Far-right pundits and their allies in the media, using the false and discredited "center-right nation" trope, parrot incessantly the notion that Obama had better not push any actions that they deem too lefty, especially where fixing the economy’s concerned Meanwhile, a growing chorus of economists and other financial experts are advising — no, insisting — that Obama take immediate, bold, and sweeping measures, the very measures the righties deem anathema, to fix our broken economy. This means calling Grover Norquist’s deficit bluff, which is based on the belief that a Democratic president’s administration can be hamstrung by large debts run up by Republican predecessors. Even hard-core deficit-hater Hale "Bonddad" Stewart is calling for this sort of heavy-duty stimulus spending.
President-elect Barack Obama signaled Sunday he will move urgently and aggressively to rescue the plunging economy, demanding swift passage by Congress of a massive two-year spending and tax-cutting recovery program. "We’re out with the dithering, we’re in with a bang," a top Obama aide said.
Obama’s plans, outlined by his transition team on television talk shows, could put aside his campaign pledge to repeal a Bush tax cut for the wealthy. With the downturn in the economy, those tax cuts may remain in place until they are scheduled to die in 2011, said William M. Daley, an economic adviser. "That looks more likely than not," he said.
Obama aides called on lawmakers to pass, by the Jan. 20 inauguration, legislation that meets Obama’s two-year goal of saving or creating 2.5 million jobs. Democratic congressional leaders said they would get to work when Congress convenes Jan. 6.
Though Obama aides declined to discuss a total cost, it probably would far exceed the $175 billion he proposed during the campaign. Some economists and lawmakers have argued for a two-year plan as large as $700 billion, equal to the Wall Street bailout Congress approved last month.
"I don’t know what the exact number is, but it’s going to be a big number. It has to be," said Obama economic adviser Austan Goolsbee. "The point is to, kind of, get people back on track and startle the thing into submission."
Eyebrows have been raised at the idea that Obama might put off repealing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy even as he runs up the Federal debt with a stimulus package. But two smart guys named Paul – Paul Rosenberg and Paul Krugman – have shown why Obama might be wise to do this by recounting a bit of New Deal history — legitimate history, not the bogosities George Will cribbed from the Cato website and for which Krugman famously slapped him down. As Krugman says:
The effects of federal public works spending were largely offset by other factors, notably a large tax increase, enacted by Herbert Hoover, whose full effects weren’t felt until his successor took office. Also, expansionary policy at the federal level was undercut by spending cuts and tax increases at the state and local level.
And F.D.R. wasn’t just reluctant to pursue an all-out fiscal expansion — he was eager to return to conservative budget principles. That eagerness almost destroyed his legacy. After winning a smashing election victory in 1936, the Roosevelt administration cut spending and raised taxes, precipitating an economic relapse that drove the unemployment rate back into double digits and led to a major defeat in the 1938 midterm elections.
What saved the economy, and the New Deal, was the enormous public works project known as World War II, which finally provided a fiscal stimulus adequate to the economy’s needs.
[...]
F.D.R. thought he was being prudent by reining in his spending plans; in reality, he was taking big risks with the economy and with his legacy. My advice to the Obama people is to figure out how much help they think the economy needs, then add 50 percent. It’s much better, in a depressed economy, to err on the side of too much stimulus than on the side of too little.
By the way, Krugman has this to say about Obama’s economic team: "Seriously, isn’t it amazing just how impressive the people being named to key positions in the Obama administration seem? Bye-bye hacks and cronies, hello people who actually know what they’re doing. For a bunch of people who were written off as a permanent minority four years ago, the Democrats look remarkably like the natural governing party these days, with a deep bench of talent." He seems to be quite confident that Obama can do what needs to be done. Brad DeLong echoes Krugman’s praise of Obama’s team, as does Robert Reich, and these gents are as reality-based a set of persons as I’ve seen.
[Update: And for those who say that these folks are all Lock-Step Evil Followers of Evil Bobby Rubin: Well, considering Rubin's a big-time deficit hawk, isn't it rather odd that his allegedly-slavish disciples have gone hard-core Keynesian? Instead of doing the whole balance-the-budget thing with tax hikes and most especially the spending cuts that were so beloved of Rubin during his time in the Clinton White House, they are telling Obama to spend like crazy on economic stimulus, balanced budget be damned.]
Related posts:
- Pessimists on the Economy Don’t Exist at the Washington Post
- Unemployment Still Rising; Good Thing Collins, Snowe and Nelson Aren’t in Charge
- It Takes The Village To Raze the Economy: Some Notes On Krugman and the Return of Keynes
- Warren Buffett: Economy Needs Another Stimulus to Get It Up
- Healthcare and the Economy: Time to Put the Public Back in the Policy





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PW!
Digg
Gotta like Krugman’s title, “The grownups are coming.”
Phoenix Woman, I promise to come back and read your diary and comment etc., but please allow me to go O/T for now. Over at Oxdown cb12 has a diary up for us to send our well wishes to Katymine. Katy has a comment there stating that she is going home from the hospital tomorrow and thanks us “through her tears”. Please, Pups, send her Love, the best medicine.
Thanks.
Thanks! Will do.
I’ve noticed that Clemons has been doing a pretty damn good job of looking at economic policy lately. Saddling people with the bill and then pulling their jobs out from under them just sucks.
A recession or depression is the only time it is actually wise to run deficit spending. This is what the economic text books will tell you. This is why I was so pissed off about the first $700 billion dollar bailout to “buy distressed assets” that has morphed several times to just give money to banks for next to nothing in return.
Theoretically it is good to run deficits in recessions to stimulate the economy, however it is also textbook that there is some upper limit of borrowing after which a country may not be “good” for the money that they are borrowing. So are we there yet? Unfortunately we won’t know the answer until we find ourselves in the same boat as Argentina during their currency crisis.
Here is hoping that the bunch of econ policy wonks that Obama has assembled re-write the history of what to do in an economic crisis for the better.
Here is hoping the rest of the borrowning actually has an impact. We sure could use some down here in New Orleans. Infrastructure? What infrastructure?
Exactly. He seems to be very happy about the people Obama’s picked so far — and he and Obama were ripping each other up one side and down the other during the primaries.
So Krugman’s finally taken leave of his senses? Chomsky (democracynow this morning replayed a speech of his) sez that Obama’s economic group is like putting OBL in charge of terrorism. They should be indicted, not promoted.
I think that New Orleans would be an excellent place to kick off a new WPA-type program. Job One: Fixing the levees, for real this time. Job Two: Getting everyone in a decent home and with something to do (like, for instance, fixing levees and building homes). Job Three: Starting on restoring the wetlands that served as speed bumps. For starters.
Heh! Krugman is not Noam Chomsky. Neither is Brad DeLong or even Robert Reich.
If there is one thing that won’t help our economy is to break the Labor Unions as the Wingnuts are espousing!
If you take away theirs and the retiree’s medical benefits who will pay for the medical services these people need??
Neuro I have been Digging all your Diggs back thread!
Thanks PW,
It helps that Krugman is upbeat
still wish they’d be formally listening to Stiglitz, Roubini, Ian, Scarecrow, eCAHN, Hugh, & Stirling.
today is november 24. waiting until jan is not my idea of urgent action.
uh, no.
summers worked to repeal glass-steagall, to prevent cdss from being regulated and for enactment of the enron loophole. and that’s just for starters (i’m not even touching the fucked up trade polices he pushed while at treasury).
this is the very same stuff we rightly condemned phil gramm for (and by extension mcsame for having gramm as his financial advisor).
Of course, Krugman thought Bernanke was great and that speculation had nothing to do with the oil price drive up. I bow to none in my admiration of Krugman, but he’s not infallible and one of his biggest weaknesses is giving technocrats who’ve served their time the benefit of the doubt.
By the way, the Oxdown diary for Katymine is here.
Good Evening Phoenix Woman and Firedogs,
difficult for some of us disengage from the sheer terror at times, this post is a nice exhale Phoenix Woman, thanks
have been avoiding Atrios’ assessments in the event of bad news, he and DeLong rarely disagree, guess I should head over there
A) Krugman has been wrong about a lot of things, including the Paulson bailout, and he is wrong about rescinding tax cuts on the rich. That’s money that can be redirected to low and middle class Americans.
B) 2.5 million jobs created over 2 years is 100,000 jobs a month. 200,000 a month are needed for economic expansion.
C) A $700 billion stimulus over 2 years is $350 billion a year. $400-$600 billion per year is more like what is needed for there to be a real positive effect on the economy. Compare this up to $350 billion a year which so far has not been acted on to the over $3 trillion, not promised, but already received by banks and other financial institutions. See the difference?
Ah, but it’s not just the Krugster — it’s DeLong and Reich who are saying these things, too, to name but two others. Then again, Reich is an Evil Dirty Clintonite, so of course he’s not to be trusted, I guess.
I enjoyed your “don’t pet the sweaty things,” remark. I’m sure katymine can use a good laugh (as can we all).
chomsky was great – so nice to hear someone tell it straight and not pull any punches. found the links to the audio for downloading:
http://www.archive.org/details…..eElections
http://www.encuentro5.org/home/node/22
A real crime has been the fact that most of the federal money that has been poured into this area since Katrina has not gone to local companies with local workers.
This has had a dual affect in my opinion because the companies doing the work take the profits out of state and some of the workers are local subcontractors but the rest just don’t care very much about the job being done because they are not from here. Also the number of jobs available locally is obviously lower if people are bringing in out of town workers.
Bush even allowed contractors to not pay the prevailing wage after the storm!!! WTF?
We have architects laying off local workers while out of town companies are doing the work that local firms could easily do.
Oh and don’t even get me started about no bid contracts to out of town companies.
All I have to say is if we are getting levee work too can we please hire some local people and companies while we are at it? We need some of that money to stay here and stimulate the local economy.
I have been on a bit of a Digg binge this evening…
I tend to like the “Team of Rivals” approach.
Noam Chomsky is an Obama rival now. Why are the only “rivals” on his team so far from his right side?
but the far-right is too big to fail!
Do Ya need a new Shovel?? Bet that new PC is helping you out getting all the Diggs in!!
They have already Failed… And hopefully in time they will become extinct!
If Chomsky says they suck, then they suck. We already know Summers sucks bigtime.
Krugman has been acting weird lately. Maybe they let him join the Owl Man Club.
Nobel prize went to his head? Or, he is seduced by being a talking head? It seems to be all about head. *g*
I know, keep the Bush tax cuts across 3 more congress (this one, next one, and the one after) since all the rich people on TeVee say that Obama’s big mistake is not flat out saying he will never raise taxes on rich people.
I must concur… Thank You, Sarah Palin… Tho, for other reasons, naturally…! ;-)
cool, now somebody just has to tell tehm.
it certainly is faster!
if only it would stay online…
but that’s another problem
I think that a lot of people need to see that a cigar is sometimes just a cigar and dial down the operatic outrage over butterfly sneezes.
Over at DKos one day recently, there were two diaries on the Rec list at the same time; one diarist swore that Minnesota congressman Collin Peterson was going to be the next AgSec and how that would be a tragedy, and another diarist had a diary up about how some doofus named Wolff was going to be the next Secretary of Agriculture and OMG OMG how horrible that would be.
Now, I have no idea about the Wolff dude, but I’ve talked to a person associated with the Minnesota Farmers Union, who along with other ag groups have actually talked to Collin Peterson — and guess what? He says he’s not in contention and doesn’t want the job. Congressional staffers are consistently saying the same thing. But since my friend isn’t an A-list blogger, this all gets ignored in favor of OMG OMG OMG it’s a tragedy!!!!
From what I understand, there is a big problem in NO in terms of the stuff that supports people’s living there: grocery stores, hardware, drug stores, etc. etc. Recreating the city will also require recreating the entire city – with services, retail, etc.
from the progressive: Obama Crushes Hopes of Progressives with Rubinesque Economic Team
Then again, Reich is an Evil Dirty Clintonite, so of course he’s not to be trusted, I guess.
I’ll take this person any day over the above, but Yes wallstreet won’t like it. I think he might actual like the little people.
Yes Ian O has put a strong team together but will be printing more dollars be the we need? What will the rest of the plant think, same junk food?
jo6pac
The race to the bottom continues.
Naomi Klein. Another “rival” Obama could add to his “team.” You’d think that a Prez would some people advising him who are correct more than they’re wrong, unlike most “centrists” and Repubs.
Thanks PW.
Thanks for the link neurophius, dugg.
Did you intend the double entendre on Reich?
i’d be happy to have stiglitz, roubini, bair (ack! a republican!), dean baker, james galbraith, and i’m sure there are a ton more…. who 1) don’t have a history of getting stuff wrong and 2) didn’t help put us in the fix we’re in.
And the hate Obama drumbeat goes on.
Maybe Krugman joined this club:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove
The preponderance of people on Obama’s economic team who are connected to Rubin and the current financial crisis is disconcerting to say the least. But here’s a glimpse into the dynamic between Summers and Geithner which addresses the issue of group think:
I’m reading evidence, not emotion. Please link to the “hate.”
that would be great if they weren’t so ideologically similar (i’ve been reading some of geithner - links in hugh’s diary).
This graph is crying out for a joke.
Eggszacktly.
Remember, Rubin is a big-time deficit hawk. Yet Obama’s people are telling him to spend like crazy on stimulus, deficit be damned.
Selise, Rubin’s a deficit hawk. Yet what are Obama’s people telling Obama to do? Spend like crazy on stimulus, and forget the deficit! So much for their allegedly-slavish worship of Rubinomics.
question – isn’t the issue whether the criticism is accurate or inaccurate? backed by evidence or not?
The issue is not what is done right now as a result of a stimulus. Rubin is an economics moron but not stupid enough to sacrifice the economy to his ideology. The issue is what happens if/when the economy recovers. The Obama crew will do nothing to change the structure of the financial system and the problems will repeat.
“Deficit hawk” is not the unitary definition of Rubin. His higher priority is unregulated financial markets.
don’t think anywhere in my criticism of summers (or geithner) did i bring up the issue of deficits.
completely agree.
Think folks have moved upstairs.
The worm turns. No, I think the upheaval in the financial system is going to force change, regardless of what the high priests of finance or anybody thinks.
Don’t forget, Congress this time ’round will be Democrats and not Uncle Newtie. That means Obama will be receiving some regulatory legislation along with health care reform and energy stuff. Don’t underestimate the impact of Congress on the next 4 years (or more).
“What saved the economy, and the New Deal, was the enormous public works project known as World War II, which finally provided a fiscal stimulus adequate to the economy’s needs.”
Thom Hartman rebutted this very effectively. WW II actually cut economic growth, becuse war is non-productive expense — its not investment.
Please do the research, and from more than one source.
Thank you, Phoenix Woman, for this diary and your response to my #5.
I’m currently reading 2 books by Greg Palast. There is a history between Larry Summers (to be Obama’s economics adviser) and Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel Prize winner in Economics. Some of the history of these 2 men can be found on pages 151, 153 of Palast’s book, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. The revealing interview Palast had with Stiglitz can also be found on the Greg Palast website at link below.
http://www.gregpalast.com/the-…..-the-cold/
That globalizer was Stiglitz and his crucifier was Larry Summers. 1999
I would much have preferred that Obama choose an economic team composed of Stiglitz, Roubini, Krugman, and their ilk. I believe their hearts are with the overall good for mankind. I fear Summers is one of the elite oligarchs who will sooner rather than later drive the masses of the world, America included, into virtual slavery through taxation to pay the obscene debt and the interest thereon.