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	<title>Comments on: Canada&#8217;s Conservatives Play Catch-22 With the Opposition</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:29:31 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: skdadl</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742435</link>
		<dc:creator>skdadl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 12:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742435</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh, for sure, Alison. I would vote for the Bloc if they’d just run in Ontario.  *grin*&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We probably scare them. Crazy anglos who support sovereigntists. Hey — that sounds like a good idea for a new party. We can never have enough parties, eh?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, for sure, Alison. I would vote for the Bloc if they’d just run in Ontario.  *grin*</p>
<p>We probably scare them. Crazy anglos who support sovereigntists. Hey — that sounds like a good idea for a new party. We can never have enough parties, eh?</p>
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		<title>By: Alison</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742434</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 12:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742434</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I wrote to Jack immediately upon hearing the news. Then my own MP. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have often urged Bloc MPs I have met to run outside of PQ so that they could form a government. They pretty smart and progressive. They laugh at me. Maybe this time?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote to Jack immediately upon hearing the news. Then my own MP. </p>
<p>I have often urged Bloc MPs I have met to run outside of PQ so that they could form a government. They pretty smart and progressive. They laugh at me. Maybe this time?</p>
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		<title>By: skdadl</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742432</link>
		<dc:creator>skdadl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 09:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742432</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ian does blog “up here.” Click on my name, and you’ll find him. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Gee, Demi — the tryptophan coma was the only joke Ian made in this post, and I’m sure it was meant affectionately.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I spent all day yesterday too giddy about this. If the Liberals and NDP just stand fast, we can do it, but Harper is playing procedural games and will probably be able to delay any non-confidence motion for a week. Write to your MPs, everyone (as long as they’re not Tories), and Dippers, give Jack an earful. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You can tell I’m much more sanguine about a coalition than Ian is. I think it will work. I have very happy memories of Liberal minorities propped up by my team, and I think this will work. Forgive me, Ian, but we need hope, and yesterday was the most fun I’ve had watching Canadian politics in years. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Godspeed to the GG.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian does blog “up here.” Click on my name, and you’ll find him. </p>
<p>Gee, Demi — the tryptophan coma was the only joke Ian made in this post, and I’m sure it was meant affectionately.</p>
<p>I spent all day yesterday too giddy about this. If the Liberals and NDP just stand fast, we can do it, but Harper is playing procedural games and will probably be able to delay any non-confidence motion for a week. Write to your MPs, everyone (as long as they’re not Tories), and Dippers, give Jack an earful. </p>
<p>You can tell I’m much more sanguine about a coalition than Ian is. I think it will work. I have very happy memories of Liberal minorities propped up by my team, and I think this will work. Forgive me, Ian, but we need hope, and yesterday was the most fun I’ve had watching Canadian politics in years. </p>
<p>Godspeed to the GG.</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742410</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 07:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742410</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Demi doesn’t like conservatives this is a Karl worthy move.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Demi doesn’t like conservatives this is a Karl worthy move.</p>
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		<title>By: DWilson</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742404</link>
		<dc:creator>DWilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 07:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742404</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Her Excellency Michaëlle Jean Governor General of Canada.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Jean is married to documentary film-maker Jean-Daniel Lafond. They have a daughter, Marie-Éden, adopted from Haiti.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As Lafond was born in France and Marie-Éden was born in Haiti, the entire vice-regal family is of non-Canadian and non-Commonwealth birth, although all were born in, and now live in, countries that belong to La Francophonie.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micha%C3%ABlle_Jean&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micha%C3%ABlle_Jean&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A new government will be formed next week&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Her Excellency Michaëlle Jean Governor General of Canada.</p>
<p>Jean is married to documentary film-maker Jean-Daniel Lafond. They have a daughter, Marie-Éden, adopted from Haiti.</p>
<p>As Lafond was born in France and Marie-Éden was born in Haiti, the entire vice-regal family is of non-Canadian and non-Commonwealth birth, although all were born in, and now live in, countries that belong to La Francophonie.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micha%C3%ABlle_Jean" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micha%C3%ABlle_Jean</a></p>
<p>A new government will be formed next week</p>
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		<title>By: DWilson</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742290</link>
		<dc:creator>DWilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 05:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742290</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The Bloc Quebecois will join in a minority government.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081128/wl_canada_nm/canada_us_politics_canada;_ylt=Ag.1WWtyOHYb2W8TkYcC2uSjbA8F&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200.....cC2uSjbA8F&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Perhaps Harper can head to Hollywood and take up where little Ronny Reagan left off. “Little Ronny Reagan, I’m surprised he went so far” Bettie Davis&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Bloc Quebecois will join in a minority government.</p>
<p><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081128/wl_canada_nm/canada_us_politics_canada;_ylt=Ag.1WWtyOHYb2W8TkYcC2uSjbA8F" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200&#8230;..cC2uSjbA8F</a></p>
<p>Perhaps Harper can head to Hollywood and take up where little Ronny Reagan left off. “Little Ronny Reagan, I’m surprised he went so far” Bettie Davis</p>
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		<title>By: Alison</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742213</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 04:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742213</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I sure hope you’re wrong. We need this government to disappear. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Globe has posted an editorial tonight slamming Harper. Even Don Martin in the National Post has condemene dHarper for utter arrogance.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sure hope you’re wrong. We need this government to disappear. </p>
<p>The Globe has posted an editorial tonight slamming Harper. Even Don Martin in the National Post has condemene dHarper for utter arrogance.</p>
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		<title>By: foxtrotsky</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742064</link>
		<dc:creator>foxtrotsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 02:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742064</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I can see how another week might cause this Liberal-NDP coalition to fall apart.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;AFAIK, there have been Liberal minority governments supported by the NDP, but never a true coalition government, in the sense that the cabinet portfolios are apportioned between parties.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What this means is that the NDP has, strictly speaking, never been in government, always in opposition.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now, the NDP starts every campaign saying that its goal is to form the government &lt;em&gt;on its own&lt;/em&gt;. Typically at some middling point in the election they come clean and say they’re trying to maximize their influence, or take the balance of power.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s something of a chicken-and-egg problem for the NDP. They’re smaller than the other parties, so people don’t see them as a potentially a governing party. But as long as people view them that way, there’s a ceiling they can’t break through.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It seems to me it’s the Liberals who benefit most from this - if nobody thinks the NDP can win more seats than the Liberals, the Liberals can argue to NDP supporters to vote Liberal, that an NDP vote splits the left. Of course, if NDP supporters do that, they ensure the NDP will remain smaller than the Liberals.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This entire dynamic changes if people begin to see the NDP as capable of government. Taking part in a coalition government - having actual cabinet ministers with portfolions - might begin to change that perception.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s a line the Liberals have never been willing to, or never had to, cross before. Including the NDP in government might mean giving up this significant structural advantage they have over the NDP.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It wouldn’t surprise me if the Liberals thought better of it, and decided to just not open up that can of worms.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see how another week might cause this Liberal-NDP coalition to fall apart.</p>
<p>AFAIK, there have been Liberal minority governments supported by the NDP, but never a true coalition government, in the sense that the cabinet portfolios are apportioned between parties.</p>
<p>What this means is that the NDP has, strictly speaking, never been in government, always in opposition.</p>
<p>Now, the NDP starts every campaign saying that its goal is to form the government <em>on its own</em>. Typically at some middling point in the election they come clean and say they’re trying to maximize their influence, or take the balance of power.</p>
<p>It’s something of a chicken-and-egg problem for the NDP. They’re smaller than the other parties, so people don’t see them as a potentially a governing party. But as long as people view them that way, there’s a ceiling they can’t break through.</p>
<p>It seems to me it’s the Liberals who benefit most from this &#8211; if nobody thinks the NDP can win more seats than the Liberals, the Liberals can argue to NDP supporters to vote Liberal, that an NDP vote splits the left. Of course, if NDP supporters do that, they ensure the NDP will remain smaller than the Liberals.</p>
<p>This entire dynamic changes if people begin to see the NDP as capable of government. Taking part in a coalition government &#8211; having actual cabinet ministers with portfolions &#8211; might begin to change that perception.</p>
<p>It’s a line the Liberals have never been willing to, or never had to, cross before. Including the NDP in government might mean giving up this significant structural advantage they have over the NDP.</p>
<p>It wouldn’t surprise me if the Liberals thought better of it, and decided to just not open up that can of worms.</p>
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		<title>By: foxtrotsky</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742041</link>
		<dc:creator>foxtrotsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 01:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742041</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ian, can the other parties not on their own move a bill which is nothing but a statement of no confidence?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Like, “It is resolved that the current government has lost the confidence of this House.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The point being that they wouldn’t have to wait for Harper to quit the game of keep-away he’s now playing; instead they’re waiting for one of the “open days” when they can propose their own bills?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, can the other parties not on their own move a bill which is nothing but a statement of no confidence?</p>
<p>Like, “It is resolved that the current government has lost the confidence of this House.”</p>
<p>The point being that they wouldn’t have to wait for Harper to quit the game of keep-away he’s now playing; instead they’re waiting for one of the “open days” when they can propose their own bills?</p>
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		<title>By: Alison</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742033</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 01:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/28/canadas-conservatives-play-catch-22-with-the-opposition/#comment-1742033</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I also think that Americans need to be reminded that the Prime Minister is not the equivalent of a president. He sits in the House. His party votes with him 99% of the time. All votes are whipped unless specifically excepted.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So if the other 3 parties want to try to change the budget, they can. But passing it will bring down the government.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s pretty dfferent.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also think that Americans need to be reminded that the Prime Minister is not the equivalent of a president. He sits in the House. His party votes with him 99% of the time. All votes are whipped unless specifically excepted.</p>
<p>So if the other 3 parties want to try to change the budget, they can. But passing it will bring down the government.</p>
<p>It’s pretty dfferent.</p>
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