So any odds on joe saying sorry? I bet Obama will blame us for the public pressure that prevents joe from getting his chairmanship back.
I am all for the Netroots taking the Credit Blame.

I bet Obama will blame us for the public pressure that prevents joe from getting his chairmanship back.

Too bad. So sad.

Aloha, ES!

You just know you want to Digg it right now!

Hello ES

evening folks

I am all for the Netroots taking the Credit Blame.

Sold. Where do I sign?

Oh, hey ES!

Joey Low Road will not say sorry, because he is not.

He basks in the “Maverick™” image that his misdeeds give him!

Joe must go.

Joe will betray Obama if he stays and open up investigations of Obama like he never did with Bush. In which case we wont be able to remove him from his chairmanship without looking like we are trying to kill an investigation.
In which case we say I told you so!
Or we get the credit/blame for bringing joe down either way we are in the catbird seat.

and in pursuing said investigations, he will lord it over us how “bipartisan” he is, because, you know, a “Democrat” investigating a Democratic president…and by doing so, he will claim to be the “bipartisan” change that Obama has called for!

Joe must go.

Have I already said that?

Hey Friends,
Can’t stay long — I have to work tomorrow. But nice to see you “guys” here so late.

If RGJoe were a Republican and he treated that caucus the way he has treated his own, they would have figuratively barbecued him. Years ago. And without a hint of regret.
He is a rat.

Obama would save himself some future headaches if he would just let JoeLie twist slowly in the wind…

hi ChristineE!

I so agree.

I think independent Sen Bernie Sanders wants fellow independent GoPer Joe’s job I say we give it to him:)

Hiya!

Agreed Joe will not say sorry but I do think No Drama Obama wants to keep his rep.
Fine we can put the pressure on and take the credit/blame.
We do need some victories that Rahm can’t steal.

your sentence structure seems to suggest that you view Sanders as a GoPer

that can’t be right

perhaps I misinterpret…

(I realize Bernie is an independent, which Joe is not–he is a Republican–but Bernie is no GoPer)

Hey, Chris.
It’s “Spleen-venting” night at casa del newt.
How’s OH?

Its actually exactly what I want:) to bad joe is so sad.

Obama has so many more important irons in the fire

He should ignore Joe and let the Democratic Caucus live up to its name and uphold its honor

Hey Neuro,
What a crazy day, politically. Will Hillary be SOS?

You are right I meant to imply that independent Joe is a GOPer not Sanders sorry.

I think Short Ride should be forced, for the remainder of his sorry service in the U.S. Senate, be forced to sit at a “table of one” in the Senate Dining Room and eat Freedom Fries every day for the next four years.

Thanks for the music, ES.
I’ve liked the first group for years, now I really like Kasprzycki.

That is a very good point to bring up what would Bush have done to joe ?

OH is celebrating. We have finally torn off the curtain of shame.

I think she has a good shot. It has some political advantages for O.

But personally I was hoping Bill Richardson would get it, he’s experienced, he’s qualified, he’s Hispanic, and he was my first choice for Democratic nominee!

Congratulations! And welcome to the Real World!

Good evening all. Sorry so late. Got caught up in wingnut orama over the gay bashing initiatives in CA and AR.

Those people are never happy, even when they get exactly what they want. Bizarre!

Turns out at least a few Wal Mart executives contributed $$ to the haters in all corners.

Kisses!

Naw only the best in Chinese imports or things the FDA has yet to remove from their list but they are thinking about removing.
Just think of all the 30%er Wallmart shoppers who could brag to their kids look eaten every day by Sen Joe Lieberman!

The Republican party is laughing their asses off.
They don’t want him in their caucus – he is worth more to them right where he is – that’s how certain that the Dems will pull the el foldo.

I supported Richardson too but getting Hilary out of the Senate prevents her from going GOP on us in there.
I want Richardson in charge of New Mexico.
Hilary’s Gov in New York is African American I’m sure he will appoint someone close to Obama.

Yeah I’m afraid you might be right Joe in side the party can hurt us more there. Still I can hope right?

OK, I just need to check my gmail, don’t go away!

Which reminds me.. During the last two years Lieberman met with both parties senate strategy sessions. I know Lieberman was finally banned from those sessions with the D’s in the last few months. Still, one must ask, will Dems even ask that Lieberman not return to such a practice in the future?

it is a shame for our team to make it so easy for the thugs to get what they want

can’t we at least put up a fight?

(by “we” I mean our party’s “leaders,” not those of us here presently)

let’s see, Keith Olbermann lives in New York, or at least nearby…

I wish we could say the same. At least it looks like St. Ted is now part of our past.

Joe Bottini, the main prosecutor in the ongoing series of “corrupt bastards club” trials here, was in the audience tonight in a concert I was in, in Eagle River. He nodded to me as I walked by his family with my tuba. Cool.

I think the Ds will end up giving Short Ride a free ride

I’m with you. Recent days – Leahy and Sanders being adamant about it – it may be turning. But I fear that Harry will find a way to help his buddy Mitch. He always does.

Harry so needs a backbone

I needed some Island esape music tonight. Glad you liked it too, Margot. Kasprzycki is a native of Poland. First guy I’ve heard from that neck of the world with such a nice jazzy tropical side.

Comity.
Ugh.

I read somewhere this week, Richardson is also being considered for Sec of Interior.

Here’s the latest poll numbers. “Barack Obama’s big national lead over Hillary Clinton has all but evaporated in the U.S. presidential race, and both Democrats trail Republican John McCain, according a Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday. The poll showed Obama had only a statistically insignificant lead of 47 percent to 44 percent over Clinton, down sharply from a 14 point edge he held over her in February. … The poll showed Arizona Sen. McCain, who has clinched the Republican presidential nomination, is benefiting from the lengthy campaign battle between Obama and Clinton.” Well, yes, which was the primary purpose of Operation Chaos. (laughing)

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/ho…..guest.html

This here is for Jane! Remember Rush Limbaugh’s Operation Chaos? McCain briefly ahead in a bunch of polls that we DID NOT believe and soon went the other way?
As long as Rush gives the 30%ers hope they WILL NEVER CHANGE like they have to to get a majority!
Long live the lying Whale!

And near my dear daughter.

Has anyone seen my balls?

-Mikhail Saakashvili

That is a no brainer, but when the DLC is involved…

I like it:)

No Joe No Joe no Joe…. Joe must go Joe must go Joe must go!
Well that sums it up for me,
Oh and here is a song for Joe!

Neuro I Dugg your Digg as per our Agreement!!

hey nahant you are a good and loyal Pup!

They let him do it for almost two years! I intend to call and raise the question on monday. Maybe we should ask Maddow to raise it as well. *g*

We try(:>))

Putin might…

Puuuuutttiinnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-G

Kisses?

We must get rid of Harry! Ok after we get rid of Joe first thing first.

Here is another piece of crap perpetrated by Rove detailed by Scott Horton!

Hey,it is so late — “at it again” by Andy Stewart?

I’d love to know just who to apply unbearable pressure to to accomplish it. Unless his seat is genuinely threatened, where’s the leverage?

Time for Progressive activism to take the next step – targeted, focused, relentless assault on a safe seat.

No one seems to be preparing to challenge Harry for leadership, so far.

Didn’t Jimmy Carters son almost win a senate seat in Nevada in ‘06? I wonder if he would take on Harry in two years?

Siegelman accepted a campaign donation from Richard Scrushy, a health care executive he appointed to a state oversight board. The U.S. Attorney, Leura Canary, argued this was tantamount to sale of a public office and brought charges. (By comparison, the Bush Justice Department never examined any of the 146 donors of $100,000 or more to the Bush-Cheney campaign who were later appointed by President Bush to federal sinecures—taking the view that this was “politics as usual.”)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/b…..osecutors/

I honestly think it is the small things like this we can impeach Bush on easily.
After all who thinks that draft dodger Rove will take a bullet for Bush?

I’m up for it and Jimmy did endorse Obama:)

Just wait the economy will get worse retail sales are tanked and Christmas is coming up. All of the enablers will need to be given to the mob.
The GOP will point out Harry’s role in a him too defense.

Dow below 8,000 before March!

Ok that was an easy one:)

And I think young Carter is a pro choice Dem. Harry isn’t.

Well get him to Blue America!

Was it Nevada where Obama lost the primary vote and won the caucuses?

no one seems to have prepared Harry for leadership, either…

Howie and crew didn’t endorse him last time, iirc. Need to ask him why.

I think so.

More from Scott Horton:

A Ticket to The Hague for Dick Cheney?

Gene Burns is one of the nation’s most popular talk radio hosts. For years he has dismissed accounts of torture; America, he has said, does not torture. But last night, after watching Torturing Democracy and realizing that he had not understood how important and serious an issue torture had become, Burns abruptly changed his tune. Here’s a transcript of his remarks.

Full article here.

Yes!

Liberal Values

As expected, Hillary Clinton won a narrow victory over Barack Obama in the popular vote in Nevada, but it looks like Obama won the real victory there. While Clinton did better in Los Vegas, Obama received more votes elsewhere, including in rural areas. According to the formula used to distribute delegates, which takes into account the number of Congressional districts won, Obama will win more delegates than Hillary Clinton. It appears that Obama will receive thirteen delegates while Clinton will receive twelve.

I honestly think it is the small things like this we can impeach Bush on easily.
After all who thinks that draft dodger Rove will take a bullet for Bush?

I always hoped someday a real non Lieber Dem in charge of Homeland Security might look into this, Cheney’s daughter (and son in law) with millions of taxpayers dollars.. funding nefarious activities against Iran.

I’ve always said that I’ve thought that even at Guantánamo Bay the United States was careful to stay on this side of torture. In fact, you may recall that on a couple of occasions we got into a spirited debate on this program about waterboarding, and whether waterboarding was torture. And I took the position that it was not torture, that it was simulated drowning, and that if that produced information which preserved our national security, I thought it was permissible.

http://harpers.org/subjects/NoComment

I take it this guy never got in trouble swimming? By trouble I mean going to far and almost drowning.

what a price we as a country have paid for Senatorial courtesy

That’s Gene Burns, a Bay Area radio guy.
Look here for more transcript:

And then I saw Torturing Democracy.

And I’m afraid, now that I have seen what I have seen, that I was wrong about that. It looks to me, based on this documentary, as if in fact we have engaged in behavior and practices at Guantanamo Bay, and in these illegal renditions, that are violations of the international human rights code. And I believe that Dick Cheney is responsible. I believe that he was the agent of the United States government charged with developing the methodology used at Guantanamo Bay, supervising it for the administration, and indulging in practices which are in fact violations of human rights. Why not George Bush? I think that it would be easier to nail Cheney. And there’s a certain method to this madness: that if you go after Cheney–seriously, I’m talking now about a serious investigation by an international tribunal, and charges brought against him in the international court, so that he would be subject to arrest, and trial, just as Milosevic and some of the people involved in these behaviors in the Balkans were–that that would force Cheney, in his defense, to disclose the degree to which the president, George W. Bush, was culpable in any of this, if culpable at all.

They deliberately picked a person who was not a Middle East specialist, so that the conventional wisdom, well, let me rephrase, so that real, actual knowledge of the issues in the region wouldn’t interfere with policy.”

http://www.prospect.org/cs/art…..leId=11540

Bush is a Harvard MBA they don’t think you need to know a business to manage it!

Looking back (and it’s not over yet).. I am amazed it didn’t get much worse.

I disagree with him. Plenty of suggestions they (Condi, Bush, Cheney and others) were all in the room when it came to discussing and approving torture. Should jail them all, if at all possible!

You should be careful there to make clear that you are not advocating violence, which is not acceptable at fdl…

Yeah, but the point is – he flipped.

No matter how satisfying, let us keep our fantasy vengeance scenarios in our imaginations and out of print, please.

Hey you trying to take Suz’s job??

Indeed. If my bandwidth will alow… I’m going to watch it this weekend.

Can we advocate deep dark prisons with just itty bitty windows in them?? food slid under the door once a day? Huh Huh Lurk, these guys earned anything they get ya know…. just think of all the other humans who have had worse done to them..

I think anything the American justice system does is ok to mention in regards to Bush. But then again I’m watching reruns of OZ on HBO.

Hiya, pups! Done with concert, done with after-concert dinner with Ms. ET. Trying to figure out what Alaska Democrats have learned from the 2008 cycle. A lot of lessons.

Is Dave still up there with you?

LOL(:>)) Maybe even better deport them all to Pakistan or some where like that and let those people deal with them!

Deal or eat them:)

http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html

Since they have been so damned brave with the use of our forces, I presume they will feel right at home.

Can this be for real?

Blackwater guards face indictment for massacre
Prosecutors have drafted an indictment against six employees of Blackwater Worldwide, the private security contractor, for the deadly shootings of 17 Iraqi civilians last year.

People close to the case, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that the Justice Department is reviewing the draft, but no charging decisions have been made yet. Blackwater guards, pictured training, left, opened fire in a busy intersection last year, outraging Iraqis and straining relations between Washington and Baghdad.The guards are immune from prosecution in Iraqi courts . (AP)

Yep. Maddow had it. And the kicker – Blackwater not culpable, since these guys were ‘independent contractors.’

That schmuck is skating.

He just stayed for a few days. As far as do-it-yourself progressive bloggers and reporters coming up here, nothing going on right now.

I was walking by a downtown gas station and there was…Leon Panetta filing up his car. He was quite affable and relaxed. I told of my promoting him as a WH consultant. He said we was contacted and gave some advise but has no plan to join them on staff. He is happy running his Public Policy group in Monterey teaching young democrats.
really a nice fellow.

All the info you need to forward this news below

Action Alert: You Can Help Send Evidence of Bush War Crimes to the World Court

Sure is, ES! Nice to see that some justice might actually come out of it!

Just wondering haven’t seen him or Lindsay around lately but I’m probably just sleepin while they post.

That’s already been debunked by the IRS and the Dept of Labor, that they’re ‘independent contractors’…

Yeah, I remember that, too. Just reporting what was floated.

I wonder if these guys are going to plea before ChimpCo leaves town…

Plea for blanket pardons.

Nite Folks!

No kidding. Would it surprise anyone to find Eric Prince’s name among the pardoned?

I’m hoping we can find a way to get emptywheel up here in 2009. She has done more than any other writer outside of Alaska to give depth and perspective to Palin coverage. Her articles and essays have been brilliant, and my fellow Alaska bloggers and myself want to thank her personally.

Ironically, blanket pardons have no validity at The Hague and the actual act signing the pardons could be construed as an admission of guilt… What a wicked web, eh? ;-)

Aloha, tcu!

Dam smashed by the Pumpkin again….
Nite pups… sleep well when ya get there!!

That makes two of us..

pumpkin pie!

G’ nite firedogs

Aloha, nahant!

Hmmm… I came back in time to bid everyone aloha, eh? ;-)

Aloha, ES!

nite things
nite nahant
nite eureka

ET, I noticed that Caribou Barbie was snubbed by the Repug Guv’s in that they excluded her from all the leadership positions and committees…! Even my moderate Repug Guv, Linda Lingle, was put on the Steering committee… That’s gotta hurt! ;-)

Well, too much excitement for me tonite! I shall bid ya’ll a fond adieu! Aloha Oe!!!

nite tuttle
same here
later pups

She seems to be handling it OK

G’nite CTuttle

Oh dear god…

Waitaminute, was that a champagne flute? Kinda highfalutin’ there, Missy.

I don’t know what she’s drinking, but I got individual photos sent to me from that repeating montage, so I know the photos are genuine.

thanks, mod…

can’t sleep

it’s early not late

not that early, you’re right.

Good morning, pups. It’s Collins, Blow and Herbert today. Ms. Collins is asking about “Hillary for Secretary?” She says that Barack Obama is talking about letting Hillary Clinton be the point person on foreign policy. What happened to the transformative change? Mr. Blow, in “Back to the Future,” says if the Republican Party wants to be modern, it has to go back. Return to fiscal conservativism and ease up on social conservativism. Mr. Herbert says ” ‘Drop Dead’ Is Not an Option,” and that New York City’s fiscal crisis of the 1970s was in no way comparable in scale to the myriad crises facing the country right now. But it’s still instructive.

http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/

The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and I’ve got waffles with Vermont maple syrup this morning. I’m going to have a second cup of tea and then head out to fill the bird feeders, which I should have done yesterday, before every bird in Chatham County decides to go all Hitchcock on us because they’re hungry. Have a great day.

Morning, Marion – it’s in the 50s foggy and damp in Upstate NY — the NYC problems of the 70s basically were bailed out by Upstate. Since then, the State has become so dependent on Wall Street … and its bonuses, that the state is now in a really bad place. Paterson is basically espousing eviscerating the entire education system, K-12 and SUNY, plus healthcare, etc. to try to climb out of the hole.

Shame on you. Besmirching whales. (snark)

Great day to You too marion. I am headed the other way after an insomnical night.

If Bush pardons his buds that’s an admission that they were guilty of wrong doing. This may put them outside the US justice system, but deliver them into the open arms of the Hague for international Crimes which W’s pardons mean nothing.

If he doesn’t preemptively pardon his buds then, US courts can proceed against his cabal of cronies and criminals.

Obi might want to let bygones be bygones, but the world may have a different view of international war criminals. What’s good for the goose is god for the gander. Let the chips fall.

NYC sucked up to Wall Street and gave them enormous freebies not to move to Joisey. Suck bloomberg and the rest of them.

We need a REAL economy with REAL jobs in the state, not upstate prison warehouses and slacker fat cat jobs trading rubbish on Wall Street.

The old economy is still looking for its bottom and it has a ways to go. The question is what will drive the new one and how do “we” keep Wall Street’s greedy hands off everything with more than 6 zeros?

Morning pups, Thanks for the update and the waffles sound yummy. Overnight rain woke me up. It’s such an unusual sound around here. It should be heading your way Marion.

Right now we have fog and drizzles, but the forecast says rain is on the way. As a matter of fact, the trees are telling me the wind is picking up, maybe rain on the way.

Climate is against upstate. Jobs moved south. Though the whole state is gorgeous and has wonderful 19th century towns, Americans seem to prefer physically sterile shopping maul environments. A small silver lining of bad upstate economy is that the mauling of America was kept to a minimum there.

As for NYC, it priced itself out of normal people’s existence (speaking primarily of Manhattan, but it spread into the boroughs too) during the wild financial excesses of the 00s. Facing a long, painful adjustment I think. I bought my apt in the late 70s, near the bottom of that long painful adjustment.

Are you still suffering from a drought?

eCAHN – do you mean climate as in snow – or climate as in taxation/workers comp/not a ‘right to work’ state, etc.? I did economic development for NYSEG for 5 years and I never spoke to a company that told me that they would not come to NY or stay in NY due to the snow…but they could definitely get a better deal in other places, THEY THOUGHT, in the areas of taxation, etc. it’s not always true, but they thought it was. They just never took into consideration ALL the costs of doing business.

Good point. The move south started with physical climate, but then the southern states figured out they could accelerate it by beggar-thy-neighbor economic policies. At least that’s the way I would describe the short version.

Given the cheap labor now extant in other, mainly southern, states, and the propensity for warmer climes, it’s unlikely that upstate would have much chance of recovery. High-tech development centers are a good idea, but I can’t see that they would be large enough to boost the whole upstate area.

FYI, had a meeting on Thursday morning with the finance committee of SUNY-NP Foundation. The prez of the college was there. Both the Foundation & the college set up rainy day pools of money, so the college can get through this year’s crunch without cutting back much if the cuts don’t get a lot larger. Also have some cushion for next year. But if the cuts get a lot larger, there will be cuts in faculty and other serious cuts.

The state is facing drought conditions. Here’s the University of Georgia site with details.

Thanks. I hope it rains a lot for you today, then.

Yes – the Hyundai example in alabama is a pretty good one. The State reached into the pockets of the tax payers and spent $240 million to do all the infrastructure that should have been done years ago, plus private stuff like rail, electric, gas, and training. Hyundai got brand new infrastructure.

We’re all praying for rain, but some basic sensible conservation would help too. I found a blog about the Atlanta water shortage with a report from the Georgia Water Coalition. Maybe if they fixed their leaky pipes it might help a bit…

The new economy has to be more locally based businesses… the Malling of America is coming to an end and the big boxes go bankrupt one after the next. Rememeber (In)Comp(entent)USA.. gone.. then it was Circuit City… to be followed by BestBuy… and these are the guys selling chinese produced TVs PCs, and other electronics. Bye bye record companies too.

And all the linen and bath stores are going the way of the Dodo too as no one is buying to upgrade their underwater house or thinking about spending that home equity to eek out some more cash on the resell game.

We have lots of robber barons who made tons of money and are still spending it on luxury homes while there are companies in place who do this type of work and where they can actually spend it. Why sit on investments which are evaporating? Spend those millions on diamonds, marble, art and whatever baubbles are out there. The nouveau riche have taking a shot to the solar plexus… that segment is also going the way of the dodo and they were big spenders at the next tier down from the robber barons. Toll bros is heading for oblivion as no one is in the market for the idiotic poorly built McMansions in Burbia.

I am celebrating all the money I haven’t lost in investments and real estate.

eCAHN – the DH says that SUNY is going to be eviscerated before this is over, which is not what the state needs frankly. But, from an economic development standpoint, what we need in the state is a state economic policy that invests in people that are already in the state and who want to grow and develop in the state — not chase around trying to cannibalize companies from other states and communities. Grow our own. Work with people who WANT to be here.

Do you have any idea what return the taxpayers got on the $240 million? I have never done any local economic development, so I am not facile with how the analysis is done. I do enter the subject with a bias against what the govt studies show, though, because they have a vested interest in proving the tax giveaways worked.

OTOH, you can’t argue with the fact that job have moved south, so maybe the returns are really there.

Christy is upstairs with new thready goodness…

I don’t have the figures, though the ‘rule of thumb’ on the multiplier effect on manufacturing jobs is 3x around as I recall — alabama did not have one company that could have serviced auto manufacturing before they went about getting the investment in this way..now they have whole clusters of companies to service the manufacturers. They really changed their economy by doing this.

College edgemacation is fine and dandy… but we need jobs for those big heads when they graduate… and a way to pay for the rip off edgemencation. Fine and dandy when they got plucked to Wall street starting at 12kK a year. But that ain’t happenin. Know what an engineer makes with all them letters after their name?

Different world out there.

We need to think about work and how people paid for what they do.

Grow is a no no word.

We have been brainwashed to believe that we must “grow”.

The fact is we must SUSTAIN and we cannot grow.

Clear thy head of this notion that growing is where it’s going.

Disagree with you on making economy more local. It’s part of the solution, but only a tea-einsy part. I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about it wrt mid-Hudson region where I worked for awhile with someone with a small consulting business to foster green & local economies. There’s just no mechanism to make people change their behavior in the massive way that would be necessary to make the latter work.

WRT green economy, there is a good possibility that change will occur, but still less than 100% probability.

eCAHN – in the end, IMHO, it’s all about moving money around – if all you do is local, then the money that gets moved around is local. Businesses also need money coming into them from outside the local area, so they need to be doing things that OTHER people want/need. The question is: what do people want/need NOW? and into the future? And how to harness that – prepare for that?