when he feels strongly in a positive or negative (e.g. quote above). It is also divided into small sections, so you can read a bit, put it down, pick it up again &amp; have section headings remind you where you are.</p>
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		<title>By: eCAHNomics</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744924</link>
		<dc:creator>eCAHNomics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744924</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bhagwati points out that isn’t true, that NGO environmental groups, labor groups, human rights groups have a lot of influence via lobbying in various countries and by demonstrations such as the one you participated in. Borrow the book from the library and read it. I think what he writes about those interests may infuriate you, but also open your eyes to the fact that there is more influence than you think.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bhagwati points out that isn’t true, that NGO environmental groups, labor groups, human rights groups have a lot of influence via lobbying in various countries and by demonstrations such as the one you participated in. Borrow the book from the library and read it. I think what he writes about those interests may infuriate you, but also open your eyes to the fact that there is more influence than you think.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744920</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744920</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;the biggest issue the protesters had (i was one of them in miami for the ftaa protests in 2004) is that corporations have a seat at the table but that everyone else is kept out - no representation from labor rights, no environmentalist, so human rights advocates - nothing that resembles a democratic or representative process. that was the reason the direct action folks wanted to pull down a bit of the fence encircling the area of the talks were being held - to show symbolically that the people must be permitted inside.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the biggest issue the protesters had (i was one of them in miami for the ftaa protests in 2004) is that corporations have a seat at the table but that everyone else is kept out &#8211; no representation from labor rights, no environmentalist, so human rights advocates &#8211; nothing that resembles a democratic or representative process. that was the reason the direct action folks wanted to pull down a bit of the fence encircling the area of the talks were being held &#8211; to show symbolically that the people must be permitted inside.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744915</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744915</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;thanks tw3k. don’t think i can look tonight… but maybe tomorrow. so sad.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks tw3k. don’t think i can look tonight… but maybe tomorrow. so sad.</p>
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		<title>By: eCAHNomics</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744912</link>
		<dc:creator>eCAHNomics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744912</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bhagwati seems to be a solid citizen. I bought his book when he did a signing in 04 but didn’t read it until this year. I remember his talk as saying that trade was great but that protesters had good points that should be considered as modifications. His book is of course more complicated and he excoriates trade liberalizer interferers brutally when he disagrees with them ( like expectations that developing countries should pay the same and have the same environmental constraints as rich countries that can afford to pay more), while doing the opposite when rich countries misbehave. I don’t agree with everything he writes, but his reasoning is clear and I think he has no hidden agendas, unlike the Clintonistas.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bhagwati seems to be a solid citizen. I bought his book when he did a signing in 04 but didn’t read it until this year. I remember his talk as saying that trade was great but that protesters had good points that should be considered as modifications. His book is of course more complicated and he excoriates trade liberalizer interferers brutally when he disagrees with them ( like expectations that developing countries should pay the same and have the same environmental constraints as rich countries that can afford to pay more), while doing the opposite when rich countries misbehave. I don’t agree with everything he writes, but his reasoning is clear and I think he has no hidden agendas, unlike the Clintonistas.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744910</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744910</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;TRIPS is the opposite of free trade. it was only included in trade negotiation because that was the way for the US to force other countries to agree with a crazy policy. after there already is&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wipo.int/portal/index.html.en&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; WIPO&lt;/a&gt; (the world intellectual property organization).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i’d really like to know how many people were killed by the trade policies rubin and summers pushed during the clinton years.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;p.s. iirc bhagwati is not a batshit crazy free trader and does not advocate for destabilizing capital liberalization.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TRIPS is the opposite of free trade. it was only included in trade negotiation because that was the way for the US to force other countries to agree with a crazy policy. after there already is<a href="http://www.wipo.int/portal/index.html.en" rel="nofollow"> WIPO</a> (the world intellectual property organization).</p>
<p>i’d really like to know how many people were killed by the trade policies rubin and summers pushed during the clinton years.</p>
<p>p.s. iirc bhagwati is not a batshit crazy free trader and does not advocate for destabilizing capital liberalization.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744907</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744907</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/aug/15/wto.comment&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;stiglitz in 2003&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Drugs and intellectual property. The intellectual property regime adopted in the last round of trade negotiations - Trips - deprived millions in the developing world of access to life-saving drugs. As a chorus of researchers has pointed out, the provisions, pushed by the pharmaceutical companies, were so unbalanced that they were bad for scientific progress. Here, there has been some progress - but not enough. Provisions demanded by the US would have made it difficult for small countries to gain affordable access.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/mar/12/usa.globalisation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;stiglitz in 2004&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The second issue concerns the unbalanced intellectual property provisions (Trips) of the Uruguay round of trade talks, dictated by America’s pharmaceutical and entertainment industries. These provisions restricted countries from making generic imitations of drugs, making many critically important medicines unaffordable in developing countries.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Spearheaded by worries about Aids, activists demanded that something be done. Just before last year’s trade talks in Mexico, the US made some concessions so that it was no longer the only hold-out. In its bilateral trade agreements, however, it is demanding what is becoming known as “Trips-plus”, which would strengthen intellectual property rights further, to ensure that countries only have the right to produce inexpensive generic drugs during epidemics and other emergencies.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The global consensus, reflected in the commission report, calls for more exceptions so that, say, drugs can be made available in any case where to do so could save a life. To those confronting the prospect of death, what matters is access to life-saving drugs, not whether what is killing the person is part of an epidemic.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;bad for scientific progress too (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nature.com/wcs/b15.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1999&lt;/a&gt;):&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Stiglitz argued that a system of strong IP protection would also hamper the pace of innovation, and that knowledge will lead to greater commercial benefits if it is treated more as a public good than private property. A hawkish approach to intellectual property rights, he predicts, will encourage monopoly practices.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Stiglitz is understood to have wanted these views reflected in the World Bank’s latest World Development Report. However, sources at the bank say that Stiglitz was unable to have his way following objections from the United States.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The US government argued that member states of the World Trade Organization (WTO) have already agreed on the need for strong IP systems under the WTO’s Trade Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights agreement (TRIPs).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nonetheless, Stiglitz revealed in his talk that when he worked in the White House in Washington, both the Council of Economic Advisers and the Office of Science and Technology Policy were worried about the potentially adverse consequence of strong IPR for innovation. “If practices that [some companies] are engaged in are not against the law, then the issue is, perhaps the law should be changed,” he added.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;alternative: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/stiglitz81&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;prizes not patents&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;There is an alternative way of financing and incentivizing research that, at least in some instances, could do a far better job than patents, both in directing innovation and ensuring that the benefits of that knowledge are enjoyed as widely as possible: a medical prize fund that would reward those who discover cures and vaccines. Since governments already pay the cost of much drug research directly or indirectly, through prescription benefits, they could finance the prize fund, which would award the biggest prizes for developers of treatments or preventions for costly diseases affecting hundreds of millions of people.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/aug/15/wto.comment" rel="nofollow">stiglitz in 2003</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Drugs and intellectual property. The intellectual property regime adopted in the last round of trade negotiations &#8211; Trips &#8211; deprived millions in the developing world of access to life-saving drugs. As a chorus of researchers has pointed out, the provisions, pushed by the pharmaceutical companies, were so unbalanced that they were bad for scientific progress. Here, there has been some progress &#8211; but not enough. Provisions demanded by the US would have made it difficult for small countries to gain affordable access.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>from <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/mar/12/usa.globalisation" rel="nofollow">stiglitz in 2004</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>The second issue concerns the unbalanced intellectual property provisions (Trips) of the Uruguay round of trade talks, dictated by America’s pharmaceutical and entertainment industries. These provisions restricted countries from making generic imitations of drugs, making many critically important medicines unaffordable in developing countries.</p>
<p>Spearheaded by worries about Aids, activists demanded that something be done. Just before last year’s trade talks in Mexico, the US made some concessions so that it was no longer the only hold-out. In its bilateral trade agreements, however, it is demanding what is becoming known as “Trips-plus”, which would strengthen intellectual property rights further, to ensure that countries only have the right to produce inexpensive generic drugs during epidemics and other emergencies.</p>
<p>The global consensus, reflected in the commission report, calls for more exceptions so that, say, drugs can be made available in any case where to do so could save a life. To those confronting the prospect of death, what matters is access to life-saving drugs, not whether what is killing the person is part of an epidemic.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>bad for scientific progress too (<a href="http://www.nature.com/wcs/b15.html" rel="nofollow">1999</a>):</p>
<blockquote><p>Stiglitz argued that a system of strong IP protection would also hamper the pace of innovation, and that knowledge will lead to greater commercial benefits if it is treated more as a public good than private property. A hawkish approach to intellectual property rights, he predicts, will encourage monopoly practices.</p>
<p>Stiglitz is understood to have wanted these views reflected in the World Bank’s latest World Development Report. However, sources at the bank say that Stiglitz was unable to have his way following objections from the United States.</p>
<p>The US government argued that member states of the World Trade Organization (WTO) have already agreed on the need for strong IP systems under the WTO’s Trade Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights agreement (TRIPs).</p>
<p>Nonetheless, Stiglitz revealed in his talk that when he worked in the White House in Washington, both the Council of Economic Advisers and the Office of Science and Technology Policy were worried about the potentially adverse consequence of strong IPR for innovation. “If practices that [some companies] are engaged in are not against the law, then the issue is, perhaps the law should be changed,” he added.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>alternative: <a href="http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/stiglitz81" rel="nofollow">prizes not patents</a></p>
<blockquote><p>There is an alternative way of financing and incentivizing research that, at least in some instances, could do a far better job than patents, both in directing innovation and ensuring that the benefits of that knowledge are enjoyed as widely as possible: a medical prize fund that would reward those who discover cures and vaccines. Since governments already pay the cost of much drug research directly or indirectly, through prescription benefits, they could finance the prize fund, which would award the biggest prizes for developers of treatments or preventions for costly diseases affecting hundreds of millions of people.</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: AZ Matt</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/01/and-the-band-plays-on/#comment-1744902</link>
		<dc:creator>AZ Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;The bigotry towards victims of AIDS is still around in the bigotry towards same sex marriage.  The bigots just hide behind God.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bigotry towards victims of AIDS is still around in the bigotry towards same sex marriage.  The bigots just hide behind God.</p>
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