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	<title>Comments on: FDR knew that high wages are good&#8230; and we should too.</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/</link>
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		<title>By: texasaggie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740496</link>
		<dc:creator>texasaggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740496</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A thought on outsourcing of jobs to the lowest common denominator is that with the increased cost of transportation, there has to be a much bigger difference in wages to make that feasible.  At the moment the price of oil is down, but this is not a long term trend.  It is merely a blip in the road to ever higher fuel costs as we pass peak oil.  Also, governments can use their regulatory capacity to structure taxes and other regulations to encourage production in country. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; What the gilded people who are claiming that workers are responsible for the problem are missing is exactly why Henry Ford gave his workers a 20% raise above standard wages at the time.  If your workers are making money, then they can buy your product.  Raising Ford workers’ wages put pressure on other people to follow so that more people were able to live a middle class life.  When on the other hand, the gilded people suck off all the profits for themselves (as has been occurring in the last several decades), then normal people don’t have the money to buy stuff so the whole system goes to hell.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A thought on outsourcing of jobs to the lowest common denominator is that with the increased cost of transportation, there has to be a much bigger difference in wages to make that feasible.  At the moment the price of oil is down, but this is not a long term trend.  It is merely a blip in the road to ever higher fuel costs as we pass peak oil.  Also, governments can use their regulatory capacity to structure taxes and other regulations to encourage production in country. </p>
<p> What the gilded people who are claiming that workers are responsible for the problem are missing is exactly why Henry Ford gave his workers a 20% raise above standard wages at the time.  If your workers are making money, then they can buy your product.  Raising Ford workers’ wages put pressure on other people to follow so that more people were able to live a middle class life.  When on the other hand, the gilded people suck off all the profits for themselves (as has been occurring in the last several decades), then normal people don’t have the money to buy stuff so the whole system goes to hell.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740407</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740407</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“I asked a 32 year old coworker, this week, if he had ever heard the phrase “leading economic indicators.” He had no idea what I was talking about. When I explained that there was a time when the evening news reported durable goods orders and machine tool sales he was genuinely beffudled. Very sad indeed.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For the last six years the “News” spent more time announcing Brittney’s latest meltdown, and stuff about Paris Hilton’s new “accessory” pet. That is, when they weren’t pushing the miracles of home ownership and infinite credit.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Though I must admit the economy is now newsworthy. And they are somewhat more “honest” about it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“I asked a 32 year old coworker, this week, if he had ever heard the phrase “leading economic indicators.” He had no idea what I was talking about. When I explained that there was a time when the evening news reported durable goods orders and machine tool sales he was genuinely beffudled. Very sad indeed.”</p>
<p>For the last six years the “News” spent more time announcing Brittney’s latest meltdown, and stuff about Paris Hilton’s new “accessory” pet. That is, when they weren’t pushing the miracles of home ownership and infinite credit.</p>
<p>Though I must admit the economy is now newsworthy. And they are somewhat more “honest” about it.</p>
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		<title>By: ekunin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740405</link>
		<dc:creator>ekunin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740405</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You must understand the reciprocal psychology behind hierarchy. The low ranked like the irresponsibility of following orders. The high ranked like the idea of thinking they know what they are doing. The idea that some humans are “better” than others, a comparison which is the point of hierarchy, is irrational. We are different, no two of us are alike, but we share a humanity which means we die in the end. Most likely nothing we do in this life matters in the next. The rich take what they can get, despite the devout believing rich men have the same chance of getting into heaven as a camel has of going through the eye of a needle. The wealthy like putting inferiors through their paces.  Inferiors think they deserve inferiority. That is why calls to organize through the internet and contemplate actions to change things fall on deaf ears. Partly inferiors dream someday of being superiors, but mostly they are too frightened to try to break the chains that bind them. Marx not withstanding, workers of the world are not about to unite.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You must understand the reciprocal psychology behind hierarchy. The low ranked like the irresponsibility of following orders. The high ranked like the idea of thinking they know what they are doing. The idea that some humans are “better” than others, a comparison which is the point of hierarchy, is irrational. We are different, no two of us are alike, but we share a humanity which means we die in the end. Most likely nothing we do in this life matters in the next. The rich take what they can get, despite the devout believing rich men have the same chance of getting into heaven as a camel has of going through the eye of a needle. The wealthy like putting inferiors through their paces.  Inferiors think they deserve inferiority. That is why calls to organize through the internet and contemplate actions to change things fall on deaf ears. Partly inferiors dream someday of being superiors, but mostly they are too frightened to try to break the chains that bind them. Marx not withstanding, workers of the world are not about to unite.</p>
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		<title>By: lokywoky</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740404</link>
		<dc:creator>lokywoky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740404</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here is a minor example from a few years ago.  Here in my small town (pop about 55,000) our city council had someone do a study on what it costs versus benefits of repairing all the potholes in our city streets. (Our city was known as the pothole capital of the state at the time).  This was a number of years ago so the figures aren’t as relevant in actual terms as they are for comparisons.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They said we could leave the potholes.  That wouldn’t cost the City anything in actual cash.  However, it contributed to damages to automobiles and their tires of about $365,000 per year!  That in turn led to missed days of work, lower productivity among workers, and in some cases, actually eroded the tax base.  The problems with the streets also led to decisions by new companies not to either locate here or build here because of the ‘infrastructure’ problems - an estimated loss of about $127,000 in city revenue per year.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Cost to fix the potholes?  $86,700.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Infrastructure - yes!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis?  Instead of repairing the bridge at a cost of maybe $20-35 million, got a whole new bridge for $587 million.  Plus the cost of lawsuits from the killed people and injured ones as well.  Plus the cost of re-routing all the traffic in lost time, wages, fuel both gas and diesel, wages for professional drivers, and Who knows what else.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We have reportedly 137 more bridges that are just like that, in some cases worse, and it is just a matter of time before one of them collapses. And in some cases it would be better to build a brand new state of the art bridge like this than repair the old one that is probably overstressed by traffic loads 3-10 times the design capabilities.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Infrastructure - yes!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My list for investment and good returns:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Roads and Bridges&lt;br /&gt;
Rebuild electrical grid using newest technology&lt;br /&gt;
  along with this - build in better more far-reaching broadband capability&lt;br /&gt;
    use undergrounding of most wiring into existing right-of-ways.&lt;br /&gt;
Rebuild our rail system&lt;br /&gt;
  Double rail systems so passenger trains have a dedicated rail separate from freight.&lt;br /&gt;
  Use high-speed rail for intracity travel in heavily congested and heavily traveled corridors (Boston, NYC,DC) (Houston,Ft Worth,Dallas) for example.&lt;br /&gt;
  School construction.  Rebuild schools that are more than 50 years old (we have thousands of these!) using green technology.&lt;br /&gt;
  Rehab schools that are less than 50 years old - including expansions if they have ‘trailerhouse’ classrooms on campus&lt;br /&gt;
  Modernize major ports, including set up to power docked ships from land to reduce diesel exhaust&lt;br /&gt;
  Help with construction of wind farms, solar farms, algae farms, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
  Help with decommissioning old nuke plants (like Humboldt Bay in California)&lt;br /&gt;
  Begin ‘Medicare for All’ by fully funding SCHIP and providing a mechanism whereby kids never age out of the system and each year reduce the age by one year of those eligible at the upper end.  The gap will close over a few years - allowing transition for the insurance companies out of the business and allowing the financing to keep up with the new added population (yes everyone pays premiums for this)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s my list.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a minor example from a few years ago.  Here in my small town (pop about 55,000) our city council had someone do a study on what it costs versus benefits of repairing all the potholes in our city streets. (Our city was known as the pothole capital of the state at the time).  This was a number of years ago so the figures aren’t as relevant in actual terms as they are for comparisons.</p>
<p>They said we could leave the potholes.  That wouldn’t cost the City anything in actual cash.  However, it contributed to damages to automobiles and their tires of about $365,000 per year!  That in turn led to missed days of work, lower productivity among workers, and in some cases, actually eroded the tax base.  The problems with the streets also led to decisions by new companies not to either locate here or build here because of the ‘infrastructure’ problems &#8211; an estimated loss of about $127,000 in city revenue per year.  </p>
<p>Cost to fix the potholes?  $86,700.</p>
<p>Infrastructure &#8211; yes!</p>
<p>That bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis?  Instead of repairing the bridge at a cost of maybe $20-35 million, got a whole new bridge for $587 million.  Plus the cost of lawsuits from the killed people and injured ones as well.  Plus the cost of re-routing all the traffic in lost time, wages, fuel both gas and diesel, wages for professional drivers, and Who knows what else.  </p>
<p>We have reportedly 137 more bridges that are just like that, in some cases worse, and it is just a matter of time before one of them collapses. And in some cases it would be better to build a brand new state of the art bridge like this than repair the old one that is probably overstressed by traffic loads 3-10 times the design capabilities.</p>
<p>Infrastructure &#8211; yes!</p>
<p>My list for investment and good returns:</p>
<p>Roads and Bridges<br />
Rebuild electrical grid using newest technology<br />
  along with this &#8211; build in better more far-reaching broadband capability<br />
    use undergrounding of most wiring into existing right-of-ways.<br />
Rebuild our rail system<br />
  Double rail systems so passenger trains have a dedicated rail separate from freight.<br />
  Use high-speed rail for intracity travel in heavily congested and heavily traveled corridors (Boston, NYC,DC) (Houston,Ft Worth,Dallas) for example.<br />
  School construction.  Rebuild schools that are more than 50 years old (we have thousands of these!) using green technology.<br />
  Rehab schools that are less than 50 years old &#8211; including expansions if they have ‘trailerhouse’ classrooms on campus<br />
  Modernize major ports, including set up to power docked ships from land to reduce diesel exhaust<br />
  Help with construction of wind farms, solar farms, algae farms, etc.<br />
  Help with decommissioning old nuke plants (like Humboldt Bay in California)<br />
  Begin ‘Medicare for All’ by fully funding SCHIP and providing a mechanism whereby kids never age out of the system and each year reduce the age by one year of those eligible at the upper end.  The gap will close over a few years &#8211; allowing transition for the insurance companies out of the business and allowing the financing to keep up with the new added population (yes everyone pays premiums for this)</p>
<p>That’s my list.</p>
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		<title>By: neurophius</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740403</link>
		<dc:creator>neurophius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740403</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;clicking on my link will take you there as well as to MSNBC and CNN&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>clicking on my link will take you there as well as to MSNBC and CNN</p>
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		<title>By: T-Bear</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740402</link>
		<dc:creator>T-Bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740402</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;BBC reports:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mumbai rocked by deadly attacks&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7751160.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7751160.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BBC reports:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Mumbai rocked by deadly attacks</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7751160.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7751160.stm</a></p>
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		<title>By: neurophius</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740401</link>
		<dc:creator>neurophius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740401</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/2060&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;terrorist attack in India&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/2060" rel="nofollow">terrorist attack in India</a></p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740400</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740400</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good answer, Stirling!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Aloha,&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good answer, Stirling!</p>
<p>Aloha,<br />
Bob</p>
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		<title>By: nahant</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740399</link>
		<dc:creator>nahant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740399</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just plain old GREED. Greed has been &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;in&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; since Ronnie Raygun and is just now reaping the profits of such unrelenting Greed! Thats why they are screaming for the BAIL out at the tax payers expense! As you said they have the deck stacked. Unless Obama can change the entire deck we the people will be in soup lines sooner than we think!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just plain old GREED. Greed has been <em><strong>in</strong></em> since Ronnie Raygun and is just now reaping the profits of such unrelenting Greed! Thats why they are screaming for the BAIL out at the tax payers expense! As you said they have the deck stacked. Unless Obama can change the entire deck we the people will be in soup lines sooner than we think!</p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740398</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/26/fdr-knew-that-high-wages-are-good-and-we-should-too/#comment-1740398</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There’s a really important and (arguably) related post over at 538 by Nate Silver, “&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/obamas-agenda-difference-between.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Obama’s Agenda &amp; The Difference Between Tactics &amp; Strategy&lt;/a&gt;” that every Firepup needs to read. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And please don’t neglect to follow the link on the “Overton Window.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is an important contribution, IMHO.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There’s a really important and (arguably) related post over at 538 by Nate Silver, “<a href="http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/obamas-agenda-difference-between.html" rel="nofollow">Obama’s Agenda &amp; The Difference Between Tactics &amp; Strategy</a>” that every Firepup needs to read. </p>
<p>And please don’t neglect to follow the link on the “Overton Window.”</p>
<p>This is an important contribution, IMHO.</p>
<p>Bob in HI</p>
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