But in the new spirit of reconciliation, which is why I think Barack Obama got elected by 66% of the under 35 vote

Silly me, I thought he got elected to change things up.

Jane!

I think you had Howard squirming a little bit there!

Meet the new boss, same as the. . .

silly jane, looking into whether joe is actually qualified would violate the spirit of comity in the senate!

In related news, after lambasting casey for supporting Joe (you know he did), casey’s flack told me “yeah, like santorum is so much better.”

She wasn’t too happy when I pointed out that Bob casey and rick Santorum voted the same way on Iraq (blank checks); voted the same way on FISA (more domestic spying); vote the same way on abortion and stem cell reserach; and vote the same way on gay rights.

I want to send them my nephews shit-fileld idapers with a note that says “change this.”

Scorecard:

Jane Hamsher…..Impressive!

Howard Dean……….not …

OK ALL CAPS…JAW DROPPED
MY FAVE HOWARD DEAN HAS JUST FLABERGASTED ME!!!!

I think Obama is taking this Team of Rivals thing a little too seriously. What’s next, Rush Limbaugh as head of the FCC?

Extremely disappointing, especially the fact that they sent Dean out without even familiarizing themselves with legitimate concerns from the most informed group of citizenry that’s out there.

They really buy into the people in pajamas behind the computer image, now don’t they? (typed by me in my suit at work)

thats it…….how very sad and demoralizing

shiite,they would rather talk about Obies mystery dog,than
rape gurneys PUTRID record

The united front of politician and Beltway pundants alike, over Jumping Joe, really shows the mindset and level of disregard to a standard of conduct so pervasive as to render “Change” dead on arrival. That Obama supports Joe further indicated a continued time in the wilderness for progressives and true agents of change.

Oh this is depressing. Howard Dean, usually so sharp, bought the “revenge” meme rather than the “integrity” meme. I think we are screwed. Frankly, I’m less concerned about feeling personally screwed than fearing that the collegial, “respectful” atmosphere of the Senate is being preserved at any cost and that the enormous crimes of the Bush admin will simply be forgotten in this phony spirit of reconciliation. Very very troubling.

i absolutly adore INTREPID JANE

Ya know Christy was just talking about how juries can tell when they are being lied to … the sweaty brow … the lack of conviction …especially when confronted by a ‘good’ questioner …

This makes my blood boil. It’s all too convenient to cast this only as not giving in to angry retribution to the exclusion of the substantive reasons he does not deserve to retain his chair, i.e dereliction of his oversight duty in the face of extensive gross misconduct.

OT and maybe old news…NPR says that we may well know re the Alaska Stevens/begich election by 9 PM Eastern time today!! And, today is Stevens 85th birthday,so….

GOOD way past his prime

Hell, Lieberman probably won’t even be alive in 2012. And if CT wants him, let um have him.

Where Dean gets off saying that Obama got “a mandate for reconciliation” I don’t know. I didn’t see any of that under 35 crew with buttons saying, “O’pleasereconcilewithBushandMcCainandPalinandNorquist’bama.

Change.

Hell, if Obama twisted arms to force EVERY Senate chair out of their seat it would probably be met with hosannas. Change. It’s like “accountability” isn’t it? Obama and Pelosi can run on it, then take it off the table before people can get their napkin to their lap.

HOWARD DEAN: … I never looked into what he was doing as the Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. I was too busy figuring out how to win the election.

Go figure out how you are going to win the next one, Guv. Fool me once,….

Where Dean gets off saying that Obama got “a mandate for reconciliation”

——————–
this is INTOLERABLE

2 party system!!!…dont want repuke light

What DWBartoo said @ 5.

Howard Dean now carryin’ water for these people. We gotta find and destroy those vats of Kool-Aid in DeeCee.

I don’t think stripping (one) Joe Lieberman of his chairmanships hardly qualifies as a purge. I don’t think 66% of the under 35 vote was for some contrived notion of “spirit of reconcilliation,” it was for CHANGE! Barack Obama’s message is being hijacked by the old guard inside the Washington beltway.

Why is Dr. Dean even weighing in on Joe Liberman, when he obviously has no knowledge of what Liberman did? I think the Democrats that were too busy running for office and winning the election should have some videos of McCain Town Hall meetings played back for them to hear exactly what Joe said all that time before they voted on Liberman today. I don’t think any of them are even aware of what Liberman said at all! Jeez.

I think the main issue here is that there is a difference of opinion about what Obama’s mandate is. Apparently, Howard Dean and the rest of the Dem senators believe that the mandate was strictly one of reconciliation. The grassroots believes it to be one calling for a substantive shift in policy. Until the Democratic leadership is convinced that the country was in fact calling for a different set of policies and a different agenda, they will continue to cave into the (increasingly marginalized) Republicans, including Joe Lieberman, as they have done here.

I don’t think you were told to go screw yourselves at all,

i have to agree with dean on this one. i think i was told to fuck off back in june with the fisa/telco capitulation. since then i don’t think they’ve given me or people like me one thought. it’s as though we’re invisible.

I don’t recall any Obama “reconciliation we can believe in” bumper stickers. What is Dean talking about?

Obama ran on change, not reconciliation. I know, I watched the campaign on TeeVee

I for one will not become anti-Dean this soon after November 4th.

We hurt Joe’s feelings in 2006.
AP Story on Joe’s hurt feelings.

BOOYAH!
Right on Miss Jane, it IS about a great deal more than Liebermans comments and conduct during the election, it is also very much about his complete abdication of the oversight the position at Homeland Security is meant to have.

Well, that and he is a complete ass.

I never looked into what he was doing as the Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. I was too busy figuring out how to win the election. So I don’t want to get into a debate on whether he’s qualified or not.

I understand that – as DNC chair, it wasn’t part of his job. But he doesn’t have to approve of what the caucus did, and he can speak out against it.

The election wasn’t a mandate for reconciliation, it was a mandate for throwing the current SOBs out of office and prosecuting them for their crimes. If Obama doesn’t see that (and it looks like he’s planning to not see it) then he’s in for a rough ride.

There really must be something in the water inside the beltway that turns seemingly intelligent people into gibbering idiots after they’ve been there a while.

Either that or the pod people have managed to take them over. Can anyone check the basement of the Capital Building? They’ve got to be keeping those pods somewhere…

If the Senate Dems are spineless

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/…..fldAuto=33

Then lets turn up the heat on Joe friend of Israel and the Neocons not saying word one about Saudi Arabia getting Nuclear Reactors. I’m sure Jewish voters will be so pleased with Bush and Joe about that!
If we can get Joe one way lets hit him from another direction.

http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/1302

Shame on you for suggesting that weak appointee. The FCC need a strong leader, like Rupert Murdoch. /s

Regarding my last comment, I should have said that Dean and the Dem leaders’ view on Obama’s mandate is that it is one of strict “bipartisanship” (or non-conflict with Republicans), rather than one of actual leadership based on a different agenda and policies.

Damn, Jane, why aren’t you and Christy asking the questions on ‘60 Minutes’ instead of the limp dishrags they’ve got now? I really enjoyed reading that butt-kicking you handed Dean. Of course this is our political aristocracy taking care of their own class, but it’s gratifying to see them called on it. Good work.

God Damn ! I Loves Me Some Hamsher !

That is Speaking Truth to Power.

thank you (((Jane)))), this one among 350 million voices is so very grateful to have your intelligent, rational, passionate voice speaking on her behalf

I’ve signed, you’re ALL Signing that damn Pledge !

kumbay-effin’-yah

Second that.

Great going Jane.

What part of change do they not understand?

A spokesperson for Dean says the calls were not specifically to talk about Lieberman, they just coincided with Reid’s announcement

So what, pray tell, was he holding a conference call for, to talk about the cold weather?

I watched Dean on some panel talking about the election, what went right and what went wrong. Dean was touting how much the internet helped Obama and how he now has this army of supporters behind him. Well Dr. Dean, you now have a mutiny on your hands.

The Dean boy is just trying to grab the frame and set it so it favors his view. Need to call the lad on this one and every time it is attempted, if needs be, use the liar word on ‘em.

silly Sparkles . . .he’s clearly slated for FDA

Looks like the Incumbent Protection Racket bought Howard, too.

Hey Jane? Are you out there? I just got a question on my diary which I cannot answer. Someone asked if we have a candidate to go up against Boehner?

Can you help answer that question? I have no idea if we do.

I pretty much got the idea then too.

Yeah Change not forgiveness thank you sir may I have another. And Joe will smack Obama again its only a question of when. Real forgiveness involves an apology an admission of wrong and an attempt to fix things.
Sure Obama can forgive him personally but to trust him publicly without any public admission of wrong is dumb.

At this point in time I have absolutely no guilt whatsoever about not having lifted a finger or sent a dollar to get Obama elected. Everything is going pretty much as I expected it to.

When I registered early for next summer’s Netroots Nation I said to my friends in the bolgisphere that either we will come together having been pleasantly surprised and have something to celebrate OR we will be on the warpath. I think I already know the answer to that.

And I hope Chambliss wins just so they can miss on the 60 and this capitulation to Joe comes back and bites them.

SNAFU, is the new operating system for the dems.

That was me:)!

So the idea is that Dean is putting out is that Obama uniting with the Republicans and with Joe Lieberman is OK and we should just suck it up. Isn’t this more of Democrats won the election and should now govern like Republicans? And what is Dean doing defending Lieberman when he isn’t informed about him? This is precisely the kind of episode that tars those who come near it. We liked both Dodd and Dean here. But their support of this idiocy has really soured me on both. How is that uniting? Lieberman gets what he wants and Obama, Dodd, and Dean look like enablers and chumps. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

thanks very much for the mp3 ! am lovin it

in light of today’s event’s mebbe should have asked for 34 minute live version of Goin’ Down the Road

OT

Is your cat okay?

Here’s a small, but unflattering story. A college prez who shall remain anonymous, was interviewing for prez of UVT when Dean was governor. During his iterview with Dean, it was clear that he was an egomaniac who wanted to be kowtowed to, and who was annoyed that he had to interview the candidates.

I like Dean in a lot of ways and think his 50 state strategy is brilliant. I especially admire him for pushing back against DLC forces in order to implement it.

But whenever I hear a story like the above about someone, it makes me always keep my eyes open for manifestations of the bad behavior.

check with Unca Howie over at Down With Tyranny.

I was wrong this morning and you were right – I also commented at #2 hundred and something from this morning’s thread saying the same thing, but am too lazy to go look that up.

Ditto.

You are right! I did not mean to sound so impersonal. I had not read who was commenting here…Just posted Jane my question.

Sorry, I missed seeing you here.

My regrets…I am sure Jane has the answer though.

Belated birthday greetings to you, klynn.

DWB

this is discouraging in the extreme, and throw in Holder and what started as a good day suck bigtime as the sun goes down here in maine. He’s not familiar with Lieb’s record?? Quoi?!

So far everything Obama and the newly Demmed up senate has done looks like more of the same dispiriting crap we heard after 2006 election. I am really pissed.

Really pissed.

What part of change do they not understand?

The part which differs from business as usual.

This big win today for Liberman, gives how much strength and credibility to the GOP side especially the McCain-Palin ticket?

Wow, just holy shit.

Even Howard, now playing coy n dumb.

I guess it’s really up to us.

Thank you Jane.

No Hassle I had just popped in:). I’m sure if we don’t have a candidate yet we will.
And HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

and hey, ’spirit of reconciliation’??? how about a little ’spirit of kicking ass’?

A constitutional amendment requiring all ballots have “None of the Above”, which if a plurality would reset the election with all new candidates.

I never looked into what he was doing as the Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. I was too busy figuring out how to win the election. So I don’t want to get into a debate on whether he’s qualified or not.

Yet he whole heartily buys into Lieberman’s frame that taking the gavel away would be ‘retribution’ rather than a demotion for doing poor performance.

Oy!

Is Howard going to see this:)?

join us in Pittsburgh next summer. We’ve got some insurrection planning to do.

Oh, Jane. What are you doing in 2012? Moving to CT, by any chance? ;-)

Not gonna happen. Get used to it.

I used to respect and defend Howard Dean to folks who would make fun of “the scream” and the 50 state strategy etc., though now he’s not the man I’d thought he was, nor will I ever defend him again. He’s apparently joined the spineless class of the Democratic Party.

Great job, Jane!

Normally a gavel is a reward now imagine what will happen to Dem discipline if Joe keeps his nothing will get done in the Senate.

That would be nice.

And selise, how is your tiger?

(For a moment, if you will all forgive me, I shouild like to speak of something more important than the stellar quality of Obama’s apparent or definite ‘picks’)

I knew there was a reason I didn’t take the ACLU’s “I’m a Constitution Voter” sticker off my truck.

Fair enough, but I won’t turn on him for having conference calls with bloggers even if the message is not what we want to hear.

Thanks! Your not too late! It’s today. I posted my thanks to Jane on my Oxdown at 12:02 AM today!

It made for confusion…

EdwardTeller has been reminding me ALL DAY that I share this wonderful day with…drum roll…Ted Stevens…I thought I would just post that point now; otherwise, he would be along in a bit, using his Dr, Evil pinky fingers to type a reminder to me!

more info please?

i feel like Lloyd Bridges in the movie Airplane, ” I picked a helluva time to quit smoking!”

Nice follow-up with Dean on Traitor Joe’s performance as Chairman, Jane. I do think there’s an information gap in Washington. It surprises me that Dean wasn’t aware that he essentially covered for Bush’s malfeasance. The ignorance must be more common than we think. It also extends to the view that we are no more than a set of vengeful DFH’s. I get this all the time from a colleague who is a Lieberdem, who thinks like Broder that the only way to get things done is to tack to the middle. Otherwise the Republiks we will be back in power in two years.

Our government is government of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich. It’s hard to change that combination. Let’s hope we get a little out of Obama, but it may be even more than he can manage. The only hopeful sign is the coming Great Depression, which like a hanging will concentrate minds.

TCU Thanks so much!

Oh no. We want to hear the unwanted message as soon as possible so we know what we’re up against. Actually, that’s one of Dean’s strong suits: he doesn’t know how to avoid or sugar coat.

Dean isn’t the one to blame for any of this. At least he was willing to make the call and converse. He doesn’t have a vote or even a seat in the club.

Obama called it and got what he wanted. He will have to live with it.

Chump Change.

Y’all be gettin’ a late start. I’m already workin’ on my to-do list.

Kinda makes you wonder if the “new administration” will have the cajones to appear ‘partisan’ and fire all the US attorneys.

Howard, as a long time Deaniac you disappoint me. Obama and Reid this goes for you too

What possible skills does Joe Lieberman bring as Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee that far surpass other members?

What does he bring that other members do not?

What experience does he have in intelligence matters that exceed other members of the committee?

What examples of exceedingly good judgment has he expressed regarding investigative matters?

I’m very disappointed in your lack of analytical skills Howard, perhaps you’re tired and should go back to Vermont

Jane, thank you for expressing our feelings so well. I don’t think they get it.

looks like kidneys failing. if she gets through the next bit, the vet says she could have another year or even more. i’ve been force feeding her (which sounds much worse than it is) and giving fluids subq for a couple of weeks but today she started throwing up. don’t know yet. i confess to being more attached to this particular cat than makes any sense whatsoever, but she’s a been with me through some v rough bits and is a real sweetheart.

Netroots Nation. Where the bloggers come together to raise hell. Hopefully we will have a full contingent of firedogs there next summer. We have lots of work to do!

Can I sit in the corner with ya? Same here, same results. There won’t be a take II either.

Hey – how about, in the spirit of reconciliation, we divy up the chairmanships? You know, one for the Dems, one for the Reps, one for the Dems, one for the …

I know that’s what “all the kids” want these days.

The online-friendly Dean gets sent out to deal with the online DFH’s. How quaint.

Dean has been DNC chair for how long? Holy Joe is the most famous former Democrat in the Senate. Homeland Security is a bureaucratic behemoth, created by the Bush administration, and is responsible for tens of billions in annual war, security and domestic policing expenditures. And Howard has never looked at ChapStick Joe’s record in overseeing DHS? Meanwhile, Obama does a Bush-on-Friday-afternoon kind of press release to tell us who his new AG will be.

Something tells me that the only oversight we’re going to see during Obama’s administration is over those who might spill the beans about what George and the Boyz were up to.

((((selise))))

We went through that with our cat. I had to give subq fluids and everything. I am sorry you are going through this.

Lastly, what’s with all this “reconciliation” bullshit? The entire election was now about reconciling with Joe Lieberman? Where and when did I miss Lieberman reconciling with us? As Jane said, this isn’t only about Lieberman getting what’s coming to him, it’s about his incompetence and/or compliance with the Bush Administration as Chair of the Homeland Security Committee oversight.

Yes, when the Reeps stole the election from us in 2000 and possibly in 2004, they were all about reconciliation….oh, and we’re also the party of hiring every former Clinton family friend and former Clinton Administration official, because “Change We Can Believe In.” Unless, “Change We Can Believe In” means screwing the base at every turn.

It surprises me that Dean wasn’t aware that he essentially covered for Bush’s malfeasance.

That doesn’t surprise me because Dean was not inside DC. He had an entirely different job, and it’s my impression that he worked hard at it.

I would be surprised if the senators who didn’t vote Lieberman off the island were ill informed.

Why go through the fuss of vetting Bill so Hillary can be SoS?

Condi could undoubtedly be persuaded to stay on.

How old is she?

Just watched the Harry Reid-Short Ride Love in Press Conference

Do not click unless you have an empty or a strong stomach – absolutely nauseating…..

We’ve already got lots on the lists. What we plot here is all out in the open. But when we get together in a big room face to face, lots more can happen. By then we will be gearing up for primary challenges. Let’s hope we can find real dems next time around. The hell with the “more dems” crap.

I never looked into what he was doing as the Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. I was too busy figuring out how to win the election. So I don’t want to get into a debate on whether he’s qualified or not.

This is what bothers me most about Dean’s response. The idea that “It’s all about winning”. Shouldn’t some thought be given to why people are running, what they stand for, not just that they win?

join us in Pittsburgh next summer. We’ve got some insurrection planning to do.

i never could justify the expense, etc before. but your plan for action is very tempting.

Best, selise.

Jane,
Thanks for taking advantage of this opportunity to press Gov. Dean! You spoke for legions of us who wanted to ask the same questions. I was, and am, a Deaniac since 2003

Do you think Obama got some IOU’s from Lieberman for this?

Bob in HI

Why do senior Democrats get demerits for criticizing eight years of GOP excesses, and serial Bush administration felonies and mismanagement, but they get extra-credit for pissing off “the Left”. I guess the new “center” is pretty far right.

fyi

11/4/8 OH-8

Boehner 183.2k votes
von Stein 85.4k votes

didn’t see Dem name on Howie’s roster, but he could have been one of the Kos candidates. Kids over at DU liked him. Air Force Vet

I can vouch for the “a few good ones” can prevail over many bad ones concept.

Good afternoon everyone……. how is everyone?

Please, put that stupid cliche to rest. It does not sound intelligent or profound. That’s not a direct comment to you, Pachacutec, I’ve heard and read that idiotic refrain all over the f’ing place and I just consider it to be idiotic. I even posted a youtube yesterday of Pete Townhend jumping around like the drunken fool that he was while playing guitar on that song. The Who’s bass player just stood in one spot as he played as dynamically as Townhend did while jumping around like a jerk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3mi-bKtDGA

}}}}}}}}}}selise,kitty}}}}}}}}}}}}
hang in there

Posted this yesterday from WSJ oct. 1. THIS is why we don’t want Liberman to chair homeland sec.

OCTOBER 1, 2008
Satellite-Surveillance Program to Begin Despite Privacy Concerns
By SIOBHAN GORMAN
Article
Comments
MORE IN POLITICS »
WASHINGTON — The Department of Homeland Security will proceed with the first phase of a controversial satellite-surveillance program, even though an independent review found the department hasn’t yet ensured the program will comply with privacy laws.

Congress provided partial funding for the program in a little-debated $634 billion spending measure that will fund the government until early March. For the past year, the Bush administration had been fighting Democratic lawmakers over the spy program, known as the National Applications Office.

The program is designed to provide federal, state and local officials with extensive access to spy-satellite imagery — but no eavesdropping — to assist with emergency response and other domestic-security needs, such as identifying where ports or border areas are vulnerable to terrorism.

Since the department proposed the program a year ago, several Democratic lawmakers have said that turning the spy lens on America could violate Americans’ privacy and civil liberties unless adequate safeguards were required.

A new 60-page Government Accountability Office report said the department “lacks assurance that NAO operations will comply with applicable laws and privacy and civil liberties standards,” according to a person familiar with the document. The report, which is unclassified but considered sensitive, hasn’t been publicly released, but was described and quoted by several people who have read it.

The report cites gaps in privacy safeguards. The department, it found, lacks controls to prevent improper use of domestic-intelligence data by other agencies and provided insufficient assurance that requests for classified information will be fully reviewed to ensure it can be legally provided.

[Mod note; edited to meet minimal standard of fair use. Please do not quote entire articles.]

Time to regroup. Let’s think this through. We all recall FDR as a reformer, but he had to be pulled kicking and screaming to enact a lot of the liberal legislation. It wasn’t that he opposed it, it was that he had to appear to be pulled by public opinion. We aren’t the party, but we are a powerful interest group in and around it, and unlike the fundies, we can’t be bought off by a few pieces of religious candy. I think the lesson here is that nothing is going to happen all by itself. We have to keep pushing for what we believe in, and working on the margins to get some more of our people elected.

We always we knew we weren’t going to get much of what we wanted. No reason to give up. It’s been a lot worse over the past eight years than it is going to be over the next four.

I don’t interpret Dean’s response that way. It was HIS job that was all about winning. Don’t think he was implying that for the whole D party.

ok…howz you???

14

Personally, I prefer

Chump Change.

same idea, different words.

1,830 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

It seems to me that the Clinton’s have done to Barak Obama and the new Democratic base jest what they did to the Democratic Party majorities in 1994…they set ‘em up, got ‘em all bunched up in the middle of the arena and then walked away and let the fascists slaughter ‘em. So here we go again, one of the strongest branches of the new progressive Democratic Party who may be the single most important force in gettin’ Obama elected, Howard Dean, has lost his position as DNC chair and is sent out like a woeful begger to placate the howling masses that are bein’ herded into the arena to be cut up and sent to market by the permanent political machine on behalf of the oligarchy.

Sister Jane, tell me that your interview with Howard Dean didn’t leave you with the feelin’ that the progressive movement in the Democratic Party is dead in the water…to cut Dean loose and then send ‘im out ta do damage control with the dirty mob is jest another kick in the slats not only to Howard Dean but to all the progressives that got Obama elected. Everything we have seen from the Obama camp in the last 4 days smacks of Rahm Emmanuel playin Dick Cheney.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, IN FOR A PENNY IN FOR A POUND, CAN’T TURN BACK NOW THAT WE KNOW WHO THE ENEMY IS!!

Hey katymine!!!! Great to see ya. How goes it?

Honeymoon’s over. That was short.

Caw!

i agree. this isn’t 1992. the problems we face are urgent and the consequences of inaction or stupid action are unimaginable. and competent governance isn’t even on the radar?

I tried to call my senator, Barbara Boxer, several times yesterday but her voice mailbox was full. She voted to let that piece of crap Lieberman off the hook. This whole thing makes no sense to me.

My best friend has a little female, Summer, about 11. Renal diet, sub q fluid 3x week. Hang in there. (((selise & sweetheart)))

hope winning hasnt got us repuke light

Democratic leader says party won’t turn left
By Mike Soraghan
Posted: 11/18/08 12:04 AM [ET]

As the House prepares to elect its leaders, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer is challenging the idea that the expanded Democratic majority and its leaders will make a hard left turn.

“For the first time in decades, we are a true national majority party—and if we want to stay that way, we must govern like one,” Hoyer (D-Md.) is to say in a speech today at the National Press Club, according to excerpts of his remarks obtained by The Hill.

With the departure of House Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) to become White House chief of staff, Hoyer is now the only member of top leadership from the conservative side of his caucus.

Excuse me selise, the proper terminology is “off the table”.

I think the lesson here is that nothing is going to happen all by itself. We have to keep pushing for what we believe in,

agree.

Well, the real test case will be whether the BlueAmerican candidates turn right when they cross the DC border. That’s what we have to watch. And if that happens, then it’s plan b, or c, or whatever.

It was HIS job that was all about winning

that’s one of his jobs. but imo not the only one.

oy,pass the alka-seltzer,forget the popcorn

So sorry about your cat. There is a very good yahoo group for dogs with kidney issues. There may be one for cats as well. I learned a lot of useful info when my 15 year old Airedale was failing with kidney disease. They were very helpful with suggestions for settling her stomach and good things and ways to feed her.

LOL!

thanks for all the kind thoughts for my cat. feels more than a little silly, but i really do appreciate it.

((((Katymine))))

I never looked into what he was doing as the Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. I was too busy figuring out how to win the election. So I don’t want to get into a debate on whether he’s qualified or not.

This is what bothers me most about Dean’s response. The idea that “It’s all about winning”. Shouldn’t some thought be given to why people are running, what they stand for, not just that they win?

I think that maybe Gov. Dean was being a little bit disingenuous with this remark. It’s a bit of a dodge. But I think he’s also crediting Jane’s chops and not just dismissing her as another DFH blogger. Score one for Jane!

Bob in HI

Some good kabuki in senate hearing on auto industry. Senators pretending to scold industry.

{{{{{{{{{{{ Jane }}}}}}}}}}}}

Thank you for your post.

Had 4 doses of Interlukin…… it better work….. it retails at $25,000 for each dose……. and I will have 15 doses this series…..

Sometimes I have symptoms and other times not….. the chills are the worst…… I get to rocking the bed so hard that things fall off the bed…….

The nurses have made stickers of packman and they are all around my bed and room….. so I’m to visualize packman gobbling my tumors….

We will do that because that’s all we’ve got, but this was a significant FU to the DFH’s. They got what they wanted from us and now we are irrelevant—until they need money for reelection. Screw that.

do these boneheads really believe their 7 percent victory was handed to them by people who vote regularly in the past? that margin was a groundswell of voters who hadn’t voted in years and saw the potential for real change. change change change.

like NFL said, maybe just chump change. the AG position is most worrying.

My question is why Dean? He’s certainly aware of what’s gone on but his job and what goes on in Congress or the transition team at this level are not related. So why Dean?

yep. pretense,… i’m listening too.

It’s not silly. It’s concern for something you love. And it dominates your life right now.

oh my. Not been here for quite a while and didn’t know about this.

Sending ((((((((hugs)))))))) and prayers your way!

Right about now, selise, it is feeling as if Obama had invited us all to a banquet, and when we arrived, not only was there nothing on the table, there wasn’t even a table.

Fortunately, we were all expecting pot-luck, and most of us brought something to munch on.

Would you care for some lieber-wurst?

selise, ygm.

He also has S-1959, The Thought Crimes Bill on the backburner

Under cover of studying “violent radicalization,” both bills (HR-1955 and SB-1959) would broaden the already-fluid definition of “terrorism” to encompass political activity and protest by dissident groups, effectively criminalizing civil disobedience and non-violent direct action by developing policies for “prevention, disruption and mitigation.”

What is the industry pretending to do? I know they’re pretending to be contrite, but what’s the bigger agenda? Are they really begging or is the fix in?

Excellent courageous job, Jane. Keep it up! We need you.

Most of what I think has already been said here. Many good points. For me it was never ever about revenge. Where did they cook that one up?

It’s already sounding like after the Iraq War when the reasons and justifications for going in kept morphing. What blue placard did you see the word ‘RECONCILIATION’ on? I read ‘CHANGE’.

I never looked into what he was doing as the Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee.

Did Obama? Because if, according to Dean, Obama supported Lieberman staying as Chair, then he is supporting the exact opposite of the policy positions he campaigned on.

(((((katymine)))))

so great to see you on the threads! pacmans rule. chomp chomp…

Do hot water bottles help with the chills? Most hosptial ER’s have blanket warmers, it’s like the blanket just came out of the dryer. so toasty. Maybe the nurses could snag you something like that?

Somehow there is a void in the credibility that Dean, a national politician would not be aware. That crap just does not ring true. Were his lips moving?

Wow. Not the price, the effects. Wow. I’ll have to churn up some more positive energy for that stuff. (((katymine)))

a little OT, but this made the news today.

The business news channel CNBC is estimating the US government has already spent more than $4 trillion over the past year on corporate bailouts, loans and other efforts to combat the financial crisis. That is more than what was spent on World War II if adjusted for inflation. CNBC calculated the figure based on what it described as a complicated cocktail of budgeted dollars, actual spending, guarantees, loans, swaps and other market mechanisms by the Federal Reserve, the Treasury and other offices of government.

Seconding that emotion, ((((katymie))))

I am sadly disappointed in how much Howard Dean has moved to the Corporatist Democrat type……. When he was running in 2004 he was so clear and loved his book (can’t remember what it is now) where he talked about planning for America in 20/50/100 cycles just like REAL planners do……….

stone soup

They put ice bags under the back of my neck and under my arm pits and a ton of those toasty blankets. They have a warmer here on floor……. the Doc is going to try Benedryl to break the chills…….

Sending white light your way

It may not have been about revenge this cycle, but just wait until 2010 and 2012. We may have to conjure up our own change we can believe in.

Benedryl for chills? I never heard of that. At least it will help ou to sleep.

Ahhhh … most excellent, the aroma, the taste, the wonderfull coming together … yum, stone soup is a favorite.

I envision a nationwide stone soup kitchen ….

what’s the bigger agenda?

don’t know. that’s the reason i’m listening…. trying to figure out.

We elected these people to govern for the common good. They refuse to do so. We will replace them. That’s not revenge, that’s building a civilized society.

Bennett sounded favorable to a bailout.

Who’s Mr. Bowtie Economist? He sounds as obnoxious as his tie looks. Has the occassional good point and has a lot of knowledge at his fingertips, but seems obtuse at many points.

Precisely, SD.

Oh, and while I’m ragging on the appearance of males (turnabout is such fun), let me compliment Dodd on no longer tinting his eyebrows black. He looks so much better with the natural salt & pepper look.

Ian a couple of flights upstairs

another one I USED TO respect.

Can’t trust any one of them. period.

i’m listening on cspan radio, not watching. was ok this morning because i recognize the voices. this afternoon i’m getting confused.

Talk about circular firing squads…

Revenge lurks, despite the denials.

Without Howard Dean, there would be no Democratic Prez-Elct, and you all KNOW it.

I absolutely second you there!!!

Yes, that’s why this ‘revenge’ talk is at bottom fake. Removing people from positions of power after they lost an election (and Lieberman is ‘they’ in this case, because he championed Republican positions) is what our democracy is about. If we’re not going to remove them, why hold elections?

Other power political and monied interests aside, it seems the Senate is seeing this as about themselves as individuals – they want to be all lovey-dovey, cost what it may to their electorate that voted them in and the principles and policies they were mandated to implement. But as Obama has said – and apparently forgotten here if he wished Lieberman to remain -, elections are not about you.

It is perfectly fine to respect and like a colleague. But if he holds and advocated positions that you as a politician were not mandated to uphold, then you have to say, ‘Sorry, you’re a nice guy, I like you a lot, but your policies are not the ones I was voted in to carry out.

Interrupting the Ten Years’ Hate for a moment:

The Congressional Democratic leadership told Dean right from the start that they didn’t answer to him, but to Reid and Pelosi. They wouldn’t listen to him, except maybe to do the exact opposite of whatever he recommended.

That’s one reason why Dean concentrated on building up the state orgs rather than bothering to lobby Congress.

If we’re not going to remove them, why hold elections?

voter suppression – Democrat style

how does that explain what dean said?

MAJOR KUDOS TO JANE for staying relentlessly on-point.

And a real testimony to her that Howard Dean yielded to her, and to the progressive blogosphere as a whole, as to the issue of whether Joe actually has been QUALIFIED to hold onto his committee chairs, based on past performance.

GREAT followups, Jane. In particular, thank you for clarifying that it is grossly inaccurate to characterize the feelings from the progressive blogosphere as being expressions of punishment, payback, revenge — as opposed to the idea that he should have been denied his chairmanships due to his non-performance in those roles.

If Dr. Dean isn’t following the Homeland Security Cmte., maybe the netroots can make it a daily agenda item to contact all the other members and demand investigations into Katrina, etc. that Lieberman has ignored. Someone needs to feel some heat, and others are not as safe as he is for now.

Oh, who am I kidding? They don’t care til the next election cycle and they want money and volunteers, and they won’t get me anyway. Big mortgage, son to raise. Better Dems. Much, much better Dems.

Jane you rock, as always. Thanks for sharing our sentiment with those who want us to kiss their shoes again.

I forget who first pointed this out, but it bears repeating:

Just what kind of logic says it’s okay to remove LIEberman from the sub-committees in which he has functioned as a consensus Democrat while leaving him in charge of the one where he hasn’t?

Blackmail Joe wins this round.

Way to go, Jane! As usual, YOU make us proud. I’m so pissed off at the party elders right now. I am going to withdraw from the Democratic Party and they will not get a penny from me…nor will I lift a finger for them at this time. They don’t deserve us, because we are a force and I’m thinking maybe it’s time to form a BETTER DEMOCRATIC PARTY STARTING WITH US!

Wow — I’d never seen that “bribery” video that Pachacutec posted to YouTube August 28, 2008:

Lieberman to Reid: “Will $250 Thousand Be Enough?”

That is stunning to me — and quite revealing regarding today’s vote.

PachacutecFDL, is that John Aravosis shooting the reverse shot, with his camera on you? If so, do you think we can get that video? It would add to the power of this whole revelation — that Joe retains his status due to his delivering money when Reid asks for it.

In Philadelphia, 20 years ago I lived across the street from the 27th ward, I would go there to get a sample ballot, which included a few different non-partisan judges, rarely a Republican or independent.

This year even the Green Party wouldn’t support a once powerful Green who ran instead as a Libertarian. Party loyalty in the extreme is ridiculous

I wish Bernie Sanders would demand an open vote re vote. Is more proof of the peace movement being toothless than not supporting John Murtha for Majority Whip, instead harassing Nancy Palosy,
http://capitolhillblue.com/cont/blog/2419
Is there any way like was the 27th ward to get politics to be less ridged
RichardKanePA

so sorry, what’s DFH?

Note to Obama and DNC when I just got home from work.

Well the kindest thing I can say at this point is probably WTF are you thinking? If we wanted the Clinton administration we would have hired a Clinton. If we wanted the Republicans we would have hired the Republicans.

You and your team are working overtime to prove that we wasted our money and misplaced our trust in your Change We can Believe in slogan. One of Bush.s malaprops comes to mind. Fool me once…. It looks like it is time to start the organizing and fund raizing to remove you and your team even before you take office.

We tried to overlook your cowardace on the Amnesty deal, we tried to believe that you just wanted to work well with the Congress, we tried to telll each other that you were just feeling your way. In only two weeks you have appointed a Clinton Cabnet, backed Joe Liberman and told the rest of us to F**k Off.

Disappointment, yes. Anger, HELL YES. Support for you and keep eating the s**t you are putting out. NOT SO MUCH.

Seconded.

I don’t think stripping (one) Joe Lieberman of his chairmanships hardly qualifies as a purge.

Bullseye. thank you.

Seconded

PS

LIEbermans ”apology” was so obviously a non-”apology”.

They want people to turn away and not pay attention.

There was never a fucking thing to look into. The man sat on his hands the entire time. Hearings? Oversight? Subpeonas? Crickets!!!
Nice to remind myself that he was front and center in shaming the Clenis. Best pal of the most odious. Rape-gurneying. Sure. AIPAC? You betcha.
Sorry Howard. While we were busy implementing the 50 state strategy, and hoping and praying that the interregnum would end peacably, Joe was doing his mostest for the worstest.
Change I can’t believe in.
Jeez, just make the stupid stop!

On Inauguration Day, in the shadow of the cold-blooded murderer Cheney’s 50 black SUV cortege as it rolls out of town toward a secret bunker built with the blood and suffering of thousands of American soldiers and millions of innocent dead Iraqis, the despicable little weasel, Senator Joseph Lieberman, can step forward into the light, punch his fist triumphantly into the air, and take the mantle of the most loathed, evil warmongering neocon monster in Washington. Congratulations, Joe, you pathetic piece of shit.

Dear Jane talked me down on several occasions over the last 8 years when I was ready to throw the towel in and say “Adios!” to the Democratic party once and for all. We ate it on FISA, we ate it on the Wall Street Bail Out Holiday Bonus Giveaway and now we’ve eaten it on Lieberman. What will it take to get these damned Dems to throw a little f-ing meat to us JUST ONCE? They haven’t given us a damn thing in thanks for all we have done to get them back in power. Looks like it’s going to be SNAFU, as RevDeb so eloquently stated up-thread. I don’t know how many more years I’ve got in me to fight for “better” democrats. Seems like the ones we get are turned by the rancid air and water in DC as quick as we can elect them. So now we have Republicans and traitors call the shots and run the show so we can appear to be bipartisan. This IS NOT the change I worked for. Clearly, I was snookered yet again. No bones for the DFH’s — that’s clear as day now. I feel like a chump.

Dirty Fucking Hippies.

Dirty F***ing Hippy

I think the story is something along the lines of some right-wing newspaper columnist in Kentucky calling those who oppose Shrub, nothing but Dirty F***ing Hippies

Somebody fill in the holes where I’m wrong

Here’s my boilerplate response to ALL Democratic appeals for money:

No, thank you. Why?

LIEBERMAN

PROP 8

WALL STREET BAILOUT

FISA

ROBERTS

ALITO

BANKRUPTCY BILL

NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND

IRAQ WAR

GUANTANAMO

DOMA

DON’T ASK, DON’T TELL

WELFARE REFORM

BANKING DEREGULATION

And I could go on and on. All brought to the American taxpayer with full DEMOCRATIC PARTY support.

Enough is enough!

NO!

Hello there, Prisilla. Nice to see you. And, I agree with your comments.

I am really late in reading this thread and all the comments.

Great job, Jane. I hope Chairman Dean takes time to read this thread.

And, btw, f*ck Holy Joe and all the trojan horses’ asses he rode in on.

I’m outraged by Dean’s responses, and I do feel he’s let us down.

We were most certainly not elected to end partisanship. “We” were elected to end the financial turmoil, the illegal war, the destruction of the environment, and on those issues and more, Lieberman fails.

I’ve written my Senator and demanded an explanation, and I suggest you all write to yours. And I’ve put Kerry on notice, if I don’t see some meaningful responses, publicly, he’s lost my vote and I’ll campaign and raise money for a replacement. Because this must end.

It most certainly is not about revenge, Dean. It’s about capability.

Hey Valley Girl. Back at ya! I’m just fuming over all this nonsense. I was late to the party too but I’m glad I came and glad you stopped by too!

From the article:

JANE HAMSHER: But do you think that’s something that the Senate should’ve looked at in deciding whether to give him the gavel or not?

HOWARD DEAN: Well, I hope they did.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Jeez…

Doesn’t this sound like the Patriot Act scenario all over again?

Jeez…

Hey Priscilla- glad you were still reading. I am so f*cking pissed off. Like seriously. Like totally. What a bunch of nonsense from Dean. It read that way to me, anyway. I am still fuming.

What part of change do they not understand?

It’s the ‘e’ at the end. It’s silent.

Not revenge. Justice.

While I agree with the overall ”Lieberman should be outed” meme I think the Jane Hamsher ”gotcha” moment with Dean needs to be put in perspective. Jane, have you evaluated the other Senate committee chairmanships over the last 2 years? Are they all qualified to continue their chairmanships? Please run those down for us…

Joe Lieberman probably has the brain cells and synapses to be competent. What he does not have is the moral fiber and sense of loyalty to be trusted.
The Senate Democratic Caucus chose to close ranks and cover it’s collective arse rather than make what would have been, at least in their own eyes, a bold, risky move.
we can rage and squawk about it all we want but we need to do the math, check the lists and proceed with the process which does make them quake: Primary Challenges. no instant gratification there, but only there is it possible to really make Change happen. that, and unrelenting ankle-biting.
i just coughed up a benjamin to Accountability Now. if you’re angry and you know it, try it too.

and i’m still very much on board with Howard Dean. i don’t agree with him on this but, you know what? nobody’s perfect, and, Howard Dean has really paid his dues. what that tells me is, although we’d like to hang Jomentum’s flabby, wrinkled bootie on a clothes line there are other points of view that have validity.