Comments on: Iraqis to Vote on SOFA But What’s in the SFA? http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/ Firedoglake weblog Sat, 18 Feb 2012 04:57:00 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: lokywoky http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740368 lokywoky Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:48:04 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740368 <p>Thanks bob, I’ll check those out.</p> Thanks bob, I’ll check those out.

]]> By: bobschacht http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740365 bobschacht Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:37:53 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740365 <p>Lokywoky,<br /> For starters, see the Wikipedia entries on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moqtada_al-Sadr" rel="nofollow">Muqtada al-Sadr</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Ayatollah_Ali_al-Sistani" rel="nofollow">Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani</a>. Then, if you have time, look at the resources cited by Siun @48. And maybe throw in this piece from Juan Cole’s archives:<br /> Competing to Lead Iraq’s Shi‘a: A Guide, <a href="http://www.theestimate.com/public/051603a.html" rel="nofollow">Part 1</a>. I don’t know if “Part 2″ ever came out. [Siun, is this piece by Cole now out of date?]</p> <p>To be too brief, al-Sistani is The Teacher, and al-Sadr is The General. The later has the muscle, but not the legitimate authority; the former has the legitimate authority, but not much independent muscle. They need each other. </p> <p>Siun, have I got that right? </p> <p>Bob in HI</p> Lokywoky,
For starters, see the Wikipedia entries on Muqtada al-Sadr and Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. Then, if you have time, look at the resources cited by Siun @48. And maybe throw in this piece from Juan Cole’s archives:
Competing to Lead Iraq’s Shi‘a: A Guide, Part 1. I don’t know if “Part 2″ ever came out. [Siun, is this piece by Cole now out of date?]

To be too brief, al-Sistani is The Teacher, and al-Sadr is The General. The later has the muscle, but not the legitimate authority; the former has the legitimate authority, but not much independent muscle. They need each other.

Siun, have I got that right?

Bob in HI

]]> By: Margot http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740364 Margot Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:36:03 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740364 <p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/" rel="nofollow">New post</a></p> New post

]]> By: Siun http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740362 Siun Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:24:30 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740362 <p>Precisely, and many families are mixed.</p> Precisely, and many families are mixed.

]]> By: CTuttle http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740361 CTuttle Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:19:42 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740361 <p>The misconception that permeates our western views is the fact that Sunnis/Shiites are rigidly set in stone… We fail to realize that they are similar to the Protestant/Catholic schism in Christianity… If one is born into a Sunni family doesn’t guarantee that they will remain a Sunni later on… And vice versa, with many marrying one another too…</p> The misconception that permeates our western views is the fact that Sunnis/Shiites are rigidly set in stone… We fail to realize that they are similar to the Protestant/Catholic schism in Christianity… If one is born into a Sunni family doesn’t guarantee that they will remain a Sunni later on… And vice versa, with many marrying one another too…

]]> By: lokywoky http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740360 lokywoky Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:17:56 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740360 <p>That is a good model indeed. I just read the Cockburn article that Siun linked to - and that sounds (from that short excerpt) like a situation that al-Sadr could function very well in.</p> That is a good model indeed. I just read the Cockburn article that Siun linked to – and that sounds (from that short excerpt) like a situation that al-Sadr could function very well in.

]]> By: marshen http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740359 marshen Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:15:45 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740359 <p>I see al-Sadr setting up an Iranian sort of government where he is the supreme religious leader of Iraq, but still having a president and various other ministers to administer the government and provide services to the people. I don’t see him taking a day to day role like Malaki, but being the overseer of the whole operation.</p> I see al-Sadr setting up an Iranian sort of government where he is the supreme religious leader of Iraq, but still having a president and various other ministers to administer the government and provide services to the people. I don’t see him taking a day to day role like Malaki, but being the overseer of the whole operation.

]]> By: Siun http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740358 Siun Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:11:17 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740358 <p>BTW, Digg is open, just not updating on the page.</p> BTW, Digg is open, just not updating on the page.

]]> By: Siun http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740356 Siun Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:06:19 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740356 <p>yep - wouldn’t it be great if we had genuine info on what was and was not being agreed to … ha</p> yep – wouldn’t it be great if we had genuine info on what was and was not being agreed to … ha

]]> By: bobschacht http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740355 bobschacht Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:06:00 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/iraqis-will-hold-vote-on-sofa-%e2%80%93-will-the-us-agree/#comment-1740355 <p>Siun,<br /> I appreciate your understanding of the Iraqi situation on the ground. </p> <p>Maliki is in a rough spot. How can he survive as a leader of influence without the U.S. propping him up?</p> <p>The main question seems to be whether Maliki’s Iraqi army can grow and mature fast enough to control al-Sadr’s militia without U.S. air support? </p> <p>I remain skeptical about the viability of U.S. forces sitting on selected bulls eye’s around the country. Yes, I know, someone explained to me how with modern military technology, bulls eye’s can be a safe place to live, but hey, even the Green Zone gets an occasional mortar, and the Baghdad Airport is still not safe for normal commercial travel, last I heard. </p> <p>Bush is just trying to push off the awkward departure scenes into the Obama administration, so that he (Obama) can be blamed for what happens. </p> <p>Bob in HI</p> Siun,
I appreciate your understanding of the Iraqi situation on the ground.

Maliki is in a rough spot. How can he survive as a leader of influence without the U.S. propping him up?

The main question seems to be whether Maliki’s Iraqi army can grow and mature fast enough to control al-Sadr’s militia without U.S. air support?

I remain skeptical about the viability of U.S. forces sitting on selected bulls eye’s around the country. Yes, I know, someone explained to me how with modern military technology, bulls eye’s can be a safe place to live, but hey, even the Green Zone gets an occasional mortar, and the Baghdad Airport is still not safe for normal commercial travel, last I heard.

Bush is just trying to push off the awkward departure scenes into the Obama administration, so that he (Obama) can be blamed for what happens.

Bob in HI

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