Harry Reid: “I feel good about what we did today.”

puke

If he isn’t particularly liberal, then pressure from the left is even more important. There is no downside to pushing for policies and outcomes liberals prefer, and there is plenty of downside to allowing the pressure to come primarily from the right.

I haven’t seen any evidence that Obama yields to pressure from the Left. I’m not suggesting we shouldn’t keep trying but I really don’t think he gives a shit what we think.

sigh

MASSIVE EMAILS to his website

“Joe the Bummer”

The best cast I can put on this: Joe Lieberman has been, once and for all, neutralized.

He has used up all nine of his lives.

He is so over with, exposed for the creep he really is.

And Obama is Joe’s savior.

lock, stock and barrel.

I just heard Chuck Todd say Lieberman publically “thanked” Obama for supporting him.

Maybe he did, but what I thought I saw was Liebermangloating about Obama’s support of him.

Ya think?

Time will tell… and it won’t take long to see.

I’m hoping against hope that you’re wrong, but, alas, you may be right.

At most he will acknowledge receiving a lot of e-mail. I don’t believe it will ever alter his course an iota. We can keep trying (what else is there?).

Maybe he did, but what I thought I saw was Lieberman gloating about Obama’s support of him.

I think that we should buy Malia and Sasha a pony, or maybe two. Seriously. After all our sarcastic talk about Holden’s ponies, we have two cute little girls in the White house who’d just love a real pony.

I also think that we should offer a compromise to Reid: stack Lieberman’s committee 8-5 with good Democrats so that he can be overridden any time he starts being an asshole.

But mostly, get the kids a pony.

I just hope that Obama pulled Joe aside before pushing for his retaining his gavel and said (like I say to my 6-year old) “if you just so much think about stepping out of line, I will fuck you like…. well, like you fucked me. But much worse.

Of course, I tone down the language with my 6-year old. ; )

I guess what I’m saying is that it is inevitable Obama will chart a centrist course, which is likely to include some good things and some things that really piss us off. He seems willing to hear opposing viewpoints but repetition doesn’t impress him, IOW petitions will likely prove useless.

oooo but what kind of pony? will it come sooner or later? What bred of pony will it be? Will the pony contain allergens? Might the pony be trained to entertain properly and not bite reporters?

Digg

whatever else it is, it must be a centrist pony.

Right after the election all I saw was wingers freaking out how us Lefties had it in the bag and Obama could do no wrong as far as we were concerned.

NOT.

I disabused this notion immediately.
Obama does not get a free pass and if anything, we are going to have to work just as hard as we have with Bush in the Whitehouse.

There is no end to it.

All of those things, tw3k, and with your permission, we are going to name it Jus Cogens.

If bipartisanship is the cool thing i guess i won’t mind joining with the right for impeachment.

Guess we’ll have to see how the honeymoon goes.

lol

So what was all those crowds about and what did they really want? The spin is the end to bi partisan BS roadblocks… but the rhetoric was change.

What DOES change mean? And end to road blocks? or a repudiation of “republicanism” which has dominated DC for 24 or more years.

I want to believe that the people are more progressive and want a NEW direction, not a kumbaya with the repukes and everyone letting bygones be bygones.

Personally I want some accountability. I want there to be a repudiation of the past wrong doing. Even if they are charged convicted and not sent to jail… they need to have records and guilty convictions.

If W pardons the lot and that ends it all… should be assume they were all guilty as hell? Is Obi trying to game W into thinking he’s gonna not go after anyone and do a bait and switch after W’s gone clearing brush? I doubt it.

Obi wil have a failed presidency unless this nation makes some pretty radical changes in how it works… that includes heath care, labor relations, tax policy, accountability for white collar crimes, and end to the national security state, and a major shrinking of the military and our footprint abroad, getting the energy thing under control, cleaning up the environment and rebuilding the falling apart America (built by corporations out for a big profit.

If we continue on with the .. “we are exceptional” BS and we are the world leader and the best thing since sliced bread we will take ourselves right off the cliff. If we don’t CHANGE we will continue to self destruct taken down by the financial sector which has completely undermined the economy of the nation and the world.

But see who Obi surrounds himself with… where are the progressive voices? Why don’t we hear THEIR ideas? Why only the retreads? I think Obi doesn’t have the balls or the desire to take on the establishment. He wants to join it and “clean it up” a bit. And he thinks he can persaude the old timers to “do the right thing” for once in their lives. Now how likely is that?

:)

Might the pony be trained to entertain properly and not bite reporters?

Personally, I would find a pony that bites reporters quite entertaining…

All this talk of reconciliation and no consequences for actions is a little too much to bear. How about if the rest of us get a little of that sort of love in our lives? I promise you, if I did as many underhanded things as Lieberman did, I’d be fucked. Properly fucked.

Nah, if we can’t impeach somebody who really deserves it like Bush, I can’t imagine Obama doing anything that qualifies.

well, on second thought, sounds pretty entertain to me as well.

So long as the blow hards on teevee don’t play it forever and a day.

silly you, impeachment isn’t for ‘important’ things!

i agree, not us. there aren’t enough of us.

Hereafter, he should be the vermin whose name is not spoken.

But he’s a leftist liberal!

per Rush

Ya know – It’s Obama’s recession, per Rush

They’ll be screamin’ it from the rafters Jan 21.

:(

Obama’s going to do a lot of good things

will believe it when i see it. (not saying it’s not true, just that i’m not satisfied with words)

Look what Dobson did with 950 people.

Remember Margaret Mead.

yeah but teh google doesn’t like they who are not spoken. :(

That blue dress shore is purty…

meaning there need to be more of us.

The Dems spent all that wasted money on the war!

from the post above–

If you don’t fight, and someone else fights you, you lose get the crap beat out of you.

see, not important!

not enough – yet.

or maybe we’re not thinking. should probably go read some gene sharp or gandhi – master strategists.

I’d be okay with that…total shunning nonpersonhood from here forward.

There is still hope

Yes, it is disappointing that the serious people decided to let Holy Joe keep Homeland Security.

But there is one possible motive they might have had, one plan, as yet hidden, that might be in the works, that would redeem this decision, even convert it into a move that would leave us all gasping with admiration at their deviousness, that would restore faith in their judgment.

Maybe they plan to dismantle the Dept of Homeland Security, which would be expected to lead to the disbanding of the Senate committee with oversight over that Dept. Joe will get to be chairman of a committee that doesn’t exist anymore, but won’t find out until all the other committees that his seniority might entitle him to have already been parceled out.

I know, I know. Too good to be true.

Zo! Den ve moost xert eenfluennce upown zose who ahr, oom how zhall ve zay, impresioneeble?

Vut zinks yuu ’bout dat?

Vid oot za doot, ve veer zumvut importink in za eelecshun, in ze spytt of vut za toking haids vood zay, eh?

Obi wil have a failed presidency unless this nation makes some pretty radical changes in how it works

probably so. maybe even only one term.

Maybe if there was somebody so FAR to the left of us that it made us look like the center he would listen…

Attention is destiny. –Sun Tzu

How about that one?

It certainly demonstrated the importance of dry cleaning.

yeah, well, i’ll believe it when i see it.

Margot gets a BINGO!

And Sun Tzu!

A lot of it will hinge on how the economy is going. Presidents get the credit or blame regardless of the fact that they wield very little actual influence over it.

lol, that or the importance of no policy of withdraw.

I’ll do it.

Isn’t that part of the Bush Doctrine?

I want them to build a replica of a Guantanamo cell in the Bush Library and keep Bush in it for the rest of his life

That would be my idea of “postpartisan unity”

ja

lol. i have enough trouble with english as it is.

not impressionable – maybe just not engaged in these issues. and exerting influence sounds too much like an attempt at manipulation to me (don’t think that’s what you meant though).

naomi klein on saturday was bemoaning the lack of popular education – the kind that used to be done by the unions. iirc she asked, what if all the money the unions spent on the elections had been spent on educating the public about the bailout?

maybe there is something we could do along those lines?

or we could, you know, move left a bit?

too localized, a world stage of international unity would be much better.

Have at it. I’ll bake cookies. Are inmates at Supermax allowed to receive packages? If not, I’ll have to eat the cookies too. Just glad I can contribute in some way…

I’m trying to formulate an effective response to today’s vote on Lieberman. Progressives are stuck in a similar position to the religious fundamentalists in the GOP– we’re an important component of the Party, they love our votes and our grassroots energy, but we’re not powerful enough to throw our weight around. The Senate Democrats clearly don’t fear any retribution from us. So, what to do? I’d like to figure out a way to make the old boys and girls in the taxpayer-sponsored private club known as the U.S. Senate feel some real pain over this, but it’s not clear to me how to go about taking action. Witholding money or refusing to volunteer or doing anything that hurts Democrats doesn’t make any sense. Anyone got a useful suggestion? We’ve got to find a way to become relevant at moments like this.

hey you guys, want to have some fun? go over to Dailykos and take a look at the teeth gnashing and infighting over there. lulz. it’s the pinnacle of hilarity. those partisan hacks want to believe that they know real politik and are so much more mature than 3rd party supporters and those to their left who support “dead enders” like Nader. they love to call themselves progressives and the big cheese himself, kos, is always talking about “more and better democrats” and how they are the progressives that make power plays and are “living in reality.” its hilarious.

the fact of the matter is the two party system is a joke and the inauspicious start of the Obama admin. is proof. corporate party a and corporate party b are buddy buddy behind closed doors, and owe their ultimate allegiance to their corporate
paymasters. 3rd party candidates are the only solutions for real progressives. there is no progress or change within the democratic party. they are much worse and corrupt than the republican party, and we all know how corrupt those guys are. the fact of the matter is that democrats are worse because they pretend to stand for some sort of principles, but in the end, once the facade is broken, we see what they are really made of.

think of all those hopeful grassroots and netroots activists who bought into Obama’s act wholesale. gave money, knocked on doors, convinced their family to vote dem. now they look and see rahm, larry summers, hawk hilary at secretary of state, joementum emerges unscathed, no tortue justice, the war machine simply changing venues, etc, etc, etc.

cry your eyes out idiots. and next time you want to mock 3rd party candidates as “irrelevant,” go ahead. your vote is irrelevant, your opinion is irrelevant, only your money is relevant you mark, you monkey, you serf.

oh but dont take my word for it, just ask chris hedges what he thinks: truthdig.com

yeah, that’s good on many different levels.

i don’t have anymore attention to give right now. i’m sorry, but i don’t. have come very close to burning out entirely.

just want to do better within my constraints.

Sounds like DrBong has us covered.

lol, just regurg like a bird.

He told us so in his “Open Letter” about the PAA after everyone was upset when he reneged on his Primary Campaign promise regarding FISA and retroactive immunity, “If that’s a deal breaker, that’s OK.” He had secured the nomination and no longer required our services. Why this was not made a bigger deal at the time escapes me, but there it is.

That’s it precisely, selise …

We have the capacities, the talent and what else is truly worth spending our time upon?

The information this site can provide simply runs circles around the MSM, for example.

To the extent that there are lefty ‘think tanks, well here are the people we’ve been waiting for.

That is not boastful nonsense …it is dire necessity.

They love our votes and DONATIONS. Then we can go Cheney ourselves until the next election cycle…

which starts tomorrow.

Margot,
Just googled that guy( Sun Tzu) and bush don’t git past first page. WOW if we had googled it before the Iraq war we wouldn’t be melting in a financial kind of way.

yeah, well, i basically agree. Replacing corporate dems with progressive dems will take a long time and is, foreseeably, the better option.

Should we start a pool on the month when Joe Lieberman ratfucks President Obama and America?

-G

don’t agree witht calling anyone an idiot. we’re all just trying to do our best…

btw, i agree with much of what you wrote… except that i think we are at our best when we include those who work inside the party and those who work outside and all respect the work that each does.

my 2 cents

I prefer brownies

grrrr.

Just as well, prolonged Cheneying of oneself can cause serious chafing.

look, we knew (or should have known) what Obama is and isn’t about. Heck, we taked about it here. He is not a liberal, has never been a liberal, and has made no secret that he’s not a liberal. He is not going to suddenly become one. This being said, he is the man we elected, and I believe now (although I so believe during the primary and run-up to the primary, when he was, for exactly the reasons so many of us seem to complaining now, easily my fourth choice after Edwards, Clinton and, I admit it, a Gore in-the-wings) that he is right man.. because of what he symbolizes about America, or rather what a forward-looking and race/ethnicity/origin-blind America might look like. I’m not expecting him or asking him to change his long-held beliefs for me.

Still, this thing with Lieberman does not sit well, not because I think its postpartisan (which is what Obama is all about), or because a traitor is a traitor is a traitor, and should be despised by everybody, because he demonstrably has no loyalties to anyone and therefore cannot be trusted be anyeone. I cannot believe for a moment that this sits well with Rahm, whose Machiavellian political instincts must be telling him that Joe should be exiled to Yucca Mountain without a radiation suit. Simply put, Lieberman did not merit the status of post-partisan poster boy. He’d have done better to be filmed embracing McCain or giving Defense to Hagel.

Macaroni…

I just hope that Obama pulled Joe aside before pushing for his retaining his gavel and said (like I say to my 6-year old) “if you just so much think about stepping out of line, I will fuck you like…. well, like you fucked me. But much worse.

I suspect that this is exactly what happened. It seems that most people agree that Obama is the calculating sort; I’m guessing that he’s thinking of that magic 60. No, he will _not_ throw away a possible advantage on the grounds that Joe probably won’t go along to get along. He’ll have had a little private chat with Lieberman first, something along those lines I quoted above. Then if Holy Joe steps out of line, that will be when the hammer comes down. I’m guessing that the message will be doubly effective: “If you work against me, and nothing comes of it, I’ll let it be, call in the favor later. If you work against me, and successfully oppose something on my agenda, you’ll never see daylight again.”

I’m wondering if Lieberman is smart enough to see the precariousness of his situation; maybe the whole game is to set him up to be this object lesson.

January!

Very much in the “make me do it” mode. And that’s a smart strategy – if he’s not acting out some egotistical agenda of his own.

Make him do it. There are plenty of signs he’s plenty liberal – but he’s not going to achieve his goals by fiat.

That’s actually why he’s 100 times more “conservative” than Bush ever was, and a legitimate reason why millions voted for him. He’s not a lunatic with a battle-axe. He’s careful, but will push where he feels there’s opportunity.

I’ve been enthusiastic about Obama because I really do feel he reflects my own attitude: liberal in goals, conservative in execution.

That’s more likely to produce lasting change than, say, signing statements and radical executive orders that can be rapidly overturned after the next election.

The Bush years only make sense if you realize they really planned to twist the whole machinery of government into a partisan, corrupt too. Rove wanted us to be less like America, and more like China.

Thankfully, the American people seem to have opted out of that scheme.

i don’t think we have enough money to get a majority (of better dems), that doesn’t mean i don’t think a big difference can be made by strategic targeting, i do. and i love howie klein. but i don’t think we can beat the deep pockets at their own game – we do however have other assets that can be used, i hope, for movement building.

21st!

-G

DING!
Have to agree with you, except that I somewhat reluctantly put him ahead of Hillary and never seriously believed Gore would come in. Hillary was (and is) far too hawkish on foreign policy and I was not happy about her campaign after Edwards dropped out. If you wanted a liberal you should have supported Edwards or Kucinich, who were the only toe real liberals in the race.

well, i guess that could be turned into a proper circus in today’s media environment.

Brownies sandwiched between two cookies is probably the way to go.

I did support Edwards. He dropped out three or four days before our caucuses, as I recall. Didn’t feel there was much choice but to support O after that.

Fun to imagine an alternate universe where Kucinich got the nomination. The wingnuts would have convulsions.

I think the only thing Lieberman can see is his own greatness, infallibility and invincibility.

I liked Edwards too but it didn’t seem like his heart was really in it this time, even before they learned Elizabeth was sick. Guess we know now what was weighing on his mind.

never said it’d be soon or without cost.

Also, I’m one of those who is completely open to caucusing with independents.

21st n 1/2!

Actually I am with you. Here in Montana we have the last primary in the nation (early June) and he was long gone. Originally I was going to sit out the primary because I really wasn’t wild about either of them, but then Hillary pissed me off.

I wonder whether Obama forced the Democratic Senatorial caucus to give Short Ride a free ride just to prove to them that he could…

rather than waiting for such a test on something he considers really important

if like me, you would have preferred kucinich, the education of your friends family and anyone you can reach begins now if not sooner.

December 2008. no, November 19th, 2008.

He really was the most progressive of the candidates, if a bit of a flake (in a good way). Unfortunately he never had a serious chance. In retrospect, it looks like it is just as well Edwards dropped out as well, even if it should not matter (and I would say the same thing about any candidate).

Wow, I had never heard of that. Surely they didn’t keep it at the WH all the time?

you could maybe that baby to death too.

I feel like we still have Ted Kennedy to make healthcare universal, and it seems he is working on it full steam to push it through as soon as Obama takes over in January. Hillary I think will not let this slip out of her grasp either no matter where she lands in or out of the administration. I am not going to be able to afford my private insurance much longer so I am praying something happens soon.

if i recall correctly, he did pull him aside in chambers, was in his face, in his obama way, right before liekingmoon started going ‘rouge’ again.

December, 2008. If not November.

I refuse to indulge in tea leaf reading at this stage. Once he gets into office and starts to work we will have a better feel for what he is about. Right now we just do not have enough information. We do not even have any confirmed appointments, except Rahm, at this point.

i am rooting for you andus but in spite of kennedy, hillary or whomever, it seems to me there are greater powers in the corporatocracy, (read: health insurance companies,) who have the power and will keep it from happening.

My conservative friends here in Texas are starting to believe my argument that by this time next year, they will be happier with BO than I will be.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not going to whine about him and he’s much better than GWB, but he ain’t no liberal.

I kind of hope the two of them can “force” Obama to go for single payer healthcare.

I like Kucinich a lot, although the only ostensible reason for him to run for president was to try to steer the debate and I never saw any evidence that happened. He is one of the handful in Congress who actually have the courage to tell the truth without first weighing the political consequences.

His smeared legacy. That’s all for him…sad.

I’m sure it was unintentional, but your comment just gave me a sudden vision of Lieberman in drag, dancing at the Moulon Rouge in Paris…

where’s the brain bleach?

Not sure about that. There is a lot of emerging support for single payer in the business community as they look at the impact of rising healthcare and insurance costs on their bottom line. I think there is a good chance this thing could go through.

the trick is to get the american public tuned in to how much more honesty he is than 98% of the rest of our politicians. from both sides i hear a deep distrust of these guys and yet, for whatever reason, we cannot sell dennis. i think we have to be able to do better.

Never was. A very moderate centrist who leans corporate on some issues and progressive on others. To my mind slightly less corporate than Clinton.

That’s the issue. Do we have the strength?

I’m pretty certain you saw Ian’s post yesterday about health care being a major factor that keeps the Detroit automakers in the hole.

i hope you are right. it seems like a pipe dream to me and i do not even have any complicated health costs. so in that scenario what happens to the health care companies like blue shield, aetna, untied health care, kaiser?…

Another room, another view:

http://driftglass.blogspot.com…..-reid.html

I agree with you, and I hope we are right correct about the latter

He doesn’t LOOK presidential. It’s all about style over substance, unfortunately.

Blackmail Mission Accomplished

Watching today’s caucus debacle, Lieberman’s feigned paranoia over democrats achieving a filibuster proof super majority is just that … paranoia.

It would take 85 to 90 democrats in the senate to block a filibuster given the current state of party discipline no matter how vital the legislation.

Harry Reid talks like he’s been held in Guantanamo Bay for the past two years, and is unaware of Obama/Biden’s 365 – 173 electoral vote mandate. No surprisingly, he’s still committed to achieving a zero approval rating for the senate.

We’ll soon see if the president-elect’s move to preserve Lieberman’s HSGA chairmanship has created an ace in the hole or a black adder for the incoming administration.

An interesting test of wills, indeed — Obama’s discipline & consensus building v. Lieberman’s temple of whorer’s & hypocrites.

Yep. It is one of their biggest costs – as it is for all major corporations. They are rapidly seeing single payer as a way to dump those costs onto the government. It helps that all of their international competition already has done that.

funny thing is i see single payor health care in a similar light to how i see unions. unions have been demonized by the right since the 40s. slowly but surely they have been successfully derided to such a degree that today many otherwise sane and reasonable people have a knee jerk reaction to the mere mention of unions. my last boss thought they were responsible for virtually every ill in society. so if we cannot get people to see unions in the right light light, how will we get them to go for single payor health care?

time will tell indeed

and welcome to the lake – i’m not recognizing your moniker (and if my faulty memory is once again faulty, please acccept my apology for not remembering your name)

that is a shame. probably true, but a shame. i prefer substance.

Not sure. Private insurance is still available in Europe, but largely only used by the affluent to get pricey private care. For many of these companies they insure more than just health, so they shift their emphasis to those areas. Frankly I don’t give a damn if most of them go under after the way they have fucked over the American people for the last couple of decades. Most of their workers could be absorbed by the federal program.

It’s not to say a candidate can’t possess style AND substance but if they’ve only got one, they won’t get far with just the latter.

Appearance is part of it. He also holds some beliefs that seem outlandish to most Americans. I am not sure that America is ready just yet to elect a vegan.

I’m out, have a splendid evening, all.

Greetings Suzanne, No problem — it’s been a long time since I posted a comment, even though read FDL every day.

We have had eight years ruled by ideologues, it’s time for a pragmatist. Joe now owes Obama BIG TIME. LIEberman being the perpetual opportunist will roll over to get his belly rubbed. If you want to be post partisan, you have to walk the walk. It makes those who are partisan look petty and small. Obama had every right to talk as bad about Joe as Joe talked about him and kick him to the curb. All that would do is diminish Obama. Look at the big picture folks. We are so used to partisan hacks we forgot what leadership looks like. Now, it’s up to us to keep the heat on him. We just have to pick our battles well and not sweat the small stuff.

Night, rf.

i don’t mind vegan. i’d prefer he never said he had seen a ufo but aside from that one thing, i have only heard clear and coherent ideas from him, and a badass speech at this year’s convention.

Yes, it sure is.

I am willing to give Obama some slack, even though this kind of pisses me off. He is a Chicago machine politician and those boys play rough and shrewd (spent 12 years in Chicago). We will see just how good he is at this game.

Suz you have mail..
You mean you DO remember things /S

then welcome back and i’m looking foward to reading more of what you have to say

Yeah, it’s the whole package. Don’t forget he claims to have seen a UFO. The fact that he has a smart and beautiful wife ought to serve as some sort of inspiration to me but the fact that one short quirky guy already won the lottery just makes my odds that much more remote. Oh well.

I have nothing against vegans either (at least not for breakfast), but was simply addressing the issue of public perceptions. Many of his views are outside the mainstream and therefor arose suspicion in many people that he is not “a serious person.” (Repeating that I am not one of those).

gnite everyone

Night eCAHN.

I hear you and I feel the same. Very weary.

good for you then. you must be a thinking person who judges ideas on merit as opposed to on whether they fit into the mainstream. (can you sense my frustration with many of my friends and loved ones?)

that’s funny.

nite pups.

I am an academic who has spent almost 40 years in a university environment. Tends to make you fairly open to different kinds of people. I am also a cultural anthropologist, so I kind of enjoy diversity.

Night dmac.

Time will tell if we elected someone who is for the common people or is just another Corporatist! We just need to keep Obama and the Dems feet to the fire and keep letting them know just what we want. Like Single payer Health Insurance. Personally I would like to see the insurance companies kicked out of the Health Cate arena completely, they are the biggest reason health care is so fucked up and costs so much. Middlemen always want their piece of the action and think they are entitled to the lion’s share of the money! Besides the fact of them denying care for so many after they were already paid for the insurance! I wonder just how many lives were lost because the patient was denied the care they needed to stay alive!

Damn academics

Put us smart people to shame.

;~P

As a socialist, I have always felt the need to keep pushing politicians as far to the left as they would go.

i’ll 2nd all that nahant. and add that not everyone who receives subpar healthcare dies. some just have to live with pain. subpar healthcare has all kinds of adverse effects.

an academic and a socialist? please sign me up for your fan club. i’m in.

I think you are the only living member. Well, except my son and grandkids, but that’s for other reasons.

He won’t mind pressure from the left hand side. If he isn’t particularly liberal, then pressure from the left is even more important.

Earth to “the left”: Obama ain’t listening and he could give a rat’s ass what you think. He got what he wanted by letting you delude yourselves that he’s in agreement with progressive ideas and policies – nothing could be further to the truth. Welcome to the the inauguration of the disappointing age of Obama.

And in the long run ends up costing more money!

pleuge, i recommend viewing obama as the furthest candidate to the left on the political spectrum who was actually electable, (even though hillary was just about the same candidate.) so even if you view obama as to the right or conservative, (which would be a reasonable assertion,) he is still as far left as we can reasonably expect middle america to vote at this time. more evidence there is a lot of work to do which has nothing to do with candidates but is all about getting people educated.

We pay substantially more for healthcare than any other industrialized country and get worse results.

Pretty much true. I actually think that the people would have voted for someone somewhat further to the left, but they could no get the backing from the power brokers and money boys to make it through the primary process (which is all about sucking up to those folks).

hence, they aare unelectable.

(peeking around the corner after brushing my teeth on my way to hit the feathers and heard this–)
paul simon on colbert tonight, singing one of my favorite songs of all time.

don’t miss it.

gnite.

For me the biggest potential negative about Obama is the letdown he may represent. There’s a regular contributor at TPMCafe that has on a couple of occasions compared the sense of future and euphoria that Obama generates to that of Pierre Trudeau when he first ran for Prime Minister in Canada. I’ve once pointed out the gross error in that poster’s recollection. Trudeau was Canada’s Justice Minister. He was going to bring Canada a “Just Society.” He was the hope for a troubled divided nation of ‘two solitudes.’ One of those solitudes was planting bombs and voicing upset and anger and the other didn’t quite know how to handle the situation. Trudeau was “the one” who would bridge the divide. Trudeau was the “hope” and “dream” for a united, fair and prosperous nation. There was only one problem with all that. Trudeau was full of shit. Worse, Trudeau used that sense that he was the only answer that Canada had for a united nation to keep himself in power or close to power for decades. He wasn’t the answer. Not even close. He was for himself. And I’m not even mentioning the martial law that his “just society” quickly invoked.

But that’s only secondary to the real danger that Obama represents. It was the lie of Trudeau’s “Just Society” that cost the most. It was the lie of the dream and the hope. Most of those that were inspired by those sentiments and took part in the wave to bring about change and a better future saw the lie and never believed again. More than becoming more discerning the disillusioned no longer believed and no longer took part in efforts to bring about a better future through more honest movements for a better Canadian society.

That’s the danger of Obama. He ran on soaring words that were vague (got to give him that – his promises were airy fairy). But the vagueness meant everyone saw what they hoped to see in a better future. Obama worked that perfectly and that in many ways represents a bigger lie if he doesn’t follow through or at least make a very real attempt to follow through on the hopes and dreams he talked about.

All those “Democrats” that came out to vote Democrat, waited on line for hours on end in many cases, won’t be there next time if Obama keeps pulling FISA shivs and Lieberman House of Lords maneuvers. The dream of a wave of Democrats bringing a wave of democracy will die with Obama. If those that are disillusioned by the process return, they’re just as likely to vote Republican as Democrat or any party. They’re far more likely to have narrow expectations from politicians. Expectations like lower taxes and less government.

That’s the danger I’ve always seen in Obama. Obama and the Democrat party’s backing of Lieberman shows an arrogance and disdain for average voters and the representative democracy that America is supposed to be. It’s a disdain not just for the “angry left.” That’s bullshit being pushed by the usual suspects, though Democrats here. The Democrats are showing they’re as much a House of Lords as the worst Republicans. Reid talks about being proud of what was done in supporting Lieberman but apparently not proud enough to have an open ballot on that support. America’s democratic representatives don’t want Americans to know how they vote or act. And they’re proud of that.

Obama. Hope dreams.

Yep.

If we seriously want to move the system to the left, we are going to have to push through a variety of changes to break the hold of the power brokers and money boys. Firstly, we need to dramatically shorten the campaign season. I see no reason why they should be anymore than 6 months from filing to general election (also everybody holds primaries on the same day – Congress can do that) Three months for the primary and three months for the general. Cuts costs dramatically. Also require broadcast media to give a fixed amount of free time to all (anybody who can get on the ballot) candidates and prohibit any other ad buys. I think Obama has also provided a new model for running and financing a campaign which helps in this regard.

obama talks like every other politician. he is no more vague than anyone outside of nader and kucinich and perhaps bernie sanders. i believe he is a good man whose heart is in the right place. yes, he is far from liberal enough for my tastes and i voted for him with clenched teeth, (to whatyever degree,) but those of us on the left are pushing for and towards the future. obama may be the guy who recognizes the limitations of moving forward and is more prepared to address the correct pace that the most of americans can handle.
prop 8 will be over turned. we are always moving forward, evolving, and getting better. i support obama even if i will denounce his support on the bailout or his vote on the telecom immunity or whatever else. right now i am pissed he is saying we need to move forward with no justice for the outgoing creeps.

Off to bed. Take care all and don’t give up too soon.

nite doctor

again, the problem with this idea is that it is nearly anti-capitalism. the media wants to cover it way in advance because it interests people and generates ad money. they will fight your idea tooth and nail.

I’m sure it worked, PW.
I’m just not sure yet for whom.

If RGJoe shivs him, he cannot say he has not been warned.
If Obama simply owns his ass and he makes good on it, it will have been almost worth it. Almost.

… i mean Ian…

If anybody wants to read a hilarious interview…

Nate Silver interviews Ziegler about the Zogby ‘push poll’

Dear Folks,

We all know that Joe Lieberman is a Benedict Arnold, a real traitor to the Democratic Party. He called Obama un-patriotic and possibly, a Marxist, all of which he knows (and you know) are lies. In addition, Joe is a chickenshit chickenhawk (talk five deferments during Vietnam), someone who would send others to wars he (and his children and grandchildren) are too cowardly to fight.

Joe is a former friend and roommate of mine at Yale, but I totally disavow his smarmy lying about Iraq and its non-existent connection to al-Queda or 9/11. He is personally responsible for the bloody deaths of many Americans and Iraqis, much like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. He should not be forgiven for his many lies against America and Barack Obama.

For political purposes (or perhaps because he is truly closer to being a Christ figure than I am), Obama gave Liberman a pass for his many lies and sins against the American Constitution and the Democratic Party. I’m afraid I cannot. I know Joe better than Obama. He is an unrepentent asshole and always will be.

Do not trust Joe Lieberman to do what is right for Obama and the country. Those who truly know him know that he is a supercilious and arrogant neo-conservative who is concerned only about himself and his own political survival, not about his country. In the end, Joe Lieberman is a total political scumbag. Please do not forget this.

Sincerely,
David Wyles

P.S. And this is from a former Yale roommate who predicted then that Joe would be the first Jewish President of the United States. Thank God, I was wrong (by 347 votes).

P.P.S. Harry Reid has the balls of a bull-tweetie canary. What a useless piece of Mormon shit. (I wouldn’t care if he was Mormon if he had any balls. Harry is a total f*cking wuss.)

Do you have a link for that, please?

He’s clearly a liberal. Everything in his background shows you this. He’s also a pragmatist and likely weighs things differently than other folks. It seems clear that 60 senators was more important to him than kicking Joe out. Is he going to regret that? Maybe on some things but probably not on others. As far as the bailout goes it was meant to prevent panic and total collapse before he got into office. However, if you want to be mad at someone, be mad a Reid and the Senate Democrats who again abdicated their roles as an independent branch of the government.

AFAIK, we’re still planning unseat House Maj. Leader Steny Hoyer in the 2010 Democratic primary. That’s a tall order, but it would definitely strike fear into some Dem Senators.

If you haven’t already tried, you might consider telling your carrier that. They may lower your rates to something that’s more manageable for you?????

Post election, I have no problem with criticizing Obama. I think it’s also important to keep some perspective, he received 53% of the popular vote. Feingold wasn’t going to get elected POTUS.

I am hoping that JoeLie’s hold on the chair of the da Fatherland Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee is contingent on him carrying some serious water to his constituents about the two-state solution in Israel/Palestine. bmaz had a terrific tea-leave reading post over at emptywheel’s about this, but it didn’t include any speculation about JoeLie.

Interesting, the after election perspective…..Looking back, it’s quite apparent the media picked our candidates. The Republicans didn’t stand a chance, so they picked old McCain to sacrifice and brought in Palin for a little air time to get her up to speed and whip up the hate in the USA, thus dividing us further.

It was quite obvious who would be in the Democrats dog and pony show nearly from the beginning….the not too offensive center-right candidates. They marginalized true liberals very early on. Remember Kucinich? well HE didn’t stand a chance what with wanting to impeach the corporations’ Saint Bush and all. He was a NUT! Right ON!

When people show you who they are, BELIEVE them! Rahm Emmanuel was the first dead give away

Calling the netroots! Step to the right, if you please.

My 18 year old daughter accompanied me to the voting precinct. We both voted for Obama. We had to stand in line for about an hour and suffer the ugly comments from the Hillary voters – she carried the precinct here in El Paso, Texas, by something like 90%. When we got home, my kid said words to the effect that I shouldn’t worry, that Obama was going to bring real change. I told her not to be so starry eyed, that that was not the way the game was played in Washington.

Today, I am pissed and she is disappointed. I am pissed for my kid and all the young people who cast their vote for the very first time, believing that some sort of action based on substantive hope was in the offing. Amos Anan, you have hit it right on the head.

Early on in the campaign, I posted a comment on some site or other to the effect that hope without action was a gossamer, rather like theology without activism. I was vilified as an Obama doubter, as having taken his words out of context.

A couple of days ago I posted my disappointment at the hiring of Emanuel and the negative signals this sent for any kind of peace in the middle east. Some fellow threw a slew of pro-Israeli links at me and claimed I was blowing out my ass.

Obama is no liberal, and to his credit, he never claimed that he was. He did claim that he was a lawyer, a professor of constitutional law, and here is where I think that a betrayal can be argued, far beyond the question of who he is naming for what position in his cabinet.

Betrayal is a strong word, but in my world, you either defend the Constitution or you don’t. The executive is always possessed of discretion, but discretion can be absent or abused. Far too early
on, Obama has signaled that the crimes of the Bush administration will not be prosecuted. Greenwald has eloquently explored the subject:

Here, X = “eavesdropping on Americans with no warrants,” and “torturing detainees,” and “destroying evidence relating to investigations,” and “interfering in criminal prosecutions for political purposes.” Those are crimes — felonies — in every sense of the word, not policy differences. And they are all actions in which Bush officials have clearly engaged.

And a columnist for a Philadelphia newspaper has considered the consequences of this no proseution “slippery slope”.

Putting the past behind us, moving forward. That has always been the way, ever since that Sunday morning in 1974 when Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon, an act that most of the punditocracy has since hailed as one that healed the nation (although, frankly, during the malaise of the Ford and Carter years it was hard to tell). But did letting Richard Nixon remain a free man truly save the republic, or did the pardon embolden the Reagan administration to defy Congress and carry out the Iran-Contra scheme, knowing that America didn’t want a rehash of Watergate. And did the lack of impeachment and the subsequent pardon of key Iran-Contra figures like Casper Weinberger and Elliot Abrams (recycled in the Bush administration!) encouraging bolder moves, including fishy pardons by Bill Clinton that weren’t investigated by the Bush Justice Department, with the ensuing lack of outcry convincing the president there was zero downside to commuting the sentence of Scooter Libby, and now today we have President-elect Obama determined to pull a Gerald Ford, even when the alleged crime is as abhorrent as torture.

Surely this is shredding the Constitution and the rule of law just as effectively as Bush did. Only the method is different. It is sobering to me that a prosecutor and a grand jury in Willacy County, Texas, have shown a far greater respect for the rule of law than that shown by our President-elect. It is hard to believe that it’s all about cojones, but is there really any other answer?

It is the young first-time voters who have been betrayed, who will be taught, by our President-elect’s first substantive lesson, that presidents and high government officials are immune from prosecution.

Shame on him.