The executive compensation debate is beyond tiresome and beyond stupid. It's not hard to rein in executive compensation, all you have to do is decide what the maximum pay you want someone to be able to receive is and tax most of the rest of it away. The simplest thing is to just count all income equally, tax it all at the same rate, don't allow deductions beyond a certain level (50K or so) and tax all income above, say 1 million at 90%, 95% for all income above 5 million. Don't allow too much income deferral and there you go. Slap on some "in kind" rules for corporations (yes, if your corporation pays for your car, that's salary) and while there will always be loopholes, you'll still rein in the worst excesses.
Yes, this will effect a few other people, such as sports celebrities. Oh well. Yes, the Chamber of Commerce, reliable right wing hacks that they are, will scream about how the best people need ridiculous salaries, but if the "best people" are the folks who brought us this economic disaster maybe what we need is for companies to be run by second raters who don't see their job as looting the place to the ground in order to earn the highest bonuses.
And that's the bottom line. As long as executives know that in 5 years they can make so much money they'll never need to work again, they won't take care to make sure that their business is long-term viable. Rule #1 of designing incentive systems isn't "more money equals better performance" it's "match incentives to the behaviour you want." If you want an economy that doesn't have bubbles, don't pay people for creating bubbles, pay them for long term steady growth, paying high salaries and creating new jobs.
The best, simplest thing Obama could do to make the economy work for everyone is make sure that the executive class doesn't have incentives to create bubbles and does need to keep their jobs for life, just like ordinary people. Once they do, they'll suddenly be much less likely to say "hey, this is really really risky, but who cares, I'll be rich and the government will pick up the tab".
The economy that worked best for ordinary people in America was the 50's and 60's economy, when marginal tax rates on the rich were the highest. That wasn't coincidence, and a belief in doing what works and in pragmatism would mean looking at was has worked in the past and doing it.
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thanks, Ian
Digg
Why is this so hard to understand for the lower 95 percent income Americans?
Maybe it’s not…but most of the Senators and Congresscritters are in the upper 95%
So what about the Dollar salary guys like Steve Jobs gets to avoid taxes and the tons of stock taxing income equally should take car of that dodge right?
I just want to be sure.
They understand but can’t do anything about it.
Hallelujah, amen, and tax the bastards till they bleed!
Until the ultra-wealthy don’t also control the entire public communications infrastructure, such a (recommendable) move would result in a gigantic propaganda onslaught that would cost any politician his or her public support.
I would like to see antitrust laws applied to some of these megacorporations, particularly the media megacorporations. You’ll get a propaganda reaction there, too, but it can be easily framed as a selfish reaction by the self-interested media empires.
Bust up the media conglomerates, then when you take other steps, you can expect to have a more independent media with a range of responses more reflective of the population as a whole, rather than a concerted pro-corporatist propaganda blitz.
Dayam, Ian that makes too much sense…! Hence, it’ll never happen…!
Bring on the tumbrels! And the 95% tax bracket - that will hurt them worse. Funny how those corporations in Japan and Europe seem to be able to find people at least as competent for a fraction of the price (roughly 40 x average worker compensation vs >400 x average worker compensation).
Right On bust up the monopoly! Antitrust Law!
Toyota’s CEO makes less than GM’s
but, but - I’m planning to make several million next year…
They need to learn that extremely high taxes are the preferable alternative to “off with their heads.”
I left ya a Q downstairs…
Ain’t gonna happen. Have only one political party in the U.S. and that is a communist party, with the govt confiscating labor from poor & middle class to give it to the rich.
http://antiwar.com/radio/2008/11/26/will-grigg-7/
My sentiment exactly !
yeah, he’s driving up from Huntsville (northern Alabama).
We really do need much more vigorous enforcement of antitrust laws across the board. One of the biggest problems our economy faces right now is too much consolidation. Unregulated oligopolies are pretty much just as bad as unregulated monopolies. A return to fiscal sanity in financing of corporations would help. The excessive emphasis on shareholder return and the insane expectation of ever increasing profits have been a big part of the destruction of the American economy and the corporate race to the bottom. I am old enough to remember when it wasn’t that way.
A lot less.
I think some of them would prefer that to “off with their compensation.”
Yeah, me too. I remember when getting ANY dividend was considered a cause for celebration. These thugs think that if they got one this month, next month it has to be even bigger. And if it isn’t, something is wrong.
Well, that is exactly what IS wrong!
… a lot, lot, less …
If we are lucky, Americans in the middle of the century will look back on this as an obscene gilded age that they escaped through progressive changes, especially taxation and redistribution. If we are not lucky, serfs living in America in 2050 won’t have the capability to look back on our own era at all.
You miss the point, which is to make sure corps get too big to fail, at which point govt can usurp taxpayers’ resources for corp state.
I want the market to take off like it did after FDR created the New Deal. Another four years of Bush and the Great Depression will be called the good ole days!
The market goes up more under Dems than GOP Presidents. Just what do they teach about history and the economy in their private schools?
But corps get more taxpayer resources under Rs.
There is massive fraud at the highest levels of these bonus babies.
Criminals don’t work for wages.
But then they blow the money on Ponzai schemes!
Heh, The Crisis in Logos…
(I left you a note at the end of downstairs.)
Not in the mood to talk about $$ just at the moment.
*g* Am making turkey (looking, not tasting) nut cups right now.
Great post, Ian. The “elites” are even reacting to the outrages. Today’s Tom Friedman, responding to stories about CitiGroup:
After the execs enrich themselves.
Tax the bastards! Tax them to the point that their children will actually have to go out and get an education and then enter the work force like everyone else. Enough of the gilded aristocracy where wealth insures a position of power and priviledge in the U.S.. Anyone that sheds tears for these pin striped gangsters is a fool.
thanks demi.
Nut cups?
I saw a chair the other night with them…
;~P
what you’ve done ian is propose what I have been saying for some time;
rescind the reagan tax increases (he did not lower taxes he raised them)
rescind those reagan tax increases to the same rates they were before he raised them and we have the tax system you propose today
and that is the way this needs to be framed;
“contrary corporate propaganda, reagan did NOT lower taxes he raised them more then any peace time president before him, we will lower the tax rates back to those they were before reagan raised them and the economy will thrive”
the neo-cons will go balistic
I think of 1.5 is probably where the 90 percent break should be though
You’re most welcome.
Along with this, of course, we need to raise the Paris Hilton Tax to 99% on estates over five million dollars. No reason anyone should be able to inherit anymore than that from dear dead dad.
What do they teach? That they are the children of priviledge and elites destined by God to rule over and exploit the masses.
This is excellent framing, of course.
It’s the same framing I use when discussing my hoped-for SCOTUS-packing, which I suggest Obama name after William Rehnquist, since he always complained about the horrid workload the Supremes had.
I knew that was an invitation of sorts. Ha.
But, I really am. Been doing ever Thanksgiving for the whole family since I was young. Lotsa Nut Cups! Well, there’s m&m’s and candy corn in them too!
There are at least 946 millionaires/billionaires who would agree with you, the group that signed a petition to not change the estate tax. Included Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and Bill Gates’ father if I remember right. They said they and their kids didn’t need the money and the country couldn’t afford not to tax their estates.
We could make a bold, truly conservative move and return the maximum marginal tax rate to what it was under Eisenhower.
In response to pay that hasn’t kept up with inflation, the Supremes have lowered their caseloads in recent years.
Actually, just return the top marginal rate to Eisenhower levels and treat ALL income (including inheritances) the same.
I would also like to see exec’s have to produce 1, 5 and 10 year business plans for success. The current looking at their business model quarter by quarter…….
Would like to see a Teddy Roosevelt trust busting going on too….
Lotsa Nut Cups!
Now that absolutely screams for comments…! ;-)
the other problem is that a lot of the CEO class get paid in stock options, which make them only look to increase their short term stock value instead of the companies overall health. in that case you’ll need to limit the stock holdings of non-founders and increase the the capital gains tax rate on those stocks
The estate tax cut is for ONE family and One family only…. the Waltons…..
Obama said that he planned to tax the wealthy at the same tax rates that they paid under Reagan. That was clever jargon. The rates probably varied over Dutch’s eight-year labor-busting period. But I digress. The point is that Obama is not talking about anything like the common-sense plan that Ian proposes. Now Obama seems to be lead by the rich talking heads.
Now Obama considers keeping Dubya’s tax rates until they expire. Jim Cramer and the entire chorus is singing - don’t raise taxes on anybody. Its a bad bad time to raise taxes.
They have a choice. They can either go along with paying their fair share or eventually an aroused citizenry will just take it from them evening the playing field and leaving them as nothing more than 3rd world paupers. It’s their choice.
CT speaks the truth, but maybe we’re reaching the point (short of taking to the streets with torches and pitchforks) where sensible people, making sense, will make some headway.
There may be, after all, a Gordian Knot to cut through. Good essay, Ian!
Is this where you expand SCOTUS to 11 or 13 justices? And then let Obama pick all the new ones? Whoooeeeee!
Until you’ve had my M&M + Cashew turtles, you ain’t been there.
IIRC, it was the Waltons solely behind the repeal of the Estate tax…!
Obama is the highest elected official of the plutocracy and thus will obey the first and only rule of the plutocracy, always protect the plutocracy.
((( katymine )))
They measure success as how much moolah they take away from their enterprise …
I would like all those prestigious Business schools that produce the Captains of Industry, be made to explain what’s wrong with their courses that create these Pirates and how they will teach differently.
*sigh* I owe ya a cold one!
Btw, It’s awesome to see ya here again! How’re ya doing, M’dear! *g*
With all the outrage over ridiculous levels of executive compensation, I wonder why there has been no focus on the non-existent oversight exercised by the Boards of Directors at the various failing business entities? Policy in a corporation is set by the Board– were they sleeping when their CEO’s and VP’s were awarding themselves $47 million dollar bonuses while their firms went deep into the red? Who the hell was minding the store on the Board?
IIRC, it was them and I believe 5-6 other families in similar “straights.”
The Waltons…don’t get me started. Those people need to be strung up for treason - selling our country to the Chinese!
Simply confirms my longstanding evaluation of the value of an MBA.
Turtles! I haven’t had one of those for years & years.
On the other hand, I made myself ginger snaps today and pigged out on them, so perhaps I can wait for awhile for turtles.
The CEOs of other corporations where these CEOs are on the board.
The problem with boards of directors for these huge corporations is that they are mostly made up of ‘flagheads’ - famous/rich/celebrity people looking to pad their resumes and the company looking to flaunt their ‘connections’. The directors get to say “I’m on the board at blah blah blah” and the company gets to use the celebrity in their advertising or something. Most of them know less than a hole in the ground about the business they supposedly are running. The people who actually run the company is the CEO, the CFO, and their assistants.
Discharged yesterday afternoon….. dropped 13 lbs in water weight since Sunday.
My idea if heaven….. my own pillow top bed, high thread count linen and pillows… Ahhhh….
Heh, whatever happened to their big ‘Made in the USA’ campaign they had during the late ’90s…?
*gentle reminder*
fantasy violence will result in your comment being moderated
Somewhere along the way, I think some people in our country have come to believe that they are citizens of the world first, and citizens of this country only in a rah-rah for the team kind of way.
Somehow, the rules don’t apply to them.
They don’t get it that people sacrificed work and money for them, and they must do the same in turn.
((((katymine)))) enjoy your own pillow & sheets.
That died with Sam Walton. Apparently his ‘community values’ did NOT pass on to his greedy moribund chillens’. Hummmph!
the Campbell’s Soup folks were also involved and several other family fortunes too IIRC
I Like Ike’s Tax Rate. Yeah!
Sorry!
Ain’t no place like “Home Sweet Home”…! How’re ya feeling, tho? Like death warmed over…? :-(
Katy, i love high-count cotton sheets too–I’m so glad you’re home!
From The Republican Dictionary:
MBA (abbrev.) Moneygrubbing Bogus Academic.
you sayin’ we are all the same?
“the very idea”
Strung up as in silly string? *g*
Wal-mart has benefited from free advertising on the eleven o’clock Orlando local news more than once this week. It seems that Wal Mart’s Black Friday sales plan was at first a big secret (that was newsworthy). Then, when the sale items were revealed two days later, that was also important news for the common
citizenconsumer to be made privy.It seems that Wal mart is the good guy in all this. They’ve got cheeeeeeeep prices for all the broke-ass holiday consumers! /s
nothin’ better,
glad u r n ur own sweet bed.
Heh. I did a command performance at Wal-Mart HQ back in the day when they were a real corp. Was probably around mid-80s. Meeting was with David Glass, iirc, who was CFO at the time. Linoleum floor, cubicle.
Having grown up in eastern Oklahoma, right next to the Walton heart of darkness, I can testify that ol’ Sam was every bit a greedy fuck as his useless offspring. Difference was he was a Bircher-lite nativist as well.
The more they charge for hospital bed, the worse the bed gets.
{{{{{katymine}}}}}
metaphorical silly string, of course :)
Generally dumber than a stump and with far less useful knowledge. Worst performers in my intro classes are always Business majors.
We indulge in Turtles and Belgian Chocolates only at Christmas … too many calories for year- round consumption.
Yeah, and the almost always get really sweet deals from the communities where they build. Other stores have to do all of the following: submit traffic plans, Environmental Impact Reports, pave streets leading to their store, put in sewers and water and electrical stuff, put up traffic lights, pay permit fees and development fees, etc.
WalMart, not so much. Usually the town winds up paying for all that crap, the business that were there all close, and the town winds up almost bankrupt from all the lost tax revenue AND paying for all of WalMart’s infrastructure demands.
Your own sweet way
Ol’ Sam was one cheap ass bastard, no question. Mean as a rabid wolverine as well.
Still weak but puttering around, fixed dinner tonight…. oven food and took a real full shower this afternoon….. we are having my famous pot roast for thanksgiving…… had my fill of turkey hospital food….. Miss Dog follows me around the house, even into the bathroom…. doesn’t want to loose me again…
Typically a business degree and 95 cents will buy you a beer.
Heh, that’s why they’re Business majors…! Bwhahaha…! ;-)
My TX friend gave me some really good pecans when I visited her in July. She meant for me to make a pecan pie. But pie crust intimidates me. Maybe I’ll look for a recipe for pecan turtles instead.
Eggzackly!
On your post earlier, someone called another commenter a nasty, sexist term. Did someone take that down? It was still up last time I checked…jus’ sayin’
Never had the “pleasure” of meeting ole Sam. *g*
You lost me at Pecan Pie … *g*
Yeah, well they all need some lessons in humility, kindness, and personal responsibility (my favorite!)
Me neither, but he was legend in the region.
ET, Are Alaskans getting a kick out of the Turkey Slaughter Speech?
So cheat - buy a frozen crust. Get a good one, and put it in your own pie dish and have fun with the filling. No one will know as long as you hide the box!
Well, maybe I’ll give it a try. How difficult can pie crust be? Must be easier than eCAHNomics??
i haven’t posted since yesterday and am not sure what you are talking about
So does anyone think that our congresscritters would pass Ian’s tax rate?
Will our 111 congress have less millionaires that might consider true tax reform?
Don’t overdo it M’dear! Is there anybody around to give ya hand or two? Your dog reminds me of my dog following around the missus after she got home from the hospital after a three night stay… Keep tripping her too… Stuck to her like glue! ;-)
Great post. Thanks. Hate to be the grammar police, but it’s rein in, not reign in.
I’m not sure whether that’s the case in my intro class. It is HUGE - between 115 and 200 students. Seldom does a student come to me with a question that intrigues me, and I don’t ask the student what her or his major is. As none has ever said he was a business major, and business majors sometimes have to take my GER class, I can gather that they are an incurious lot, at least.
If any of you were following the terrorists attack in Mumbai, apparently they have taken an Israeli family hostage.
Indian Forces are attempting to free them …
would a little whipped cream snap u outta it?
I thought that was hilarious, growing up on a farm and helping my grandmother kill the chicken we were going to eat for dinner that night. And the steer that fed our family all winter long.
The part that was really hilarious was the blurry thing over the turkey!
Everyone kept saying Palin didn’t notice. Sure she did. Killing the animals that we eat is part of life, and she’s used to it (moose hunger, wolf killer, etc) so she didn’t think anything of it. Naturally.
LOL … I completely agree …
Oh, yeah. We’ve never gotten our turkey from that farm - the owner’s brother is a longtime nemesis of mine - but I imagine they will sell out this year.
thanks, fixed.
… depends on where you put it … *g*
((( Elliott ))) … too hard to resist that opening …
Yeah, much ado over nothing, imo. But then I grew up killing chickens for food and think nothing of it. Bad imagery though.
I only know because of the huge numbers who come in to switch to credit/no credit or to drop the class. Mine enrolls about 230 every semester.
Sorry Suz, it was Marcy’s post. My bad.
That’s why we picked pot roast, throw the roast, potatoes, carrots, onions, red wine and seasonings in a pot and 2-3 hours in the oven…… pies from Trader Joes….. not much to do…..
Elmore and the kids will be here for the clean up……
k - the sister blogs have their own mod squads and policies
(((Petro))))
I did leave you a mawing opening
Have to agree. Frankly, I believe that if seeing where your meat comes from, you ought to be a vegetarian. I have killed and dressed all sorts of critters and don’t think much about it. The visuals in that, however, were truly over the top. Poor Sarah really is clueless.
Thanks, I needed a laugh after today’s attacks in Bombay …
Ah, we didn’t all grow up killing chickens, so our mileage varies.
Context is such a strong influence.
Like pumpkin pie and whipped cream and eggnog (with thank you) means more to some than others! Ha.
Love you Canadians anyway. :)
Damn! That should read”
I buy beef from the local guy at the farmer’s market that runs from June-Oct. He has only about a score of cattle (and the most gorgeous location.) I asked him once how he slaughters them. He loads them (or one?) on a truck and takes it to PA for slaughter & butchery. I asked him how he felt as he loaded it/them on the truck, as he had named them. Didn’t seem to be bothered.
They also have a B&B. Here are some pics but they doesn’t seem to do justice to just how spectacular the views are. http://www.blueberry-inn.com/gallery.html
As usual Ian you hit the nail on the head. After reading in the WSJ that the upper crust at UBS was going to give up their year end bonuses amounting to millions I had a good laugh considering they have probably socked away billions over the last five years alone. No doubt the former heads at Wachovia who are getting 98 million this year at tax payer expense are laughing all the way to the bank while many do without even the basics. What a great system we have where accountability means nothing any longer. Happy holidays one and all.
That’s a big class.
I did have my first Wasilla Hugh School graduate in four years, last semester, who could actually write a decent essay. She’s a drama major.
Buy the ready made pie crusts. Ya don’t have to tell anybody.
I guess my only problem with the Palin thing was that machine. In my experience, that machine doesn’t seem like it’s more humane than just chopping their heads off - the turkeys seemed to be in that thing for a really long time.
Enjoy M’dear! Sounds like it’ll be a wonderful gathering…! *g*
We all make mistakes.
Your point was noticed, tho.
It all depends on who is moderating.
Some things slip by and it’s not fun to see people calling someone else a name and getting away with it.
Suzanne is fair, but she can’t always be here.
One of my colleagues teaches a section with 450 students. Weird, but we are the largest purchaser of Intro to Anthropology textbooks in the country.
I think they were just bleeding out the carcass. Bird was dead pretty quick after it went in.
Not this time round but we can start the process and put it into their little pea brains. We should already be in sync with the new, 2010, bunch.
Glad to see you’re home. Not hard to see how much Miss Dog luvs ya. *g*
I understand - it’s just that I (mistakenly) misremembered that it was her article, and it wasn’t. That’s why I was surprised that the comment wasn’t moderated (and it’s still up, I just checked)
Fortunately, all the rest of the Firepups ignored that person - I haven’t seen them before (but that doesn’t mean anything) and that was the only comment they made on the entire thread. Wierd.
Intro Anthro. If you’d just use the King James Bible, you’d save a lot of dough. If Palin gets in she might fix it for us. God knows Dubya tried.
I’ve seen them, but don’t trust that they would be a good enough quality.
I have several cooking things to do: beef stroganoff, pumpkin spice bread, a couple of things with apples. But after that I think I’ll tackle pie crust. Iss good for me.
Do you think that is because we have so many reservations here?
Or is it because you are such a dynamite teacher? *g*
Used to stay at a farm some summers. The pigs all got named. We shipped them off to another farm for slaughter, and slaughtered theirs. Just didn’t seem right to eat Ida and so on.
Emptywheel does its own moderation. Suz and co. don’t moderate it at all unless asked, which I don’t believe has every occured. Marcy and Bmaz do the modding there and they give folks more rope than FDL proper does.
The recipe is simple. The trick to a good crust is keep everything extremely cold. Put ice in the water. Keep the butter cold. If the crust is starting to feel ‘greasy’ put it into the fridge for about 10 minutes to chill before you start to roll it out. And then don’t mess around with it too much - roll it as quickly as you can, get it in the pie dish, and leave it alone!
Never have figured it out. I get good evals and the other guy is really popular, but lots of students find the class really hard (class average has been about 72 out of 100 forever on 5 tests).
My only chore tomorrow is cornbread and baking powder biscuits, from scratch and organic.
Okay, I get it. Sorry I brought it up. Sorry I said what I said here. Thought about it just as I clicked the Submit button. Really sorry I didn’t think about it before I clicked. Now we can move on (pleading)?
Thanks, (hangs head)
My fav crust recipe is … Buy my sister a nice bottle of Red wine …
After a few glasses, she makes the best Pie crusts and Pies …
You provoked me to tell my funniest pig story. Year was 1979, place was Machu Picchu. In those days, the inn at the top had only 15 rooms, or about 30 people. We were standing around the front porch during the cocktail hour when gigantic (x-hundred pounds) pigs came rooting around. My late husband shooed one away, but he (the pig) was persistent, provoking my husband to say: You can’t eat me, I’m Jewish. I countered: the Bible sez the Jews can’t eat pigs. It sez nothing about the pigs eating Jews. Every person there understood enough English to laugh.
unfortunately, merely taxing these thieves into submission won’t do the trick. Their bosses, the boards (which too
often consist of other bosses) need to be made professional, accountable and liable. Directors’ insurance shouldn’t protect them in the event of non-frivolous shareholder litigation, out of control compensation authorized by a board should be a legitimate cause for actions, limitations on personal liability for damages should be eliminated, and, in the event of fraud or other criminal conduct on the part of mgmt, the failure of boards to supervise and maintain fudiciary responsibility should be grounds for prosecution - in other words, if mgmt steals from the company, he directors should go to jail along with their execs.
I took Intro to Anthro at Humboldt State U in Arcata Ca. Thought the class was fascinating. It was a teaching team, and one-half of the team was a Hupa woman who was a paraplegic but she had been very involved in the repatriation of remains cases. She really got us involved, and I got invited to participate at the White Deer Dance, not usually open to outsiders. What an honor!
Thanks for the tips.
In the ginger snaps I made today, the recipe recommended leaving the dough in the refrigerator for an hour before rolling them in 1″ balls, then rolling them in sugar. Worked like a charm.
Er, I was just explaining, not beating you mightily about the head and shoulders.
Oxdown is also not moderated in the same fashion, btw.
ROTFLMAO!
That sounds like a recipe for success. I remember wishing all the board members of Enron got prosecuted instead of just Kenny boy and Skillings. Of course, Enron is just a drop in the bucket to what has been going on lately…
I like pigs, actually. Smart animals. Never did take a shine to chickens, and we only had two cows, who never seemed to do much. Ducks are ok, Geese are nasty buggers.
Mean bastards as well. Not a big fan of sheep either. Dumber than a freaking stump. Only animal I ever saw too stupid to come in out of the rain. They would just stand there bleating and looking miserable.
My great aunt kept two or three pigs. She always said pigs got a bum rap because they get all dirty. But she said pigs actually like to be clean. She had a big tub of water with two ramps in the field where she kept the pigs. After they got done rooting in the mud, they would go get in the tub and get all clean and then go lay down in the nice grass at the other side of the field.
My mom told that to some people who raised pigs commercially (think hundreds in barns in pens) and they put up a sprinkler system with slightly warmed water that came on about three times a day. The pigs loved it - and the pig farm did not smell like a pig farm.
Thank you Ian.
Yes, I saw Suzanne’s comment.
Again, context and mileage. :)
If a company makes $1M profits and it has a combination of human work and capital investment involved, then how much of the profits should go to the human work and how much should go to the capital investors?
If you can nail that down without union-owner wars, then you’ve got something.
But, more than that, is it right to tell people who have earned money in a completely legal way how to pass it on to their children or how to use it? Do we tell Joe Sixpack how to use his bass boat?
It seems to me there’s a lot of hatred in this diary of the Rich (Lord knows they work for it) and not enough idealism. Perhaps I’m too idealistic at times, but I hate to focus on individuals or industries. I prefer to look at some fundamental concepts applied.
Obviously our economy has worked well to produce great wealth. Trouble is it hasn’t been distributed properly. Recently we’ve had a tremendous financial sector bubble and a lot of corruption which manipulated it for the benefit of a handful of people. That has to stop. But, does that mean we lock up the rest of the economy too? No, we start in on a new alternative energy economy and a new world trade regime so the world can begin to benefit more from what we have used here.
We start with freedom, add some structures to enable people, add some regulations which we know have worked and oversight AND one other important thing, an imperative that because government has helped the beneficiaries of that have certain duties.
When you have a concept you can derive particular laws with less randomicity and with better orthogonality.
The idea of indicting a board of directors along with the CEO or other high officers is somewhat akin to the issue of keeping a president in range of “plausible deniability”. Recently they’ve made it clear the Vice President and not the President has been doing all the naughty stuff. At least there is that possibility so we can’t prove Dubya did stuff. So, do you indict the Veep along with the Prez…and the chauffeur and the chef?
There has to be some way to determine actual culpability or else you’re just not delivering real Justice.
EPU’d again
William Golding was completely prescient in his writing. The rant is on, no amount of calm reasoned restraint will deter the demagogues calling for hate the rich, dismember the wealthy. No other voice will be heard above that din. OK, have it your way, Golding is prescient there as well.
In this thread, several “facts” have been stated; a handful for ending estate taxes, a thousand making a written declaration for the retention of estate taxes, and the demagogues in their economically ignorant self-righteous ravings are leading the ill-educated on a crusade to forcibly divest those from their property. Golding is prescient again. It seems that more of those who these charlatans are against actually agree with the need for estate taxes.
This makes one wonder just how many aristocrats the French “Terror” murdered actually had world views that supported the revolution. One will never know those numbers, but without a doubt their number would be significant.
There is little cause to continue calling out those who persist in their beliefs, for that is all they are, to consider the economic, historical, social, and legal implications of their crypto-”judgments”, and the effect those judgments have on the public well-being. Here again Golding is prescient, the mob rules.
Look for no justice from a mob, their judgments have no righteousness to them.
Look for no more such entries as well, your arguments fail even though they prevail. ;-(
When you do the calculus about the amount of wealth produced you need to look at the amount of debt and misery produced which off sets the wealth. What we see is the wealth that visble and much of the consumer spending was simply borrowed money and not wealth at all.
I am not asserting that wealth has not be created. I am asserting as others have that what has been created has disproportionately gone to capital. Do the boses work hard? Sure they do, but no harder than the “line” workers. Same with execs, yet they draw up to 400 times what the worker gets. Does that make any sense?
What should shareholder’s earn? When you think that a shareholder typically purchases his shares NOT from the corporation but from someone else who is selling them. His purchase price does not go to the corporation. He’s not helping fund them. But he is expecting to get a dividend from the certificate he owns. The deal with share value is that it is supposed to represent a portion of the value of a company. This relationship is not really there any more as share value computation is hardly based on real metrics and more and more based on other market factors and “psychological” factors. If there is bad market news it often tanks all shares regardless if anything has changed in any particular company. The entire system of shares is bizarre, arcane and needs to be rethought. Never owned one and never would.
this post is so oversimplified its pretty useless. People drive for obscene wealth not to overcome taxes (to have the near unlimited disposable income they desire) or to ‘not have to work anymore after 5 years’. They drive to obscene wealth because of personality defects: psychological factors - mainly extreme greed and lust for power, both of which arise out of personal insecurity. Taxing the crap out of them does not alleviate their personality flaws and so will not ‘curb their bad behavior’ - they will find ways to continue to hoard wealth and power, and abuse as many people as possible regardless of the tax rate even though obscene wealth and power don’t alleviate their problems either - but they think it does and they know of nothing else.
You would really need to pick a numer and tax above it at 100 percent to avoid some being paid any extra 100m just to take home the small fraction.
As one of my friends says, is the CEO of AIG really n times better at its job than the president of the US (where n is a number greater than 40)?