Not happy. It should be the other way around – let him keep EPW and boot him off Homeland Security.

What purpose do these Democrats serve that would allow a cur like Lieberman to keep his prestigious job? What are they afraid of?

Let him keep nothing.

His word is a lie. His friendship is a charade.

Look in your mirror, Senator…he’ll betray you next.

He is the scorpion, it is his nature.

Booman sums it up beautifully… “That’s fucking brilliant…”

I am convinced that there is nothing Lieberman can do, besides go to each of their states, one at a time, and campaign against them that will get him kicked out of his Chairmanship.

I wonder if Joe will return to his old practice of meeting with both D and R senate strategy sessions? I mean, why wouldn’t he?

silly me. i thought the dems had a majority now.

Hi everyone.

Does the Senate health care plan pay for spine transplants?

On the upside, I don’t imagine the Republicans trust the little shit any more than we do.

Hi Katymine!

I’d at least like to know what the going rate is these days for a committee chairmanship.

Seizing defeat from the jaws of victory once more.
Leadership we can believe in.
Oh well, no one said this would be easy.

Still no word from Boxer who normally responds to emails quickly.

Maybe we’ll all be pleasantly surprised?

I think it was on KO tonight that I heard that Homeland Security is a committee that no one in the Senate really cares about, that it is populated with junior senators. That makes me feel a tiny bit better, but is also very surprising given what the house counterpart did this past year.

Apparently not. I hope Leahy and any other Dem with guts really let the cave people have it.

I still keep trying to make sense of this. What’s in it for the democrats?

Secret ballot. Nobody has to own up.

Jane, thanks for this SayItAintSo update… And thank you for the encouragement to do an Oxdown…My first, and a goal I hoped to accomplish before my 6th anniversary of my 39th…A birthday present to my family and myself…

Well I’m shocked that the demos rolled over:(
jo6pac
Everything is on schedule, please move along.

It seems the only way to be booted off a committee is to be indicted for a crime. Openly campaigning for the opposition and spending more than a year working to undermine the party you caucus with is insufficient grounds for removal.

Lo Hoo,

I, too, am totally non-plussed. Why are the Dems so reluctant to kick Holy Joe out? Who cares if he goes over to the Republicans? Do the Dems really believe that Holy Joe will cooperate with them? To this day, the creep is acively suporting Coleman (a Rep) against Franken in MN.

Does anyone have a theory about why Holy Joe so scares the Dems?

Joe started that department and committee.. he likes to mentor the newbies, I think. Half of them seem to call him their mentor.

The whole department needs to be dissolved.

As the Kabuki Whores spit in our collective faces, they tell us the want to continue their unholy relationship with the repthug mole.
They always intended to do this, it was never in question.
Did you really think they would treat the progressive wing of their party any differently? They only lie to us when they need our votes, after that it’s business as usual, which does not include us. After all, they, in their infinite wisdom, know better. Now it’s all about kiss and make up, “bipartisanship” and “ruling from the center-right”.
The smoking ruin of the nation is a great testimony to their collective wisdom in these matters, is it not?

The official answer is that they like him. He’s a good friend. No sense of “with friends like that . . .”

I called everyone on the committee. This really pisses me off- I stressed we should not be rewarding incompetence…
sigh

from glenn greenwald today:

This little vignette provides a very vivid and crystallizing illustration of how Congressional Democratic leaders think and behave. They consider it a good thing — not a bad thing — when they anger their own base. They’re thrilled when they get accused — accurately — of acting like Republicans and supporting right-wing measures, particularly on national security and “terrorism” issues. They consider it a benefit — an incentive — when they are attacked for embracing Republican political policies and violating the principles of their own base.

This is undoubtedly the rationale which, at least in part, led to Obama’s own reversal on FISA: namely, it was considered a good thing that he infuriated his core supporters and was accused of supporting definitively Bush/Cheney terrorism policies because — in the words of his new Chief of Staff — “it makes you look bipartisan.”

The Senate Democratic caucus don’t hate Lieberman, they hate you

it’s ok. i hate them back.

The AIPAC vote?

Apparently not, Katy.

Loo, the only possible way for this to be meaningful requires three (3) things:

1. Begich wins in Alaska. (looks likely)
2. Franken wins on the recount in Minnesota, and Normie isn’t able to get his ‘thug buddies in the Senate to block Franken’s being seated. (looks possible, but not nearly as likely as Begich in Alaska)
3. Martin somehow manages to win the runoff election in Georgia. (I want this to happen. I want to believe that it can happen. But realistically, this is a serious long-shot. I don’t think it’s going to happen.)

If all three of those things happen, then with the Lieberliar and Bernie Sanders the D’s reach 60. But the Lieberliar breaks ranks regularly, and there’s no reason whatever to believe that getting to 60 really makes things filibuster-proof.

Being filibuster-proof means being able to enforce party discipline. Explain to me how you can possibly enforce party discipline when there are no consequences for the Lieberliar’s activities of the last 30 months or so.

Everything scares the Dems.
And welcome, Gatsby1.

its the incumbency protection racket on steroids – one of them is threatened by the dirty hordes

of course, they have no problem begging for money from us – tis the only time the forkers fake listening to us.

Jane and FirePups Digg is now open for your Digging Pleasure!!
Just say No to Joe!!

If they fail to strip Lieberman of his chair, I think it’s time we do a signature drive to vote “no confidence” in the Democratic leadership. Should have done it before, IMO. They all suck.

they would just ignore it – just as they ignore us except for fundraising purposes

Dang. I can see why people tune out. I really believed that this time was different with Obama.

thanks, i almost always forget to use the digg.

watertiger upstairs

Maybe some Balls?

please don’t tune out!

I wish I could argue effectively against your point, Suz.

But honestly, I think you’re right.

I’ve absolutely no explanation. They think he’ll repent in some way and vote with the majority???

Nice of the Ds to make Lieberman the most important man in the senate. When will Reid be handing over his sceptre?

Might as well if this vote goes down in Lieberman’s favor.

dugg and shouted

From Glenn Greenwald today:

Congressional Democratic leaders … consider it a good thing — not a bad thing — when they anger their own base. They’re thrilled when they get accused — accurately — of acting like Republicans and supporting right-wing measures, particularly on national security and “terrorism” issues. They consider it a benefit — an incentive — when they are attacked for embracing Republican political policies and violating the principles of their own base.
…
And as the anger pours forth [over tomorrow’s vote] from people who raise money for Democrats and expended huge amounts of time and effort to elect Barack Obama, the more vindicated Senate Democrats will feel in what they just did. That’s how they look centrist and bipartisan — by infuriating their supporters, the perceived “Left.” They don’t believe in Sister Souljah moments; they believe in Sister Souljahism as an operating principle, a way of life.

Sigh. So we know what it’s like to have a party in power that sees every issue as an opportunity to continue relentlessly subverting the foundations of the Republic. What would it be like to have a party that sees every issue as an opportunity to repair that damage while still solving the very real problems that affect peoples’ lives? How strange would that be?

This’ll take a while.

Two Tuesdays ago the world changed.

Tomorrow a bit of it will sadly remain the same.

Two steps forward, one step backward. We’ll get there eventually, but it ain’t gonna be a “short ride.”

Perseverance is the key.

Ya beat me to it.

Of course they would. The point is that they should know our disdain as they’ve made their disdain for us so apparent. I’m so sick of this bunch.

does anyone remember the quote from nancy pelosi a few months back, maybe during FISA, where she angrily delineated the differences between the work she and Congress do vs. the electorate? like they are the adults that have to make the wise decisions the unwashed masses could never be trusted with.

if it rings any bells i’m trying to find the link.

glad i wasn’t the only one who was struck by that post of glenn’s. if he’s right – and i think he is – then we’ve got to always be raising hell about what the Ds do. because if we don’t they will just move further right until we finally do.

Well, if Obama has the Lieberliar’s balls in a bag in his desk … maybe. I don’t think Obama understands that this is a party discipline matter. The whip can’t be effective without having access to real consequences on crucial votes.

And if the whip came to me and said, ”You gotta vote this way, even though it’s gonna hurt you in the State of Inebriation.” I’d say, ”F*** off. Lieberman campaigned against Franken, Obama, and what’s-’is-name in Maine. He kept Homeland Security and Government Oversight. Come back when you’ve got a real threat.”

I just KNOW that the Dems will do the weasely thing. They ALWAYS eschew principle for political calculus. Nevermind that their calculus is hopelessly flawed and mired in double-talk. Dems run from stands on principle like cockroaches run from light.

Obama:

1. Reneges on pledge and backs FISA Amendments Act
2. Is instrumental in getting $700 billion Paulson bailout passed
3. Picks Rahm Emanuel to be his Chief of Staff
4. Names the pro-torture John Brennan to head his national security transition
5. Lobbies Senate to save Lieberman’s Chairmanship of DHS Committee

Anyone see a pattern? Looks like Obama is getting in touch with his inner conservative.

“They are advocates,” she said. “We are leaders.”

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was in a determinedly good mood when she sat down to lunch with reporters yesterday. She entered the room beaming and, over the course of an hour, smiled no fewer than 31 times and got off at least 23 laughs.

But her spirits soured instantly when somebody asked about the anger of the Democratic “base” over her failure to end the war in Iraq.

“Look,” she said, the chicken breast on her plate untouched. “I had, for five months, people sitting outside my home, going into my garden in San Francisco, angering neighbors, hanging their clothes from trees, building all kinds of things — Buddhas? I don’t know what they were — couches, sofas, chairs, permanent living facilities on my front sidewalk.”

Unsmilingly, she continued: “If they were poor and they were sleeping on my sidewalk, they would be arrested for loitering, but because they have ‘Impeach Bush’ across their chest, it’s the First Amendment.”

Though opposed to the war herself, Pelosi has for months been a target of an antiwar movement that believes she hasn’t done enough. Cindy Sheehan has announced a symbolic challenge to Pelosi in California’s 8th Congressional District. And the speaker is seething.

“We have to make responsible decisions in the Congress that are not driven by the dissatisfaction of anybody who wants the war to end tomorrow,” Pelosi told the gathering at the Sofitel, arranged by the Christian Science Monitor. Though crediting activists for their “passion,” Pelosi called it “a waste of time” for them to target Democrats. “They are advocates,” she said. “We are leaders.”

And one more thing for any of Joe’s peeps who happen to be reading this thread. Lieberman is not a funny guy. How he got a reputation for being funny is beyond me because, frankly, I don’t see it. I mean, he sounds funny, I’ll grant you that. Sort of a squeaking gerbil with laryngitis or the Dad from the show “Alf”. But funny as in actually able to make people laugh with him not at him? Not so much.

He also looks like a muppet.

Nothing.

hmmm… not sure yet. maybe this will help:

Obama Supports Blue Dog Barrow Over Progressive in Georgia Primary

or this:

Acting quickly after securing his party’s presidential nomination, Barack Obama picked a well-known representative of Bill Clinton’s economic policies as his economic policy director and signaled this week that the major players from the Clinton economics team were now in his camp — starting with Robert E. Rubin.

Or that Dennis Ross is his Middle East adviser.

Obama looks like he is going to be the next Bubble Boy only his will be made up of old Clinton Administration types.

Obama is certainly preferable to McCain in almost every respect, but still it feels like all we’ve really done is take a single step back from the edge of the abyss. We haven’t even turned around with regard to repairing the damage to the constitutional structures the Founders created as a defense against tyranny.

I took a look today at Obama’s new website, the issues page. I couldn’t find a single mention of constitutional issues there. Nothing about torture, habeus corpus, warrantless surveillance. Just not there. I’m very relieved he won, but with regard to that stuff, all it does, I think, is give us a little space. One step back from the abyss.

At least there are some Democrats in Congress who really do care about this, and we can work to increase their numbers. Not true of the Republicans.

or that he want a surge in the war in afghanistan.

yup. i think i may be seeing the faint outlines of a pattern. not sure what the pattern is yet….

when facing an abyss, a single step takes on critical importance.

though if we mistake that single step for a mile, we may find ourselves falling without ever seeing the danger.

Today’s e-mail to Boxer:

He can stay in the caucus if he wants, but DO NOT give him a committee chair, or, if you must, make it a subcommittee. He has to earn the chair, and so far he isn’t doing it.

What does it take to get the Democrats in Congress to NOT CAVE IN on decisions?
What does it take to get them to enforce ANY kind of party discipline (and I’m not asking for Republican-type discipline)?

Why the hell do the Democrats in Congress want to keep Lieberman in the caucus anyway?
It’s not that he’s useful.
It’s not that he supports the party in campaigns.
It’s not that he supports the nominee for president.
Because _he_ _hasn’t_ _done_ _any_ _of_ _those_ _in_ _years_. (this should be read very slowly and with emphasis)

(Also, he’s probably been passing information to the GOP at every opportunity; he’s just egotistical enough to do it for compliments on his speaking and his campaigning. An awful lot of their stuff was really well-timed this last session, _too_ well-timed.)

yup. i think i may be seeing the faint outlines of a pattern. not sure what the pattern is yet….

I think it’s the outlines of a one term Presidency.

That is indeed the point.

whatever it is, i don’t think it looks good. :(

I’m very discouraged. Not surprised, but discouraged. There is not question it was necessary to elect Obama over McCain. But so far Obama has done nothing to suggest he will make any of the changes we hoped for.

…those who stood up to defend him might be surprised at how much political capital they expended in doing so.

How do we demonstrate how much political capital they lost?

bingo! thanks so much, selise.

reading this the first time was my personal “lightbulb” moment, realizing how far we have to go in achieving a true representational government.

for a recovering cynic, what is about to transpire tomorrow will not be helpful, but i will continue on day by day.

more and better democrats.

It’s beginning to look like a deal has been cut. Children of the 1960s may recognize it: the socialist warmonger coalition, aka “Guns and Butter”. Broadly, we get social programs–this time around, healthcare, yay!–and the authoritarians get to make their wars, and play Gestapo. Well…it’s better than Bush II, and it probably won’t lead to World War III. But that’s about the best thing I can say about it. I’m reading the tea leaves like everyone else; perhaps matters are not as bad as I fear. If they are, however, there is one huge difference from those times. No, two huge differences. One, of course, is the economy, stupid. The sixties were prosperous times, and could afford both social programs and a war. But two is that world politics is much less stable. There is no stable global balance of power, and therefore military adventuring comes at a much higher cost. Now, it may be that Obama will ultimately be forced to abandon the authoritarians; he values loyalty and seems unlikely to tolerate many betrayals and treason is second nature to the likes of these. But that victory, if it comes, is going to come at a a high cost.

Oh, let me be wrong.

Caw!

Let him keep his chair. And then abolish the Department of Homeland Security. Funnel all the responsibilities to Armed Services and Commerce. Problem solved.

It’s what I love about you, selise.

Primary them. Every one of them.

Secret ballot? Fine. Y’all failed in your responsibilities, we’ll take as many of you out as we can.

lol!

thanks for the laugh jane. (and btw, it’s great to have you posting like your old self)

Ds are part of our dysfunctional “establishment” for now. We The People have been in shock for over 15 years with so-called “centrist” philosophies, which in reality are about the most right wing-ding, wingnuttiest times with the most disgustingly maudlin voluntary bend overs. I think they like it when they spread ‘em and pretend they are being “bipartisan”. They aren’t being bipartisan, they are being the political whores they always are when they are breathing easy, not that they are newly elected and thinking they can get away with it for awhile until we scare them again. What a bunch of junkyard dawgs these so-called “statesmen” are! Just what IS the difference between a politician and a prostitute? The prostitute is genuine while the politicians wear suits …

i’m part of the problem – didn’t start paying much attention to politics until sept. 12, 2001. got a lot of catching up to do.

When I sent my senator, Barbara Boxer a personal e-mail today, I asked her to do the right thing and be transparent with her vote. I reminded her we are all watching this vote very closely.

Mukei, is that you? (From ZCLA?)

Why is Dana Bash always the bearer of bad news from capitol hill?

Ok signed it. The lack of Katrina investigation is enough for me:

As a citizen of New Orleans Sen. Lieberman’s lack of follow through on his promises of investigations into Katrina are a disgrace. The citizens of the country deserve to know what happend. I deserve to know what happend so I can make an informed judgement as to whether or not Katrina could happen again.

Adding to the fundamental lack of basic performace of the job of Committee Chair the devisive and uncalled for attacks on our President Elect during the recent election, I am compelled to implore you to remove Sen. Lieberman of his Chairmanship of the Homeland Security Committee.

We have observed the operation of various other committees under their respective chairmen and there is no comparison with Joe Lieberman. He is a failure with regard to the Homeland Security Committee.

I have seen Sen Bayh on TV indicating the caucus can remove him later if it wishes. While this may be the case, I fear that if any real investigation is underway at that point that your caucus will be accused of obstruction of some sort. The appearace of impropriety must not be allowed to prevail in the Senate for the body is far too important to the overall governance of our nation. Similarly, the Homeland Security Committee is far too important to be entrusted to a person who’s execution of its chairmanship has been lackluster and furthermore whose basic views of the state of our nation is diametrically opposed to those of our caucus.

Please relieve Sen. Lieberman of his Chairmanship on Homeland Security and bestow on him another chairmanship that he would be more amenable to conducting faithfully and forcefully.

Thank you for your consideration.

from bmaz’s thread on T Boone Pickens (emptywheel site), we were discussing Buckminster Fuller’s attempt to make a difference with a more efficient car.

While researching Fuller’s final resting site (Mt. Auburn Cemetery, Cambridge, MA), I learned behind his grave marker there is a stone carving with the words “CALL ME TRIMTAB”.
What is Trim Tab?

Here’s Bucky in his own words (according to Wikipedia’s quote of Buckminster’s 1972 Playboy interview:

Something hit me very hard once, thinking about what one little man could do. Think of the Queen Mary — the whole ship goes by and then comes the rudder. And there’s a tiny thing at the edge of the rudder called a trim tab.

It’s a miniature rudder. Just moving the little trim tab builds a low pressure that pulls the rudder around. Takes almost no effort at all. So I said that the little individual can be a trim tab. Society thinks it’s going right by you, that it’s left you altogether. But if you’re doing dynamic things mentally, the fact is that you can just put your foot out like that and the whole big ship of state is going to go.

So I said, call me Trim Tab.

The Senate might be the rudder in this case, but we are the trim tabs.

Hi Jane!! Yep, it sure is. Sorry for the late reply – I hope you see this. I just got back from cleaning the zendo altars. (I never seem to stop doing that.)

How are you? If you can, try to stop by some time when you’re in town. It’d be great to see you.

In the meantime, check this out. I just posted a whole lot of China photos to my flickr last night. That’s where we were during the election (and yes, we all voted by mail before heading over there!). But it’s such a different experience being on the other side of the world while something so momentous was happening here.

Tuesday night here was already Wednesday afternoon there. As it happened, we were visiting a very poor, though quite wonderful, temple that day, located on the same site where the ninth century nun Moshan had lived and taught. Apparently, she was the first woman acknowledged as a dharma successor in the Ch’an tradition, and just as unusually she accepted both men and women as students. It was a rainy day. We had lunch with the abbess (amazing good food), then sat for a while in the zendo with the drip-drip of water leaking in through the roof. And just as we went back outside, Andy Ferguson (who arranges these pilgrimages) came up from the bus calling, “Obama is giving his acceptance speech!” It was so moving being there in that place linked to such a distant past, a place all the more beautiful for how plain and simple it is, with the air so fresh and the mountains full of mist and rain. Notwithstanding my comments above, it was very powerful, and I am profoundly grateful for what our country did while I was out there in the world (and for what you’re doing here, as well).

One simple word captures my reaction to all but a handful of Democratic senators” LAME.

In my opinion Lieberman is the Senator from AIPAC, which gives him powerful cover. The majority of the Senators fear any action that would displease AIPAC. Sad, but I think true.

Remind me again as to just how the Democrats differ from the Republicans? Good Cop Bad Cop, same department (Bipartisan). Time to flush them all. Primary them, yes, or better yet if there is a viable responsible third party in your state, build them up.

LIEberman: “…and PLEEESE don’t throw me in the briar patch!!”

Pelosi distinguishing between “leaders” and followers and Jane advising us to “Suck it up peasants” illustrates the nature of the conflict which is nothing less than an attack on hierarchy. While I doubt many here favor an egalitarian (non-hierarchical) society, the issue is who decides. Obama in his Sixty Minutes interview said he intends to get all kinds of advice, but in the end he must decide. We mock George Bush’s claim to be “the decider”, but like it or not, that is what he did, and that is what Obama will do.

When it comes to Lieberman or other issues we differ as to what is to be done. I see him as an ant and wonder if it is necessary to squash him. I step on ants when they come inside my house but leave them alone outside. I guess Lieberman came in the house and should be squashed, but it doesn’t seem to be happening. Indeed the secret ballot may be more to protect the Senator voters from us rather than him.

So what to do? How do we promote ourselves from peasants to people whose voice matters?

If their was ever a case for citizens to be able to revoke a Senator’s license to sit then this is it. I think that Dems need a party constitutional change that would allow general membership to excommunicate their heretics.

Dear Jane, I really admire you and what you’re trying to accomplish. And we must continue to try. But, as more details come out about the “Bailout” and Obama’s choice of Transition Team Advisors, especially on Intelligence and National Security, I can only feel we, the plebes, have been swindled once again by the Democrats in league with the Republicans and the Corporations. I believe very little will change in our country. Obama wants “premeptive detentions” and “national security courts”. This is not change and this is not freedom.

We need a real investigation of 9/11. We need a real investigation of the entire Homeland Security apparatus. We will not get this with Joe Lieberman in charge: we will get more of the same.

Kabuki? More like Off-Off-Off-Broadway.