According to Roll Call, Obama is now actively helping Joe Lieberman retain his Homeland Security chairmanship:
With President-elect Obama's fingerprints seemingly everywhere, momentum appears to be building among Senate Democrats to let Sen. Joe Lieberman (ID-Conn.) keep his chairmanship of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.
"The overall atmosphere is toward reconciliation," said one Lieberman supporter, who noted that Obama "has in a large sense set the tone" by calling for Lieberman to remain a member of the Senate Democratic Conference.
However, Democrats still say they are exploring options for penalizing Lieberman in other ways for his disloyalty to the party during the 2008 election cycle. Those options might include stripping him of two plum subcommittee chairmanships, or taking away his membership on either the Armed Services or Environment and Public Works panels.
Lieberman allies, including Sens. Tom Carper (D-Del.), Chris Dodd (D-Conn.), Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), and Ken Salazar (D-Colo.), have been part of a group that is trying to find a way to punish Lieberman for his ardent support of GOP presidential hopeful Sen. John McCain (Ariz.), but still allow him to keep his Homeland Security position.
"They're trying to figure out what has to be done to keep him in the caucus without it looking like he has gotten off scot-free," said the Senate Democratic aide.
The issue still appears to be headed toward a vote in the Senate Democratic Conference on Tuesday.
Support for Lieberman appears to have been growing since Obama began making calls to several top Democrats to discuss the Connecticut Senator's status. Since then, several senior Senators began making statements that seemed to indicate a willingness to let Lieberman retain his gavel.
In addition to telling Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) that he would like for Senate Democrats to find a way to keep Lieberman in the Democratic fold, Obama has had similar conversations with other top Democrats – including Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.), Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), and Lieberman's home-state colleague, Dodd, sources said.
Obama is close with all four of those Senators, each of whom endorsed him in his quest to win the Democratic Party's presidential nomination this year.
Evan Bayh was on Rachel Maddow last night, making the completely incoherent argument that the Democratic Caucus had the power to control Lieberman and the Homeland Security Committee:
MADDOW: Joe Lieberman didn't investigate the government's response to Katrina or the Blackwater shootings in Iraq or anything like that. Are there going to be real interparty divisions on security issues, or do you see a united front going forward?
BAYH: Well, I would hope we would have a united front. And you know, if the caucus and the committee feels that there are areas worthy of investigation -- and you mentioned two that I think would warrant investigation -- then there should -- one would need to go forward, regardless of what the chairman happen to think. And we have the power to demand that sort of thing.
Really? So if Bayh thinks that Lieberman should've investigated Katrina after having promised to do so (a promise he abandoned immediately after the GOP helped him retain his Senate seat), why didn't they do something before? They're going to take action and make him do it now?
I'm supposed to believe this?
This isn't about "getting stuff done" or "putting partisan politics behind us" as Bayh claims -- this is about conservative Senators who are concerned that "the base" can do to them what they did to Lieberman. It's about Obama making them comfortable that we can't organize against the war, or FISA, or any of their pet projects in a way that could be threatening to them.
I spoke with a source knowledgeable about Reid's reasoning on the Lieberman matter early on in the process, who said that Reid believed taking Lieberman's Homeland Security gavel away from him was more likely to keep him in line with the Democrats -- not less. Knowing that Lieberman can't get elected in Connecticut in 2012 as a Republican and that the Democrats were ready to crack the whip, it was not unreasonable to make an inference that that Lieberman would stop making so much trouble.
Any action on the part of the Senate Democrats will be unlikely to change the nature of Lieberman's voting, which will continue to be petty and vindictive no matter what the Democrats do.
But the fact remains that over the past 7-10 days all the lobbying has been done by the pro-Liberman forces. "We don't have a spokesperson with the courage to speak up and say 'he should not be able to get away with what he's done to our caucus,'" said the source.
It's interesting that they sent Bayh as the messenger on to the Maddow show, despite the fact that someone like Dodd would undoubtedly be more well-received. After Steve Clemons of the Washington Note published that Bayh was at the top of the VP list, vociferous opposition among the netroots dashed any chance of success.
It's also noteworthy that people now think, much like Obama did when he made a GOTV appearance before the election, that the Maddow show is the way to plead their case before the base. (They're right, BTW.)
But Bayh's appearance was for Bayh. His concern -- like that of Salazar and Pryor and other Democrats whose voting records are probably often to the right of Lieberman's -- is for himself. It isn't about putting partisanship behind us.
It's about political payback, and it's just as partisan as it can be.
Call Democratic Senators and tell them -- Just Say No to Joe.
Sign the petition -- Joe Must Go.
Login Here
Spotlight



Support this site!
Keep
up with news
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search


RSS/XML Feed
I suspect the Dem leaders logic, if you can call it that, is that they suck it up and hopefully Joe will vote with the party and then in two years, they can win some more seats and give him the bum’s rush. Pretty risky gambit.
Any of them that vote to keep JoeL as chair of that committee should get primaried next time they’re up, if they don’t retire first. I’m not going to forget what JoeL’s done to us, and they shouldn’t either. (I keep hearing ‘but he votes with us on everything but …’ F*ck that; he doesn’t vote with us when it really matters.)
John Scalzi has an interesting take on this whole thing. Put down the coffee first.
Obama’s focus should be on health care reform and alternative energy…and how to use both to grow the economy….the issue about Lieberweasel is whether Obama gets more votes on these key issues by keeping the weasel as the head of Homeland Security or by letting him go…I don’t know the answer to the question.
I have a modest proposal in this regard. (Don’t miss the PS in comment number 1).
Digg it.
Obama’s apparent “let’s put this behind us” attitude implies that there will be no accountability for the Bush administration.
How much is a single vote worth to these bozos? My Minnesota math says 1 vote out of 100 is similar to a penny. And pennies cost more to make than they’re worth anymore.
Done with mallet aforethought?
Nice! Obama is already working hard to lose my support.
If he is all in love with Lieberman, then he is my enemy and an enemy of change, good governance, separation of powers, etc. If he is FOR Lieberman in the caucus and still in charge of Der Faderland Security cmte, then he must favor that committee’s absolute lack of oversight over ANYTHING that Bush did - and that means he seeks the same freedom to totally destroy the US proper and her people without any consequences.
Obama comes out of the gate with the wrong foot and trips himself into being just another No-Accountability-President.
Fluffing the GOP and its fellow travelers ALWAYS ends badly. ALWAYS.
Okay, I’m willing to consider throwing in the towel on all the campaigning slander and smear.
That still doesn’t change the absolutely wretched failure to chair the Homeland Security Department in the interests of anyone other than himself and anything other than covering up and cronying for team Bushco. There is no none nada acceptable compromise on that.
Joe says he needs to “atone”
Bayh says he needs to “apologize”
One American citizen says he needs to go. And one more, and one more and one more…we are legion. This isn’t about political theatre.
This is about one Senator on a personal power trip abusing the power of his chairmanship.
What’s to stop the next guy?
That’s the crux of it. We need representation.
What a sham! Bringing change to Washington, letting bygones be bygones, this is very much the same old same old business as usual claptrap we have always seen. If McCain was a pompous old hypocrite for calling himself a maverick and straightshooter, what do we call Obama and his message of change?
Ah, the brotherhood of the Senate. That’s how we ended up with John Ashcroft as Attorney General, a man who did great harm to our nation in that role. Sure, compared to Gonzales he was almost competent, but by historical standards Ashcroft was a dismal mark on our nation.
America’s government shouldn’t be run like a college fraternity, it should be based on competence and effectiveness. Leiberman has neither of those things.
The word you are looking for is “liar”.
Dugg, thanks for the link.
puppethead, good to see you here again.
Here is a revealing quote from an incoming Democratic Senator:
I conclude from this that you get your way with them by sticking a knife in their hearts, via the solar plexus.
Bullseye.
Clever.
I would say the answer is that we need to do to them what we did to Lieberman.
In somewhat related news, the dem challenger to Steven’s Alaska senate seat is now ahead by nearly 1,000 votes- and Minnesota’s looking good. One nasty seat in Georgia in addition and dems have 60.
I give that about a bazillion to one odds.
Bayhs appearance on Rachels show was pathetic. No compelling reason for Jumping Joe to stay in the caucus except “we may need him some time”. The DINO’s are just protecting one of their own, as sorry a personage as Joe is.
I wish Rachel would have asked more penetrating questions regarding Joes performance as Committee Chair and what would a DINO have to do to get in trouble with their comrades. Shit, even the GOP has higher standards!
Neither my wife nor I were happy with Obama as the Dem candidate. I was, for a long time, determined to vote 3rd party for President as a result. In the final stretch, however, I decided that it would be truly horrific to allow McCain/Palin into office so I wavered and pushed the button against McCain (Obama).
Now I am already wishing I’d voted 3rd party afterall. Obama is going to keep on with the same tired, broken shit that has been going on for the last 20 years. He really is going to simply repeat the Clinton years with just a few tweaks (that’s his “change” for you, mere tweaks). He is clearly serving the same clubby idea that all in DC much watch out for each other rather than for the actual country of actual HUMAN BEINGS (no, Senators and Reps are NOT human beings…they lose that attribute when they compromise solid Constitutional or ethical principles for personal gain by voting for some awful bill or worse, vote for bills that they haven’t even read.).
Obama: by, of, and for the DC elite!
Why is the democratic party against it’s base (who, by the way has been right on the war, FISA, etc.)?/rq
here’s a suggestion;
call his bluff
It’s beginning to look like that. Time will tell but the entrails do not look auspicious.
The new question for me in re Joe and DHS, is what crimes are so large that both the D’s and Rove/Mel Sembler Republicans are working in tandem, for years, with millions of dollars to cover up.
Joe Lieberman has been a shiv in the side of Clinton. Gore, Dodd, Obama, Lamont, to name a few. Not to forget the constitution, needless wars, and rape victims.
Something is terribly terribly wrong… and it ain’t the tin-foil industry.
And Bayh’s framing last night.. any opposition to Joe was just seeking “revenge” was simply an outrage!
I signed the petition, but as for this:
IF TRUE, which no one really knows, I don’t mind a bit. In fact, I think it may be ultimately much smarter than following through with well-deserved retribution. I’ll even go so far as to say that I now think this petition-signing stuff is really silly, because Obama may be doing the Jedi warrior thing on Lieberman: by protecting Holy Joe, he puts him in his pocket. MUCH better to have him indebted to the new president than to have him wounded and embittered, sabotaging on the sidelines.
Obama is miles ahead of any of us, especially the ole progressive blogosphere. That’s my read.
Bayh’s reasoning on Maddow was, essentially, that we should let the petulant temper-tantrum-throwing brat have his way, because if we don’t, he’s liable to make a fuss.
Jane, is there anyway to leverage the Where’d the Dough Go Joe? before next week’s vote in the Democratic caucus?
OT, anyone know who the members of the Democratic Caucus up for re-election in 2010?
Baucus, MaxDMT (Senate) Undecided
Biden, Joseph R., Jr.DDE (Senate) Undecided
Bingaman, JeffDNM (Senate) Undecided
Boxer, Barbara DCA (Senate)
Byrd, Robert C.DWV (Senate) Undecided
Clinton, Hillary RodhamDNY (Senate) Undecided
Conrad, KentDND (Senate) Undecided
Christopher J.Dodd CT Undecided
Durbin, RichardDIL (Senate) Undecided
Harkin, TomDIA (Senate) Undecided
Inouye, Daniel K.DHI (Senate) Undecided
Kennedy, Edward M.DMA (Senate)
Kerry, John F.DMA (Senate) Undecided
Kohl, HerbDWI Undecided
Leahy, Patrick J.DVT (Senate) Undecided
Levin, CarlDMI (Senate) Undecided
Pryor, Mark L.D AR Undecided
Reid, HarryDNV (Senate) Undecided
Stabenow, DebbieDMI (Senate)
Depending on who they are, we should probably look real hard at telling them right now that we’re considering supporting a primary candidate against them.
Good question!
Because they still think we’re a center-right nation?
I dunno, that’s all I can think of.
They treat us the same way the Rs treat their fundies - a good source of money and volunteers, whose desires can be safely ignored after the election.
I have to say that the arguement against punishment for Lieberman is kind of like Pelosi’s arguement against impeachment of Bush. It is BS through and through.
Dems have been beat day in and day out by Reps for a long time because they have discipline.
How can we have discipline in any way shape or form when we have Independents in our caucus who call our candidate a terrorist and there are absolutely no consequences?
Basically if we don’t punish Liberliar then any Dem can go as far off the reservation as he wants too. They can call Obama whatever they like and well make the Republican’s case for them and nothing will ever happen.
Sounds like we are setting ourselves up for failure once again.
Not punishing Lieberman? Craptastic idea Democrats.
You’re horribly, horribly wrong.
As opposed to sabotaging as chairman of the Homeland Security Committee?
I also just now read the other comments. Holy crap, people! I’m simply amazed that so many of us don’t get it. Obama isn’t “ours.” That was never the point. Quite the contrary, in fact. We’re in a dimension now that’s so new, very few actually understand. It’s not us vs. them. This is not the old ball game.
And whatever he does, it absolutely will not be “of, and for the DC elite” as proclaimed in the comments above. I recommend a three-month blog fast for anyone who thinks that way. Chill out! You will not be unhappy…
No, I’m not wrong. :-) I’m happy…
yeah .. as glinzilla says .. “your new dmocratic majority is just like your old democratic majority ”
feckless caitiffs ..
Make the little troll wear a dunce cap and sit in a corner of the Senate.
Obama is and always has been an establishment guy, we all knew that. If he wasn’t he never would have beaten McSain. Feingold wasn’t going to get elected POTUS.
Despite some of the understandable venting going on in this thread, Obama was a far superior choice to McSane on many levels. What it achieved for this nation in terms of one small step towards some ethnic healing was important.
We don’t get to vote on Obama again for four years. This is about fighting the incumbency protection rackets and the 2010 election cycle started last week.
Crack is illegal.
Ok I am not saying that we go all out for retribution.
Take Lieberliar aside and say look, lost of people are calling for your head. Why don’t you switch to a different committee and you get to keep your seat an a good deal of your power.
Start being nice to the new power structure and your little wifey might still be able to get some work in this town.
I am just saying actions should have consequences. Period.
“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.”
Can you tell me what drugs you are on because I would really like to avoid them? I think you are trying to do some Jedi whatever trick on us.
OT Dow is at 8,036.78 we might get below 8,000 today
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=INDEXDJX:.DJI
I wonder if computer sell programs will kick in then or have they already done so. If not Dow is going down big
Or, if Obama is going to go after Bush, does he (Obama) think he’s ensuring Lieberman’s support? Methinks there’s lots, lots more than meets the eye here. Put me in the “let’s just wait and see what happens” camp.
I think your magic eight ball is broken.
I’d like to see the weasel punished, but snatching the gavel back more for pragmatism, IMO. I don’t want 4 years of frivolous, politically motivated investigations into the O admin. And I would like a long delayed inquiry into Katrina.
Sheesh. Why not hang a sign on their backs saying “Yes you can–blackmail me.”
No. Obama is NOT some jedi master. He is serving DC insider interests at the expense of…us. The People who actually ARE the Dem party. Hell, the entire Dem party has LONG loathed the core/base and they are now simply continuing their tried-and-true actions to dis us some more. You can expect this sort of thing for the next 4 years under Obama.
No real investigations of torture, abuse, detention, illegal spying. No fixing (that would be GUTTING) of the Patriot Act. No actual shutdown of Gitmo (merely moving them and “the problem” to a different location: I say it will be Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan. The Iraq war will wind down with resistance by Obama (who wants permanent bases there for “advisors” and whatnot) and the Pentagon - though happily it is well out of their hands now. The momentum is moving IN IRAQ to kick our asses out entirely in 2012. The disaster that is Afghanistan will continue to be a disaster and will continue to bleed the treasury of money it doesn’t have (and never will) and bleed the lives of real Americans (and members of Afghan wedding parties).
The “war on drugs” will continue draining resources and filling jails to no valid end. Domestic spying will continue.
The only good thing in all this is that, haplessly, Obama has inherited a literally bankrupt country. All the empire shit and the evil accoutrements that go with it have already started collapsing of their own weight and while Obama WILL try desperately to hold the line, he will fail because one cannot defeat reality. Bush proved that. There is no “creating our own reality”, there is only dealing with it as it is. Obama inherited the shit end of the stick, thanks to Raygun, Bush, Clinton, and Bush. It’s the only actual part of the stick that is left.
Obama is not even President yet and we have already seen the following:
Cave on the FISA Amendments Act
Cave on the Paulson bailout
Cave on Lieberman
I’m beginning to sense a pattern here.
i believe that has been tried with joe. remember that he lost the primary. he don’t care. the arrogant bastad.
Wow! You have magic powers eh? You can see a huge change in the wind from the same old empire games that have been destroying the country and its representative (not representative anymore, clearly) democracy since WWII.
You really did buy into the meme of “The One”.
G*’@*(^#amned Salazar.
i want him GONE!
I DON’T know what to do about that, everyone here in CO seems to just LOVE him to pieces! I want to be represented in WashDC and he’s not doing that at all, and he never friggin DOES!
I want a CO Senator in WashDC? who’s not, FOR INSTNACE, pro torture.
damn him!
he’s just the pits. he’s on the wrong side of everything of importance and NOW THIS!
Faulty reasoning Joe blames us for taking over his party and spoiling all his dreams of being McCain’s VP.
Joe will run as a third party candidate split the Dem vote and laugh at the DLC and Obama for trusting him the guy is a scorpion he can’t help himself.
Interesting idea. I’ll believe it when I see it.
It looks to me as though the only three members of the caucus up for re-election in 2010 are Boxer, Inouye, and Leahy.
Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas
Barbara Boxer of California
Ken Salazar of Colorado
Delaware Biden’s seat is up in 2010
Daniel Inouye of Hawaii
Illinois (Obama’s seat)
Evan Bayh of Indiana
Barbara Mikulski of Maryland
Harry Reid of Nevada
Chuck Schumer of New York
Byron Dorgan of North Dakota
Ron Wyden of Oregon
Patrick Leahy of Vermont
Patty Murray of Washington
Russ Feingold of Wisconsin
I’m just throwing this together on the fly, I could easily be way off. If we throw Harry in there, we have a little leverage. If all four are confident that we’ll primary them, maybe they’ll reconsider being the buffer for JoeLie?
Keep us informed if anybody looks willing to take him on let us know.
It just seems to me that a lot of us here sound like Republicans (!) or Naderites. There’s also an awful lot of projection going on. Anyone determined to be miserable about Obama really does need to shut down the blog reading and take a long meditative break.
This country has just been given the greatest gift of our lifetimes. I for one am off to tend my own garden and rejoin the human race, after eight nightmare years. What we’ve gone through is a helluva lot bigger than a mere political process. What’s more, trying to define it will only sap one’s energy. ROLL with the momentum, chilluns.
It’s a very brand new day.
Yeah, imho Obama is beginning to look like merely a stop gap President. Keeping the finger in the dike to hold off the deluge that’s looming on the horizon. By and large it will be business as usual, in the spirit of “bipartisanship” of course.
The Dem congress needs to stand up to the president elect now to let him know that they won’t be a “rubber stamp” congress like the repubs were. That’s why we have 3 branches. No one branch should have all the power and all the dictating. Congress needs to stand up now and do what may be impossible for Obama.
Can the senate create a new committee and render useless anything that JoeLie is on?
i must disagree. in the three cases you list, reports were not that obama caved - the reports were that he led and even in some cases twisted arms (see donna edwards) to get what he wanted. which was the opposite of what many of us wanted.
obama is a talented and now very powerful politician. if these reports were correct - imo, he’s not caving. he’s leading.
there is that camp that really believes bygones should be bygones. one other thought is that he needs the time in saddle to tie the rope more firmly around his neck. he may be that israeli mole that the gov’t has been trying to find.
Please don’t drink and post.
Blanche is up in 2010.
Senator Bayh, Holding Lieberman to account for his betrayal of the Democrats, for his neglect of his repsonsbilities as Chair of Homeland Security and for his failure to keep his promises about his campaign behavior IS NOT REVENGE. It is about accountability. It is what Democrats have been crying out for this past eight years. If there is no price to pay for betrayal, for neglect of duty, for lying, then the Senate is nothing but a gang of thugs. Lieberman represents the worst in government and you, Senator Bayh, are sounding more like a Bush crony and corrupt polititian everyday. Since when do loyality, honesty and adherance to duty not matter?
It’s time for bright shiny things from the D’s– look here’s impeachment articles for Bush& cheney. Lame duck
stuff that has a chance to stick–financial fraud , robbery of the US Treasury. Impeach Bush and let the dysfunctional R’s defend him for 2 months. It will the bankrupt nation feel better.
i am as hopeful as you. let’s wait and see before we burn bama.
Its about fear that they will be next. They are calling all there chits in.
i’m on it and have been since the MCA!
i don’t see anything on the horizon but think i’ll get in touch with CO Progressive party, look in on them and see what they’re doing.
i haven’t had time with the elections and all, but THANK YOU! TCU!
hugz
The senate is that committee and will vote on tuesday.
i don’t want to burn anyone. i’m just trying to see and think as clearly as i am capable of (not making any claims about how flawed my best may be)
Since the fix appears to be in, maybe one play is to demand/request that the caucus publish the results of the vote, by name.
Odds on Alaska approach a sure thing- odds in Minnesota are better than fifty-fifty—
Odds on Georgia and pretty slim (but maybe better than a bazillion to one)
Is it just me but does it seem that someone needs a de-programming or are the Dems now in the position to say they create their own reality?
OK has anyone floated this theory?
If dems punish Joe the Tool, would this discourage goopers from reaching across the aisle to work with dems during an Obama administration. IOW, partisan attitudes are never appropriate to Obama?
I still don’t get it, but I’m trying.
Is keeping Joe in the Senate not investigating anything one of the conditions Bush is demanding in exchange for helping Detroit along with a free trade agreement for Columbia?
nothing like watching a slow motion train wreck.
Apologies if I got my facts wrong.
AFAIK, she isn’t a member of the Democratic Caucus?
i love it!
people will always have disagreements about politics - but we ought, i think, be able to agree on political processes that maximize transparency.
thanks for a great suggestion.
Yeah, and we’re all in the observation car.
heck, the man is not even in office. we need to take a couple of deep breaths. i still trust him. he’s a street smart guy.
I said from the beginning that I would vote for Obama- but without enthusiasm. I DID actually send him some money- and became impressed with him in the course of the campaign….For now the proof’s in the pudding and there ain’t no pudding…I’m OK with giving him plenty of rope- including the Lieberweasel issue- if he produces results on health care and energy and helps the economy—we’ll see if he’s clever enough to pull it off.
Now that’s interesting! Hmmm.
Stop the train! I want off!
Your Welcome Siri Hugs back at you also look for scandals we can use then the net can spread the word until the MSM picks up the story.
If you keep harping on a story the MSM sometimes pays attention. We can’t be ADD and mention some story once we have to target a few stories and hammer them sometimes.
Front Pagers as well as Commentors we got Diaries now:)
Exactly!
And Jane is again right on point in how these chummy Dems in the senate have little regard for the base/netroots that has done so much to help them to this place of power. To me, Chris Dodd is the greatest disappointment, because IMHO he’s signaling an effort to help his friend, “tiny” Joe Lieberman, again run in 2012 against Lamont…only this time as a Democrat and all will be forgiven. As if their friendship should be or is the most important issue at hand. Jane and Firedoglake had given Dodd a nice platform on this site, yet it’s now clear he holds the netroots with blatant disgust and disregard.
Also, this notion Bayh kept floating about Joe being disgruntled if he’s not treated fairly was nonsensical. As Maddow noted, why is Lieberman setting the terms here? Just a week or so ago he was claiming to anyone who’d listen, that Obama (the terrorist sympathizer and Socialist) and a Dem majority in Congress would be more dangerous he feared than this country could stand.
Lastly, let me get this straight, Lieberman is angry because he lost a Senate primary to another Dem in Ned Lamont, some of the Dems rallied to the legitimate party winner in Lamont, and Lieberman felt it was appropriate to not only run against the Dem in the general election (despite his pat promises), but then punish the party by palling around with Karl Rove and not doing his job as Chairman of Homeland Security and actively campaigning to make the Dems the minority party in the Senate…in his wildest dreams of course. And now he should be pampered, why???
This anti-logic is making my head hurt similarly to when I debate politics with folks who watch Fox News. The netroots should take serious not of each one of these DINO’s and run candidates against each of them in the years to come. The problem is the Reeps fear their irrational base more than the Dems fear their very rational base.
Exactly.
No accountability for the crimes of the Bush people just like there was no accountability from Clinton for the Reagan/Bush crimes.
The common denominator? Rahm Emanuel. Rahm Doesn’t want to see Joe and Hadassah out in the wilderness with Short Ride forced to serve as a Fox commentator for their daily bread.
Citizen of Israel and collaborator with the enemies of the Democratic Party, Rahm Emanuel, Chief of Staff for the stealth DLC candidate.
And I thought it was Hillary.
not saying you shouldn’t trust him. i don’t, but that doesn’t mean i’m claiming my judgement is any better than yours.
however, it’s mine and i ultimately i have to go with my own judgement (informed, of course by info and views of others).
Obama: Twenty-first Century Cave Man!
OK. Breathing here. But what I’m reading and feeling here is a need for justice. Voting Obama in is a huge part of the change. But still wrongs have not been righted and I’m impatient. I’ll have to work on it.
She’s not on the Democratic Steering and Outreach Committee , but she is a Democrat. Is that what you mean?
yes, sir. that is a healthy scepticism. we got plenty of time to trash the guy.
Senator Joe can stay on as Homeland Security chair if he agrees to open an investigation into US government involvement in the 9/11 attacks.
Bush’s Presidency is at an end he does have to bargain with Obama to avoid jail Hugh’s list alone has tons of impeachable things we can nail Bush on.
Imagine how overworked Hugh would be if the Dems actually did a real investigation.
I think most of us are of the belief that once it is President Obama, then suddenly Senator Short Ride will find all sorts of items that need to be investigated in the public and the subpoenas will be flying.
We might have to raise money to get Hugh staff:)
My cynicism suggests that it was a hedge.
Well, I never imagined that Obama was going to be some liberal messiah, but I am getting a little disappointed too. We need to find ways to create real pressure on Obama using the very same networks that got him elected.
And can we please find a primary candidate for Bayh? As a native Hoosier, I’m begging.
this whole process will be UGLY. the current admin has damaged the us and the world. it’s the public that i don’t trust. this is not a mandate. it’s barely a victory. we don’t have the hearts and minds of the majority of the right. yet.
Salazar is up in 2010
Sorry, it’s a secret ballot.
That would make Holy Joe’s support of Bush look very wrongheaded, are you sure?
BT up with a new twolf graphic. Cant stop laughing.
right. your statement about Bush asking Obama to keep Joe in place was something i had not considered but makes sense. thanks. :]
p.s. I don’t think Hugh will run out of scandals anytime soon.
my guess is that it will all depend on what obama does wrt the economic mess we’re in.
All right, one more:
I don’t give a flying you-know-what if Lieberman keeps his chairmanship. I don’t think any Senate committees, much less Homeland Security, are going to matter one whit in the overall scheme of things. Neither for that matter is Obama. But the election of Obama is a symbol of something much, much greater, something affecting the entire world. Neither Obama nor progressive politics can alter the fact that our way of life is unsustainable, or that a fundamental shift in human consciousness (acquired through random grace or evolutionary pressure) is in the offing.
I’m 63 years old, and I swear to God, it really makes me shake my head to hear people so much younger than I am sounding just like my parents.
Onward, I say….
As you were rollin’ with the jomentum, the folks around here were working their asses off so you can go play in your garden without a care in the world. They aren’t going to quit now. Why don’t you tend to your gardening knowing that we are not done fighting the good fight.
I think Short Ride will be investigating everything he can about the Obama administration so that he can show how “bi-partisan” he is.
He’s already given the Bush Admin a pass.
Don’t do that. Cognitive dissonance can lead you to come to errant conclusions and beliefs to render your past actions and support “acceptable” and “good”. Don’t come to that bogus (even ridiculous and all too common) belief that there is a higher motive here, with masterful puppetmasters in the Democrap party pulling strings here and there to make a wonderful play for, of, and by the People. They aren’t.
They are fumblers, bumblers, and crooks. Period. They do nothing that isn’t first in their own self interests. Second, they don’t do ANYTHING that isn’t in their own self interests. The interests of the country and the “little people” NEVER come into it except in campaign commercials. They are not playing a game that will end up with Lieberliar on their leash. They are fumbling along, trying to shore up their own job security by doing the “one for all and all for one” crap they always do. They feel ENTITLED to their seats, literally thinking they are the House of Lords rather than a merely elected body of OUR representatives with no inherent right to their seats whatsoever.
i’m afraid that is right and it would be the wrong reason at the moment.
Does the coddling of Lieberman have anything to do with the fact that 60 still remains a slim possibility?
No real supporter of Israel would be quiet while Bush gives Saudi Arabia Nuclear Reactors. Supporting Israel is the lie Joe uses to excuse his behavior we must expose the lie.
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/1302
thing is bama has been dealt aces and eights.
We can get moderate GOPers to pass stuff and those worried about reelection more easily than we can get Joe to vote our way on stuff.
it does. but much more complicated than even that.
now there’s another good idea!
So, Joe who led the way in protecting Bushco from scrutiny/investigations in all things FEMA/DHS Katrina related (to name just one heinous coverup)… is just going to turn around and demand all the years of his cover job be investigated?
H*ll no, he isn’t… and Obama’s support of Joe at this point in time… makes Obama a part of the same old problem, not a solution.
Sorry I get it now investigate Obama I thought you meant investigate Bush once Obama was President. You are right Obama keeps short ride at his own peril. Rahm is going to have a lot of explaining to do then he might not keep his job then.
what would like to see the reason be?
The essential problem is there is no reason why the Democrats should trust Joe Lieberman at all. There is a way to keep someone in the caucus who cannot be trusted at all: Have him show up to all the meetings naked. That way everybody knows he isn’t hiding something. Seems perfectly workable to me. Neocon tough guys like those Lieberman likes to hang out with normally want to shoot traitors on the spot. So naked is getting off easy.
Although I would recommend that all caucus meetings be untelevised if my plan is implemented. Obama did promise to end torture.
If the Dems start really investigating it might be necessary.:)
Joe wants to sit on the fence and play both sides. I say its way past time for one of those pointy pickets to skewer him right where the sun don’t shine.Oy vay!
real help for our underclass. increases in education. no wars. respect for all religions. redistribution of wealth, if you like.
And after the meetings what will stop Joe from telling the GOP what we are planning?
How can the Senate Dems trust him he campaigned for John McCain and was second to Sarah in his attacks on Obama.
Forgiveness is nice buy first the person must admitt they did wrong and work to fix the hurt he caused.
I don’t see Joe doing that. Nope protecting his job yes say sorry No.
Me too.
It was a two-horse race that had tremendous implications. Just because Obama isn’t a liberal, doesn’t mean a vote for him wasn’t the right choice.
Now the election is over, however. We won and we move on.
Obama is a pragmatist, he’s going to follow the votes. The better ideas we come up with, the better we organize, the better our strategy and tactics, the more success we will have.
Two weeks ago Sleazerman was saying it would be a disaster if the dems had a veto proof majority now he wants to help it happen - does not compute.
we’re on the same page then. most of that is what i see as part of what we need wrt the economic mess.
Liebermann covered for the Big K fiasco,and McCain covered for GOP payoffs involving Abramoff and the Indian Casinos. One down, and one to go!
Actions speak louder than words Joe votes our way for a year and shuts up then he gets his job back maybe if he convinces us of his sincerity.
i new that :) got to go.
You have hit the nail squarely on the head. Ever hear the saying,if they’ll do it FOR you, they’ll do it TO you? Look for a Palin-Liebermann ticket in the future.
Yes, that was my understanding.
As a strategy however, I thought it made sense for liberals/progressives/greens/netroots to challenge on the transparency of the vote.
I think the majority of Democrats who don’t get JoeLie’s pathology. I thought to them a request for transparency in the vote from liberals/progressives…. might position us better in their minds than other strategies.
ymmv.
That is EXACTLY what Joe is hoping for now.
You know, David Sirota has been warning about Obama for years now both in The Nation and his own column. Sirota interviewed Obama and wrote that Obama would never live up to the hope and promise people seemed to see in Obama. He said Obama simply wanted to be liked and didn’t really stand for any truly progressive policies. In the end Sirota seemed to summarize Obama was/is a DLC type candidate. As for Rahm, David has been warning everyone about him for nearly a decade now. Here’s a link to David’s interview with Obama two years ago.
http://davidsirota.com/index.p.....ashington/
What is comical here is all the talk about expelling Ted Stevens from the Senate because he has a mere 7 felony convictions. If Lieberman’s treatment is any indication, we should give old Ted the Congressional Medal of Honor.
To bad Lieberman couldn’t have investigated the Bush administration malfeasance in the name of the over 1,000 people that lost their lives. To paraphrase Leona Helmsley, I guess Congressional investigations aren’t for the “little people.”
Seconded.
Obama is not an enemy of change. Indeed his support of Lieberman under the circumstances is the furthest thing from politics as usual. I don’t like Lieberman and I signed the petition, but on reflection I’m coming to think Obama is right. Obama and his minions will run Homeland Security, not Lieberman. The question is how do we get from where we are to where we want to go. The first thing we do is break with the past. Set off for a completely different place. Lieberman’s defanged. Everyone knows who and what he is. That’s enough.
Once Edwards left the race, no one was excited about Hillary or Barack from policy perspective. For many of us, Edwards was a poor second choice to Feingold.
It was a two-horse race and despite the electoral margin, it was still damn close. I don’t think many here bought the Obama hype. It’s a fact of a national campaign, they had to leverage it. He was simply a far superior alternative to McCain.
Time will tell what Obama stands for and whether or not he does change things for the better in D.C..
He may not be an enemy of change but he certainly isn’t a vangaurd for change.
there have been times that i did, or wanted to.
I respectfully, disagree. I think the rest of the Senate Democrats are trying to position Lieberman as a firewall for them against the liberal wing of the party. It’s easier for them to vote more conservatively, if he’s a Democrat. They’re counting on him to draw all the heat from liberals.
that’s a great insight, thanks.
There have been a fair number of us who have been well aware of Obama’s lack of commitment to progressive ideas for a long time as well. Most of us here probably supported other candidates, in fact several other candidates before Obama. Most of us too realized that he would be better than McCain. Still after Obama switched and supported the FISA Amendments Act I pulled my support for him. This was only confirmed by his position on the Paulson bailout and I did not vote for him. I have seen nothing so far that shows me that Obama really comprehends the size of the nation’s economic problems or has any real idea about what is needed to solve them. Unless I see something different and I mean a real change in how he does things, he appears set to be a one-term and unsuccessful President.
Defanged? How and where exactly? Name one act by senate Dems (and Obama is still a senator, hello?) which supports your claim, please.
Appreciated your 82.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see how he governs. I think we have a lot to do with that. The Senate Dems are clearly concerned about Hamsher, DKos, and other opinion setters on the left. It’s a great tribute to Jane that they’re going to this much work to insulate themselves.
I think we’re right where we ought to be, sending them the message that “we won’t get fooled again.” That actually makes it easier for all of them to start making decisions that contribute towards long term sustainability.
IMHO, real campaign finance reform is in the back of all their minds. They fear the unknown, such as legislation that limits corporate contributions or ties them to a percentage of what’s received from registered voters.
That’s true. Obama doesn’t get too far ahead of the pack. That doesn’t mean he can’t lead. The man has brass balls. Let’s at least let him get sworn in before we criticize. So far his judgment has been good, way more right than wrong. He’s not perfect, but he will be a huge improvement over what we’ve had.
During the primary a lot of people (like me) who didn’t support Obama were crucified. While it may have been a minority, they were damn vocal!
Everyone knows who Lieberman is. He’s chairman of a committee that doesn’t mean that much. No legislative committee means that much. George Bush taught that lesson. What’s the worse case scenerio? Lieberman investigates Obama in two years? Really doubt that. Lieberman is treacherous but he isn’t stupid.
re campaign finance reform. here in MA we had a voter initiative for clean, publicly financed elections. it was our state legislature (about 80% D) that undermined, prevented it’s implementation and then finally killed it (the last bit with help from mittens). but we’d have it now if it was not for the dems in the state party.
i don’t disagree about campaign finance reform - just want to share our story.
I know, you’re exactly right and that’s why I almost didn’t vote for the man. I feared he was a fraud, though there was a part of me that wanted to see what everyone else was claiming to see in him…not so much for me, though for my five year old son. Now I’m feeling Clinton Redux November, 1992.
Just look who he’s surrounding himself with…they’re almost all former Clinton power brokers with Podesta, Rahm, Rubin, and the names just keep piling up by the hour. No, folks it’s not too early in the process to see where this is going. This election is clearly viewed in D.C. as a DLC mandate.
FYI, Homeland Security is a $50 billion dollar a year budget.
I can see ten billion for New York City, DC, and the sea ports, but we need that cash elsewhere.
Two Atwaters for John at 29 and 37.
Facts absolutely prove this to be wrong to a dangerous fault.
Don’t you remember how Lieberman screwed Clinton (and the country) by siding with the Republicans during impeachment?
Don’t you remember Bush/ Gore and Lieberman’s soft resignation in the FL fight?
Don’t you remember the way Lieberman treated CT Dems, Senator Dodd and Ned Lamont in ‘06.
The list is very very long.
Now tell me the last time Lieberman gave one republican, federalist nominee, or individual piece of legislation a hard time?
Much appreciated.
I’m in WI and state Dems just regained control of both houses of the legislature. The entire country turned pretty red over the last eight years.
Yeah, and Claudius was an improvement from Caligula but he wasn’t able to restore the Republic and initiate the necessary reforms to save an an ossified society obsessed with bread and circus.
Another Atwater at 60! May be a record in the making…
i have a feeling that some of the different levels of skepticism people have had for obama may be influenced by local experiences. those of us who’ve been screwed over multiple times by our local dems are less likely to want to give a national dem much of a benefit of the doubt. but i might see things quite differently if i lived in a red state and had only seen such bad acts by republicans.
don’t know, just a thought.
Excellent point, as per usual. A poll in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel is running 70% AGAINST helping the big 2.5 in Detroit. A lot of Milwaukee/WI industries support Detroit. It’s amazing, because those jobs are headed to Alabama, if nothing is done.
OT, Milwaukee has a neocon/GOP County Executive, Walker, who cuts his own budget by cutting staff from the people who distribute food stamps. He’s getting sued by well educated people who his administration illegally cut off food stamps. I applaud the Democratic governor, Doyle, for cutting off a $2.3 million dollar job program to Milwaukee County, as a way to force Walker, to let people have access to food stamps. State denies Milwaukee County jobs program contract
thanks. it’s interesting, and imo useful, to hear the local stories.
damn - food stamps? that’s just evil.
The career of the oleaginous senator from Connecticut reminds me more and more of the bottomless jar of lamp oil in the story of Hanukah. Except in this case it isn’t God doing the replenishing but Democratic leaders who couldn’t give a shit about the progressive base.
I saw Bayh on Maddow. Sickening, but perhaps useful.
We should go back to Evan Bayh and ask him, what if Lieberman refuses to apologize because he thinks he’s done nothing wrong? Would you place an unrepentant Obama-basher in a position where he can do damage to the Obama administration? If so, how do you justify this?
Refusal by Lieberman to apologize might be a lever to force the moderates to turn against him, if we keep the heat on. And we must close off the option of a non-apology apology (as in “I regret that some people might have been offended by their interpretation of what they think I said”).
You are right, but the Fla soft resignation was more Gore than Lieberman. I thought Gore’s choice of Lieberman meant he didn’t want to get elected. Lieberman was oh so pious about Clinton, but in the end Clinton didn’t get impeached. May not have been Lieberman’s fault, but it wasn’t entirely up to him. Not much is entirely up to him. Lieberman also was elected by Republicans last time. Too bad, but nothing can be done about it. He’s sleaze, but he’s got four more years. He can rail about this or that, but as the numbers stack up, he can’t do real harm.
Wish i got here sooner and was able to calm the anxious - Read DRIFTGLASS!! he will explain it the Chicago way.