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	<title>Comments on: Pirates of the Straits of Hormuz? Oh, Really?</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/</link>
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		<title>By: shootthatarrow</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737614</link>
		<dc:creator>shootthatarrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737614</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In view of deeper Bush/Cheney regime’s desire to run the clock out and get outta town Jan.20,2009 to avoid any retreat debris fallout. In view of Bush/Cheney regime desires to escape any of many “gettin’outa Iraq” boobytraps that await Obama WH. In view of likely Rethuglican desires to be in position to optimally play “who lost Iraq” games in 2010/2012 The Decider should be “very pleased” indeed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This guy is a real piece of work. George H. and Babs Bush really turned out a hybrid with little George Junior. Thanks G.H. and Babs. Thanks alot.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In view of deeper Bush/Cheney regime’s desire to run the clock out and get outta town Jan.20,2009 to avoid any retreat debris fallout. In view of Bush/Cheney regime desires to escape any of many “gettin’outa Iraq” boobytraps that await Obama WH. In view of likely Rethuglican desires to be in position to optimally play “who lost Iraq” games in 2010/2012 The Decider should be “very pleased” indeed.</p>
<p>This guy is a real piece of work. George H. and Babs Bush really turned out a hybrid with little George Junior. Thanks G.H. and Babs. Thanks alot.</p>
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		<title>By: T-Bear</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737419</link>
		<dc:creator>T-Bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737419</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Some notes:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The SOFA appears vital to give coverage for GWB’s ass those days from 1 Jan to noon 20 Jan when UN paper quits covering it in respect to War crimes, Crimes against humanity, etc. stemming from the invasion and occupation of Iraq. The UN will not renew its coverage, SOFA is the only thing left. If it is not in place, each day brings a reiteration of the criminal charges (IANAL) upon Bush’s head. Obama, will face the same unless immediate action is taken to withdraw ALL forces, which might buy him some grace time. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Any pirates appearing in the Gulf will be Blackwater (or kindred) servicing their masters orders. An International “Shoot on Sight” should be issued in respect to their appearance.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some notes:</p>
<p>The SOFA appears vital to give coverage for GWB’s ass those days from 1 Jan to noon 20 Jan when UN paper quits covering it in respect to War crimes, Crimes against humanity, etc. stemming from the invasion and occupation of Iraq. The UN will not renew its coverage, SOFA is the only thing left. If it is not in place, each day brings a reiteration of the criminal charges (IANAL) upon Bush’s head. Obama, will face the same unless immediate action is taken to withdraw ALL forces, which might buy him some grace time. </p>
<p>Any pirates appearing in the Gulf will be Blackwater (or kindred) servicing their masters orders. An International “Shoot on Sight” should be issued in respect to their appearance.</p>
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		<title>By: T-Bear</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737406</link>
		<dc:creator>T-Bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 08:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737406</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good morning, just got here, haven’t read the post. Here is an unofficial translation of SOFA from McClatchy FYI&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/56116.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.mcclatchydc.com/hom.....56116.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Translated from the Arabic by Sahar Issa, Jenan Hussein and Hussein Kadhim of the McClatchy Baghdad Bureau.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;An Agreement between the Republic of Iraq and the United States of America regarding the Withdrawal of the American Forces from Iraq and Regulating their Activities During their Temporary Presence in it&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good morning, just got here, haven’t read the post. Here is an unofficial translation of SOFA from McClatchy FYI</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/56116.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mcclatchydc.com/hom&#8230;..56116.html</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Translated from the Arabic by Sahar Issa, Jenan Hussein and Hussein Kadhim of the McClatchy Baghdad Bureau.</p>
<p><strong>An Agreement between the Republic of Iraq and the United States of America regarding the Withdrawal of the American Forces from Iraq and Regulating their Activities During their Temporary Presence in it</strong></p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: Larue</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737316</link>
		<dc:creator>Larue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737316</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hello sailor, whatcha doin up this late? lol &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNmULx6sMo4&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNmULx6sMo4&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;*G*&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello sailor, whatcha doin up this late? lol </p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNmULx6sMo4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNmULx6sMo4</a></p>
<p>*G*</p>
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		<title>By: Larue</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737311</link>
		<dc:creator>Larue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737311</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That seems to be quite a comprehensive summary.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If it is as so, I think we need Obama, and to support Obama, to end this mess ASAP. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Once installed, I’m hoping Obama will move in an evac ASAP sitch, fast.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If not, I too, will have issues with him. Until then, I’ll waid.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks Siun . . . good read you posted . . .&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That seems to be quite a comprehensive summary.</p>
<p>If it is as so, I think we need Obama, and to support Obama, to end this mess ASAP. </p>
<p>Once installed, I’m hoping Obama will move in an evac ASAP sitch, fast.</p>
<p>If not, I too, will have issues with him. Until then, I’ll waid.</p>
<p>Thanks Siun . . . good read you posted . . .</p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737238</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 06:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;“Typos or not, I think you’re right that they want some “closure” that George can celebrate. “&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yeah, I think he wants to use that “Mission Accomplished” banner one more time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Typos or not, I think you’re right that they want some “closure” that George can celebrate. “</p>
<p>Yeah, I think he wants to use that “Mission Accomplished” banner one more time.</p>
<p>Bob in HI</p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737234</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 06:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737234</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oops, Siun, you beat me to my comment @ 69. I yield to the accuracy of your summary. And I owe you the beverage of your choice. May I suggest a cool glass of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.recipezaar.com/Persian-Yogurt-Drink-Doogh-167221&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Iranian Doogh&lt;/a&gt;? I’m sure the Arabs have the same thing, but I don’t know what they call it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Aloha,&lt;br /&gt;
Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, Siun, you beat me to my comment @ 69. I yield to the accuracy of your summary. And I owe you the beverage of your choice. May I suggest a cool glass of <a href="http://www.recipezaar.com/Persian-Yogurt-Drink-Doogh-167221" rel="nofollow">Iranian Doogh</a>? I’m sure the Arabs have the same thing, but I don’t know what they call it.</p>
<p>Aloha,<br />
Bob in HI</p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737215</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 06:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;No, I think the answer is that our government is so embarrassed by the terms that they don’t really want Americans to know what the terms were. What I’ve heard so far is stuff like after Dec. 31, any military actions will have to take place under Iraqi command (not US, which would place U.S. troops under foreign command– something I’m not sure we allow even in NATO exercises), and that Iraq will have full legal jurisdiction over any illegal acts carried out by Americans on Iraqi soil (Thanks, Blackwater, for setting such a sterling example), and stuff like that, which if Obama had proposed, would be widely condemned as appeasement.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I think the answer is that our government is so embarrassed by the terms that they don’t really want Americans to know what the terms were. What I’ve heard so far is stuff like after Dec. 31, any military actions will have to take place under Iraqi command (not US, which would place U.S. troops under foreign command– something I’m not sure we allow even in NATO exercises), and that Iraq will have full legal jurisdiction over any illegal acts carried out by Americans on Iraqi soil (Thanks, Blackwater, for setting such a sterling example), and stuff like that, which if Obama had proposed, would be widely condemned as appeasement.</p>
<p>Bob in HI</p>
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		<title>By: annie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737077</link>
		<dc:creator>annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 04:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;thanks siun&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks siun</p>
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		<title>By: annie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737074</link>
		<dc:creator>annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 04:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/23/pirates-of-the-straits-of-hormuz-oh-really/#comment-1737074</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://arablinks.blogspot.com/2008/11/crime-and-punishment.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;badger&lt;/a&gt; has an excellent post up. in the comment section he translates a section of the sofa&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;another potentially interesting point, per Article 3: “Defence and security cooperation” (my rough translation of what is obviously a rough Arabic translation of the US draft):&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For strengthening security and stability in Iraq, and thus contributing to international security and stability, and strengthening the capacity of the Republic of Iraq for deterring any existing threats to its sovereignty and its security and the integrity of its territory, the two parties continue to work for the development of close cooperative relations, relating to &lt;em&gt;defence and security&lt;/em&gt; arrangements, without prejudicing the sovereignty of Iraq, on land sea and air. And this cooperation in defence and security will take place in accordance with the agreement on the temporary presence and activities of the American forces in Iraq, and their withdrawal from [Iraq] and the takeover by the Iraqi forces of complete &lt;em&gt;security &lt;/em&gt;responsibilities.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Notice that according to this (1) the close cooperation in defence and security arrangements has been inserted into the long-term strategic framework agreement; and (2) while the cooperation is in defence and security arrangements, &lt;strong&gt;what is contemplated at the end of this section is the takeover by the Iraqi forces of full responsibility for security, the word defence being missing there.&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;in this case, one could interpret that the US will turn over iraq’s security, but not it’s defense. IOW the US would remain ‘responsible’ for defensive actions. ie: the ability to have bases for the ‘protection’ of iraq ie: the ability not to attack from within iraq per se, but to defend it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;does this include pre emptive attacks?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;also, don’t miss Haifa Zankana’s text in badger’s post. excellent.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://arablinks.blogspot.com/2008/11/crime-and-punishment.html" rel="nofollow">badger</a> has an excellent post up. in the comment section he translates a section of the sofa</p>
<blockquote><p>another potentially interesting point, per Article 3: “Defence and security cooperation” (my rough translation of what is obviously a rough Arabic translation of the US draft):</p>
<p>For strengthening security and stability in Iraq, and thus contributing to international security and stability, and strengthening the capacity of the Republic of Iraq for deterring any existing threats to its sovereignty and its security and the integrity of its territory, the two parties continue to work for the development of close cooperative relations, relating to <em>defence and security</em> arrangements, without prejudicing the sovereignty of Iraq, on land sea and air. And this cooperation in defence and security will take place in accordance with the agreement on the temporary presence and activities of the American forces in Iraq, and their withdrawal from [Iraq] and the takeover by the Iraqi forces of complete <em>security </em>responsibilities.</p>
<p>Notice that according to this (1) the close cooperation in defence and security arrangements has been inserted into the long-term strategic framework agreement; and (2) while the cooperation is in defence and security arrangements, <strong>what is contemplated at the end of this section is the takeover by the Iraqi forces of full responsibility for security, the word defence being missing there.</strong> </p>
</blockquote>
<p>in this case, one could interpret that the US will turn over iraq’s security, but not it’s defense. IOW the US would remain ‘responsible’ for defensive actions. ie: the ability to have bases for the ‘protection’ of iraq ie: the ability not to attack from within iraq per se, but to defend it.</p>
<p>does this include pre emptive attacks?</p>
<p>also, don’t miss Haifa Zankana’s text in badger’s post. excellent.</p>
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