GAH!

Thanks Ian.

No thanks, George Bush.

Digg please

Dugg. Thanks for the link.

Thanks Ian.

this is definately their last throws to get rid of unions in america

the democrats need to get a bill done and pronto

bzzzzzz bzzzzz bzzzz bzzzz

Ouch!

Yep, that pitchfork is mighty sharp now.

Innocent whistling.

Eliminate criminal Republicans then start new. I could take years to restore economic democracy so let’s start now. Maybe a Gitmo like prison for Republican ‘economic-terrorists’?

Pottery Barn rule v. 2.0: We broke it, but now you own it. Good fucking luck.

I can only read this as union hatred….No cost is too high for Americans who didn’t vote Republican to pay, if it takes out a major union.

Well said, but IMO should read, “No cost is too high for all Americans who didn’t vote Republican to pay, if it takes out a major union.”

Putting our country into a depression is not too high a price for killing one of the few unions left. And, as detailed above, the sad fact is that rescuing the industry would require what amounts to chump change compared to the cost of bailing out the financial aristocracy.

Okay, so we get to blame the perfect economic storm on the Repugs.

I suggest Obama and any congressional leaders who were for the buy-out meet with a coalition of governors and development leaders along with the UAW in order to come up with combined state plans. Side-step the Federal government.

Lets see 3 million workers * $50,000 per year spending that would be about one hundred and fifty billion dollars taken out of the economy. Good work bushy

“I can only read this as union hatred.”

I’ll go a step further: They’re already thinking two years down the road. When the economy is still in the tank, the thugs can turn people’s misery to their political advantage and run on the old “what you need is more tax cuts” mantra.

hearing with bernanke, paulson and bair:

paulson says it’s important to stick with the original purpose of the tarp (bailing out his buddies at GS).

Eggzacktly.

Ian, some of the interesting discussion this morning at Attaturks, apologies for the EPU’dness

It is healthy that we still remain sceptical of obama’s actions or lack thereof. Mrs Bill as SOS is just one of a number of corporate wishes that he is bowing to. Emmanuel as COF is a sop to AIPAC, not taking a firm stand on Liarman is another AIPAC victory. The information that he will not be prosecuting the US torturers is surely indicative of his lack of desire to find the bushies culpable of war crimes at least. Regretfully the DLC is still firmly in control. Change, it seems, will be a long time in coming if it ever does.

Consider the wealth and political power of the vested interests directing governmental policy, what you observe is not surprising. Those interests are entrenched behind moats of fiction and walls of lies. There is little that can be done to sway their intended course, other than the complete collapse of the economic system that is the foundation of their position. It is very likely, that event is upon them as we write this. It will take the complete collapse economically to displace these overlards, just as the feudal condition was displaced from power, it will not go easily. It will be hard going for most of the population, but without economic activity and the profits it generates, those lards will have nothing, their foundations built on sand. What will be important is having an education and awareness of economic “philosophy” that contains the tools to rebuild an economic system conducive to the general wellbeing. If that is not accomplished, there is scant chance the future will be bright.

n response to T-Bear @ 70 (show text)
I agree. We need and economic collapse to rid ourselves of those with all that power. it’s the wealth that gives them that power and they need to be turned to paupers.

The collapse will happen, what actions that are being contemplated will assure that. Wealth is not the source of power, wealth is what accumulates from owning and controlling economic power; economic power is owning and controlling the means of economic production, wealth is a straw dog designed used by demagogues to divert attention from the real problem, the ownership of economic means of production. Wealth is nothing more than accumulated unconsumed income, libraries, colleges and universities are an example of unconsumed social wealth.

And now those corporate masters are being allowed (helped?) to consolidate their power I can only assume that we are all fucked.

Yes grasshopper, in their grab to consolidate, observe what happened, liquidity of finance is frozen, markets are without customers, production is hamstrung, an ever increasing flood of money is chasing ephemeral profit unrelated to economic production, the tsunami of printed paper is overwhelming the trust it is based upon. These corporate overlards have turned the grounds they have built upon into quickening sand. It is they who are fecked.

What would be your thoughts?

It really is time to start swinging people by ropes from light poles ala Mussolini.

I saw Senator Shelby from Alabamy all over the networks yapping against helping the US car companies. Of course nobody asked him how many foreign, non-union car companies are operating in Alabamy. That might require a bit of thought and real journalism which the US clearly doesn’t have.

Damn the US media disgusts me!

Didn’t you hear? The Revolution was canceled…

What will the bailout do though? Are we going to continue to pay these employees to make cars that are already backed up in inventory, nobody wants, and nobody can afford? or do we pay them to stand around and do nothing

Reissued due to popular demand (?)

Yep, the Rethugs have the unions exactly where they want them. Let’s go ahead and get this Depression started. After all, the 30s were a beehive of union activity in this country, but it was a different time, lots of socialist immigrants from Europe, fascism developing in Germany and Italy. Of course, Americans today tend to be a bit spoiled; they couldn’t or wouldn’t get rid of the Fuhrer in office now and let fascism run rampant during the last 8 years. I stopped being a registered Dem and went Unaffiliated on July 5, 2007, when Nancy announced her table was clean…

Cheney and Gonzales have been indicted in Texas today. We needed ths kind of good news today.

McALLEN, Texas — A South Texas grand jury has indicted Vice President Dick Cheney and former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on charges related to the alleged abuse of prisoners in Willacy County’s federal detention centers.

Sorry for being off topic, I think it’s worth it.

Had about 15 minutes this morning. So I figured, being editor, I’d errm, take advantages of the privileges of my position and give it just a bit more time.

Keynes said when all else fails, hire people to dig holes then fill them back up again.

So yes, it is worthwhile to pay them to do nothing to get thru the crisis. After that it’ll be time to reassess.

Listening to senate hearing on auto industry reminds me that all cyclical industries get religion on the downside of the cycle. So if & when the economy recovers & we want those jobs, it’ll be a better industry with better products.

I’d rather not go through a complete collapse. It may happen whether we like it or not. Bernanke and Paulson’s actions have been intended to make sure that either it doesn’t happen, or if it does, that the rich are protected. That has been job one for them, and their actions make it very clear.

“Editorial discretion.” (It is a good post, deserves more than 15 minutes of fame.)

Some workers will be laid off, just as they would have been otherwise, but the companies will remain going concerns. In the case of GM, we bridge to the Volt, in particular. In all of them we use them to restructure the US automobile market to much higher fuel efficiency, among other things.

Glad you did. Busting the autoworkers union would top the air traffic controllers by miles. A major feather in corporatist bonnets.

Ian,

What are the consequences in a modified capitalistic system of government’s rewarding bad corporate behavior.

Not immediate consequences. Long-term consequences.

Bush has indicated that he would be willing to convert the $25B that has been voted to help the big 3 to retool to help the auto industry now. Could that be done and then on Jan 21 replenish that?

Oh my . . . . Cheney and Gonzo indicted. How can that be?

The pardon clock is running.

Would druther not myself, but if that is what it takes to oust the bastards, I’d like to see them go the way the feudal lards went, where they were no more than an impertinency.

sounds good to me. this afternoon is good timing as we listen to the senate banking hearing.

Yes, Paulson is dedication itself when it comes to bailing out the banking system in behind the scenes totally opaque deals. Keeping the rest of the economy from depression, hey not his problem.

These are state charges, Deb.

The pardon clock does not apply — Bushie only has the power to pardon offenses against the Federal Gummint.

This is delish.

US democracy! We’re all porn stars extras; we just don’t know it. Yet.

A suck-y day finds a silver lining, and beyond the pale of Whitehouse sway. delish indeed.

Naw. It’s a flakey from the getgo.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c.....244949.php

Ooooh. Dodd is pretending to care about auto workers.

yum!!!!! Way too much to hope for.

Geez, congress takes next to no time to give Paulson a blank check on $700 billion to dole out to the people he pals around with on Wall St., and wastes an entire afternoon on $25 billion for the auto industry.

Spit.

Aw, shucks and boogers.

Unions are being recognized as a corpse that is being swept from the soil while reports and citz and water bottles are kept out of New Orleans.

Sadly we do not as a people come to our brothers and sisters aid while they are in need - now they are coming for us.

The tech bubble was a bxtch slap to the genius workers, the housing bubble was collusion. People that have only been saving or living in the workforce for 10 or 12 years have nothing.

Boomers thought they were going to skate to the end and leave the bill - they will silly, they got smacked in the mouth as well. I have spoken to many that think as long as we keep bombing and even nuke people if needed as long as they can retire its all good - wow were they way off base.

not just an afternoon. tomorrow morning too - when the same folks testify before barney frank’s house financial services committee.

Look at UK’s economy from 1968 through 1978. Complete industries vanished. Incompetent management continue to burn cash in an unprofitable business.

Are the Republicans whigging out?

I’m wondering about the political consequences. Does the GOP think they can own killing US automobiles now and crawl out from under in two years wtih promises of tax cuts? I hear and see them practically screaming DIE! DIE! DIE, worhtless US auto industry! for the last few days. Suppose one or more of the big three is liquidated. In two years, lots of unemployed, early involuntarily and incnoveniently retired auto workers are gong to want lower taxes on their non-existent union pay?

That doesn’t add up to me. Seems to me like the GOP has lost its mind. When will Michigan, Ohio and Indiana be swing states again? Or, am I missing something?

Didn’t you hear? The Revolution was canceled…

Oh man, I just heard it was gonna start in a thread downstairs about 5 minutes ago. Now it’s already canceled? What’s the fun in that? Do I have to return the pitchfork?

I suspect Democrats in Congress will vote money for an auto bailout, but I don’t think they can justify using TARP monies since there is no convincing evidence that the failure and disappearance of the car companies endangers the economic system.

However, Paulson is an idjit if he can’t read the name Troubled Assets Relief Program when he says TARP isn’t intended for buying up ‘troubled assets’. It was meant originally to buy up toxic assets and then helping financial firms to keep the money flowing was added. TARP is for both.

Now he says they have pretty well stabilized financial firms and they’re guaranteeing loans & stuff, so it’s clearly time to work on mortgage workouts. Paulson says there isn’t enough money for buying them up, but he is ignoring the FDIC workout program where much less money is required.

The Other Plan to Save Detroit

It looks like the folks in DC are hell-bent to give the stimulus package another try seeing as the first one didn’t have any real effect.

At the same time, the Democrats owe too much to the unions not to save the auto industry.

Let’s combine the two, give the economy a boost and save over a million jobs all at once.

Consider the following:

Manufacturing costs of motor vehicles are 65% labor (i.e.: W-2 income), that’s not all direct but due to suppliers. GM alone has over 1300 suppliers. (That’s a lot of jobs!)

1 in 10 Americans makes all or part of their income due to the automobile industry.

Money turns over 5 times in a year.

Thus a vehicle with a manufacturing cost of 20K produces 13,500 in W-2 income which in turn becomes a total of 65K in 12 months due to the 5 turnovers.
(This isn’t magic, it’s simply how the economy works.)

Our domestic car makers are saddled with legacy costs, most of which will reduce dramatically in 2010 due to contract changes.

They need to survive to get there.

This whole mess is not solely due to the unions

It would be easy to simply blame the unions; and it’s certainly not my job to defend them; however as it regards the current mess in Detroit, the facts get in the way.



The UAW has already made massive concessions some of which are already being implemented and others are timed to roll in over the next year or so.

Our own over-zealous government with an alphabet soup of regulatory agencies has been no help either.


Foreign competitors have worked off-shore collectively to meet various US gov’t. imposed emission and safety standards, thus dramatically reducing those R&D costs.
American car companies are prohibited from that by our FTC.

Make no mistake; it’s no surprise that once again government has been a major part of the problem.

Here’s the solution.

Instead of either shipping cases of cash off to car makers; or sending us all another check:

Send out a voucher for say $1,000 good on a motor vehicle for the percentage of the vehicle that’s domestic. (Civic = 70% Ford Explorer=80%)

Let those not interested in a new car sell or give away their vouchers (Ebay would be loaded with them in no time flat) and those that are so inclined can use as many as they can get their hands on up to the full MSRP of the vehicle.

This would bail out the car industry without giving them a dime directly

Further it would reduce the overall age of the nation’s cars which would in turn;
increase overall fuel economy & decrease pollution.

Strengthen the dollar!

Since vehicles with a higher domestic content would be moving better this would reduce our imports, strengthening our dollar which would in turn further reduce what we pay for anything imported …like gas!

Jobs

Instead of simply bailing out a few big companies, this would cause such a run that it would create employment throughout the industry affecting over 1300 suppliers and their workers.

That would give the economy good swift kick right where it needs one!

Pays for itself!

Since money turns over 5 times, and the vouchers are only good for the domestic content of the vehicle, every dime would be spent in the United States creating taxable income.
What is the income tax on 65,000 anyway?

(Remember? 20K manufacturing cost = $13,500 W-2 income x 5 = $65,000)

Another Stimulus Package?

I’m sure you’ll agree that this makes more sense than simply sending out checks; many of which will be used to buy new flat screen TV’s usually made in Malaysia or some such place.