The acquisition of one of the big three by a Chinese company would vault China a decade forward.
China wants a car company. The right wing, blinded by a hatred of unions, wants to give it to them. China is already looking at what that would mean: gaining a decade on having a car culture, and the ability to produce it’s own automobiles.
Up until now, it has acted as an assembly point, and source for parts, for some time, in the hopes of learning the secrets of what is one of the crown jewels of the industrial system. Its attempts to penetrate the core automotive markets have been fraught with problems. For China, automobiles provide the key to opening their own interior, expanding their compact cities, turning vast stretches of marginal economic land into developments, and at the end, an export engine with a high value add.
China has not treated automobile technology to the same export oriented path as it has many other industries, only recently to the value of Chinese auto exports surpass auto imports. For a country with a huge chunk of its GDP in exports, and an openly mercantile economic policy, this is unusual. However, as with everything, the end game is both to have China produce high value goods domestically, and export to the rest of the world when they can. For China’s auto industry, that day is coming soon. Right now they are where the Japanese were in the 1960′s – able to export to second tier markets, or able to build other company’s vehicles. China exported only 44,000 complete vehicles in September of 2008, a drop in the global bucket – and mainly to second tier and developing markets.
China’s automobiles also have quality problems. According to JD Powers and associates, defect rates are still nearly twice times comparable North American produced vehicles. China’s supply chain problems, while not as acute as they were in 2006, are the focus of a national build out. Tariffs on parts imported for re-export have been dropped. While China is indeed the epicenter of cheap factory labor, most of the cost of a car is materials, not labor, and China still has a chronic shortage of management. The Chinese are still "a product generation away" from being able to face competitive markets. Even international car companies have defect rates that are 50% above the Big Three. And domestic brands? More than three times. While it might seem that two dollar an hour labor will make up for almost anything, that’s not the case when producing large complex industrial goods. First, time on tools matters. Two dollar an hour labor is not the same thing as assembly line quality labor in Europe or the United States.
Second the speed of China’s growth in export has meant that there are stretch marks all over China’s build out. The quality of almost everything in China, is suspect, from paint to "tofu construction." The larger the end product, the more the underlying defects add up. The more delays from breakdowns and other problems, the more cushion factories have to build in. It is one thing to assemble parts, it is another thing to build something of locally produced parts. In automobiles, the power train is one area most susceptible to these problems. Finally, China has a shortage of people who can run groups, factories, and extended businesses. Managing a global supply chain is hard, Renault has a "crisis cell" group that does nothing but deal with problems with their global supply chain. China does not have this expertise, nor the expertise with hedging materials costs and futures costs. That’s why China’s penetration into the US and Europe remains limited. Quality, emissions standards, safety, design skills, scalability, all need to be addressed.
The above means that fear of China flooding the world with cheap cars any time soon, is overblown. But the threat is more indirect, in a more important sense, this moment is a do or die for the US automotive industry. China, you see, doesn’t need to compete head to head with BMW, Volkswagon, or the Big Three. It doesn’t need to beat Toyota in a price war over sedans. Instead, what it needs is the ability to produce vehicles for it’s domstic market that are "good enough," and it needs continued access to the US domestic parts market. Autoparts account for a noticeable amount of US exports, auto parts are a significant part of auto employment. It is in auto parts where the Chinese labor advantage is most important, and Chinese auto parts are not falling in the recession, because their defect rate is comparable to America parts, and the prices are lower. They aren’t equal, but they are close enough cheap enough. The acquisition of one of the big three by a Chinese company would vault China a decade forward. Enough to do two important things. The first is have a network of distributors and dealers in the US, which is one of the most difficult and expensive propositions. The second is the ability to ignite their own internal economy. It needs to move beyond knock-offs, and it is, both by acquiring older manufacturers like MG Rover, and by building large R&D facilities. It is moving beyond lower quality and lower price as the only selling points by purchasing sophisticated supply chain and materials handling technology. It takes time to integrate this technology, but once the cycle of development and retooling is learned, the lesson of the South Korean auto industry is instructive: 15 years from joke, to solid player in the global market.
China is serious about automotive technology. It is also considering using its currency reserves to bail out its own troubled automotive sector, which has over built low quality production in an era of 25% market growth, and is facing an era of significantly slower growth, with higher bar to market. That’s why They’ve propose buying key assets from Chrysler and GM. That’s what the right wing noise machine, and Senator Shelby, are pushing in essence: selling Detroit to Shanghai. Such a move would not vault China into the top ranks over night, but it would create a vacuum in the US, and mean that the US auto industry would be on circling the drain. Even the hard right realizes that nationalization would be the only other solution.
China wants to shift from being export driven, to being internally driven. Auto penetration in China is still a fraction of the USFor this they need to have the ability to expand internally, and that means roads automobiles and the sprawlconomy, and they need something to export to the world which can be synergistic with this: namely, security. This is why the Chinese want an aircraft carrier because that is one important key to force projection, at a time when the American security product is not in high repute. The rest of the world puts up with American exceptionalism for peace. Failing to protect oil shipping is an example not doing our job.
That is the real threat: a China which can decouple is more dangerous that the People’s Liberation Army. Dumping trillions of dollars a more effective threat than dumping bombs on Taibei. The American economy is the key strength that America must protect. But the distance to both the carrier, and to a domestic auto industry show that why getting an auto industry restructuring right this time, along with a financial industry right this time, because with each passing economic cycle the time when the United States will have a genuine replacement to run the 20th century hegemonic power position, grows stronger. Failing to restructure the American automotive industry now, will have drastic consequences. Not just on the immediate employment picture, but on the next economic cycle. There will be another recession after this one, it is a metaphysical certainty. When that recession comes, if the financial system has not been overhauled, and the US basic economy has not been dramatically altered, then a China that can credibly say that it is going to decouple from the US is in the cards. And on that day the easy money of the hegemonic period will evaporate, not just for a year or two, but forever.
Would a world dependent on Chinese auto production be one that is going to combat global warming, or even ordinary pollution? That doesn’t seem reasonable given the Chinese attitude towards pollution as "someone else’s problem." Would a world dependent on Chinese auto production be able to shift transportation policy? Again, unlikely. Personal transportation is the fulcrum both of personal opportunity, and the largest problems facing the public. If the US wants to control it’s destiny on these matters, then neither take down, nor bail out, are reasonable options. The only one that remains, is an overhaul, recognizing that an SUV might put more profits on the balance sheet of GM, but it has more costs on the national balance sheets than it is worth.
The US still has the liquidity and position to get this right now, but if it fails, it will almost certainly not see a chance again. There’s no tomorrow on this one, and the choices of letting US automotive industry either collapse, or turn into a money sinking zombie, both lead down a road from which there are no exits, and no chances to turn back.



76 Comments












Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
While you’re in China next, be sure to try out a Buick Regal.
They can’t build them fast enough for their market.
Leaving aside the staggering carbon emission issues for a moment, are the folks rooting for Big 3 bankruptcies thinking ahead to how much oil a China full of cars would be sucking out of the world petro markets? A China with the ability to outbid us? Opposing a Big 3 bailout is, in short, not consistent with seeing American energy independence as a national security issue. Someone oughtta ’splain those folks.
Wow, this sounds like a neocon rant against China.
There are serious problems to consider with China’s possibly taking over the U.S. auto industry, but it is surely premature to include the issue of the forever disappearance of U.S. hegemonic power.
Wow. An analytical tour de force.
Thanks Stirlingdigg
If you think it’s “premature,” please by all means, list your reasons.
And completly ignores peak oil.
For starters, China spends a small fraction of what the U.S. does on its military.
did anyone else listen to the House Financial Services Committee hearing today? – especially Sach’s?
oops – link to hearing i was referring to: Stabilizing the Financial Condition of the American Automobile Industry
the archived video is up.
Serbia has its automotive problems too
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27809108
When did he speak and is there any way of fast forwarding other than just holding down the ff button, which seems to be a cumbersome & slow way of doing it?
quite right. we’ll bomb em. problem solved.
I thought Stirling addressed that:
The issue I was challenged on is whether China can replace the US as hegemon anytime soon. I’m suggesting that it can’t while its military is so small. Where did you read that I suggested bombing them?
Well, well well. One sentence. Yep. That sure proves the point.
Based on your comments, I don’t think you read his post.
it was towards the end – i think you have to download the video from the beginning, but you don’t have to watch the whole thing (at least that is the way it works for me).
i’ve already uploaded a bit of it to youtube – although you’ll have to forgive the poor quality as the committee feed is the only source if have.
Gregory is reporting on MSNBC that Reid is postponing the vote on the Bailout for the Big Three, citing that there’s not enough votes for it…!
China should have switched to being internally driven years ago. That’s a healthy development. For far too long the U.S. has been the consumer of last resort.
I don’t know why that would lead to China’s replacing the U.S. as world hegemon.
should have said that the youtube is processing and i will post the link as soon as i see that it’s available.
I should have added: anytime soon.
Man, there really is a lot of misinformation and disinformation about the global car industry. Stirling and I don’t see eye-to-eye about China (I think they are much farther ahead than he does on quality, although I think that quality of many products from China will remain challenged) — but he’s right about the aims of China. Meeting their desire to achieve what they believe is progress is the only way they will keep such a massive population happy as they maintain moderately centralized control.
What many Americans have also forgotten is that China has been negotiating strategically for energy supplies in places that we’ve arrogantly written off in one way or another. Like Russia. Or Iran. The continent of Africa.
Peak Oil, my eye; they will be laughing as they drive past us if they not only own the last of the oil, but the most current electric car technology.
Neo-con rantings? Hardly. The Chinese are quite versed in the concept of “assymetric warfare.” Maybe it’s time for the public to learn more about it.
Sachs is on msnbc right now.
is he going all cassandra, or was that only for the hearing?
Because at that point they don’t need the US as an export market, won’t buy the US’s lousy debt, and can provide the consumption market for other economies. When the US is no longer consumer of last resort, and when Arabs can buy a lot of the stuff they need from China, you also risk oil moving off the dollar.
If China is the primary consumer market, and not the US, everyone can let the US fail. And as we all know, the US is at the point where if other countries stop holding its head out of the water, it will fail.
The Chinese move to build a couple aircraft carriers is part of this. The US has not been doing its anti-piracy job, since its carrier groups are all busy doing other things. If China can also say to the Arabas “we can keep the supertankers safe”, well, they really don’t need the US then.
China moving to an internal consumption market is the moment when the US is sunk, because the rest of the world no longer needs the US.
Just caught the end of it. Subject was auto ind loan & he said he thought congress would do it in the end because the alternate was too serious to contemplate. So yes, pretty doomsday. This is one time when I agree with him.
All of this is eventually going to happen, and when it does, the world economy, taken as a whole, will have much healthier underpinnings than it currently does.
I look forward to that, I don’t dread it.
Oh, and this post is one of the first of what I expect will be a long line: lefties looking for foreign enemies whereever they can find them.
this is the worst time of day for youtube processing. in the morning (usa eastcoast) it’s usually a lot quicker. argh.
but if that doesn’t happen eventually aren’t we talking about serious social unrest (to say nothing of the humanitarian considerations)?
and if we try to prevent it – won’t the leadership of china see us as a threat to their survival?
don’t see we’re doing ourselves any favors with a strategy to prevent this transition. other options please?
In other words, China is in a position to end American global hegemony without having to fire a single shot. The weapon has instead been the slow and inexorable working of global economics, and all the military spending in the world won’t make all that accrued movement go away. So it may be too late to do anything about that.
China will not be the reason that the US ceases to be world hegemon. That distinction belongs to our addiction to stupid, ineffective leadership.
We have slowly been losing our hegenomy for some time now. Bush just hurried it up a little with his wack ass policies.
Countries the world over have protected and bailed out key industries in their countries. Small and large countries have done it to varying success.
America has been missing the boat for many years now because we spend our resources on ineffecient and unproductive ways. America needs a strategic plan quite badly or the only area we will have hegenomy is in our awesome military power which is only as sustainable as the rest of our economy, because if we can’t man the tanks what good are they?
I agree that the U.S. is losing it hegemony slowly and China’s economic development is contributing to that trend. I object to the sense of immimence & dread that pervades this post.
From an economic pov, as I mentioned, having a better balanced world economy, meaning for this post, more Chinese consumer spending & less US consumer spending (not less than now, but less than it would otherwise be) is a good thing.
As for military, cultural, other forms of hegemony, I would also prefer a more balanced world. Particularly the former (as long as an arms race doesn’t develop, which I fear will probably occur). I think the U.S. military/spook complex has been primarily a force for bad stuff and would love it if they were more constrained. But that’s a pipedream and won’t happen in my lifetime anyway.
while waiting for the youtube to process, i’m listening to sachs again – he’s depressing the hell out of me. not because of what he’s saying but because if there any significant chance he’s not wrong then why the fuck aren’t we mobilizing the country to face our challenges?
well, your def might be not the same as mine, i suppose. you did not then actually mean military power? okay.
I’m saying that military power is a necessary (but not sufficient) condition for hegemony. Of course, as the U.S. has recently learned, military hegemony is most powerful when it’s not actually used.
I’m an hour & 5 min into the hearing. Have it on mute on another screen. How long is the hearing & when should I unmute it?
The trick is to get some reasonably soft landing as we slip off the hegemon seat. The more basic capacity assets we lose — like manufacturing and a highly educated workforce — the less likely that becomes.
not yet – i started late and have almost 5 hours.
Yeah, we don’t need no goddam help from anyone. We can put ourselves into a depression all by ourselves. So there.
i’d also like to avoid unnecessary wars.
Just a few facts to throw out. China has 4 times the population of the US and it is an aging population. And it has a GDP 4 times smaller than ours. China spent about $61 billion on defense in 2008 or a tenth or less what we did.
Oy.
Yes. The point is to manage the inevitable as well as possible. And what you mention are good starting points.
a uniquely American depression.
Yes indeedy. I would always regard unnecessary wars as not only evil, as they always are by definition, but also counterproductive to the soft landing goal.
great! then now’s the time to fight them – while they are weak. we can’t afford to wait for them to be strong.
[disclaimer - channeling dick cheney here]
i’m making a couple more youtubes. might make an audio clip too for dial up folks. can’t believe cspan didn’t cover this.
cnbc flipped in & out. but that’s not any way for a viewer to know what’s going on.
Absolutely we need to kick them while we’re down.
No more than it is premature for many to criticize and castigate Obama before he takes office and governs!!!
My personal opinion is we can’t afford, short term or longterm, to sell auto tech to China. I believe the thread author outlines why.
And if we DON’T nationalize transportation (sky to road to rail to ship) we will continue to ruin ourselves as we have over the past 30-40 years with non-union, dereg, and profiteering to the top 1% instead of reinvesting into our working class.
But then, we deserve the country we enabled. *G*
Instead we’re gonna let em buy the US auto industry to break US unions. There’s my foot. Ready. Aim. Fire.
That’s interesting. The population ratios make comparisons difficult, don’t they? I mean your numbers say China’s per-GDP-dollar defense spending is around 40% of ours (I would have expected a smaller number there) but looking at it from a per capita perspective, that would make China’s defense spending only about 1% of ours.
Lifeboat mentality for the ruling cla$$e$, I guess.
This ruling class is one of the enemies I just can’t understand.
Yes. In this one case, I may be willing to make an exception to my standing rule of not demonizing my enemies. (insert wry smiley here.)
Until I hear some real deals on the table, I’m suspending judgment on this. There are just too many unaddressed variables here.
I do know the Republicans are acting like idiots on this. Selling Unocal to China went belly up because of “national security” concerns, I would think that lawmakers might use this screen again for the auto industry.
By the way: Remember the outer message of the Beijing Olympics? Here Comes China.
Got my fingers & toes crossed. Don’t know how much of Rs reaction is theater for their constituents.
And of course, the auto execs did themselves a fine favor by flying to DC in their private jets, each one separately.
Let us not forget that China’s leaders are just as susceptible to being idiots as US leaders. Just because they currently look like they are walking on water and US leaders are trying to drown the economy in the bathtub (I guess Norquist was misquoted), doesn’t mean the situation won’t ever be reversed.
apparently barney frank’s committee has something in the works (which i have not seen) but sachs this afternoon (testifying before frank’s committee) sounded like he had – he made some specific suggestions but basically gave it the thumbs up. sachs is not someone who’s judgement i’m inclined to trust – on the other hand he’s not a complete idiot (in my book anyway).
the thing though that struck me most about today’s hearing was that sachs was sounding sorta like paulson did about bailing out the financial industry (risking depression, etc)… is he for real or acting? if for real is it justified? not a typical testimony.
I don’t know Sachs. But it is amazing the amount of dithering and grandstanding that is going on around an economic crisis bigger than any of us have ever seen.
Beware the sleeping tiger.
As Newberry points out, and as has EW and others, if China gets our auto industry, or even ONE of them Big 3, it leapfrogs them mightily. In many ways.
You seem pretty sure of your position regarding the Chinese threat as put forth by the author of this thread.
Perhaps you’d like to ’splain why?
And while yer at it, how would YOU solve the problem of the auto industry going down? And solve it’s layoffs, and all else that is coming with it?
ot – an answer to one of your questions. this is from atrios today:
Lefty’s? Looking for war and enemies?
I though all us lefty’s wanted whirled peas and tranquility.
Along with jobs, incomes, and healthcare.
How do you spin lefty’s into looking for war?
Are you channelling Leo Strauss, and spinning it thru a fundie neo con lens? And then labeling lefty’s as demons, which is pure Straussian/Rovian methodology?
You’re right, things might change in some way at future some point. I’m trying to figure out what the next moves are likely to be, based on the present conditions and dynamics. Puffery of the players being one possible indicator there of. Dogwhistles, Kabuki, and tea-leaves.
you may recall that the neocons started out as dems.
Dogwhistles, Kabuki, and tea-leaves. Oh my…
neither youtube is yet processed, here are the links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG-tGV41KFc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2O3GZeSJ4U
clips are up.
note these are ripped from the committee website stream.
Reading these comments I am led to wonder if there are some Capitalists in America who are “assisting” Chinese to choose a path which allows them to buy off certain American industries, move the World’s power center to China and all the while ’some Capitalists’ ride that wave to economic and political power as the wise advisers to the Chinese elite. Meanwhile, back in America people are wondering how the Chinese have gained the power to buy whole industries and why our political leaders can’t stop it (or won’t). Any Americans attempting to ride that tiger could become wildly powerful or dead.
Americans would be left with a very different domestic and world economy and a very shrunken economy. Shrunken in politically significant ways, so urban, unionized and other heavily Democratic areas would be pretty much powerless to fight back.
If the fighting isn’t occurring in the open, then we can assume some evil guys are behind these plans.
Heh. Don’t worry, the Republicans will save us. LOL
America just recently (in the elections) didn’t trust the Republicans to save us from the mess they’ve made for us. Could there be a time in the not too distant future when Republicans will have stifled Dem efforts to fix things and the public would come around to believing new Repub faces can save us from this mess? Are Repubs hypocritical enough to use such a strategy to gain power again? Of course.
It’s really really hard to stay within the bounds of law and still fight evil forces from within our country.
No. They started out as neos and latched on to DLC Dems to become neoDLCers and then when Carter & Co. turned them out they went to the Repub Conservatives to become neoCons.
Apparently they didn’t like Carter making peace in the Middle East.
Therefore one can assume they want war in the Middle East.
Dems dont’ want that war.
Repubs let the war go on, so neoCons stayed Republican.
But really, are the neoCons just Zionists with dual-US-Israeli citizenship or are they opportunistic war-mongers?
While I don’t take issue with this article I feel you are missing the point. China is completely superfluous to the real issue here. How much do you know about Detroit corporate car culture? I was born in Detroit and raised there. My father and my brother worked for Chrysler for many years before getting forced retirement. I lived for many years about a mile away from the GM Tech Center and had many friends (and their fathers who worked there). Based on what I know and have seen about the automobile corporate culture I would suggest that a simple bailout of the auto industry has nothing to do with protecting those millions of jobs but would in fact ensure their downfall. Giving billions of dollars to the auto industry without eviscerating its corporate culture would be an act of sheer stupidity. But then who would be left to run the companies? The simple idea that money somehow will save this industry is complete nonsense. Maybe it just not salvageable, period. It might be better to let it all go and start from scratch I don’t know. The one thing I do know is that as long as all those auto executives still have their jobs, you have a dead auto industry walking and nothing the government does will make a damn bit of difference in the long run.