Greetings Eli.

Hiya Balrog.

I wonder what the Mittens 2012 campaign has to say about this. This will be a large part of the conversation then, I’d wager.

Of course Eli, it’s always free speech as long as it’s approved speech.

Kinda like the Rs who believe in “bi-partisanship” as long as they get everything done their way.

Digg

It probably helps him with the religious right…

Thanks Eli.

digg

Not sure We the People is entirely bull.

Eli, how dare you suggest that it is OK to criticize the political actions of the Mormon and Catholic churches.

It is almost as bad as criticizing John McCain for his sleazy campaign tactics.

It is not done.

You’re right; criticizing churches is a violation of their First Amendment rights.

So he and Sarah will end up having a runoff for the nomination on ‘12. That’s fine.

I hope Mitt makes sure everyone knows all about her crazy witch doctor friends.

And she his.

beyond the unholy alliance of Mormons and Roman Catholics (including the stunning $1.2 million donated by the Knights of Columbus), I don’t think we can let Ayatollah Dobson get away without special mention for his million dollar participation.

Damn, I missed that one, although it would be pretty shocking if he hadn’t been involved. I don’t think I ever heard Dobson whining about his free speech rights, though…

Is anything going on with the tax exempt status thing?

that is one excellent post Eli and I wish these moron Mormon Theocrats could get a read of this post, though I am sure they would turn a blind eye to their own hypocrisy, I would still like them to look it in the face

Probably wouldn’t faze them. The idea that gay people should be entitled to the same rights as everyone else is completely alien to them. I think they’re also kinda hazy on the notion that we’re supposed to be a secular nation…

As a “long time gay” who has noted with some sadness the gradual fading of gay issues into the background, I would like to thank the Church of Latter Day Saints and their Catholic allies for achievement far beyond their original intent.

Thanks Mormons, for reviving Gay Rights Activism on a national level!

Dollar for dollar you have done more than you know, an influence vastly greater than your numbers would imply.

“You are not for obscurity designed, But, like the sun, must cheer all human kind.” – John Dryden

My polling place in Los Angeles was the Knights of Columbus Hall on Temple St. – conflict of interest much?

I can’t say I witnessed much civility from the Yes on (h)8ers campaigning on street corners the week before the election. On the other hand, the folks I demonstrated with today were very positive. (I posted a diary on same at Oxdown). (The county I live in, btw, defeated 8 with a vote of 66-33%.)

The Mormon church has a long history of victimhood….. They wear it well and hid behind that cloak frequently……..

When law enforcement wants to investigate sects that practice plural marriage…… the risks to kids who are sent to foreign countries on mission……. the throwing away of young teenage males in come communities so that they can keep all the ladies to themselves…….

IF they don’t want US to mess with their lifestyle ……. they THEY need to keep the F*ck out of ours……..

Amen to that. Maybe we should push for a constitutional amendment to outlaw polygamy just to piss them off…

Elections have consequences and for every action there is a reaction. Freedom of speech means that while you have the right to express and advocate for your position, others have an equal right to express theirs, as well as their opinion that you are an evil asshat. Live with it.

This is not to say that you have the right to express political opinions and take political action and still enjoy tax exempt status based on your being outside of politics.

Thankfully, the demographics are on our side. Every year, the support for outlawing gay marriage gets weaker and weaker. Just so long as we don’t get another generation of right-wing young Republicans, we should be okay.

Actually polygamy probably is illegal in every state…… even Arizona and Utah…..

OMG….. the Mormons were big money supporters on our prop 102 constitutional amendment to define marriage between ONE man and ONE woman…… think of that….. they may have F*cked themselves…… HOHO

Congrats on living in an outstanding county.

I figured as much; it would be more symbolic than anything else. That’s hilarious about Prop 102, though.

the goddam mormons are teeming with exploited women, sexually abused children, closeted gays, pornography -addicted husbands, and a repressed patriarchy that is angry, hate-filled, and scared shitless someone’s gonna come along and take their power.

in other words, a typical conservative religious group in america.

there’s my civil discourse for their evil ways… sure hope they don’t think i am attacking them…
only telling what i know…

(and i dont think i even hafta start up about papists, do i — sweet chocolate-covered jeebus on a stick!)
god bless america! oh, hell yes…

Just so long as we don’t get another generation of right-wing young Republicans, we should be okay.

Surely you jest. There will always be a fresh crop of right-wingers. Hopefully, as acceptance of marriage equality becomes increasingly mainstream we can marginalize the wingnut influence.

It is illegal throughout the US, but in areas with relatively high Mormon populations, like Utah, Nevada, and Arizona, local law enforcement generally turn a blind eye as long as there are no other complaints about the community. The situation is somewhat complicated by the fact that, at most, only one of the wives is a “legal” (state licensed) wife. Many of the polyganist sects do not recognize the state’s right to legitimate marriage. We have a couple of polygamist communities here in western Montana down in the upper Bitterrot Valley south of Missoula.

Many’s the time I’ve wished Northern CA would break off from S. CA.

Sure, there will always be new Republicans, but as long as they’re not in the majority we’re okay. Right now the youth vote is running 2-1 in favor of the Democrats – if that holds up for the next 20-30 years, it’s all over for the GOP.

It is alarming how so many purportedly ‘christian’ churches establish bonds of purpose by ignoring the admonition, “Choose for others only as you would choose for yourself.” Unchristian behavior, to be honest; but then, they weren’t that in their fear mongering advertising, either.

Ideally, there will eventually be enough same-sex marriages that it simply becomes an irrefutable feature of U.S. society. Then, even if the political climate swings back, nobody will consider it practical to attempt to put that genie back in the bottle.

Pederasts and polygamists unite! We must fight the immoral homosexuals!

-G

there is no civility with the wingnut fringe. unfortunately, that have $$$ and lots enthusiasm. it will be a protracted struggle.

It’ll just be like interracial marriage, gradually becoming acceptable, legal, and normal to a healthy majority of the country.

I gather same-sex polygamy is a non-starter?

Would that be like a himim?

not fer me. i don’t care what other folks do fer fun.

Or a sports team.

Do people get married for fun?

Colorado City is just a few miles from the Utah border in Arizona…… as you drive up that way……. there are sad little towns then you hit Colorado City…… and there are these BIG Ass houses that look like mini-apartment buildings ….. wonder how they make a living …..

OH I forgot …… these folks suck off the teat of the government…… those younger wives collect Aid to Dependent children and food stamps….since in the eyes of the law they are unmarried mothers …..

Repeal of the (probably unconstitutional) DOMA and active enforcement of the full faith clause of the constitution would help as well. The central thing we have to drive home is that marriage, despite the protestations of theocrats, is preeminently a secular institution concerned with the apportionment of legal rights and obligations and that sanctification is purely secondary and optional. That is, that only civil marriage is true marriage. Church weddings and the like are religious sanctifications of those civil marriages.

off topic: Why does the pictured “bull” have an udder?

Well it certainly did not work out that way for me.

sorry, after i typed it i knew it was wrong. it is not fun but i don’t know how to say it. sorry, i’m just straight. peace?

It is a transgender bull.

Book Salon upstairs

Yeah. They do that here. I think most of them are farmers here, which probably means they are living off federal subsidies.

No problem, I’m sure some people get married for fun, others because their mom is running for vice president and they failed to defend their goal from a boyfriend’s slippery puck.

Excellent, hard-hitting post, Eli.

Much appreciated!!

Yeah, I find polygamy baffling. Difficult enough to cohabit with one person.

More than I could ever successfully manage.

Thanks, DWB!

DUGG and commented – please help Eli’s message CRACKLE like a mighty thunder throughout hill and dale!

Best protest sign EVER, spied on some No on H8 tape:

“GAY MARRIAGE?!
What’s next, POLYGAMY!?!
Oh, wait…”

I bet the carrier paid Punaise to write it for the occassion.

Ratfood said it first, now that I recall.

Thanks for the post, Eli.
Honestly, the lack of basic reading comprehension shown by the H8ters is phenomenal.
IIRC, the First Amendment begins:
Congress Shall Make No Law…

It’s supposed to protect against reprisals from the _government_ under cover of law.

And where were these upstanding folks when the free speech rights of hundreds and hundreds of their fellow citizens were violently repressed in Minneapolis? Hello???

Teh Stoopid! It goez Kleer to teh Bone!

FunnyD

It’s a longstanding rightwing fallacy that criticizing their speech somehow infringes upon it. I seem to recall that coming up during the campaign too – Palin?

lol… It is Constance the Constitution Cow. It is supposed to be a cow, not a bull.

Here is South Jersey we flirted with breaking from North Jersey. We got 2 roads finished and that was the end of that.

Prohibiting abortion but advocating war and discrimination, counseling sexually abused children to keep hush, hush, “For the good of Holy Mother Church,” is not an expression of a “culture of life”. It is a demand for institutional power and to be immune from liability for its excesses. So, too, is its need to monopolize the attributes of marriage and parenthood, and the path to heaven. Christianity seems peculiar in believing that the path to eternal bliss can be walked only after the demise of competing religions. Perhaps that’s the historical legacy that comes with starting life as the unwanted offspring of a parent religion. Like other sibling and Oedipal rivalries, it has nurtured enormous harm.

People of faith have a democratic right to express their views in the public square without fear of reprisal.

That Mormon commentator displays ignorance of the law and skill at political spin in equal measure. He (it could only be a male speaking for the church) willingly conflates “reprisal” with criticism, in an effort to stifle it and protect his church from the logical consequences of its actions. That’s what political consultants do, not good parents or guardians.

The First Amendment’s right to freedom of speech does not protect the ideologically arrogant from criticism. Its purpose is to subject them to it. It is designed to promote an exchange of opinions and values, without which there is no community, only followership, no democracy, only dictatorship. But then, the Catholic Church, and presumably its Mormon cousin, has long sought to monopolize ideas and history, not to explore them or tolerate any but their own.

The Mormons, and every other religious organization ought to get used to citizens exercising their civil rights yesterday! I am as close to certain as I can possibly be that the State Supreme Court will find that Prop 8 offends the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution. I cannot understand how a rational individual cannot comprehend that a fundamental civil right cannot be abridged by a vote, especially when that vote was based upon the religious views of the electorate.
If I wanted to live in a theocracy, I would have moved to Iran – or Utah!
I got to marry my honey, why shouldn’t everyone?

Could we PLEASE have a 2012-free zone, for a week at least! I damn near didn’t get through this election. Besides there are wolves in wolves clothing who need to reap the consequences of their anti-American authoritarian oppression.

Let’s put a petition on the next California ballot to make mariage illegal.
Define vote yes: marriage as between two people.
Define vote no: no one can get married.

Thanks, Eli

“this ethical freakshow of a universe” … (Rachel Maddow)

why again don’t they lose their tax-status, church and state separation?

and how is gay marriage hurting anyone? (Ron Reagan)

I hand delivered the rest of my envelopes to the rectory yesterday and told the secretary to scratch my name off the list of people who belong to the parish of my church.

Time to go.

The issue at hand isn’t about the right of RELIGIONS to accept gay marriage, but for GOVERNMENT to recognize contractual mergers between individuals, which, from a government perspective, is what marriage is. All the arguments about whether gay marriage will tear apart the fabric of society is bogus. The fact that the Mormon church voted for the proposition shows that the Mormon church isn’t interested in a separation of church and state. The issue with the proposition was to extend to gay couples the same rights that straight couples enjoy. Specifically, those rights include:

a. the right to merge assets
b. the right to visit a partner in the hospital ill
c. the right to execute the will of their partner
d. the right to buy property where a married couple is treated differently than two non-married individuals (e.g., buying a house)
e. the care of children in the even of the death of one partner
f. the right to divorce and divide up the assets

I find it ironic that the Mormon church is against a proposition that is pro-family, as shown by points b,c, and e. points a,d, and f are essentially legal issues that the legalization of gay marriage would ensure. By the Mormon church moving against such tenets, and funding the voter drive against such a proposition, they are inherently violating the separation of church and state as defined in the Constitution.

Hypocrites all.