Rose, Welcome to the Lake.

Dahr, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.

Thank you Bev, and welcome Rose, great to be with you.

Hi Bev. Thanks for inviting me and thanks for hosting all the way from West Texas, Dahr!

Rose, I’d like to jump right in, and begin with asking you why, amidst your great job as a radio host in San Francisco, did you decide to take the leap of driving into the heartland and begin interviewing folks? What was the curiosity? What were you hoping to learn?

I grew up in Petaluma, a fairly small town about 45 miles north of San Francisco. I now live in San Francisco. After the past few elections, I got tired of media stereotypes about “red state” voters and frankly, I was depressed about what was happening in this country and around the world. I felt like the DC and NY pundits too rarely left their bubbles and they weren’t providing any answers, so I decided to seek them out myself. The main goal of the trip was to find out what issues people care about and why they vote the way they do (or not.)

One consistent thread in your book, is that you would enter situations that have been so effectively stereotyped by the mainstream media to be “conservative,” only to find people who didn’t fit the stereotype. One of these, earlier on in your book, happened at a VA hospital in Dallas, TX. You met a man there named Jack Richardson. Tell us a little about that experience.

Hello Rose, welcome to the Lake.

how did you approach your task? what were the first questions you asked? did anything surprise you?

I also got tired of preaching to the choir and listening to the left only talk to each other. I don’t know many Republicans and wanted to find out what they were thinking. I desperately wanted to get past the sound bites and have respectful conversations.

Before I left, my friends said people wouldn’t talk to me if I said I was from San Francisco, but other than the occasional “is everyone gay in SF?” question, everyone wanted to talk. I interviewed 10 people a day just about every day for six months! Only one guy said no. That’s because I knocked on his RV door while he was eating dinner.

Rose and Dahr, welcome to FDL this afternoon.

I have not had the opportunity to read the book but was curious on how you chose the title? Any play on William Least Heat Moon’s Blue Highways?

And did you in any way feel a kinship towards David Broder what with his “trips to the heartland” columns? (not meaning to be insulting in any way here – :}) )

I do know many republicans and they seem to be focused on hanging on to their money and getting only republicans elected. Rs in my personal circle are particularly averse to discussing other solutions to problems than the ones they hear on fox news. they are, sorry to say, stereotypical Bill O’Reilly IOKIYAR true believers. I would be interested to meet more moderate republicans. Hopefully you found some during your travels.

I went to church every Sunday — sometimes three services in one day! We can discuss that later, but that’s one area the media constantly portrays as “conservative” and that’s not the case.

I visited Texas, Mississippi, Oklahoma, stopped in Liberal, Kansas (couldn’t resist!), headed over to Utah to take a break to go to Burning Man, and finished the trip in Montana.

I’ve been writing about veterans issues for years. It’s such an important issue and I wanted to find out if anything has changed since the Walter Reed Scandal. If you get a chance, visit a VA hospital. As you all know, we are so far removed from the realities of war. The man in Dallas is a Vietnam Vet and a former Republican. He is using his saving to work at the Paralyzed Vets center there. He’s in a wheelchair and he drives to DC (20 hours!) to lobby Congress for money for vets. He also writes the mainstream media, but he’s never been called for an interview.

So what is the matter with Kansas? Nebraska too I might add. They seem mired in some vision of the country that never was.

Thanks Rose. That story struck me, as a veteran who is openly opposing the policies of the Bush administration certainly undermines the message the corporate media likes to put forth-that all veterans love the Bush administration. On that note, can you please talk a little bit about the obsession in the main stream media that the United States is a “center-right” country. Did you see anything to support this claim in the states you visited while working on your book?

I was constantly surprised! So many of my own assumptions were wrong. I never used the word “politics” when I approached people because like the word liberal, it’s become such a “bad” word.

I hung out in Wal-Mart parking lots (they’re everywhere), churches, malls, gun shows, movie theaters, etc…I wanted to interview people who’ve never been interviewed before. I simply asked them what they cared about. How has the town changed over the years? What do people do for work? Do you have healthcare? Does your child go to a good school? Can you make ends meet?

Several people said, “It’s not everyday that I talk about these issues, but thanks for asking.”

I think the vets know now that they have been used by the republican party like a disposable pen. Used to be that repubs believed in strong defense, which meant building and dollars for military etc. And troops used to toe the line and vote R as well. No more. Bushco has burned up that area of political support for his own personal gain in a very callous and obvious fashion.

I read Blue Highways for inspiration!

David Broder? haha! Not really…

I interviewed people in laundromats, maids working in hotels, poor people who don’t vote, etc…

Are you influenced at all by Studs Terkel? He was the master of interviewing everyday folks. (rip). I like your questions. very nonthreatening.

You mention often in your book that most people were happy to talk with you, and often expressed relief at having been granted the opportunity for their voice to be heard. We journalists on the so-called left like to pride ourselves with giving people, everyone across the political spectrum, a voice. But do we really? How could we do a better job of this?

I found many moderate Republicans! In Dallas, I met several Republicans who criticized the Bush administration, but didn’t want me to use their names for fear their neighbors would find out.

Planned Parenthood said pro-choice Republicans are some of their largest funders. I also stumbled upon a group called Republicans for Environmental Protection. They oppose offshore oil drilling, drive to recycle (no curbside recycling in many Dallas neighborhoods), and believe Bush will go down as the worst environmental president in history, yet they are never interviewed in the mainstream!

John McCain one of the lamest Republican candidates in years ran a terrible campaign and picked a loon for his running mate and still managed to get 45.8% of the vote. It seems to me there have got to be a lot of red highways that are indeed red.

Wow!! I wonder how people like the ones you interviewed will redefine the future of the GOP…that’s pretty interesting. That’s so gratifying to hear because I only hear the koolaid talk. phew!

I was hopeful that Blue Highways had played a role for you.

And thanks for not being offended by the Broder reference. :})

In Muskogee, I met a group who drives veterans to their doctor’s appointments because so many vets live in rural areas. The two most common icons on the highway was Wal-Mart and “support our troops” ribbons. Well, does the community actually support the troops by giving money and time to that organization? No. The man who runs the center said the locals never come to the fundraising lunches. It was so easy to run into veterans when we visited small towns. More than 90% said they felt they’d been lied to.

I hung out with a hardcore Republican veteran at a gun show for two hours who finally conceded that Republicans do not support the troops. He said he’s told his wife that if she puts him in a VA hospital, he will haunt her for the rest of his life. So many of the vets I met said they are not receiving the care they need. I was in Maui last week and the guy helping me with my luggage served in Iraq for two years. He said he could snap at any time. He’s working in Maui to recover.

There’s a reason why so many veterans supported Ron Paul. He’s more anti-war than most Democrats..for different reasons of course.

Rose, to Hugh’s point about McCain…did you get a sense of how these folks got their information about elections? what influenced their vote?

I knew of one guy who still thought McCain was The Awesome and was shocked!!! when I told him about McCain’s betrayal of his fellow troops through his senate votes.

Rose, did you run across any progressive bloggers in your travels?

Rose, welcome and thank you!
I live in Ohio, am from New Mexico and I ask people questions too, to get a sense of the way people feel. We’re in an area that used to have great union jobs and factories, so people are not happy with the way things are. Usually just asking “Wow, what about the gas price?” brings a whole rant.
Or “You need to get that cough seen to, it sounds like it really hurts to cough” and we start talking universal health care. And that’s Walmart clerks.
So I’m going to have to read your book!

re: the media’s obsession with the U.S. being a center-right country. What does that even mean?? I often asked people to define the word “liberal,” especially Bill O’Reilly fans and they couldn’t answer the question.

It’s important to remember that 91 million people in this country don’t vote. Whenever we stayed in hotels or motels, I interviewed the women cleaning the rooms and none of them vote! I met a lot of people who don’t vote and most of them are poor! They don’t vote because they feel like no one is talking to them or cares about them. They rarely see themselves on TV. They don’t hear their stories being told on the radio. Once John Edwards admitted to having an affair, issues of poverty disappeared. They care most about wages and healthcare. Progressive issues. If someone could tap into the poor and work on issues they truly care about, the politicians who care more about corporations than people would never be in office.

Hell, in many parts of the Mississippi Delta, they don’t even have a YMCA or after school programs. People are hurting and they feel like no one cares. I hung out in front of military recruiting centers in the Delta and interviewed kids who said the only option is working at McDonald’s or joining the military.

So true! The very well-paid private contractors also opened their eyes.

Rose, did you find that people understood or saw what the truth was in the issues or had they accepted the repub. party line as Truth.

I love Studs! What a great journalist. Even the progressive media needs to do a better job of giving the microphone to people who aren’t household names. We really need to get out of bubbles! I found so many incredible activists, many working in fairly hostile territory. Especially gay activists. This is the perfect time to build coalitions with people living in more conservative areas. They often said, “We’re here. Please tell your friends that they’re not the only ones doing the hard work.”

I went to a store today and I said to the cashier that it was really gray and bleak outside. She looked around and said, “It’s pretty gray and bleak in here.” I said it reflected the mood of the country and she just nodded.

Rose, your chapter on Mississippi is subtitled ‘A Lesson in Listening.’ Will you tell us why you chose that subtitle, and why this chapter is so poignant in your book?

We need to do a better job of doing good old fashioned journalism. We need to go out into the streets and talk to people. In San Francisco, many people don’t know what’s happening in Hunter’s Point, for example. It’s a predominantly black neighborhood that’s surrounded by toxics.

So many of us read about the plight of the poor, but we rarely venture into poor neighborhoods to actually talk to people about their realities. In Liberal, Kansas, I asked a woman in a laundromat where she gets her news. She said, “News. It don’t take a rocket scientist to know what’s going on. I don’t need to watch CNN to know how bad things are. I’m poor. I feel these policies on a daily basis.”

That was eye opening for me.

I asked everyone where they get their news. The hardcore conservatives, not surprisingly, only watch Fox and believe everything else is liberal, including university studies. We carried around what we called a “fact folder” because we found that people wouldn’t believe us when we said, “Actually, the weapons aren’t hiding in Syria,” or “Iraqis were not on the planes on 9/11.”

The Democrats, liberals, lefties, etc… said they get their news from a variety of sources: documentaries, books, online, newspapers, etc…and they all said they listen to conservative talk radio (you can’t escape it no matter how far you drive) to see what they’re up to. A man I met in Talequah, OK was carrying around a bag of conservative books filed with notes!

I never met a conservative who said, “I read the Nation to see what they’re up to.”

Rose,

I wish all Americans know what you know about America.

The Northeast, for example, is so completely into itself.

Thanks very much.

Rose, you attended many church services while working on Red Highways. Were there a couple of unexpected themes from the sermons that caught your attention, that you think may surprise people?

Yes, from rural Oklahoma to East Texas, progressive bloggers are everywhere! Just do a search.

Many are afraid to wear their politics on their sleeve. In Highland Park, a wealthy area in Dallas, I hung out in an upscale shopping area and met 5 Democrats in 30 minutes who whispered: “I’m the only Democrat in my neighborhood.”

I wasn’t prepared for the thick layer of fear I found in Texas.

I met a straight couple at the Cathedral of Hope, the largest gay and lesbian church in the world (in Dallas, TX!) who said they often have documentary parties (Michael Moore, voting issues, war, etc..) and their neighbors are afraid to come for fear the conservatives down the street will see them!

That said, I also met people who were speaking out and protesting for the first time, including 60-year old Republican women!

Exactly! My traveling companion had a tough time in the beginning because he was hearing so many ridiculous statements (weapons are hiding, Saddam was on the 9/11 planes, etc…), but by the end of the trip, he was able to have conversations without getting me in trouble! We almost got kicked out of a gun show and he was chased by security guards at a large church in Jackson, MS for flyering during the service….

I spent two hours with a group of Catholics who not only oppose abortion, but also oppose birth control. That was a tough conversation, but by the end, they admitted that poverty and unplanned pregnancies are connected. One woman even admitted that her father is a lifelong Democrat who works to eradicate poverty. This happened on a regular basis. Once you get past the sound bite, you realize the issue is a lot more complicated. This is such a problem in our world of 30-second sound bites.

I forgot to mention that people invited us into their homes without asking for a business card or proof that I was a journalist! That would never happen in San Francisco…

In the beginning, it was all about the party line. Again, once they felt comfortable and we got past the sound bites, they admitted that we’re spending way too much money on weapons, money should be taken out of politics, CEOs are making way too much compared to workers, corporations rule, etc…

After about two months on the road, I started printing out voting records. So many of the Republicans I met honestly believed their Representatives and Senators vote YES on vets issues when you know that’s not the case. Their mouths dropped when I gave them copies of the voting records.

Rose, thanks for being with us. Just ordered your book and looking forward to reading. My question is did you ever feel afraid during some of your talks with people? Did they feel hostile about your questions?

When we found a hotel in Jackson, I went outside to get some fresh air and I got to talking to the security guard. He’s in his early 60s and was just laid off from his factory job. When I asked him about his past and what he’s seen, his face was full of pain, but he didn’t want to talk about that. He asked me to focus on the positive side of Mississippi.

I really had no idea what to expect in MIssissippi. I’ve always wanted to visit the state because of the civil rights movement and I wanted to spend some time at the only clinic in the entire state that still provides safe and legal abortions. It’s still so segregated. The locals call it “Segregated on Sundays” because the churches are either all black or all white. I was welcomed with open arms in the black churches. I often wondered how I’d be received in a white church if I were black.

I wasn’t prepared for the poverty I saw in the Delta. It’s like going back in time. People are desperate for work and a living wage. We were often told to steer clear of many towns in the Delta because it’s dangerous, but we never had any problems and everyone we met wanted to talk. The history there is so rich and those stories need to be told because in 20 years or so, most of the people who fought in the civil rights movement will no longer be with us…

I’m a progressive Lutheran pastor in Kansas City, but spent 1996-2005 in the East Bay, so I’ve seen both the Left Coast and the flyover states up close.

I know there are plenty of progressive bloggers around here — I was wondering if you crossed paths with any, and which ones you might recommend.

Yes! A preacher at a Presbyterian church in Austin said when times get tough or when he’s depressed about Iraq, he watches The Daily Show!

I met an evangelical black preacher in Tulsa who studied under Oral Roberts and used to speak to Colin Powell on a regular basis. Today he preaches inclusion and welcomes atheists, gays, and Muslims in his church!

UCC churches (United Church of Christ) are all inclusive.

I loved the black churches! So many of the people I interviewed said they oppose abortion and gay marriage, but they shouldn’t be political issues. The pastors at the black churches said it’s important to remember that if it weren’t for churches, the civil rights movement never would have happened because they didn’t have access to country clubs and community centers. They said churches are getting a bad rap because of prosperity preaches — the pastors who focus on making money. I met one pastor in Jackson, MS who said his church brings in $120K just in offerings every Sunday! I’m planning to do a radio show on the tax exempt status of churches.

Progressive pastors are rarely interviewed in the mainstream. I found Republicans in liberal churches and Democrats in conservative churches. It would be nice if the media challenged our assumptions rather than reinforce them.

Church is such an integral part of everyday life in so many of the places we visited. You don’t need anything but church. There’s alcohol counseling, drug addiction counseling, relationship counseling, dance classes for your kids, singles gatherings, etc…

At one megachurch in Tulsa, a woman in a golf cart picked us up at our car because the parking lot was so huge!

Am originally from Ms – the hill side, not the delta. For some reason the delta has more poverty and I don’t know why. It’s always been that way.

Thank you, ART45.

A few of the Bill O’Reilly fans (mostly white men) were somewhat hostile when I asked them to elaborate when they said, “Liberals hate America.” Their wives would often tug on their sleeve and say, “Honey, liberals don’t hate America.”

Conservatives became somewhat angry when I asked them if they truly believe politicians care about them. O’Reilly and the right wing talk show guys do a great job of tapping into people’s fears and always seem to have someone new to hate.

By the 2nd or 3rd month, I had no problem really challenging people. TV hosts in particular need to do a better job of calling politicians on their lies or challenging talking heads when they say something outlandish. The conversation is much richer.

I forgot to mention that people invited us into their homes without asking for a business card or proof that I was a journalist! That would never happen in San Francisco…

I’ve ordered your book but haven’t received it yet, so forgive me if this is something you’ve answered there between the covers: Was there anything on your trip that hit you and made you say “Hey — what a San Francisco kind of thing to happen/do/etc.!”?

I hope you enjoy the book!

Rose, the issue of poverty is a consistent problem you encountered throughout your journey. As you mentioned earlier in this conversation, it usually tended to eclipse the so-called moral issues, like homosexuality and abortion. Is it possible for you to say poverty surpasses people’s “conservative” ideology? If so, then wouldn’t this be a leverage point upon which to find agreement with folks we typically tend to write-off as being “conservative” or “close-minded”?

In Oklahoma City, we stumbled upon a protest with people waving signs that said: “Fire Karl Rove.” They were Kucinich supporters!

Other than that, not so much…

If anything, this trip made me realize what a bubble I live in. I’ve never been inside a Wal-Mart before taking this trip! I interviewed a lot of people in Wal-Mart parking lots, including workers.

It would if someone would speak directly to them. If the economy hadn’t tanked when it did, who knows what would have happened. Did you ever think you’d be hearing mainstream corporate journalists question the fundamentals of capitalism!? Seriously, if the economy hadn’t collapsed, we’d still be talking about lipstick!

So many of the people I met who aren’t hardcore political junkies said they are sick and tired of shallow media coverage. When I introduced myself, I said: “I’m a journalist who’s traveling around the country talking to people about issues they care about. I’m doing this because I’m sick of the media focusing on issues that don’t really matter, like O.J., celebrities, etc…”

Just about every person I met said, “Me too!” It’s insulting. Let’s not forget the flag lapel question during the Obama – Cinton debate.

We shouldn’t write anyone off. There are coalitions just waiting to be built, but the powers that be would rather have us divided. I often asked moderate Republicans why they don’t speak out and raise hell. They said, “We’re not activists. We don’t take to the streets with signs.” But they exist and they’re not happy with their party.

I met pro-choice women in Mississippi who don’t know they exist and they live a few miles from each other! In Oklahoma City, we went to a meeting held by hardcore conservatives. They hate the UN; they are anti-immigrant, but they’re also anti-trade. All of their material was about worker’s rights. I said, “You could be marching in San Francisco!” They said, “No way.”

But they could. The problem is, there’s no dialog happening across party lines…

What did you learn about your own personal idea of the definition of “conservative”? How did your conception of that word shift as a result of your trip? And from that experience, what thoughts on that word, or other labels, would you like to challenge us with?

Also, it’s important to remember that not everyone owns a computer! The people I met who work two or three jobs don’t have time to log on to read blogs and very few own a computer. That’s why it’s important to get out and do on the street interviews!

Rose,

I love your comments about the richness and variability of peoples’ lives in “red states” and communities. Like Peterr, I live in a very conservative, very fundamentalist area – Wasilla Alaska. Jahr knows the place.

I can’t wait until we get back to our well-deserved obscurity here. Being in the center of a freak storm has polarized our community, but we’ll heal.

I enjoyed your Laura Flanders interview, and hope you’ve brought the richness of your travel experiences back to your radio work. Actually, I’m sure you have.

Conservatives would often say they favor small government and fiscal spending, but that’s not the current brand of conservatism we’re seeing. I tried to steer clear of the labels unless people used them. Then I would ask people to define the term and they couldn’t. What does liberal even mean? And why is so scary? Does it mean that we believe people deserve a home, food, a living wage and to be treated with respect?

I have asked many people why they are Republicans and haven’t found one who can give me an actual reason. It’s very interesting.

Hi Edward,

I met a Sarah Palin fan in Hawaii! Once we got past the initial jokes, he even conceded that she wasn’t qualified. When you step back and look at the McCain/Palin campaign, it’s truly surreal!

There is so much diversity in all parts of the country. The problem is, newspapers are shrinking and fewer and fewer people have a voice.

We didn’t get to spend much time on this, but I found gay activists everywhere I went. It’s not surprising, but we rarely hear from them. I met an environmentalist in Montana who’s thinking about leaving the conservation movement to fight for gay rights. He said he called a human rights org in DC to express interest in being their point person in Montana. They told him they don’t work in the red states and hung up. He said, if you continue treating us like this, we’ll never move forward.

Rose, we are almost out of time, unfortunately. Congratulations on your great book-and I hope it continues to be well-read in order to open up more minds across the political spectrum. For any of you who haven’t picked up a copy-grab one-it is a compelling, important, and timely book. Is there a last thought or thoughts gleaned from your experiences conducting interviews for Red Highways you’d like to leave folks with, before we sign off?

We have to continue asking questions, start building coalitions, and reach out to disenfranchised and poor voters. Actually, politicians need to give them a reason to vote.

As we come to the end of this Book Salon,

Rose, thank you for stopping by the Lake today and spending the afternoon with us discussing your book and journey.

Dahr, Thank you very much for Hosting this great Book Salon.

Everyone, if you haven’t bought Rose’s book yet, there is a link above.

Thanks all.

Thanks again Bev, and a big thanks again to you Rose! All the best!

Unfortunately, it appears that many politicians look for reasons to not have folks voting.

Thanks so much, Dahr! Be sure to pick up Beyond the Green Zone, Dahr’s excellent book if you haven’t already. You’ll have to be on my show soon.

And thanks to everyone who took part.

Demand more from the media, even the progressive media. Keep the conversation going! It’s an exciting time, but there sure is a lot of work to do…

We seem to sometimes get those responses in Alaska from DC organizations on a number of issues, including LGBT, but we’ve got some determined gay rights people up here.

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