As I said on the end of the last Leiberman thread, there’s only one reason why we are still stuck with this problem, and that is Obama. Before he interfered Lieberman was toast.

Rachel is right.
I watched that last night and stood up and cheered!

I am a wee bit smitten .

The smarts, it is a beautiful thing.

One vote out of 100 is like 1 cent out of a dollar. And pennies cost more to make than they are worth.

Thank you for reminding us, again & again. Tiger and stripes, I’d say, and he has had way too much time to see the light. Let him be gone.

Do it for Max Cleland Act Blue

you know what would really help?

I list of votes where the democrats actually needed joes vote to pass or fail legislation

I don’t want to see when he “voted with the democrats” if we didn’t need that vote

I want to see hem “voting with the democrats” when we would have lost if joe voted the other way

for instance, he voted FOR cloture when every vote counted and I believe if we look, when every vote counts he votes with the republicans

anyway to get a look at that stat?

ah, but a silver dollar costs more to make then a paper dollar but in the long run costs far less

The prevalence of the pro-Lieberman position seems so fundamentally irrational to me, that, as always, I suspect there’s some other dynamic at work, something about which we’re not being told.

Make sure the door doesn’t hit him in the ass on his way out.

I saw that segment last and thought it was totally on mark.

Love how RM sports the fire-inthebelly-dog colors!

Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science? ;)

Okay.
Now that it’s laid out for me, I’m on the phone to Feinstein and Boxer straightaway.

Joe fears for the survival of his country. Might I enquire which country he’s talking about?

Only if you don’t take into account the wear & tear on pockets & wallets and the inconveniece of having to put on your eyeglasses to see what coins you have, whereas you can read the amount on paper money without eyeglasses (especially in countries where bills are different colors & sizes).

Coins of all sorts suck and paper money is the only way to go. The additional cost to the govt is ipsy pipsy compared to the greater convenience to the poor taxpayers who actually use them. When I traveled 10 European countries in 5 days before the euro, I would just hold out a handful of coins at the airport shop and let the proprietor pick the “right” amount out of my palm.

darned if I’m not having trouble shaking that abiding contempt I have for HoJo. Sent a sternly worded fax to Barbara Boxer.

Joe Lieberman will do everything he can to obstruct the Democratic program. Bayh is a conservative Democrat who shrinks at the thought of the dangerous lefties taking over the party so to him Joe is insurance.

Keeping Joe Lieberman in the Senate is like having Carney, Doug Feith’s man from the Office of Special Plans, in the House, a Democrat in name only who hid his neocon connections and tricked the Democrats into voting for him. Lieberman has been very upfont about where his loyalties lie. It’s interesting that the last two GOP conventions have had keynote speakers from the Democratic Party. First Zell Miller spewing his hatred for Kerry and now Short Ride impugning the patriotism and intelligence of Obama.

And just an aside here….speaking as someone who studied Marxist economics in grad school let me say that having someone familiar with Marxist economics in the White House at this point in our financial Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride wouldn’t be a bad idea.

Erranding this a.m. I heard Mark Ritchie, the MN Sec of State, talk about the importance of the Minnesota brand and how all the people participating in the recount, R and D, have set aside their party affiliation from the time they took office to act in service to the country… [emphasis mine]

Service to country…not just when expedient or self-serving…what a concept.

There’s a whole lotta backdoor stuff going on in this chairmanship discussion, there’s a whole lotta message and attitude moving among the Senators. But I think Ritchie’s given an excellent meta-message that should apply to Lie-berman as DHS chair and every other decision coming down the pike for Rs and for Ds.

all the people participating … R and D, have set aside their party affiliation from the time they took office to act in service to the country…

i dunno. taht’s what biden’s there for isn’t he? to deal with legislative bird shit like this. i mean, it’s very important, but the prez can do without getting in the middle of a pissing contest. i don’t think the “hand off” is good news. i think Biden will be in Joe’s corner. Maybe he’ll take it persoannly though — since it was personal. Lieberman tried to keep Biden out of office in favor of that imbecile. more i think about it, the more pissed I’d be if i was Biden. In the end, though, Joe L. is a member of the club and he and Joe B. go back.

Did the Dems ever give him back his contribution? they should. a good chunk of it could be raised on-line I betcha.

Damn, that Rachel is a national treasure!

I’ve been out of teh loop for …. since about the election actually; why, exactly - WHY?!

Klobuchar echoes Bayh’s call for apology. Seems like the kind of weak kneed thing the Ds always do right before they back off altogether.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/.....n-apology/

“America will not survive.” Christ. We survived Bush. Couple a douchebags.

Do you mean why did Obama interfere? If that’s your Q, I certainly don’t know, and having been in the loop, I haven’t seen a good explanation from anyone else. The O defenders seem to be saying that we should trust him, he grew up in Chicago politics & must know what he is doing. (Obama defenders feel free to correct my characterization or add information.)

Klobuchar echoes Bayh’s call for apology

I just go the email;

I’m Joe Lieberman and I apologize for calling Barack Obama a Marxist, I apologize for saying palin has more executive experience, I apologize for saying Areys was an issue of concern, I apologize for saying he wanted us to be defeated in Iraq, I apologize for lying about Barack voting to eliminate funds from our troops

I apologize for allowing alto a seat on the supreme court

I apologize for lying to get elected, I apologize about not running if I did not win the democratic primary

I apologize for saying I wanted to investigate Katrina when I did not

and there are a bunch of other things I apologize for which I will enumerate later”

Lieberman makes me want to puke. I’d love to see him shitcanned.

That said, I’m not entirely convinced it’s a good idea to vote him off the island just yet. Maybe–and this could be wishful thinking on my part–the Obama administration wants to keep the waters calm during the last bit of Bush’s reign of error. If Lieberman switches parties now in a fit of pique, doesn’t that, with Cheney’s tiebreaker, essentially give the Senate to the Repubs for the rest of the term? I bet with control of the Senate, at a minimum, a lot stalls out. At worst, the Bushies might push through some other mischief.

Obama may be keeping options open pending the outcome of the outstanding Senate races, banking on the idea that Lieberman can be more effectively leveraged when he’s vote #60 than when he’s vote #51.

If Lieberman does still occupy his chairmanship the day after Obama is sworn in, it will be because Rahm has told him, “Toe the Democratic line like a ballerina, or we go Chicago all over you and your house.” The first time he doesn’t vote the way Obama wants, BAM.

ipsy pipsy?

how can I argue, I therefore agree

Geez, Lieberman’s locution & spelling seem just like those of some commenter here. *g*

But am so happy to see he’s turning himself around. /s

When Obama entered the senate, Lieberman was his mentor. Holy Joe showed him how the senate operated, where to go for what, etc. They were close, by all reports.

Boxturtle (Which ought to make that knife in Obama’s back that much more painful)

Call out the firewords & champagne. First time I’ve ever convinced you of anything!

Yer apologies, they don’t hunt, Senator. Just say Bye, Bayh. And double for you, Joe L.

I’ve thought about that a lot. But weighing the evidence, didn’t Lieberman more than overcome his original help with heaps of harm during the campaign?

pains me to say it, but i can see keeping lieberman in the caucus iff he promises to vote with the Ds to prevent Rs from blocking important legislation.

but i can not see any reason for an important committee chair.

Let’s hope O’s shunning puts a little spine into those who are reading the tea leaves. Joe Lie did not hesitate to harm the party at every chance he had in the campaign. The part should return the “favor” and remove every committee assignment he has, strip him from the caucus and give him an office in Wasilla City Hall. That’s as close to the Senate as he should be allowed.

but how will ipsy pipsy play in Poughkeepsie?

iff he promises to vote with the Ds to prevent Rs from blocking important legislation.

And Lieberman’s promises are worth …? Rhetorical Q.

Thanks Jane.

digg

Ipsy pipsy sometimes does joint appearances with tea-einsy.

Damn straight. Joe’s got to go. This is so beyond obvious that if Reid doesn’t strip Lieberman of leadership, it’s time for Reid to go as Senate Majority Leader.

via an AmericaBlog reader:

Not sure I agree with you on what to do with Lieberman. I totally agree that he has behaved like a scum bag and I personally find him odious and totally untrustworthy. But if Lieberman is one thing, he is an opportunist. If he keeps his gavel, because the tide has turned, I think he will behave. His committee can boot him if and when he continues down the path he has been on so he is on notice. He was put on notice by Evan Byah last night.

Obama and Rahm want 60 votes and they will take all the Republicans they can get to vote for Obama initiatives including Lieberman. Apology? Not going to happen. Do they care? No. Obama is a pragmatist through and through. He just wants results. The best revenge is going to be passing the Obama agenda with 60 + votes. That is going to be the sweetest revenge on these last 8 years. The American people are going to like it and the GOP is not going to be in power again any time soon.

wishful thinking.

I want Lieberman chairing DHS. And then I want the committee axed and broken into two or more committees. One of the committees could go to Lieberman, perhaps the Department of Dogshit Security.

“Let’s give it up for Joe Lieberman, folks. He’ll be here all week four years. Try the vile.”

Were I in Obama’s shoes, I might want to throw Holy Joe under the bus myself. IMO, what Holy Joe did would be enough to kill even the closest friendship.

Either Obama needs Holy Joe for something (what??) or he wants to keep his hands clean.

I think we ought to take all Holy Joe’s committee seats and then hope he gets a better offer from the GOP. And if he swaps parties, we take his current office and move him in with the freshmen.

Boxturtle (Given time, I’m sure I can think of other actions worth taking)

OT — who’s pushing the Hillary at State story? An Obama team trial balloon? Or a Hillary push?

& punaise.

We could follow Joe around with “The Kiss” for the next 4 years. Sorta like the labor activists that go around with their blow-up 8′ rat to employers of bad practices.

Honestly, that is an interesting strategy we mentioned a few days ago in another thread…I think you were a part of the comments on that strategy…

Obama can reorganize and he has ample examples for making his case.

So, you give him his chairmanship and then, as part of the Obama scalpel, transparency and security dialogue, you take it away in reorganization but he remains with a lesser chairmanship in efforts to retain chair responsibilities.

What Joe does then is Joe’s to own.

collateral.

(link from a previous thread - but worth reading if you haven’t already)

IMHO, this is the center of the Democratic party wanting to use JoLie as a shield against the left sensible wing of the party. That’s all it is. Vichy Dems know if Joe is gone, we start targeting them next. That’s why they want to keep him.

I learned this from others, it’s not mine. If I have miscommunicated it, deepest apologies.

whatever happened to that nuclear option that was gonna make filibusters illegal? or was that only when the repiglicans were in charge?

Better yet, dismantle the Department of Nazi Names all together and eliminate that problem with the stroke of a pen.

Some speculation in Early Morning Swim, but no particularly compelling story.

Hadn’t read it, but seems like wishful thinking to me.

completely agree.

therefore there is no reason whatsoever - if getting things done is the goal.

…off to the vets (sick cat).

McCain chartered the Gang of 14…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_14

(((selise’s cat)))

this just needs MASSIVE DIGGS!

Good point. IIRC, it was the Heroic Gang Of Fourteen that saved the Filibuster.

By all rights, the filibuster should be in trouble again - this time to the detriment of the minority R party.

(My infant son posted that above. Please accept my apologies.)

Geez, Issa & Kuchinich seem like conjoined twins in the hearings today. As selise said: hell has frozen over.

Don’t apologize. It was one of the more enlightening comments. *g*

Cool! I didn’t realize there was precedence. Wrote my comment and had to head for work.

OT
Heh, RGA voted Palin off the island.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/.....eadership/

anybody visualizing a horse’s head in Joe’s bed?

What’s going on? Kuchinich and Issa??

Ouch! That’ll leave a mark.

Well, not a horses HEAD….

Boxturtle (and a live skunk in his office)

You know, Joe Biden should just invite Joe Lieb to come and watch Rachel’s commentary…Then Joe B should ask Joe L, “Well, is she correct on all her points or not Joe L?”

Plus, decent linen paper is nearly as tough as a coin — and even tougher, in some environments. A dollar bill can easily survive a winter stuck in a slushy, salty pile of snow. Try that with a coin and you might not have something recognizable as a coin by the time March comes around.

1,826 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Thanks, Sister Jane, do you think that the most recent examples of fascist opposition to an American economic recovery are beginning to turn the light on for Democratic leaders like Dodd and Reid? I mean, has the apparent willingness of the “shrinking three” US automakers to expose themselves to bankruptcy in order to kill the unions allowed the Democratic leadership in Congress to see what they are up against and see Joe Liebermann in the light of reality?

I think that Obama has known what we’re up against for some time, though I think that the auto industry’s willingness to go all in with bankrutcy as their last card on the river caught him short. Do you think that this turn of events along with the open defiance of the fascist Treasury Department will push Obama to call the bluff and get someone like Stieglitz (sic) or Krugmann or Corzine for the treasury job? And what does this new level of risk mean for the muscling up of a new Justice Department…will we get some real anti-trust lawyers back into the country’s law firm?

It seems to me that Obama has been goin’ for a “twofer” in his positioning with regard to Liebermann and Reid up to this point…that is, he has dumped the entire problem on Reid by sayin’ “I want Liebermann in the caucus” and in soto voce “but I don’t want ‘im anywhere near a chaimanship”. This means that if Reid doesn’t have the stones to dump Liebermann, Obama will and Reid will lose the leadership. Does this play in the scene as you read it?

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION AND REMEMBER ALL PROBLEMS START IN IRAQ!!!

Dugg!

I’d rather see it hit him hard enough that he bounces a couple of times.

Hearings on cspan.
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/1744

In the first part they made a punching bag out of Kashkari. In this afternoon’s part, they’ve assembeled witnesses who say that Treasury’s doing it all wrong.

Issa is as much on the attack as Kucinich, and the former is even empathizing with the latter on Treasury’s letting National City Bank go (a 160 year old Cleveland bank). Issa even said that he was allowed to attend a Progressive Caucus after some prior hearing, and seemed to appreciate the invitation.

It’s quite a performance.

Thanks for that piece of information. I didn’t know that. I am pleased to let you know that I convinced perris!

One of very few intelligent and compelling voices in the corporate media. She’s a truth teller. Maddow is making a difference and the corporate celebrity hacks might even learn something.

There are a couple of new comments that are good. (The one with JoeL and McCain/Palin in particular is worth reading.)

i’d rather be reading: Obama is Shunting lieberman .. off to pasture .. droopy dawg needs to be on the sidelines chewing that cud ..

Darrell Issa needs the auto companies to survive for his own business to survive. Issa owns Directed Electronics, Vista CA. They design, import and market remote start, auto alarms and other aftemarket vehicle accessories.

Once again Norske, you have it pretty close to right I think. That would

be the way to do it, find out what you can expect when push comes to

shove before the next session and clean house at the same time.

Intelligent and efficient. Hope it comes to pass.

Were I in Obama’s shoes, I might want to throw Holy Joe under the bus myself. IMO, what Holy Joe did would be enough to kill even the closest friendship.

If you didn’t notice, Obama just threw Lieberman under the bus by refusing to take his call. Washington DC is a court system, and when you can’t see the king, and when the king won’t see you, you are nobody. Obama just sent Lieberman and the other Senators a message they all understand.

If you didn’t notice, Obama just threw Lieberman under the bus by refusing to take his call. Washington DC is a court system, and when you can’t see the king, and when the king won’t see you, you are nobody. Obama just sent Lieberman and the other Senators a message they all understand.

I think you’re reading far more into this then there is

you will be right when joe is tossed from the committee, otherwise I disagree

I think there would be far fewer Republican filibusters if they were forced to ACTUALLY filibuster. I still cannot get over Reid allowing them to get away with (what I consider) fake filibusters.

There is always the Nuclear option
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Option

I agree. Whether Dems kick him out or not, Joe will be demanding a big ass kiss on every vote anyhow. So boot him, then kiss his ass when you need too, rather than keeping him and sucking up.

I think it was poorly handled also. Reid disingenuously points to the number of times Republicans filibustered. As if he had any control over it.

The theatrics of real fb’s would have been poisonous to the Republicans.
Reid is a milquetoast. Maybe he’s a bit lazy too.

Lieberman is sort of like an over-payed professional athlete that is kept on the team because he was a valuable player at his signing but after a few years has regressed to the point where he no longer contributes or is productive to the team. The over-payed player continues to hang on because of recognition of his past performance, sentimental attachment from the team’s coach and owners, the huge investment they have in the player, and the hope that he will “turn it around” and have a few more good years before his contract expires.

What they should really do is dump the over-payed player which would allow a younger player to move in to his old position and give the team a chance to win the championship. It would be better for the team in the long run, looking at the big picture, but the front office is conservative and more likely to work with what they have and try to make a go of it with that old player that has been so valuable in the past. The thing is, they usually come around and end up dumping the player anyway. Our team needs to dump Lieberman and move on for the over all good of the party and stand for what it campaigned on “Change.”

Do you believe our voices are being heard?? They better be -this is not an Obama cabinet position.

He had already made his mind up on Emanuel.

But now we have Clinton. Her aides first said the visit to Chicago was not related to Obama. Now they admit it was to meet with Obama.
She is antithetical to every foreign policy position of Obama, millions of his supporters, and to the hopes of 99.9% of the Universe.

All of those hopes are gone in a heartbeat if he gives her the SOS post.

She and the Lieberman supporters are fervent believers, for example, in the use of cluster bombs on civilian populations who don’t …obey.

If Clinton gets it, we know who Obama has chosen to listen to - and it ain’t US.

Rachel’s logic is impeccable. The Dems’ logic, as usual, is both flawed and lame.

Here is yet another flaw in their reasoning: They talk of this magic number 60, as though it is crucial to do anything, as though the R’s possession of filibuster power would be a giant wrench in their ingenious plans.

But, I ask them this: When you were on the other side, when you were the minority, and you could have filibustered over important matters, how many times did you? When you had the power to take a stand on principle and to call the nation’s attention to issues of vital importance, how many times did you?

So, now you’re worried about the other side using this power? Now, your majority isn’t enough to get to work? Weak, lame, and just plain pathetic.

Why do I love Rachel? Let me count the ways. Joe must go!

I think Committee Chairmanships are established soon in the session and are not touched subsequently. At least it takes a large supermajority within the Committee to remove a Chair. I know that Reid is talking about reducing the number of GOP members on the Committees, so maybe they could get enough votes to remove JoeLie at some point.

I doubt that Lieberman could do much harm in the interim. True…Bush has called upon Congress to hold a special session dealing with the economy. But no other business is being scheduled. And if the invertebrate Democrats could grow a spine THEY could filibuster!

I love you Rachel

Yeah - the question was ‘why the interference by Obama as far as Lieberman is concerned?’

I’ll have to come back to this. Off to work.

Yup, yep, yip. Lieberman is the proverbial divorce attorney who makes money only while his clients keep fighting. He doesn’t want mediation, he doesn’t want reconciliation, he doesn’t want a final decree. Like Cheney, he wants continued conflict, because that gives him power and keeps him feeling essential.

Lieberman’s notion of “bipartisanship” and “gentlemanly behavior” mocks the standards set by his Senate forebears, like Bill Fulbright. Joe will be all Jim Lehreresque and polite while he implies that the leader of his former party is a communist on economics and a terrorist-abettor on security. He will sell his votes to the highest bidder, one at a time. He has no home constituency to keep happy; most of them want him out. He’ll never vote with Dems on less war and more peace. On social issues, he’ll go with whomever strokes him the hardest.

Reid and McConnell know that Kneepads would never be a reliable 60th Democratic vote on anything. Why the debate? To make the Dems appear more powerful than they are? Or to avoid using the power they have because it might entail, you know, accountability?

pains me to say it, but i can see keeping lieberman in the caucus iff he promises to vote with the Ds to prevent Rs from blocking important legislation.

a) Would you really trust the lying son-of-a-bitch to keep any “promise” he gave; and

b) How would Dems enforce that promise?

I don’t trust him. I’m reluctant to let him stay in the caucus, where he can take notes and then go huddle with his Repub pals about Dem plans and strategy, but I’m REALLY against letting him have the committee chairmanship.